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sausten
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A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:36 am

Hi all,

As the title suggests, the purpose of this thread is to gain a better understanding of the centring rule.

I recently had this one rejected for 'badpersonal centered soft' on appeal.
https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...94269149.8012sausten21121280d2.jpg

What has added to my curisoity was the ''Asses on the beach' thread...
Asses On The Beach   (by ivandalavia Mar 1 2014 in Aviation Photography)
.. where it was agreed that the photo in question captured the 'scene' of the airport. With that in mind, I feel my shot captures the 'scene' of SYD, where departing aircraft lift off over (in front of) aircraft parked for the day. There is one difference though.

In my shot the objects in the lower part of the frame (the parked aircraft) are in the background, whereas in other examples the lower objects are in the foreground. Could that be the reason why the crop doesn't work?

But what about shots like this...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steven Austen



Why does this work? Is it due to the orientation of the shot?

I'm not interested in disputing the rejection, just hoping to gain a little understanding of why this centreing is 'badpersonal' and why similar centered shots are OK.

Thanks for the feedback

Steve
 
vikkyvik
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:14 am

Quoting sausten (Thread starter):
I'm not interested in disputing the rejection, just hoping to gain a little understanding of why this centreing is 'badpersonal' and why similar centered shots are OK.

To be completely honest, I'm not exactly sure why. While your shot doesn't quite work for me, I could see it being accepted. I think it may have worked better if you cropped wider, and kept the whole VS 346 and maybe Garuda in the frame. The lightpoles are also kind of distracting.

You'll find a heck of a lot of my photos have this centering in this location:


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Photo © Vik S



More apropos to your shot would be something like this:


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Photo © Vik S



...deliberately centered low to include the terminals up above. Oh, this is the one I was trying to find:


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Vik S



I honestly didn't think that one would get accepted - the powerlines across the AA 763 really detract in my opinion.

OK, after thinking about it more, I think I've realized that I don't like shots that are slightly off-center. They feel slightly wrong to me (another reason why I don't particularly like my Tahiti Nui shot). Whether true or not, it sometimes feels like I just missed my "proper" centering.

(sorry about the self-plugs)
 
dendrobatid
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:25 am

We have always accepted images where the subject is off-centre where there is a good reason for doing so and all of Vik's there are good examples. Steve's 380 shot does not actually work anything like as well to me actually. There is very little foreground interest IMHO and a landscape crop would have worked better with the bottom right edge of the water/grass running out of the bottom right corner. (Steve try it an share it and see if I am right perhaps?)
However, it was accepted so someone disagrees with me which also demonstrates that it is not an exact science - if it feels right it should be okay.

What we Screeners regularly encounter is people ignoring a fin in considering the centre and this often results in a fin almost touching the top of the frame, sometimes cropped even, with nothing but concrete/grass/tarmac in the whole of the bottom half of the frame.

When we first get a batch of images to screen we see a thumbnail which we then click to see the full sized image. As the images load, I always scan the thumbs and that gives an excellent 'feel' for the centre. Another way is to imagine a line across the centre of the frame and the WHOLE COMPOSITION should balance around that line. When editing, if I am struggling to centre well, I zoom down to a small image to make sure I am getting it right.

I don't think Steves 380 passes that test at all well but if there was a balance in the bottom, a boat or something it would and the SXM shots usually show that to good effect. But would an empty beach work as well ?
Probably not ! Apply either of my ways to Vik's however and they all work though the Tahiti Nui shows that an even tighter crop at the top would have worked better.

Open any page at random in the database and just scan the thumbs with a view to checking the centre, looking at them as a Screener would, and you will see what I mean - and probably some where we were rather lenient too. We are not looking for precision in centre, just for them to be about right and, importantly, for them to work the way they are centred or cropped.

Mick Bajcar
 
Psych
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:34 am

I don't disagree with anything you have said above, Mick. I would also have shaved a bit of the sky off Vik's Tahiti photo.

But that just brings Vik's shot more into line with Steve's Austral 777 rejection. For me that centering works okay and I'd therefore disagree with the ultimate decision not to give him the benefit of the doubt there. More sky above the plane - which presumably the centre rejection implies would be necessary - would just be 'dead'.

Paul

P.S. I'd advocate an automatic rejection for those shots with the tail tip almost touching the top of frame or (worse) being cropped, simply to centre the nose/fuselage of the aircraft! Whether your argument is 'house style' or photographic aesthetics, they just never work to my eye.
 
dendrobatid
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:28 am

Paul
I make no copmment about the soft aspect of Steve's as I am currently on my laptop but I agree that the motive and centre would have been acceptable to me - it fits well with what I said above (though I did not actually look at it util I have written and sent my message, only the 380.

I also agree about the cropped fins which to my eye are often merely a fashion but often poorly executed and simply poor composition.

This discussion actually seems to be taking a path of a thread a few years ago where I used some of yours as examples of doing it right ! I am going to ask that this thread be moved to the main photography forum for wider airing

Mick
 
mjgbtv
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:09 pm

Going along with Mick's comments regarding the balance, I think the composition would work better if everything was moved higher in the frame (although I would have said the same about Vik's last example as well)
 
vikkyvik
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting Psych (Reply 3):
I don't disagree with anything you have said above, Mick. I would also have shaved a bit of the sky off Vik's Tahiti photo.

But that just brings Vik's shot more into line with Steve's Austral 777 rejection.

  

That's pretty much what I was getting at, but didn't say (sorry, it was late).
 
Psych
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:32 pm

I have often heard Mick describing his technique for using the thumbnail to get an assessment of correct centring. I often find it helps too.

I have developed a somewhat idiosyncratic technique myself, to the amusement of my wife and daughter, who have occasionally spotted me doing it when editing at the computer. It is to squint when looking at the image (scrunching up my eyes, as you might say round these parts), so that you can hardly see the image. But you do see the basic structure of the photo, and it makes seeing the relative position of the subject easier. It's certainly a tried and tested method in this household.

Using that 'squinting' strategy, Steve's 777 photo still passes the test and the photo looks pretty balanced at that aspect ratio. I don't know why it was rejected for that.

Paul
 
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ThierryD
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting sausten (Thread starter):
In my shot the objects in the lower part of the frame (the parked aircraft) are in the background, whereas in other examples the lower objects are in the foreground. Could that be the reason why the crop doesn't work?

Steven, including the whole Virgin aircraft would look a lot better. If that's not possible, cropping a bit closer on the lower frame would help.

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 2):
sometimes cropped even, with nothing but concrete/grass/tarmac in the whole of the bottom half of the frame.

This is just purely sloppy editing and poor composition; never understood why these shots get accepted.

Thierry
 
Chukcha
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting thierryd (Reply 8):
If that's not possible, cropping a bit closer on the lower frame would help.

  

At the very least, I personally would remove some 20 pixels of empty tarmac at the bottom and maybe add the same 20 pixels of sky at the top.

Andrei

[Edited 2014-03-23 18:46:30]
 
sausten
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:45 am

Thanks for the input guys. It's good to dissect (as much as we can) what works and why.

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 2):
Steve's 380 shot does not actually work anything like as well to me actually. There is very little foreground interest IMHO and a landscape crop would have worked better with the bottom right edge of the water/grass running out of the bottom right corner.

I've had a lot of success with that crop.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Steven Austen


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Photo © Steven Austen


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Photo © Steven Austen


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Steven Austen


I actually tried a landscape crop of a similar shot, with the aircraft higher in the frame and the cranes and trees visible below... it got rejected for 'centered' . I will admit though, I was pushing it with that one.

Quoting Psych (Reply 7):
I have often heard Mick describing his technique for using the thumbnail to get an assessment of correct centring. I often find it helps too.

Yeah I find it helps too.

Quoting mjgbtv (Reply 5):
Going along with Mick's comments regarding the balance, I think the composition would work better if everything was moved higher in the frame
Quoting Chukcha (Reply 9):
At the very least, I personally would remove some 20 pixels of empty tarmac at the bottom and maybe add the same 20 pixels of sky at the top.

Am I missing something or are these suggestions total opposites?

Quoting thierryd (Reply 8):
Steven, including the whole Virgin aircraft would look a lot better. If that's not possible, cropping a bit closer on the lower frame would help.

How's this in comparrison. I have included the whole Virgin aircraft, but I think the extra sky (dead space) in front of the aircraft make the shot look unbalanced? Thoughts?


138 crop 1 by sausten, on Flickr
 
dendrobatid
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:19 am

I like it.
I think it is a touch distant and you could probably crop up to the Thai fin on the left. That would leave the Austral 'closer' but even further left but it is better photographic composition when photographing a moving object, to leave some space for the object to move into. Having said that, that change is subtle and compositionally I would be happy with it as it is. A comment to the Screener often helps to explain your reasons for doing a particular thing, say, 'A bit distant for sake of background' We might not agree but it does help us decide.

I make no comment as to the quality btw as I am again on a laptop...

Mick
 
mjgbtv
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:31 pm

Quoting sausten (Reply 10):
Am I missing something or are these suggestions total opposites?

I think Andrei's suggestion is to center the main subject as much as possible. Mine was to balance the two subjects (aircraft, row of tails) horizontally. Just two different approaches...
 
vikkyvik
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:49 pm

Looks much better, I think, but I would do this as well:

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 11):
crop up to the Thai fin on the left.

But overall, much better.

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 11):
but it is better photographic composition when photographing a moving object, to leave some space for the object to move into.

All due respect Mick, if we did that on a regular basis we'd get constant "distant" or "center" rejections, I think.  
 
Psych
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:20 pm

An interesting discussion.

From a purely A.net perspective (i.e. house style) I would expect Steve's original (rejected) to be the favoured option. For example, I would not dream of cropping wider to the left in the photo below, arguing that the Nimrod in the background should be 'complete'. I'd expect a rejection for that.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Paul Markman


The Nimrod is not really of any significance to the motive.

For me, in Steve's photo, it's the busy apron that is a valid part of the overall motive he's trying to portray. Yes, if it's possible to include uncropped aircraft in that background, all the better. As I said above, I'm a real advocate of avoiding awkward cropping. But it's the busy ramp, not any specific aircraft there, that form part of the motive - a big enough part to justify 'off centre' (vertical) centring. For me that trumps off centred lateral centring. To my eye, with house style in mind, as I say, Steve's revised version in a Reply 10 runs a greater risk of a 'distance' rejection (i.e. not cropped close enough to the subject) than the original one did for vertical centring - for which it was rejected, twice.

I hope I'm making sense here   .

Though it is many moons ago now, and things have changed, I recall asking the screeners to allow the wider crop in this AA photo, in order not to awkwardly crop the Concorde, and leave it complete.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Markman


But I then balanced the space to the left to ensure the aircraft was centred laterally. I would assume the same would be required now.

Cheers.

Paul

P.S. Looking at the AA 767 again, after all this time, I'd be tempted to place it a tad higher in the frame.

[Edited 2014-03-24 11:57:44]
 
sulman
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:08 pm

This is an area where submission standards conflict with general photography standards.

The only rule of thumb should be that if it looks right, it is right. I think the screeners largely work by that.
 
sausten
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:54 am

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 11):
I like it.

Thanks

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 11):
I think it is a touch distant and you could probably crop up to the Thai fin on the left. That would leave the Austral 'closer' but even further left but it is better photographic composition when photographing a moving object, to leave some space for the object to move into.

I though that might lead to another 'centre' or 'distance' rejection given there would be a great deal more sky on one side than on the other. What about something like this....

138 crop 2 by sausten, on Flickr

To be honest, to me this seems like the shot is moving further away from a.net standards. In this crop the subject aircraft is neither vertically or horizontally 'centered' correctly.

Quoting Psych (Reply 14):
From a purely A.net perspective (i.e. house style) I would expect Steve's original (rejected) to be the favoured option.

I have to agree.

Quoting Psych (Reply 14):
For me, in Steve's photo, it's the busy apron that is a valid part of the overall motive he's trying to portray.

Spot on. The parked aircraft in the background are what makes the scene unique.

Steve
 
Psych
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:38 am

Steve.

The more I come back and look, the more astonished I would be if your revised version is perceived to be a 'better' resolution within the rules of A.net. I agree there's an argument that it may be more in line with general photography principles (such as Mick's comment re leaving space for a moving object to travel into), but we all know A.net rules and photography principles don't always match (c.f. rule of thirds).

If you are able to place the original rejection, and the revised version, side by side, I would eat my hat if the majority of viewers conversant with A.net criteria believed the latter would be more likely to be accepted.

Similar to my linked AA 767 photo, the question is the extent to which the complete inclusion of the background aircraft 'trumps' the rule about 'distance'. In Steve's, I don't think it does. But - once again - we're getting distracted by lateral centring, when Steve's original issue was all about vertical centring. To use one of my favourite phrases here, I don't think the benefit of the doubt was given in this case. It's a very subjective decision.

Paul
 
ckw
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:39 am

Quoting Psych (Reply 17):
It's a very subjective decision.

Exactly. The "bad centered" rule just doesn't make sense to me - it is an attempt to quantify something which isn't (and shoudn't be) quantifiable. It also causes confusion as many great shots have to be treated as exceptions,

Why not just have bad-composition? Furthermore bad-composition should require the agreement of 2 out of 3 screeners because it is a subjective decsion.

I wonder how many great images have been diminished because the photographer compromised on their gut instinct in order to get the shot past the screeners.

Cheers,

Colin
 
IL76
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:47 am

My (and many other photographers') most popular pictures here are off center... Which proves a point I think. At some point (when I was a screener) we became more lenient towards the 'centering rule', but seems like it has gone back to strictness? (I haven't uploaded for over 2 years now, so I don't know for sure.)

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Photo © Eduard Brantjes
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Photo © Eduard Brantjes


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Photo © Eduard Brantjes
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Photo © Eduard Brantjes


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Photo © Eduard Brantjes
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Photo © Eduard Brantjes

 
vikkyvik
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting sausten (Reply 16):
To be honest, to me this seems like the shot is moving further away from a.net standards. In this crop the subject aircraft is neither vertically or horizontally 'centered' correctly.

Quoting Psych (Reply 14):
From a purely A.net perspective (i.e. house style) I would expect Steve's original (rejected) to be the favoured option.

I have to agree.

I think it's fine off-center. There is plenty of precedent for that when the scene calls for it. A few of my favorite photos are off-center:


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Photo © Vik S
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Vik S

Quoting ckw (Reply 18):
Why not just have bad-composition? Furthermore bad-composition should require the agreement of 2 out of 3 screeners because it is a subjective decsion.

More than likely, questionable-composition shots do get at least 2, and sometimes far more, screener opinions. It's not a rule as such, but that's usually how it works.

Quoting ckw (Reply 18):
I wonder how many great images have been diminished because the photographer compromised on their gut instinct in order to get the shot past the screeners.

That's up to the photographer, isn't it?
 
dendrobatid
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:38 pm

I see no reason why Steve's re-edited image should not be accepted for its composition-though it now seems rather bright. It is highly unlikely that it would be either rejected by one Screener or accepted by one as the 'different' is generally seen by a number of us until a concensus is reached.

We do not seek precision in centre, merely for them to be about right and as Vik, Ed, Paul and Steve have shown, they can be accepted off centre when they work - they have used accepted images to demonstrate that fact. The bottom line is that they all work though !

It is also rather difficult to use rejected images to demonstrate what will not be accepted as that is not fair on those who submitted them but I tried to explain early in this thread. The site walks a tightrope between being a database and a photo gallery and a very poorly centred side on against a blue sky needs to be judged against the very poorly centred images by Ed that are compositionally excellent. They comply with a different set of rules, that of thirds but the site is managing to accept both sorts.

Mick
 
ckw
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:05 pm

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 21):
The site walks a tightrope between being a database and a photo gallery and a very poorly centred side on against a blue sky needs to be judged against the very poorly centred images by Ed that are compositionally excellent. They comply with a different set of rules, that of thirds but the site is managing to accept both sorts.

So wouldn't "bad composition" be clearer and fairer?

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20):
That's up to the photographer, isn't it?

Well of course, and the photographer may decide to not bother - but that doesn't help A.net does it?

I think those who have been around for some time forget how frustrating and impossible it can seem for a beginner to get accepted. You get a rejection for bad centered, yet as has been shown the db is full of exceptions. A bad comp rejection - perhaps with a short explanation (as has been given here) is much more helpful and goes someway toward supporting the photographer.

I suspect bad-center is really a hold over from early days where the perfect side-on was the definition of primo A,net material. Things have moved on.

I'm not suggesting dropping standards by any means, just making them a little more understandable.

Cheers,

Colin
 
spencer
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:15 pm

Been a while since I viewed the boards so forgive me for including a question re a rejection I received a long time ago. Would the image below be acceptable today? Thanks.

Spence
 
sausten
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:37 am

Quoting IL76 (Reply 19):

My (and many other photographers') most popular pictures here are off center...
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 20):
I think it's fine off-center.

They're great examples. Thanks for sharing them. What's good to see is that they all are consistent with Mick's definition of balance...

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 2):
imagine a line across the centre of the frame and the WHOLE COMPOSITION should balance around that line.

... and Paul's ''squinty eye test'.

In the examples provided by Vik and Eduard, the clouds, vapour or tower provide the necessary balance to make the shot work. In my latest revised edit though, there appears nothing in front of the aircraft to balance the shot. Thoughts?

Quoting Psych (Reply 17):
The more I come back and look, the more astonished I would be if your revised version is perceived to be a 'better' resolution within the rules of A.net.

The more I look, the more I tend to agree.

Quoting spencer (Reply 23):
Would the image below be acceptable today?

Before this thread started I would have said no.. but now I'm not sure. The question is, do the clouds in the upper half of the shot provide the necessary balance?

Steve
 
dendrobatid
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:59 am

Steve
To me the re-edit looks a bit bright but what is there to lose by trying ? Remember what I said about leaving a comment for the Screeener about why it is off centre. I will now step back from this particular image and not take a part in screening it unless it ends up with the Headscreeners.

Spencer
To me yours does not work, there is not a counterpoise, a balance. Too magenta too....

Good discussion though  

Mick
 
sausten
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:08 am

Thanks Mick. The two examples I have shared have been cropped only. I will of course have a look at the levels and sharpness before uploading here.

Steve
 
ckw
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:10 am

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 25):
To me yours does not work, there is not a counterpoise, a balance. Too magenta too....

Very subjective, but I would say the cloud formation being more prominent in the top left does provide the balance. If you crop it to better centre concorde, it loses any dynamic and becomes lifeless. The eye keeps being drawn back to the nose and doesn't wander off the page.

Cheers,

Colin
 
Psych
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:50 pm

Could we take the discussion to another level, maybe?

I have sympathy with Colin's view on Spence's shot - it is balanced at one level. One question is whether the cloud formation to the top left is 'interesting' enough to warrant an off-centre placement for A.net submission. To take this further we need to be able to unpick what A.net's criteria are all about and there to achieve, and examine further Mick's point about the site trying to walk the tightrope between database and photo gallery.

What is achieved by photos being rejected? Obvious answer is that 'standards are maintained'. What standards? I like the high quality standards of this site - hence why I spend more time here than anywhere else after all these years. But I don't like the 'anality' for which A.net has developed a reputation. Too many good photos get rejected (well, that's my fantasy anyhow) for less than perfect reasons. Leaving aside the issue of colour in Spence's photo (and isn't that a whole different, though related, debate) what's to offend by its inclusion? Here I am playing Devil's Advocate. If it isn't centred properly, why does it need to be? Some people, like Colin, will see it as aesthetically pleasing. Is that enough? What's different with this one, as opposed to Ed's top and bottom right shots, that he has offered up? There the aviation subject is way off centre and smaller. That they 'work' is a purely subjective matter.

The problem we have is that it isn't possible to 'operationally define' this subjective decision making. For me it's back to that old adage I was constantly banging on about all those years ago now - when the photo could be seen to conflict with a subjective element of the site's main criiteria, what is to be lost by giving the photographer the benefit of the doubt? No one loses. DM (and the photographer) get some extra views. Many of us know that it is often the 'atypical' shots that get noticed and generate the most views. I like the 'photography' aspect of aviation photography and this site - photos of toilets and seats in planes are of no interest to me. I understand why to some they are - so be it. But let's give the photographer the benefit of the doubt for these really subjective criteria.

Back to Steve - however I look at it his initial photo was not given the benefit of the doubt (from the centring perspective at least). To my eye his proposal in Reply 10 works less well - aesthetically (because, rightly or wrongly, in this image I am not interested in the Virgin Airbus, so it doesn't offend my eye to see it cropped). In Ed's top and bottom left photos in Reply 19 we need to see the position of the sun for the image to work - so it would 'offend' for that to be cropped out.

Uh oh - I am in danger of becoming 'bloviate', as the great Jeff M once called me here (and I have never forgotten!). Time to stop for now.

Paul
 
vikkyvik
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting Psych (Reply 28):
What's different with this one, as opposed to Ed's top and bottom right shots, that he has offered up? There the aviation subject is way off centre and smaller.

Interestingly, Spence's shot as posted doesn't work for me, but I think a looser crop with a smaller airplane may work better.

To me the current crop is kind of "in-between" - it's not framed closely around the aircraft, but it's not wide enough to maintain my interest in the aircraft's surroundings, either.

If Ed's Avro photo (ID 1512940) was cropped in to approximately the same framing as Spence's photo, it wouldn't work for me either. But the very wide framing, including much of the clouds, is interesting.
 
spencer
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:53 pm

Some good points there (Paul).
But to put it bluntly I feel both your comments and those of Colin, will only fall on deaf ears.
Very true what you say, that what's to offend by its inclusion? I'd go a step further and can see it being quite a view puller, should it be added.
But the sad thing here at A.net is it's so stuck in its ways, living off "we're the high standards web site", that it's actually lost photogs that helped put it there in the first place.
The standards may be high, but that certainly doesn't mean it's the biggest or the best.
So, what is A.net then? A database, or a host for amazing photographs?
A database you say? Well, there's obviously some awesome shots on here that neither show reg or colours. Think silhoette for example.
A host for amazing photos? Well, I believe with the rejections alone, such as my Concorde shot, you could probably start up another website that truly caters for such images.
Hmm, interesting notion...  
Personally, the days where I got wound up over a rejection are long gone. The sad thing is such shots would bring people to the site, which to me can only be a good thing.
Oh yes, we have the My Aviation Web (or whatever it goes by) where we can happily upload riskè pics.
Cheers
Spence
 
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:35 pm

Quoting Psych (Reply 28):
The problem we have is that it isn't possible to 'operationally define' this subjective decision making.

Not objectively, but informed judgements can be made. It is a common fallacy that one persons opinion is as good as another when it comes to judging photos. But its not - the editorial eye takes a lot of training ... looking at a lot of good and bad pictures ... before you get an eye for what makes a photo work. I'll wager the more experienced screeners here can spot 1/2 degree tilt or a dust spec in a glance at 50 meters.

Anyway my point is why not let the screeners (at least those with some experience) exercise their judgement. It will probably be better than most. The one thing I hated as a screener was having to reject a decent shot because it broke an arbitrary rule.

Cheers

Colin
 
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:59 pm

Hello

I love Spencer's Concorde image, works for me, both composition and colour.

Gary
 
Psych
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RE: A Better Understanding Of The 'centre' Rule

Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:46 pm

I agree with your point, Colin, that sound judgement is crucial. Hence my hatred for those horribly centred images, with cropped fins, just so that the fuselage is in the (vertical) centre of the shot.

Interestingly a friend asked me to show him an example of what I was referring to there, and I couldn't easily find one. Does that indicate they are out of favour at last?

Fully agree re letting the screeners exercise their judgement - particularly when they see both sides of an argument and choose to find in favour of the photographer   .

Paul

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