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GulfstreamGuy
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Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:22 pm

Hi everyone,

This is a curiosity question. I really enjoy this site and I've been a member for a very long time. I have submitted A LOT of photos in the past and been rejected for nearly 97% of them and that's fine, but my question is this: Why are there so many photos on here that look like (and I've looked closely at each one of them) they are identical? I mean, the same aircraft was apparently shot on the same day, same time, same location, same framing, and really they are so identical, it appears that the photographers were joined at the hip. Also, I am NOT talking about photos that were posted in the late '90s. I'm talking about RECENT photos. Is there any screening that can prevent this from happening?

I am not trying to take away from the awesomeness from the photo itself, (it was so good, it was accepted twice!) or the photographers, I was just curious because I know first hand, I'm sure there are so many photos that get rejected for the tiniest detail but two identical photos from two different shooters can get accepted. I see no problems seeing a photo of a plane taxiing by the photographer and then another shot at the same time but maybe a lot further away down the line (for a different angle). It's just me and I'm sure some may get upset by this but, hey, that's why we ask questions, right?

The screeners can't have a "Rejection Reason: Identical To Photo Already Submitted"?

Like I said.. just curious.

Thanks!
Jason W. Hamm
"GulfstreamGuy"
"If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane. " -Jimmy Buffett
 
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scbriml
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:51 pm

I think this should be in the Aviation Photography forum.

Why should I have a photo rejected because another photographer has a nearly identical shot? Many photographers shoot together from the same spots, so it's not surprising their shots look similar.


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vposbic
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:42 pm

This will be a common for significant events, like airshows, or for a more specific example, when the Shuttles were being retired and flown to their final homes. I remember I had to double check accepted photos of Discovery on approach to IAD to verify which one was mine.

https://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?album=28825

[Edited 2014-01-23 06:44:01]
-Vincent
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:01 pm

Quoting GulfstreamGuy (Thread starter):
The screeners can't have a "Rejection Reason: Identical To Photo Already Submitted"?

No. Only for shots taken by the same photographer at the same time, same place, etc., in which case the "Double" rejection would apply.

I see absolutely no benefit in limiting shots from one occasion to whoever the first photographer to upload is. I mean, think about an airshow - 100,000 people, many photographers, tons of very similar photos....and a huge race home to see who can edit and upload the one allowed shot of, say, the Blue Angels diamond formation.

It would be a great way to drive photographers away from the site.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Psych
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:04 pm

Jason.

Your question points at the dual role of the site: to provide a 'database' for aviation images, and also to host photographers' portfolios. Speaking for myself, I use the site not as a database, but as an aviation photography site.

If I'm using it as a database, looking for photos of a particular aircraft with a particular registration, the your point might have some merit. But not so if you use the site to look at photographers' images.

As has been said, as a contributing photographer I'm not concerned to keep track of other people's photos; just my own. That's why it is reasonable to have a double rule that prevents me having effectively the same image of the same plane twice (though that can be mighty frustrating when the lighting is very different, or if quality is improved - but that's another story). But it would be outrageous to have a photo rejected just because someone lives close to the venue, got home immediately, got their photo edited and in the queue whilst I'm still out and about. What if mine was a lot better in some way? Screeners have a hard enough job - by your proposal they'd be eaten for breakfast by the photographer community.

Much better to have multiple images, within the rules, and allow the viewer to decide which one s/he wishes to open up.

Paul
 
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NZ107
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting GulfstreamGuy (Thread starter):
I mean, the same aircraft was apparently shot on the same day, same time, same location, same framing, and really they are so identical, it appears that the photographers were joined at the hip

We're not all loners here   It's not uncommon to go on photography trips with friends or meet up at airports. There's nothing wrong with the same (or at least very similar) shots being taken by a different photographer.

Reasons are explained above - there's still a little bit of scope for your own editing, as shown in the first reply.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
megatop412
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:36 am

All those explanations are well and good, but they don't address the main point the OP is making(and one which I have made before)- despite the 'portfolio' argument, there is little actual value to having multiple shots of the same aircraft, in the same position and angle, at the same time, regardless of whether they were taken by one person or several people. Unless you are concerned with having bragging rights, of course. It reminds me of when I see one person uploading what looks like every shot they took of a specific event to a photo-sharing site; it looks ridiculous.

And, there are plenty of folks who are hyer-competitive with editing and uploading as quickly as possible, so I don't see how limiting it would make this any worse.
 
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kiffy
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:30 am

Here's a thread posted a while back with pictorial examples:

Double Upload Or Your Buddy Standing Next To You! (by Jid Dec 4 2010 in Aviation Photography)

It's interesting to see the different edits done on each shot.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:45 am

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 6):
All those explanations are well and good, but they don't address the main point the OP is making(and one which I have made before)- despite the 'portfolio' argument, there is little actual value to having multiple shots of the same aircraft, in the same position and angle, at the same time, regardless of whether they were taken by one person or several people.

Little value to the site perhaps; but possibly value to the individual photographer.

But again, what benefit would it possibly serve the site to limit shots among different photographers?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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NZ107
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:06 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 8):

But again, what benefit would it possibly serve the site to limit shots among different photographers?

And also what a hassle it'd be for the screeners!
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
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geocan
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:20 am

Same aircraft, same place, same time, different photographer is not really a problem. Or should not be for anyone. That is within the rules. On the example Steve brought up at reply 1, the angle at which the aircraft was taken was sufficiently different anyway.
On the other hand what is a concern is how much the colour of the two photos differ considering they were taken a matter of seconds apart. They cannot both be correct. One definitely has a colour cast problem. Perhaps one for the screeners to explain.
 
GulfstreamGuy
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:24 am

Quoting kiffy (Reply 7):
Here's a thread posted a while back with pictorial examples:

WOW!! That is EXACTLY what I was talking about!! I just didn't know there were THAT many "identical" shots on here!
Sorry I never noticed that post from you before!

jason
"If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane. " -Jimmy Buffett
 
Psych
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:24 am

Hello Jason.

Did you see Reply 13 from me in the thread linked above from a few years back? Twelve examples of the same TU-144 landing at Manchester at the same time. There may even be more uploaded since then for all I know from that morning. There were loads of photographers out that day due to a number of 'rare' examples flying in to Manchester due to a football match taking place.

As a photographer who uses A.net as the primary 'window' to display his aviation photography to the watching world, don't you agree it would be unfair if I was not able to have a Russian TU-144 in my portfolio just because some other people were there too? I think it is the only one I have ever photographed. It's quite possible I will never take a photo again of a landing TU-144, given that I don't travel a lot. It would be a crazy rule to prevent me having such an image in my personal portfolio - so long as it meets the crietria for the site.

If you use the site purely as a database - e.g. you are wanting to find a photo of that particular aircraft for use in some promotion; or you are looking to find a photo of a Russian aircraft landing at sunny Manchester - then you can look through the various options and go for the one that you think is best. You have a choice - that can't be a bad thing either. And, as George hints at above, you can then go for the one with - in your opinion - the most accurately rendered colour, rather than being limited to one example that may have what you consider to be a cast, but was the accepted one first past the post.

Cheers.

Paul
 
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scbriml
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:11 pm

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 6):
All those explanations are well and good, but they don't address the main point the OP is making(and one which I have made before)- despite the 'portfolio' argument, there is little actual value to having multiple shots of the same aircraft, in the same position and angle, at the same time, regardless of whether they were taken by one person or several people.

So you seem to be suggesting that the screeners would not only have to screen my shot, but having (hopefully) decided it's good enough to be accepted, compare it with every other shot of the same plane in case it's similar?   

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 9):
And also what a hassle it'd be for the screeners!

Exactly!   

Quoting Psych (Reply 12):
As a photographer who uses A.net as the primary 'window' to display his aviation photography to the watching world, don't you agree it would be unfair if I was not able to have a Russian TU-144 in my portfolio just because some other people were there too?

Aside from the screening issue (it would just be one other thing for the photographers to moan about, getting 'similar' rejections!) it would be particularly harsh on photographers.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting GulfstreamGuy (Thread starter):
Is there any screening that can prevent this from happening?

Ask yourself one question. If Air Force 1 came into Little Rock and you were there to photograph it with a buddy or someone you didn't even know, and you both got access to the airfield to photograph the touchdown, would you be at all sad if your buddy/shooting partner was able to process it and get it accepted before you? Say your favorite shot was of the plane smoking the tires and it was by far the photo you wanted to share. Let's take it a step further and say that all your other photos were blurry. Would you not want your photo to have as much chance of being seen and accepted as the "other guy's" photo, even if they were similar?
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NZ107
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:28 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 14):

Then rivalry will exist in this hobby to a far greater extent than it does now.. People would begin to take their computers and their internet devices to the airport to upload things immediately after they're shot. You're definitely not going to win any friends.. And A.Net will probably nosedive and never be heard of again!
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:25 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 15):

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 14):

Then rivalry will exist in this hobby to a far greater extent than it does now.. People would begin to take their computers and their internet devices to the airport to upload things immediately after they're shot. You're definitely not going to win any friends.. And A.Net will probably nosedive and never be heard of again!

My favorite aspect of this hobby is the social aspect of hanging out with like-minded individuals. Enforce that rule and no one will want to meet each other, and there will be vicious rivalries as everyone races to get "the" shot for Anet. Forget about getting heads up on rare aircraft visits.

Yeah, no thanks.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Newark727
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:32 am

It seems there'd be no way to really address this without making arbitrary decisions that have nothing to do with the photos or photographers themselves. In addition, some photo spots will generate a lot of uploads for simple qualitative superiority - some airports are simply easier to get a clear view at, or can only get a clear view at a specific area or time, and falling outside of that makes it much harder to edit an acceptable photo. Here's my brush with the repeat phenomenon:

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G-CIVP
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:36 am

If you are really bored and have nothing to do, search the db for PT-MUC on the 29 December 2008 at LHR!
 
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NZ107
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:04 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 16):

My favorite aspect of this hobby is the social aspect of hanging out with like-minded individuals. Enforce that rule and no one will want to meet each other, and there will be vicious rivalries as everyone races to get "the" shot for Anet. Forget about getting heads up on rare aircraft visits.

Exactly. That's also my favourite. Meeting people from around the world at different locations is what keeps it interesting.


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GulfstreamGuy
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RE: Two Identical Photos, Two Different Photographers

Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:35 am

I totally agree with using this site as your place of choice for displaying your work. Heck, if my photos were better, I would too!

I guess that's the best way to look at it. A portfolio of one's work.

I appreciate all the responses!

Jason
"If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane. " -Jimmy Buffett

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