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aircountry
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How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:54 am

I am looking for a way how to remove worst noise on very high ISO with low f number on camera and what setting do you use for night shot? I am looking similar like this.....


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Photo © John Magero


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Photo © Nicholas Young


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Photo © Nicholas Young


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Photo © Jason Wood


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Photo © Jason Wood


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Photo © Jason Wood


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Photo © Jason Wood


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Photo © John Magero


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Photo © John Magero


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Photo © Artyom Anikeev - Russian AviaPhoto Team


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Photo © Yang Qize


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Photo © Scott Arfin


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Photo © Scott Arfin



Do they use the panning shot or what setting to use? I need to learn it to use my new canon 70D from my old XSi

My question is will my canon 70D with 70-300 USM IS len work like this and how to do on photoshop to fix like this? My photoshop are CS5 and Lightroom 3.5

Thank you
 
waketurbulence
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RE:

Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:56 pm

Your camera/lens combination will almost assuredly not yield the results posted above. Scott Afrin is most likely shooting with a full frame sensor (Canon 5D/6D/1Dx) paired with the 135mm f/2 lens. I'm not sure if he is actually shooting at f/2 but probably close to it for maximum shutter speed.

With that said, processing is also a major factor. Noise reduction is heavily used along with very careful sharpening. Lightroom has decent noise reduction capabilities, and even better with the newer edition Lr5 or Lr6.

If you want to get into night action photography I'd recommend at least getting a lens that opens wider than f/4, a full frame camera, steady hands for panning, and good processing skills. It is not easy.
-Matt
 
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trevisan26
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:17 pm

There are some very very useful information in this topic. Check the posts os users vikkyvik and Kulverstukas
NR Help Please! (by kann123air Dec 10 2015 in Photography Feedback)
Cheers
 
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NZ107
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:07 pm

Full frame is a prerequisite for these shots. I highly doubt you could get the desired noise reduction from using a crop sensor. As you can see from my EK A380 image above, I shot that at ISO 8,000. With a 5D3, I can get away with it (just) as LR/PS noise reduction can get it down to a satisfactory level. Try on a crop sensor camera and the quality just won't be there to attempt to upload the shots.

LR5 onward have far better noise reduction ability than the earlier versions.
 
cpd
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RE:

Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:27 am

Quoting aircountry (Thread starter):
I am looking for a way how to remove worst noise on very high ISO with low f number on camera and what setting do you use for night shot? I am looking similar like this.....

All of those need a reasonable camera with low noise. For some of them, a good crop format camera might work if you know how to get the best from it. Otherwise, a 36x24mm will make it much easier.

Out of them all, the Jason Wood Qantas A380 with the lights motion blurring in the background and the Nicholas Young EK A380 shots should be the easiest ones to deal with in terms of editing. Those at least have some brightly lit details that in my experience tend to hide noise. It is the poorly lit areas of the image that can make editing difficult.

Those John Magero shots are just spectacular.

Other way is to avoid using high ISO if possible. Use slow shutter speeds like 1/10sec or lower, that avoids the high ISO noise in the first place, and the resulting image is easier to edit. Using an F/2.8 lens makes it easier too:

https://reheatimages.smugmug.com/CivilAviation/All-Civil-Aviation/i-Z5ZLfsx/1/L/d800e_DSC_9796_20130120-L.jpg

The 70-200mm F/2.8 is magic for that - use ISO3200 and F/2.8. The above was hand held. There were also some airport lights to help with ambient lighting, because in reality it was far darker than that.

At the extremes, this was really late at night, in total darkness with no other light around other than the lights of the plane itself:

https://reheatimages.smugmug.com/CivilAviation/All-Civil-Aviation/i-KmSvmwD/1/L/d800e_DSC_8523_20130108-L.jpg

That was ISO3200, 1/3sec (hand held), 150mm, 6600px wide original image. I did no noise reduction on that. Camera was a Nikon D800E.

In comparison, this is with a 200-400mm Zoom Nikkor and a 1.7x TC, at F/6.7, 550mm and ISO10,000. The shutter is 1/15sec:

https://reheatimages.smugmug.com/CivilAviation/All-Civil-Aviation/i-pdST53Q/5/L/DSC_7155_20120211-L.jpg

It's not anywhere near as clean. The camera was a Nikon D3s. Again, no special noise reduction done on that. So take that base and compare it with what a decent "DX" (16x24mm) format camera can do. The FX cameras are starting with a much higher standard to begin with, and even with those you can have a type of shot that is very difficult to get. Dark plane taking off, little ambient light to work with, dark background.

This was also one I wasn't happy with:

https://reheatimages.smugmug.com/CivilAviation/All-Civil-Aviation/i-6nBpbsB/5/L/DSC_0850_20110720-L.jpg

Cold, wind gusts, pouring rain, time constraints, heavy, bulky lens and trying to aim it through a tiny opening in a clear plastic barrier. ISO20,000, 210mm, F/4.5 Rain makes it more tricky, if you noise reduce that, then all the detail will be gone. The noise is really bad in the dark areas at the back, the grass, the jet base, etc.

All that said, an ISO10,000 with some reasonable ambient light gives a pretty clean image you can work on easily:

https://reheatimages.smugmug.com/CivilAviation/All-Civil-Aviation/i-NjFgnDB/5/L/DSC_1855_20111127-L.jpg

That was at about 7:50pm at night if I remember right (taken back in 2010). The version of that image that I had on a.net at the time needed very little editing, which was just as well as the noise reduction software at the time was not as good.

Your Canon 70D probably won't give you clean enough images to begin with, and your 70-300mm really needs to be an F/2.0 or F/2.8. Something like a 70-200mm F/2.8 would help you a lot, because you can use F/2.8 and not push the ISO on your camera to the levels where it gets really noisy. Along with that, you need to get good at panning shots using low shutter speeds. It's hard work. And make sure you get the exposure perfect in the camera. When you are at high ISO or otherwise photographing at night, you can't just drag the exposure slider in camera raw to make it brighter, that will expose lots of noise. You also need to try and frame the image as tightly as possible in the camera, avoid cropping the image down if at all possible. That will make getting rid of noise easier if you don't have to crop as much.

Then in Photoshop CS5, consider doing multiple layers and apply smart filters (the layer must be a smart layer to begin with) to the ones you want to apply noise reduction on, then put a mask on that layer and paint in the areas where you want noise reduction and those where you don't want it. You can use multiple noise reduction layers, each with different levels of noise reduction and using the layer mask, just paint in the noise reduction where you want it, or, alternatively, paint out the noise reduction in areas where you don't want it.

You can also take the image and copy it into a layer mask and use something like the find edges filter to help you mask in/out noise reduction. It's not perfect and you'll have to do your work - but it's a start.

It's a really long reply I know, but I'm bored today and hopefully it gives you some pointers on where to start. Looking at the images you've got on a.net already, you are pretty good already, so experiment a bit and see how you go. Perhaps you can try taking dusk photos at low shutter speeds with the camera you have, but not late at night photos when it is really dark.

I can remember ages ago one photographer who used to be on here did a fantastic shot of a Cessna Citation X at night using just a 1D Mk.III, he got it quite clean from that 10mp camera (ISO100-3200). I vaguely remember that it was low shutter speed that saved the day, because the lens was a 100-400mm Canon if I remember right. So perhaps experiment, see what you can do. If it doesn't work out, delete it and try again.

[Edited 2016-01-03 16:29:26]
 
vikkyvik
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RE:

Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:59 am

Quoting aircountry (Thread starter):
My question is will my canon 70D with 70-300 USM IS len work like this and how to do on photoshop to fix like this?

Assuming the 70D has a reasonably better sensor than the 50D, with practice you ought to be able to get A.net quality images up to ISO3200, I'd say. But it probably won't be easy.

Most of my high-ISO images here are taken with the 5D2, which, being full-frame, is easier. But I did get a few in with my old 50D. The highest was ISO2500:


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Photo © Vik S



However, that was also using an L-quality prime lens. The 70-300 IS USM is a decent lens, but not spectacular. Lack of sharpness from the lens will really hurt when it comes to using generous amounts of noise reduction.

I don't have any F/2.8 lenses (can't afford them   ), but others are absolutely correct that those wide-aperture lenses would be a huge help for low-light shooting.

Otherwise, it takes some practice, both shooting-wise and editing-wise, to figure out how to take and process high-ISO images. I've had two ISO6400 images accepted here, but they were not quick edits by any means!


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Photo © Vik S



Oh, and thanks for the post plug, Thiago.
 
aircountry
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:13 am

What about the Topaz DeNoise? I have it but mostly I use it for daytime to early evening. Sometime I use it for dark when the plane is not moving with normal setting as f-8 with ISO 100. I have many night shot in my database with normal setting.
 
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kulverstukas
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:57 pm

Quoting aircountry (Reply 6):
What about the Topaz DeNoise?

Personally, I tried a lot of denoizers but all of them just makes photo "soapy" and kill small details. As Thiago linked earlier, I get to conclusion that there is nothing better than moderate NR settings in LR, and then resizing in PS with "bicubic (smoother)" setting to eliminate grain and remaining noise.
 
cpd
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:55 am

Quoting aircountry (Reply 6):
What about the Topaz DeNoise?

Tried it, but my thoughts are really, meh...   I still have it, but never use it. I found it gave a very washed out/artificial look to the image. Probably exactly as Kulverstukas is suggesting.

Lightroom also has good noise-reduction built in. And I think the standard noise reduction in Camera Raw on Photoshop CS5 gave better results than Topaz, and if that wasn't appropriate, you could always do your own work with multiple layers, layer masks and the like.
 
Stealthz
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:23 pm

Quoting aircountry (Reply 6):
Sometime I use it for dark when the plane is not moving with normal setting as f-8 with ISO 100.

If you are shooting in the dark at f8 and ISO 100 then the noise (and I can only shudder at how bad it might be) would be from severe underexposure.(unless you are shooting tripod mounted time exposures)
An adjustment to your shooting technique will reduce the noise much more than and post processing or software.
My suggestion is you do some reading on exposure technique or get some basic photographic training.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:23 pm

Quoting cpd (Reply 8):
standard noise reduction in Camera Raw on Photoshop CS5

That's what I've used for all my shots that need general NR. Adobe Camera RAW for CS5 and now CC.

Its noise reducing functions are quite good, in my opinion.

I'm guessing LR uses the same Camera RAW engine, but I don't know.
 
cpd
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:45 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):

I'm guessing LR uses the same Camera RAW engine, but I don't know.

It's been a while since I used Lightroom, but that was my understanding too. The Adobe software is now good enough that you don't need to bother with other addon plugins, as much as that may irritate the addon software developers.
 
yousaf465
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RE: How To Remove The Noisy From Very High ISO?

Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:14 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10):

yes the sliders are same in camera raw and lightroom.

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