Air Canada Air To Air

winterlight · Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:01 am

Is it just me or are the crops on both these shots a bit off? Wouldn't they look even better if done correctly?

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Photo © Brian Losito

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Photo © Brian Losito

angad84 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:38 am

The first one maybe a little. The second one looks fine. Great even

I believe A2A shots get a fair bit of leniency during screening, because they're obviously quite difficult to get *just right*.

Cheers
Angad

jderden777 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:35 pm

Quoting winterlight (Thread starter):
Is it just me or are the crops on both these shots a bit off? Wouldn't they look even better if done correctly?

Yep they'd look so much better if they were taken in winter light Yeah sure

[Edited 2015-01-06 07:37:18]

[Edited 2015-01-06 07:52:05]

sovietjet · Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:48 pm

I don't see what's not done correctly. The only thing I can see that isn't done correctly is screening for "double"

since the same photographer has 3 photos accepted from similar angles. The two above and this one:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © brianlosito

I'm not complaining, I'm glad all three are accepted. Wonderful photos!

aagold · Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:45 pm

The shots are absolutely beautiful and all should be included in the database as they are.

Good job Brian.

tom3 · Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:45 pm

Note 4: Only one e-mail address per photographer is allowed

It seems that he is uploading photos with different e-mail addresses = brianlosito and Brian Losito

But the photos are stunning.

Tom

vikkyvik · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting winterlight (Thread starter):
Wouldn't they look even better if done correctly?

OK, so what would you have done differently to "correct" them?

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 3):
I don't see what's not done correctly. The only thing I can see that isn't done correctly is screening for "double" since the same photographer has 3 photos accepted from similar angles. The two above and this one:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 3):
Wonderful photos!

Absolutely!

winterlight · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:24 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 6):
OK, so what would you have done differently to "correct" them?

I'm trying to upload my reworked version but thumbnail doesn't show.

[Edited 2015-01-06 09:25:26]

ThierryD · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:28 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 3):
The only thing I can see that isn't done correctly is screening for "double" since the same photographer has 3 photos accepted from similar angles.

Quoting tom3 (Reply 5):
It seems that he is uploading photos with different e-mail addresses = brianlosito and Brian Losito

That has already been noted and the photographer has been made aware that one account and at least one photo needs to go. This will be processed in the coming days.

Kind regards,

Thierry

winterlight · Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:38 pm

I thought something like this.

GuitrThree · Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 9):

I thought something like this.

Well sure, if you digitally manipulate the picture by shortening the wing you can get it just right... these photos are outstanding and should have no question about acceptance on this site.....

DL747 · Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:25 am

Hi,

Since no one else has said this, let me just be blunt here. I might not make many friends with this statement, but blatantly criticizing someone's work on a public forum is bad etiquette. The obvious appearance that the photographer put a lot of effort into these shots makes it even worse. If you think it can be done better than the original photographer did it himself, maybe you could try the shoot. Digitally manipulating the wing is not allowed for this site. Therefore, your "fix" doesn't even hold water. I don't think that openly saying the photographer did something wrong is a correct course of action.

Regards,

John

andrew50 · Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:00 am

When I first saw these shots, all I could think was WOW! Absolutely stunning shots! Unbelievable that someone would be trying to find something wrong with these photos.

kann123air · Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:13 am

Quoting DL747 (Reply 11):
blatantly criticizing someone's work on a public forum is bad etiquette.

John beat me to it. I was about to say the exact same thing.

Quoting andrew50 (Reply 12):
all I could think was WOW! Absolutely stunning shots!

Same here! The banking shot got my vote for PC, and I'm glad that it made it there, where it certainly deserves to be.

gavinconroy · Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:26 am

Having done more than 400 air to air photo flights myself I have nothing but admiration for the photographer that took those stunning photos.
Really like the head on one, the clouds etc are amazing.

Can only imagine the amount of work that went into those photos so well done that man!!

angad84 · Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:34 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 10):
Well sure, if you digitally manipulate the picture by shortening the wing you can get it just right

Quoting DL747 (Reply 11):
. Digitally manipulating the wing is not allowed for this site. Therefore, your "fix" doesn't even hold water.

He's not saying a digitally manipulated photo should be uploaded, he's just saying if the shot had been composed to look like his digitally manipulated version, it would look better. I don't disagree, but like I said earlier:

Quoting angad84 (Reply 1):
I believe A2A shots get a fair bit of leniency during screening, because they're obviously quite difficult to get *just right*.

Cheers
Angad

Smoketrails · Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:18 pm

Dear winterlight,

Once again you start a thread in which you criticise a photo and it's photographer! Is it jealousy that makes you want to start these threads? The shots are stunning, absolutely nothing wrong with them... If you have a beef to settle with a.net and it's screeners then please refrain from dragging other people into it.

ThierryD · Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting Smoketrails (Reply 16):
Dear winterlight,

Once again you start a thread in which you criticise a photo and it's photographer! Is it jealousy that makes you want to start these threads? The shots are stunning, absolutely nothing wrong with them... If you have a beef to settle with a.net and it's screeners then please refrain from dragging other people into it.

I think there is no need to go after "winterlight" now. It may not be the best etiquette to question another photographer's work but he didn't insult anything or anybody but just asking if the photos wouldn't - I quote - look even better if done correctly and he has done so in a constructive way.
To each his/her own opinion. Some people like the photos just as they are while others think they'd look better if done otherwise. I, for instance, would also find the banking shot even more appealing if the aircraft had been moved a bit more to the lower left and would include the whole stabilizer. That is my personal opinion and in a photography forum it should be allowed to be voiced.
No doubt though that a lot of work went into this shooting and it's great that Brian chose to share them with us on Airliners.net.

Kind regards,

Thierry

vikkyvik · Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 17):
I think there is no need to go after "winterlight" now. It may not be the best etiquette to question another photographer's work but he didn't insult anything or anybody but just asking if the photos wouldn't - I quote - look even better if done correctly

Different people may have different understandings, but saying:

Quoting winterlight (Thread starter):
Wouldn't they look even better if done correctly?

...implies that they were done incorrectly. That's certainly not nice to the photographer.

Quoting ThierryD (Reply 17):
To each his/her own opinion. Some people like the photos just as they are while others think they'd look better if done otherwise. I, for instance, would also find the banking shot even more appealing if the aircraft had been moved a bit more to the lower left and would include the whole stabilizer. That is my personal opinion and in a photography forum it should be allowed to be voiced.

I agree, and I don't think the thread is bad enough to be removed or anything. But there's certainly room to be less negative about it.

sovietjet · Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:25 pm

Instead of "correctly" I think "differently" is a better word

trevisan26 · Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:19 pm

Awesome photos, but without doubt, for me the first photo could be cropped in a different way looking better. The second, without doubt too, one of the best pictures at airliners.net in the last times.

Thiago Trevisan

Schmave · Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:19 pm

I think the reason the OP is finding fault with the crops on these photos is that he is used to A.net's rather lame standards when it comes to cropping photos. I think these shots are awesome. There are a lot of photos in this database that look odd to me because of the tight cropping requirements and not leaving any space for the plane to move into, or having the aircraft not be perfectly centered vertically in the image. These "standards" often conflict with generally accepted composition practices in photography. The OP has been brainwashed by these "standards", which is why he thinks the photos look "off".

gkirk · Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:40 pm

The 3rd one with the shadow of the photo plane is stunning!

vikkyvik · Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting Schmave (Reply 21):
The OP has been brainwashed by these "standards", which is why he thinks the photos look "off".

That's no better than the OP saying the photos are cropped incorrectly.

There's no harm in discussing differing viewpoints on photography/editing, as long as it's kept respectful.

Schmave · Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:50 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 23):
That's no better than the OP saying the photos are cropped incorrectly.

I apologize to the OP for my rant above. What I am trying to say is that in photography, there are generally no hard and fast rules. Yes, you should get your subject in focus, and there is generally a proper exposure (though depending on what you are trying to do you may want to over/underexpose the "proper" exposure. IMO, the composition "standards" on this site (plane should be centered in frame) can conflict with photographic "rules" (which should also not always be blindly adhered to). For example, the rule of thirds (which often makes for more pleasing pictures but is not always the best solution) conflicts with the centering rule.

I understand why A.net has their standards. They want to be a database of aircraft on the internet. As such, I can see why they want the aircraft centered in the frame (though IMO I think this should be given leniency if the image looks "better" with a different crop/composition).

I think the OP just frustrated me a bit because he said "Wouldn't they look even better if done correctly?", which implies that there is something wrong with the crop/composition.

flight · Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:24 am

Guys, I am a bit confused.

Should'nt there be an Objective reason as to why these work etc or the crops we have seen on the database.

I have always liked and cropped photograph like these in my work:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Icelandair/Boeing-757-208/2570831/L/

OR

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Israe...d=f7018e0e6d7714b677df0195cc24e955

But are these "generally accepted composition practices"?

I do think they work...
I hate to have the mindset, that they work for me and I dont care what people say, Instead Ill like to know why etc with different shots that I take.

Steven

vikkyvik · Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting flight (Reply 25):
Should'nt there be an Objective reason as to why these work

Short answer: no.

Long answer: beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

That said, there are certain photo conventions, like rule-of-thirds, that tend to be pleasing to the eye. I'm sure there's a physiological reason for this buried somewhere in our brains.

ckw · Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:05 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 26):
That said, there are certain photo conventions, like rule-of-thirds, that tend to be pleasing to the eye. I'm sure there's a physiological reason for this buried somewhere in our brains.

Indeed, and possibly mathematical ones as well (look up "golden ratio"). But no one has yet conclusively demonstrated why X is better than Y. Maybe that would be a good AI test - pick the better picture.

The rule of thirds, while it generally seems to work, is of course really a guideline. It comes from the late 18th century where the ethos of the day was to provide scientific rules to everything (a lot of the bizarre "rules" in grammar and music come from the same period).

Of course many of the greatest photos deliberately break the "rules".

As to the pics in question ... in an ideal world, I think I would prefer more space in front of the aircraft in the first shot (or less space behind). The reason being that the left side of the shot looks "heavy", the pic is a bit unbalanced - it would be hard to hang straight on a wall by eye alone. 2nd shot I would keep as is. 3rd shot (with the shadow) is for me almost brilliant, but I'm bothered by the fact that the shadow aircraft is not aligned with the subject to the extent that I think I would prefer it with out the shadow.

Having said that, these are hyper-critical views from purely an aesthetics point of view. I would be proud to have made any of these pics myself. It's also quite possible I would see these shots differently tomorrow. I often find looking over old work I see new ways of cropping an image.

Cheers,

Colin

vikkyvik · Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:05 pm

So this is really weird - maybe a Screener or DB Editor can comment:

The thumbnail of the first shot - ID 2568860 - now looks different than the actual photo. The thumbnail shows a similar angle, but the whole aircraft, while the large photo still has the wings and tail cropped.

Moose135 · Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 28):
So this is really weird - maybe a Screener or DB Editor can comment:

The thumbnail of the first shot - ID 2568860 - now looks different than the actual photo. The thumbnail shows a similar angle, but the whole aircraft, while the large photo still has the wings and tail cropped.

I just looked, and the large (and medium) photo matches the new thumbnail, showing the entire wing and tail.

angad84 · Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 28):
The thumbnail of the first shot - ID 2568860 - now looks different than the actual photo. The thumbnail shows a similar angle, but the whole aircraft, while the large photo still has the wings and tail cropped.

Cache issue at your end. It's a whole new photo now.

Cheers
Angad

vikkyvik · Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting angad84 (Reply 30):
Cache issue at your end. It's a whole new photo now.

Interesting. Happened on both home and work computers - thanks for the info. My cache apparently still has issues, as the medium photo matches the thumbnail, but the large does not. Oh well.

Screeners/Editors, just out of curiosity, how does the new photo resolve the double issue?

I don't personally particularly care - they're great additions to the DB - but I am curious.

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