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G-CIVP
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Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:25 pm

This topic should probably belong in 'Site Related' but since the majority of the Screeners and Photographers read this part of the Forum, here it is.

So what is my beef regarding photo comments? Quite simply the 'exaggerated photo comment' which to my mind is being used as a method to increase views and photo hits. At the time of writing, a photo has been added to the database and the photographer has highlighted that the aircraft winglet is missing and that "it seems it was ripped off".

It is obvious from the photo that the winglet wasn't 'ripped off' as the aircraft wouldn't be flying; the use of the word 'ripped' implies damage to the wing but there isn't any! I would say that the photographer's exaggerated words are being used to encourage viewers to look at the photo for possible damage when there is none, thus increasing the number of hits or views the photo receives. As industry insiders will know, having an aircraft fly without a winglet is not an unusual event as some would like to believe. I'm loathed to add a link as the photo in question will receive yet more views!

I know why the replies will be; "It is unusual for this aircraft. It doesn't happen much with this airline", so it is justifiable comment!

While I acknowledge that comments to a photo do raise the viewers' interest, would it be possible for have some guidelines in this area? My sense is that if photographers start adding any old rubbish to photos, the database begins to lose the feel and any sense of professionalism, when in fact, a number of photographers on here see themselves as pro photographers rather than amateurs.
 
photopilot
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Thread starter):
I would say that the photographer's exaggerated words are being used to encourage viewers to look at the photo for possible damage when there is none, thus increasing the number of hits or views the photo receives.

While I agree fully with what you're saying, the sad reality is that there will always be a segment of A.net posters that seek approbation from others in the belief that number of hits equals some sort of victory. Pyrrhic to say the least IMHO.

Quoting G-CIVP (Thread starter):
a number of photographers on here see themselves as pro photographers rather than amateurs.

If they wish to fool themselves or inflate their own egos with a title, who am we to quibble?
 
dragonskiss
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:59 am

It's just like a typical news story that contains a comical amount of sensationalism to garner interest.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 1):
Quoting G-CIVP (Thread starter):
a number of photographers on here see themselves as pro photographers rather than amateurs.

If they wish to fool themselves or inflate their own egos with a title, who am we to quibble?

   Exactly. Let 'em be. They're only deceiving themselves.
 
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Joshu
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:33 am

Quoting photopilot (Reply 1):
A.net posters that seek approbation from others in the belief that number of hits equals some sort of victory.

You mean the photographers that link across many websites to make it to the front page?

It seems everyone tries to generate hits using some sort of technical/language method.
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len90
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:53 am

I personally will make my comment relevant like telling the runway a plane just took off from or landing from. IF a plane is rare or special to an area I will note that. I will also note my milestone images, something I started with my 100th acceptance and will just continue to do on each 100th added. Finally, some of my more "motive" shots I will use the comment to explain the reason for the shot or how a shot happened.

Quoting Joshu (Reply 3):

But then that will start the whole A.net Facebook promotion debate again....   
Len90
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:04 am

One could make the case that uploading a photo to A.net in the first place is a quest for some sort of approbation from viewers.

So, basically, why worry about it?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:36 am

Quoting G-CIVP (Thread starter):
a photo has been added to the database and the photographer has highlighted that the aircraft winglet is missing and that "it seems it was ripped off".

It looks like the comment has been removed or corrected.

I figure exaggerated or sensational comments are fine as long as the are true. However, false or speculative comments should be removed. Unless the photographer knows the winglet was "ripped off", the comment shouldn't be made.
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ThierryD
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:49 am

Quoting G-CIVP (Thread starter):
While I acknowledge that comments to a photo do raise the viewers' interest, would it be possible for have some guidelines in this area?

There actually are guidelines and if a photo remark (photo comments btw are the comments left by viewers to a certain photo) doesn't fulfill the criteria it will be amended or removed by the screeners during the screening process. However if you feel that a remark slipped through which shouldn't be there, feel free to write an email to the screeners ([email protected]) or to the editors ([email protected]) who will have a look at it and take the necessary steps if deemed required.

Regards,

Thierry
"Go ahead...make my day"
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:47 am

Many thanks for the replies.

Thierry, many thanks for the explanation. I think on this occasion a comment slipped through and wasn't detected. Indeed, I was at a bit of loss who to write to.

The other thing to wary of, and I do mean this sincerely, is the airlines themselves! Using this case as an example, if photographers make disparaging or incorrect remarks about aircraft and the implied lack of due care (sic) to towards staff and passengers, do expect a strongly worded letter or email from the airline's legal team, especially those domiciled in the United Kingdom.

In reply to the other comments above. I'm not party to Anet and Facebook debate as I'm not a Facebook user, so cannot provide any insight. As for hit generation, I have noticed that Anet links to Twitter do seem to increase the hits a particular photo receives.

I'm not against general comments, e.g. landing in Tuscon, whatever, but when the comment is factually incorrect, it is inappropriate. Digressing, I do find the milestone comments such as "my 1,000th photo", or "dedicated to the birth of my son" abit corny as these references are only meaningful to the photographer, not the wider world. This said, they are innocuous so I'm not going to work up a sweat.

Thanks once again.
 
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kulverstukas
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:10 pm

How can photographer remarks (you mean them, not other photographers comments which affects star rating of the photo) increase photo views? This remarks are not visible at preview and nobody can guess that there is "exaggerated photo comment". And to read it one must look at full size photo and this means that he already generates view.
 
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Kaphias
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting kulverstukas (Reply 9):
This remarks are not visible at preview


I believe they are.

 
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Joshu
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:22 pm

We have been truncating comments that are way too long or not very relevant to the photo.
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310815
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:26 pm

Sorry but isn't it nice when the photographer adds some kind of comment to his / her shot?

Sometimes you see rather interesting shots where you might want some more information on and then no comment at all. Some photographers really make an effort and try to make some comment to most of their shots and I really appreciate that..and still they get criticized for that?! For me better a comment that is a bit exaggerated than none.

And what's wrong by giving it a bit of a "personal note"?! I don't get that. My point of view.
For example I like to click through Paul Paulsen's gallery not only for his unique shots but also for the interesting stories he tells... Just as an example. I could list many other photographers as well.

[Edited 2015-10-25 09:41:59]
 
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kann123air
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 12):
For me better a comment that is a bit exaggerated than none.

Agreed. I always try to integrate an interesting comment into my uploads.

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 12):
And what's wrong by giving it a bit of a "personal note"?!

   I enjoy reading such notes. It makes the photo itself more interesting.

Amrit
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acontador
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:33 pm

Since it was my picture that was affected, I guess I should say a few words. Just in case, this is the original remark of the picture:

"Anybody noticing anything different in this picture? You have got to love Heathrow for the variety and sheer number of airliners that come and go in a steady stream, but for sure it is not an everyday event to photograph an A340 missing a winglet! Don't know what actually happened, but looking closely it seems it was ripped off [Canon 7DII + EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM]."

This one was removed and replaced (not upon my request) by a different remark, which sounded like written by a 5-year old, so I submitted a new version, which is the one visible in reply 10 of this thread.

Now, obviously everyone can read and judge by themselves, but it would have been nice to be first contacted directly instead of posting this in the forum (maybe I am too naïve but at least that is what I would have done!).

Quoting G-CIVP (Thread starter):
I would say that the photographer's exaggerated words are being used to encourage viewers to look at the photo for possible damage when there is none, thus increasing the number of hits or views the photo receives.

Actually not, but you didn't even give me a chance to explain that! I am not a LHR regular, I have to literally travel halfway around the world to get there, so it's a huge investment in terms of resources to finally being able to stand there. I don't really know how you can see things at 1200 pixels that I can/cannot at full resolution, but since I have never seen before an aircraft missing a winglet, I used the wording "Don't know what actually happened, but looking closely it seems it was ripped off". While English is not my first language, I guess we all agree that using the word "seems" makes it quite clear that this is just my personal opinion and not a fact.

Now, since we all now know what happened I was able to correct the remark and reflect facts, which is the usual content of my 5,000+ remarks in the database (which you would have noticed if you had cared to investigate more).

If there is one thing that I really don't like being accused off is for being hit-seeking, as I think that all my pics and their corresponding remarks clearly show otherwise. I love to get hits, I love to have my pictures being viewed, that is the reason why I post them here, but believe me that if I wanted to really increase hits I wouldn't do it via a remark (which incidentally you have proven once more most of the people don't read).

Many thanks to all who have viewed this and all my other pictures, and also many thanks for the comments (be it positive or negative) and the PC votes, really appreciated   !

[Edited 2015-10-25 11:46:31]

[Edited 2015-10-25 11:50:05]
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727LOVER
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting unattendedbag (Reply 6):
I figure exaggerated or sensational comments are fine as long as the are true

Why is it that we can no longer inform viewers that it is the first pic in the database of a certain aircraft?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:46 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 12):

      

Nothing more needs to be said. Every now and then I add what I think is a funny comment to one of my photos. You could easily consider that hit-seeking, but it's not. It's just a personal touch.

In fact, in my one photo of an airliner with a winglet missing, my comment states:

Hmmm, appears to be something missing. Approaching 24R. (Rebel XS + 18-55 IS)

Is that hit-seeking, because I didn't say what was missing, and you might have to click on the photo to find out?

Quoting acontador (Reply 14):

Well said, Andres.

I think we all have better things to worry about than rather innocuous photo remarks.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:56 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 16):
Is that hit-seeking, because I didn't say what was missing, and you might have to click on the photo to find out?

To my mind, yes! I know we will disagree, so best if we agree to disagree.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 17):
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 16):
Is that hit-seeking, because I didn't say what was missing, and you might have to click on the photo to find out?

To my mind, yes! I know we will disagree, so best if we agree to disagree.

I suppose so!

But I must say, what a boring bunch of comments it would be. I think a little humor, a story to go along with the shot, whatever, just adds to the photo and the site. Why do I care if a photo gets a few more views, or even a few thousand more views, because of it?

Which brings up this question:

Isn't complaining about hit-seeking just basically reinforcing the idea that those complaining are also hit-seeking?
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 18):
Isn't complaining about hit-seeking just basically reinforcing the idea that those complaining are also hit-seeking?

No, doesn't follow. Ultimately I would just like to see factually correct comments rather than those that are abit whacky. It's a personal preference.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:31 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 12):

Sometimes you see rather interesting shots where you might want some more information on and then no comment at all. Some photographers really make an effort and try to make some comment to most of their shots and I really appreciate that..and still they get criticized for that?! For me better a comment that is a bit exaggerated than none.

I 100% agree. There are many times where I see an interesting shot, and an explanation would be very helpful to better understanding it.

Quoting G-CIVP (Thread starter):
My sense is that if photographers start adding any old rubbish to photos, the database begins to lose the feel and any sense of professionalism, when in fact, a number of photographers on here see themselves as pro photographers rather than amateurs.

I think you might be making a mountain out of a molehill. It's the quality of the photos that makes the database strong. And to be honest, many times having a description that draws the viewer to click is a good thing. As a small thumbnail, I may not have seen that the A346's winglet was gone. Furthermore, I really don't see how trying to get more views on your photos is a bad thing. That is the whole reason for this site, so other people can view the photos we take. If we didn't want anybody to view them, they would never be uploaded.
DH8A DH8B CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 318 319 320 321 333 343 712 732 733 734 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77L 77W
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:52 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 19):
No, doesn't follow. Ultimately I would just like to see factually correct comments rather than those that are abit whacky. It's a personal preference.

Ah, so the issue is the potentially inaccurate comment, rather than the hit-seeking. Sorry, I though otherwise from your initial post.

Anyway, as I noted, I prefer some personality to show in the comment.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
megatop412
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:00 pm

To me the judgment of a remark's "subjectivity" should be no different than the judgment applied to the photos themselves. Photos have rejected from the database for motive reasons that really are the photographer's interpretation of color and light that best suits the airframe, yet someone subjectively decided that motive was unclear or inappropriate for inclusion.

Photos rejected for a particular 'tint' by one screener, for example, with others accepted with that same tint and captioned as "arriving/departing in beautiful morning/evening light", I think demonstrates that it really is impossible to expect a completely consistent approach to the screening process. I would expect the same of the comments, with some being tagged as 'irrelevant' while others of the same character (e.g., "my 500th upload!") being allowed to stand, despite the complete lack of relevancy to the database.

My personal feeling is to not allow anything personal in the captions, whether they are stories not directly relevant to the shot or a milestone marker or a dedication. You want to do that, do it on your own personal cloud site like I do.
 
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kann123air
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:11 am

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 22):
My personal feeling is to not allow anything personal in the captions

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Amrit
Going for great
 
727LOVER
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 22):
I would expect the same of the comments, with some being tagged as 'irrelevant' while others of the same character (e.g., "my 500th upload!") being allowed to stand, despite the complete lack of relevancy to the database.

Which brings me to the question I asked earlier...that wasn't answered...

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 15):
Why is it that we can no longer inform viewers that it is the first pic in the database of a certain aircraft?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 22):
My personal feeling is to not allow anything personal in the captions, whether they are stories not directly relevant to the shot or a milestone marker or a dedication.

No one here makes you read them.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 22):
To me the judgment of a remark's "subjectivity" should be no different than the judgment applied to the photos themselves. Photos have rejected from the database for motive reasons that really are the photographer's interpretation of color and light that best suits the airframe, yet someone subjectively decided that motive was unclear or inappropriate for inclusion.

I'd say the screening does apply to the remark in much the same way as the photo. There is some lenience for subjectivity / photographer preference in the photo, as there is in the remark. Screeners to sometimes delete / modify remarks that don't follow the site's guidelines, or are too long, or whatever.

Screeners have some edit control over the remark, category, registration, etc., so you won't always see photos simply rejected for them.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
megatop412
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 25):
No one here makes you read them.

I'm sorry, I thought this thread was a discussion where people could express their opinions.

And obviously if you view the photo the caption is right there next to the photo. Your eyes, whether you admit it or not, are drawn to it naturally. Who here will say "oh I make sure I ignore the words right next to the picture"?

Saying no one can be made to read it is like saying no one forces you to read billboards on the highway.


So currently, there are two almost identical shots in the top 5. One features a bare-bones description of the fact that it is the first flight of that color scheme. Relevant. The remark accompanying the other, while I can appreciate the author's enthusiasm and happiness about it being their favorite carrier and how much they like the new colors, is overly sentimental for the database and as I stated previously would be more appropriate in a personal photo storage site. But whatever, carry on
 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:00 am

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 27):
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was a discussion where people could express their opinions.

It is. I'm just saying that if you have such a problem with comments don't read them. You have a problem with the comments. Ok, I get it, that's fine. But you know what? I can't stand cigarettes and their horrid smell. You know what I do/don't do? I don't smoke them or go into places that allow smoking. What I certainly don't do is stand outside of the establishment and demand that they stop letting people smoke because I don't like it. I don't even suggest it. I simply move on the next spot and don't let it bother me. I suggest that if the comments are such a deterrent to your enjoyment of this site, do the same. There are much bigger fish to fry here like inconsistent screening and advertising in your face than to worry that some photographer posted the fact that this was his/her 100th picture accepted.

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 27):
Saying no one can be made to read it is like saying no one forces you to read billboards on the highway.

Yea, you made my point. No one makes me read them. They are pretty easy to ignore. I move on and congratulate the owner of the land who makes a pot load of money by letting some ad agency pay him/her money for doing nothing. Again, I don't go knocking on his/her door and demand that they stop the billboard from happening because I think it detracts from whatever, something you are suggesting be done here.....
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acontador
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:59 am

Hi William,

While I fully support that this forum is open for discussion, I think it is also important that we all do so with respect and accepting that the site has laid out certain rules to do so.

Therefore, considering that as far as I can see you do not contribute with pictures (nor remarks associated with them), saying

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 27):
The remark accompanying the other, while I can appreciate the author's enthusiasm and happiness about it being their favorite carrier and how much they like the new colors, is overly sentimental for the database and as I stated previously would be more appropriate in a personal photo storage site.

sounds to me like a cheap shot at a respected photographer and uploader, who does contribute to the site.

You may have your opinion about remarks, which you have already stated a couple of times, but please don't try to impose it on others. As yourself, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I would respectfully suggest you to make your own site and impose whatever rules you feel like. A.net has their own rules (including what's acceptable as a remark and what not):

Quoting:

What should I write in the Remark field and can I write it in my native language?
Always use English. Do not type in all CAPITALS and don't use the field for praising your photos ("A lovely photo!" and things like that). Instead supply as much info as you can (within reasonable limits) about the photo and the aircraft pictured. The Registration Number is important although not necessary.
Will you change the info I add to the different fields?
Yes, if the info is incorrect or if we or someone else has [relevant and important] additional information. We reserve the right to make changes as we see fit. However, we go by the motto: The info supplied by the photographer is always correct until proven wrong.


Cheers,
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:29 pm

Any chance that this thread can be closed? I think we have exhausted the topic!
 
megatop412
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:21 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 28):
Yea, you made my point. No one makes me read them. They are pretty easy to ignore. I move on and congratulate the owner of the land who makes a pot load of money by letting some ad agency pay him/her money for doing nothing. Again, I don't go knocking on his/her door and demand that they stop the billboard from happening because I think it detracts from whatever, something you are suggesting be done here.....

So, no one makes you read the comments, just like no one made you read mine, but you did.

It's funny how when valid points are made here people react by asking to not have opinions "imposed" on them or even go so far as to suggest that a thread get shut down. I said what I did in a respectful fashion, and last I checked don't need to contribute shots to participate in this forum. People need to learn to accept that others have viewpoints that are sometimes different than their own. If all it takes is pointing out a real valid example of what I've said that gets people upset, maybe it's too easy to strike a nerve here.

My personal site is replete with personal commentary. I would not do that here, if I ever decided to upload again, so there is no double standard.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 31):
It's funny how when valid points are made here people react by asking to not have opinions "imposed" on them or even go so far as to suggest that a thread get shut down. I said what I did in a respectful fashion, and last I checked don't need to contribute shots to participate in this forum.

I personally have no issue with what you said or how you said it; I'm not sure why anyone would, even if they disagree.

That said, can you address my response in Reply 26?

Quoting megatop412 (Reply 31):
If all it takes is pointing out a real valid example of what I've said that gets people upset, maybe it's too easy to strike a nerve here.

Often, I tend to agree, but it's sort of an unwritten rule here not to call out specific photos or photographers in public.

I personally have no issue being called out myself, as someone did for that photo where I forgot to check for dust spots....
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
cpd
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:54 am

If it weren't for the description, I'd have missed the new colours with the couple of shots mentioned above. (Sorry Cathay).

I think the topic here shows perhaps what is going wrong with plane spotting. It isn't spotting anymore, it has become professional spotting and the level of competitiveness has gone through the roof. The seriousness/passive aggressive nature of the replies here shows it too.

I wonder what might happen if hits weren't shown, and the front page merely only showed the most recently added image. Images wouldn't stay on the homepage for long, but it might get around the disputes. Unfortunately it would also be draconian.

Personally, the comments don't make me look at a photo, rather, the photo itself will prompt me to look at it. That's my own take as a viewer, since I don't photograph planes anymore (not even for my own site).


The other thing to remember too is that behind the photo or the user name, there is a real person there too - so at least try to be respectful.

[Edited 2015-11-03 18:02:03]
 
megatop412
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RE: Exaggerated Photo Comments

Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:02 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 32):
can you address my response in Reply 26?

I am happy to. You state that there is a parallel between the screening of the photos with the evaluation of the comments, and that is in fact implied by the terms/conditions quoted by Acontador. Much to the obvious consternation to some here, the example I cited is clear evidence that this is not always followed, which is no different than the inconsistency seen in screening photos. Fine, I get it, it's impossible to have everyone treating everything submitted the exact same way. I was just advocating to keep the subjectivity to a minimum.

But consider this- what does it say that I have one screener telling me not to impose my viewpoint on others(even going so far to invite me to leave this site to go create my own), while another screener in the same thread states "We have been truncating comments that are way too long or not very relevant to the photo", which directly supports that viewpoint?

I want it known that I intended no offense to anybody here. However, you can't put your photos in a public forum expecting nothing but praise and then say someone has 'poor form' if they offer a critique(as long as it is respectful), that is part of living in society with other people. I don't get what happened in this thread- it starts as a discussion about how exaggerated remarks can lead to inflated hit counts, then there's griping about how some people feel they're better than others, then people discuss their opinions about the remarks, I add my opinion, and suddenly I have several people taking offense with what I said because I actually cited a real example instead of talking out of my rear-end. I don't know. Maybe it's because I don't have a "respect rating" lol

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