Hi all,
I received an email recently to participate in an Android App by giving permission for my photos to be used at no charge. I was wondering what others had thought of this that received this email request?
Personally, I usually don't mind letting "not for profits" use my photos but anytime the person/company using my photos is making a profit off of my photos I feel that I should get a cut of that profit. In this case, this App will have a free and pay version.
It does sound pretty neat and I look forward to checking out the free version when it hits the marketplace but I don't think I will be participating at the moment.
Thoughts?
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
I had the same one......... I would suspect lots people would've got the same one.
Mine went to the recycle bin.
Gary
Mine went to the recycle bin.
Gary
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
I saw no problem with the request as the app merely links or provides a link to shots on a.net. I see it as no different to a user manually using a search engine to find a picture.
I find it odd that a crew member would simply bin the message when a.net's own contact photographer template includes this: "To uphold the good reputation of the photographer community, please try to reply to photo usage requests".
I find it odd that a crew member would simply bin the message when a.net's own contact photographer template includes this: "To uphold the good reputation of the photographer community, please try to reply to photo usage requests".
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting Jez (Reply 2): I saw no problem with the request as the app merely links or provides a link to shots on a.net. |
So, Jez, you're fine with a company making big bucks from what basically has your photos as its only visual attraction?! Well, each to their own but mine also went in the bin!!!!!!!
Spence
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting spencer (Reply 3): So, Jez, you're fine with a company making big bucks from what basically has your photos as its only visual attraction?! Well, each to their own but mine also went in the bin!!!!!!! Spence |
If you are going to look at it like that, the same thing could be applied to any search engine, which is basically used to find other people's work. Google are quite good at making big bucks. Object to people using Google to find your images? If so, then maybe it's best to refrain from using the internet.
Some can be so very precious about their 'work'.
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting Jez (Reply 2): I find it odd that a crew member would simply bin the message when a.net's own contact photographer template includes this: "To uphold the good reputation of the photographer community, please try to reply to photo usage requests". |
Thanks for your valued input, but I if decided not to reply to what I feel is a mass email request that is my decision, I always reply to personal emails and will continue to do so. As it turns out, my first suspisions are correct, this is a mass email.
Spencer has hit the nail on the head............
Dear sirs, we want to use your images for free, We will charge others for the app and make us money.
Without the images from us they don't have a product.Sorry but no. If the company wanted to give me a fee for the use of all my images then great, but they want them all for free.
Gary
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Well it creates no extra burden on me. The app merely links to the already publicly available low-res images here on a.net and that is all I (and I'm guessing the multitude of others) have given permission for. If it leads to more people looking at my shots and possibly a request to publish an image (for money) then great.
People are already using images here for free by viewing them. The whole model for this website is based on people giving away their images for free! It's no different in my eyes. Some people need to wake up.
People are already using images here for free by viewing them. The whole model for this website is based on people giving away their images for free! It's no different in my eyes. Some people need to wake up.
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting Jez (Reply 6): The whole model for this website is based on people giving away their images for free! |
I would have to argue with your choice of words here Jez. I have never thought for one moment I am 'giving away' my images for free by allowing A.net to host them. Sure, people can 'look at them' without paying, but if they want to do anything with them at all then they should ask me, because I own them. Certainly if they intend to make money as an indirect consequence of my photography then I need to work out whether the trade in return makes it a worthwhile transaction.
I got this email too. The offer to me was the app for free, which isn't much use as I don't have a modern enough mobile - I guess the app would be peanuts to buy anyhow. That is why many will not respond positively - not a 'fair' transaction as far as many are concerned. But at least he asked.
Paul
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting Psych (Reply 7): Certainly if they intend to make money as an indirect consequence of my photography then I need to work out whether the trade in return makes it a worthwhile transaction. |
I'm sure the ultimate intention of DM/a.net is to indirectly make money out of your images that you have given away for free by hosting them. No doubt that's why it's owned by a commercial concern or do you think it's run on a purely philanthropic basis? I assume that all uploaders are aware of this and have accepted the trade-off.
If this app makes it easier for people to find my images already on a.net then that's good surely? Maybe, I'm just a glass half full sort of chap.
[Edited 2012-01-15 09:18:08]
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Got the same message and think it's OK if they only link the pics (like they wrote). Having the app for free is good and at least a few more hits on my pictures are nice too.
In the last mail they wrote to all the photogs who gave permission. Unfortunately they had all email addresses listed (very unprofessional), and now I know that also some of the "Big Players" on Anet gave their permission for the picture link which supports my own decision to say yes.
Also doubt that they make lot's of money with this app.
Even when I think the same as you about the typical mass-requests I think that when contacting all Photogs with more than 1000 pics on Anet one can't expect a personal email to each of the hundreds (maybe more than thousand) of Photographers here
https://www.airliners.net/about/photographers.main
georg
In the last mail they wrote to all the photogs who gave permission. Unfortunately they had all email addresses listed (very unprofessional), and now I know that also some of the "Big Players" on Anet gave their permission for the picture link which supports my own decision to say yes.
Also doubt that they make lot's of money with this app.
| Quoting Garyck (Reply 5): Thanks for your valued input, but I if decided not to reply to what I feel is a mass email request that is my decision, I always reply to personal emails and will continue to do so. As it turns out, my first suspisions are correct, this is a mass email. |
Even when I think the same as you about the typical mass-requests I think that when contacting all Photogs with more than 1000 pics on Anet one can't expect a personal email to each of the hundreds (maybe more than thousand) of Photographers here
https://www.airliners.net/about/photographers.main
georg
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Well I said yes. Can't see what harm it would do and it may do a lot of good. As a Nokia user a free Android app isn't much use to me though.
-
- unattendedbag
- Posts: 2199
- Joined:
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Unfortunately, THIS website hasn't picked up the ball and created some sort of cell phone app that could be sold to customers, Heavens knows, there is no money in THAT!
Would we say "no" if it had been an airliners.net paid app? Would we have even been asked? Would there have been a problem with that? I'm sitting at just under 1,000 photos, so I didn't get the email, but I might've said "yes" had I received it.
[Edited 2012-01-15 14:52:42]
Would we say "no" if it had been an airliners.net paid app? Would we have even been asked? Would there have been a problem with that? I'm sitting at just under 1,000 photos, so I didn't get the email, but I might've said "yes" had I received it.
[Edited 2012-01-15 14:52:42]
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting Jez (Reply 8): I'm sure the ultimate intention of DM/a.net is to indirectly make money out of your images that you have given away for free by hosting them. |
You make a fair point Jez. As regards the 'A.net transaction', I guess for me the 'deal' is that my photos are given exposure on a world leading aviation photography website. As has been said, the app may also draw people's attention to your photos, and I can see why some may consider that a fair deal too.
Paul
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting Garyck (Reply 5): Dear sirs, we want to use your images for free, We will charge others for the app and make us money. |
Actually they do offer something - a free application. It is not entirely 'something for nothing.'
| Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 11): Unfortunately, THIS website hasn't picked up the ball and created some sort of cell phone app that could be sold to customers, Heavens knows, there is no money in THAT! |
Well THIS website won't even make arrangements to re-introduce prints for sale which might have allowed photographers make a little bit of money; maybe at least it would pay for me getting first class membership.
But all they do is feeding us promises. 'The deal is being negotiated and is nearly finalised'. And so since several years.
And it is THIS website that makes big bucks by using our images for free; otherwise Demand Media would have never bought it.
What do we get out of it? That's right - exposure.
These guys offer pretty much the same - exposure. Plus they offer a free app.
I thought it was fair, and I said yes.
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Well, I was interested in working with this guy and told him I may volunteer to be a part of his free app but if he wanted to charge people and make money off of my photos then I would also prefer some sort of compensation. The reply I received made me happy that I declined.
"No problem, I will blacklist you then. Sorry I cant pay 150 contributors a fee even if I know if there will be any revenue from this free-time project.
Thanks anyway."
I am not sure what I have been "blacklisted" from but this seems very unprofessional to me and I am glad to not be a part of this.
As for the discussion above about it being the same thing as uploading to a.net. I am not giving my photos to a.net, they are still my photos, I just get exposure from the site here which I am very happy with as it is the No1 aviation photography site. When this app thing can provide me with enough exposure to substitute compensation then I will be interested, until then I will need compensation but apparently it is a moot point though as I have been "blacklisted" so it seems that I will just have to be happy with what a.net provides me.
"No problem, I will blacklist you then. Sorry I cant pay 150 contributors a fee even if I know if there will be any revenue from this free-time project.
Thanks anyway."
I am not sure what I have been "blacklisted" from but this seems very unprofessional to me and I am glad to not be a part of this.
As for the discussion above about it being the same thing as uploading to a.net. I am not giving my photos to a.net, they are still my photos, I just get exposure from the site here which I am very happy with as it is the No1 aviation photography site. When this app thing can provide me with enough exposure to substitute compensation then I will be interested, until then I will need compensation but apparently it is a moot point though as I have been "blacklisted" so it seems that I will just have to be happy with what a.net provides me.
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 11): Unfortunately, THIS website hasn't picked up the ball and created some sort of cell phone app that could be sold to customers, Heavens knows, there is no money in THAT! |
Of course, it's entirely possible that a.net/DM have 'arranged' something with the developer or whole idea is a joint venture? Who knows.
| Quoting Garyck (Reply 5): Dear sirs, we want to use your images for free, We will charge others for the app and make us money. Without the images from us they don't have a product.Sorry but no. If the company wanted to give me a fee for the use of all my images then great, but they want them all for free. |
You've also unwittingly described some a.net attributes quite well. The irony of a screener and I'm guessing also an uploader deriding an individual or a company for attempting to make a few pennies from what some may consider is other people's hard work is comical.
Slightly off-topic, but when you think about it you realise what a perverse dynamic the whole a.net thing is. They get photographers to jump through hoops to give away their images for free, thereby maintaining a high quality resource pool. They employ unpaid volunteers (screeners) to maintain the quality and to cap it off, they can even get some people to pay to be a member. There seems to be an almost bizarre Stockholm Syndrome going on. It's genius. I wish I'd have thought of it!
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Got the same email. I declined the offer ... I am NOT giving away my shots in exchange to get a app for free. Sorry, but this offer is ridicilous ...
But I am pretty sure a lot of people took the offer ...
But I am pretty sure a lot of people took the offer ...
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting Jez (Reply 15): Of course, it's entirely possible that a.net/DM have 'arranged' something with the developer or whole idea is a joint venture? Who knows. |
Nope, not the case. We got a email where it said they (assuming it's the same person) wanted to use the thumbnails for their app, to which we replied that it was outside the TOU. Linking to images is OK, hosting in an app is not. In this case we replied that they needed to contact each photographer individually, and apparently they have. It's then up to you to deny or approve use of the images they ask for.
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Jez, I agree on pretty much everything you said, but in this instance I feel the so called trade off doesn't benefit me as much as it does him. On another note, I suppose you could compare (it) with the a.net model to a degree and the reason I choose to upload here (for free if you like) is that uploading has become a massive part of our hobby now. I choose to be a part of what websites like this have to offer as it creates friends, respect to a certain degree and the odd sale.
I could've just said yes to that guy but it goes against everything I stand for, with respect to giving away images and keeping the sales prices at a low, which is not good in the long run.
Add to the fact I already run Radar24 and Planefinder on my iPhone I didn't feel this would provide anything I feel I'm missing right now.
Spence
I could've just said yes to that guy but it goes against everything I stand for, with respect to giving away images and keeping the sales prices at a low, which is not good in the long run.
Add to the fact I already run Radar24 and Planefinder on my iPhone I didn't feel this would provide anything I feel I'm missing right now.
Spence
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting spencer (Reply 18): Jez, I agree on pretty much everything you said, but in this instance I feel the so called trade off doesn't benefit me as much as it does him. |
That fair enough Spence. I can understand that.
I wasn't trying to change people's minds; I'm simply trying to point out some hypocrisies and inconsistencies to counter some of the more hysterical arguments about others making millions out of their images.
[Edited 2012-01-16 04:13:42]
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Again, I would like to point out that we as photographers are not giving our images to a.net. They are hosting the image online and at any time we can have them all removed. The exposure that a.net is able to provide is worth the trade-off to me. Without a.net I would not get anywhere close to the amount of photo sales I have made. Conversely I am sure my 3 or 4 million page views has brought them a fair amount of advertising dollars too.
In the end, it is worth it and more importantly it is fun for me. A.net is unique though and I don't see that relationship occurring anywhere else, especially with a start-up website or app.
In the end, it is worth it and more importantly it is fun for me. A.net is unique though and I don't see that relationship occurring anywhere else, especially with a start-up website or app.
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Then what about this one then? Is this different?
http://www.aerotransport.org/
Exactly the same thing: links to our A.net photos, without asking permission as far as I know. They make money too, it's a pay-site (you can subscribe).
E
http://www.aerotransport.org/
Exactly the same thing: links to our A.net photos, without asking permission as far as I know. They make money too, it's a pay-site (you can subscribe).
E
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Eduard are you opening that can of worms up again!! remember the discussions we had last time, a few years ago, re that site?! I think a few people left because of it in the end iirc...
Spence
remember the discussions we had last time, a few years ago, re that site?! I think a few people left because of it in the end iirc...
Spence
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
| Quoting spencer (Reply 23): |
Well... My question still is: how is it different from the app? Someone links to your pics from somewhere else. And he makes money (he hopes) from his app development. But technically he doesn't touch your photo. Seems kind of the same thing. I remember the big hoohah a few years ago, but we seem to accept aerotransport.org now. Why would this app be different?
Just wondering. I got that mail too, haven't replied yet though.
RE: Request To Be In Android App For 1000+ Club
Update from SkySpy:
"So it took HOURS to email to approx 250 people out there. We received 10 mails "return to sender" from the postmaster, 17 definite denials to use the photos and 147 okays
PS: We had some late arrivals. Now the team has 167 photographers of airliners.net and a rough estimate gives >300.000 photos accessible. Thanks again."
[Edited 2012-01-17 19:46:18]
"So it took HOURS to email to approx 250 people out there. We received 10 mails "return to sender" from the postmaster, 17 definite denials to use the photos and 147 okays
PS: We had some late arrivals. Now the team has 167 photographers of airliners.net and a rough estimate gives >300.000 photos accessible. Thanks again."
[Edited 2012-01-17 19:46:18]
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests