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PiedmontINT
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Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:06 am

Hi all, I have a couple of extra shots I found before our trip to Italy this summer. These shots were all in CLE on a fairly nasty overcast day (seems like everytime I try to do a little spotting its cloudy and the light sucks...) and wanted to get a little CC on a few shots. I was wondering about the motive as well on the shots where I'm closer up on the tug and the rampers. I know the light is bad in #1 and tried my best to play with the levels and contrast in CS4 but have seen some overcast shots in the database so I figured I'd try my luck.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5204032616_34d64596ec_o.jpg

These two are the ones I have the most questions about motive. I wasn't sure if it's a no-no to have faces in the shot (even though I think it adds to #3 as the ramper clearly saw me lol) and if they are too cluttered with equipment and people, etc.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5203434477_66e62f1991_o.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5242/5204032590_deaf3ba0af_b.jpg
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:40 am

#3 is a definite motive rejection as part of the front gear is blocked.
Vahroone
 
virgin777
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:45 am

Yes , i suspect its the tug to be honest .

1 : Level & tug ?
2 : Tug & winglet.
3 : Too much clutter , and the guy ?

just my take anyway .

Cheers
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Tugs can be acceptable, but can't be the main subject (exceptions do exist though)

This one was accepted with the tug still attached:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Johnny Kristensen



Pic 1 could be acceptable if the tug doesn't block even the most miniscule part of the aircraft which looks to be borderline blocking the wing.

Pic 2 has the tug as main subject

Pic 3 is a no no, all kinds of stuff cluttering the image and blocking the aircraft.
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Spiderguy252
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:54 pm

Talking about clutter, this one seems to have got through as well. I wonder what the exact standards are. I asked about it in another thread, but got no reply.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mats Lundberg

Vahroone
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:19 pm

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 4):
this one seems to have got through as well

Hey hey, no attacking my very good friend Mats  

Well as you can see that photo was added 6 years ago, rules might have been different then, and there has always been some exceptions regarding several criteria when it comes to night shots.
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Spiderguy252
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:43 pm

Quoting johnkrist (Reply 5):
Hey hey, no attacking my very good friend Mats  

If that was an 'attack', I'm surprised if he isn't immune to them already. 

Can you elaborate on those exceptions wrt night shots? Never heard of that before.
Vahroone
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:52 pm

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 6):
Can you elaborate on those exceptions wrt night shots? Never heard of that before.

No exceptions for night shots. John is right, the photo was added over six years ago when standards were a bit different. Get in your time machine, go back to 2003-2004, and you can upload your shots with obstructions  

To the OP's question, 2 & 3 are no-goes, and 1 is borderline for motive, given you address the other issues.
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:34 pm

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 6):
Can you elaborate on those exceptions wrt night shots?

Well, DARK hehe
And grain/noise that are allowed to be a 99.7% perfect and not 100% like daytime shots  
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:27 pm

Quoting johnkrist (Reply 8):
Well, DARK hehe
And grain/noise that are allowed to be a 99.7% perfect and not 100% like daytime shots

Sorry, missed the part where you said several criteria. My reference to no exceptions was for blockage. Yes, there is some leniency towards things like noise when dealing low-light shots.
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:21 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I knew the second and third were most likely to be no-goes anyway.

Quoting dlowwa (Reply 7):
1 is borderline for motive, given you address the other issues.

Just curious, other than level (which I knew for sure going in, I just gave this one a quick once over in Camera Raw anyway) what other issues would you see that I could fix to possibly get it up to par for uploading?
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:08 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 10):
Just curious, other than level (which I knew for sure going in, I just gave this one a quick once over in Camera Raw anyway) what other issues would you see that I could fix to possibly get it up to par for uploading?

Two most obvious things are the level and the size. Needs a lot of CCW rotation, and is well under the minimum for size on the vertical. Other than that, maybe a touch more contrast, but that's about all I can see.
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:15 am

Quoting dlowwa (Reply 11):
Two most obvious things are the level and the size. Needs a lot of CCW rotation, and is well under the minimum for size on the vertical. Other than that, maybe a touch more contrast, but that's about all I can see.

Thanks for the help everyone, here is the final product as it its the queue. I upped the contrast a bit and did some CCW. I resized it as well to 1314x800. if you see anything else that sticks out that I should fix please let me know!

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4154/5208140013_1070f9ccbe_o.jpg
 
dazbo5
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:30 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 12):
if you see anything else that sticks out that I should fix please let me know!

It looks a wee bit low in the frame for me, i'd probbly position the aircraft slightly higher.

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
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JohnKrist
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:56 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 12):
I resized it as well to 1314x800

That's a size rejection right there. And I would recommend 1024 width, max 1200 and 1200 shots are harder to get in the DB. Look at the rejction guide for acceptable sizes Photos->Upload your photos->Airliners.net rejection guide.
Also needs a lot more CCW, look at the line of buildings in the background and level from that.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:00 am

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 14):
That's a size rejection right there.

  

Quoting JohnKrist (Reply 14):
Also needs a lot more CCW

  

I mentioned both of these as being problems earlier, but neither have been fixed.
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:57 am

Okay, so I did some more CCW and got the grid out and leveled off of the tug and the buildings in the background and they are perfectly level as far as I can tell. I took that shot from a bit of a weird angle which doesn't really help matters.

But regarding the size requirements.. According to the upload guide it says the minimum size is 1000 x 667. I did cut it down to 1200 wide but due to the width of the wings and avoiding dead space at the top and bottom of the frame it is wide but not very tall. The final resolution on this one is now 1200 x 676, barely squeaking by the minimum height. Besides being harder to get accepted, what exactly was wrong with 1314 x 800? I'm really just curious is all, not trying to pick a fight by any means! I know my image isn't the standard proportions but was well within the resolution requirements as stated in the upload guide.

Thanks for your help everyone.. I suck at photoshopping unfortunately and I am trying to improve so all feedback and help has been greatly appreciated!

edit: final image in last post

[Edited 2010-11-29 03:51:13]
 
dazbo5
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:23 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 16):
what exactly was wrong

It needs to be at, or very close to, the size ratio of 3:2 or 4:3, ie 1024x683 or 1200x800 etc.

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:43 am

Quoting dazbo5 (Reply 17):
It needs to be at, or very close to, the size ratio of 3:2 or 4:3, ie 1024x683 or 1200x800 etc.

Ah, I completely missed that in the upload guide.. I guess I'll go back to the original and not crop as much out of the top and bottom and leave a little dead space to get it to the proper proportions. And I'll replace the one I just uploaded in my previous msg. The new one is now 1200 x 800 as well. Thanks for the heads up on that, I can't believe I missed that   

edit to add final image.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5168/5217629714_3353e533c2_o.jpg

[Edited 2010-11-29 04:30:18]
 
dlowwa
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:47 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 16):
Besides being harder to get accepted, what exactly was wrong with 1314 x 800?

As Darren has mentioned, it is not within the allowable 3x2 - 4x3 range. At 1314 pix wide, the minimum height would be 876 to fit the 3x2 ratio (maximum would then be 986 for the 4x3 ratio). The size on your latest attempt is not even close to the minimum. At 1200 wide, 800 is the minimum. 667 is the minimum if your image is 1000 wide, which yours is not.
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:11 pm

Well unfortunately it was a reject, but for soft which seem a little surprising. I gave it a little bit more USM to see if that helps but I am a bit afraid to push it too far into oversharp territory.

Heres the latest attempt:

https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/i1291673222.6061xsi_clev_mil_ven042_4_2.jpg
 
virgin777
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:02 am

Getting there , but i think you'll still get hit for not being level 

looks to need 0.8(ish) of CCW

good luck
 
PiedmontINT
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RE: Pre-Screening - Motive? (PiedmontINT)

Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:48 pm

Quoting virgin777 (Reply 21):
looks to need 0.8(ish) of CCW

Well I tried with 0.8 CCW (I actually forgot all about arbitrary rotation, still working on learning Photoshop..) and it seemed to be too much. The wings look more level, but then everything else isn't. In the last attempt I used the grid and based level off of the rear corner of the tug since that is the most vertical object in the shot that isn't in the background. I got it completely vertical and the wings were still a wee bit off, but I think its an optical illusion just from the weird angle I took this shot. I gave it 0.35 CCW and that seems to be a decent compromise for level in that the tug is still pretty close to vertical and the wings look a bit straighter.

If it helps the only reject reason was for Soft so I dont know if level was borderline or an issue at all or what. Also could anyone comment on the sharpness? My monitor is decent, but not spectacular by any means so I am a bit hesitant to try to push the sharpness too far and end up oversharpening.

Life would just be so much easier if when I have time to get to a major airport to go shooting I didn't have to always fight crappy light and limited time since usually I have to drag someone else along who doesn't necessarily want to be there lol..

https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/big/ready/e1291761727.0358xsi_clev_mil_ven042_4_3.jpg

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