henkita217
Topic Author
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 pm

Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:14 am

Hi all,

It's been awhile.. hope everyone is all well.

Just wanted to get your feedback on the following image..

I shot the frame as per the photo, so not much cropping was done to it. Given that fact, I thought it may have a chance to be uploaded at the high resolution, but I guess not...



Link: https://www.airliners.net/procphotos/..._01-1400_indonesiaairasia_a322.jpg

It was rejected Quality, Grainy & Soft, with a personal message saying the quality isn't there for 1400x.

I am struggling to see the soft rejection though. The wings sharpness looked ok, if anything, I was worried it might be too sharp. What are your thoughts on this one? Resize it down to 1280/1200x? I would really like this image to be accepted because it was quite unique to photograph the 4 mountains in the frame.  

Also, just wanted to feedback with me maybe appealing the following for over sharpening.



Link: https://www.airliners.net/procphotos/...1280_cathaypacificairways_a343.jpg

With sharpening a subjective matter, I thought it looked alright in my screen.

Cheers,
Hendra

EDIT: Unsure why the photo link above is not working...

[Edited 2014-07-18 17:15:40]
www.hendrabarnesimages.com
 
mjgbtv
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:09 am

Hi Hendra,

Welcome back!

I would definitely agree that the wing shot is grainy, but I can't see Soft either. As you say, if anything it could be oversharpened. I don't really see where the overall quality is lacking, so if the noise and sharpening can be addressed it might work at 1400. I seldom try that size, though, so I am not the best judge.

I guess I can see a few jaggy spots on the A340, but overall it seems pretty good to me. I'm not sure if your chances would be good with an appeal, though. I would probably just do a quick edit and re-submit.
 
sunandan
Editor
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:58 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:21 am

Nice window-view shot Hendra! Would be great to see this one accepted. I agree with the grainy rejection, but can't see the soft either. I would try that shot at 1200.
You can either work for a living, or you can fly airplanes. I'd rather fly!
 
henkita217
Topic Author
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:46 am

Thank you greatly for the feedbacks Marty and Sunandan.

Based on that, I believe the soft was either not correctly applied, or the screener sees something soft whilst us 3 could not. I hope it isn't the latter.

Anyway, I've done 2 quick edits.

One is based on the 1400px again, as I had a saved point there/then, so I thought I would give it another crack with a milder NR applied to control the grain.



If the link to the photo does not work, please click here and "download" the original: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3jm6cv1ottgv0w/PK-AZF_01v2-1400_IndonesiaAirAsia_A322.jpg

And the second edit was resized down to 1280px.



If the link to the photo does not work, please click here and "download" the original: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1u9cy4sudud478l/PK-AZF_01v3-1280_IndonesiaAirAsia_A322.jpg

EDIT: Sorry about the issues with linking. What am I doing wrong, I wonder.
Also, what's the best way to direct link a photo to here, so you guys can assess the photo?

Thanks,
Hendra

[Edited 2014-07-19 03:48:00]
www.hendrabarnesimages.com
 
mjgbtv
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:56 am

They both still look a bit grainy and oversharpened to me.

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 3):
Also, what's the best way to direct link a photo to here, so you guys can assess the photo?

If you mean an externally hosted image I am not sure. I do not use any image hosting sites.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12456
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:19 am

Quoting henkita217 (Thread starter):
It was rejected Quality, Grainy & Soft, with a personal message saying the quality isn't there for 1400x.
Quoting henkita217 (Thread starter):
I am struggling to see the soft rejection though. The wings sharpness looked ok, if anything, I was worried it might be too sharp.

It looks rather oversharpened to me. But it looks heavily sharpened in general, which is probably why you got the Quality rejection, saying it'd be better smaller. Nevertheless, I don't think Soft is accurate at all.

There's definitely some grain showing, especially in the shadow at bottom left.

Quoting henkita217 (Thread starter):
Also, just wanted to feedback with me maybe appealing the following for over sharpening.

Ha, don't know what to say - there's some minor oversharpening on the wing, but other than that, looks fine.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
henkita217
Topic Author
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:52 am

Thanks Vik!!
I've decided to appeal the oversharpened rejection after your support and Marty's and a few others.  

I'll put some effort on the wing view again (from scratch) another time.

Thanks again for your help guys!!
www.hendrabarnesimages.com
 
henkita217
Topic Author
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:29 am

G'day Gents,

Another round of screening to which I am pretty satisfied with the score I got.  

Just 2 photos that I'd like to get a second opinion on..

1/ How would you level this should be basic photo/composition, in which, I am somehow struggling to get right, let alone master.

https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/rejections/big/20140728_a1405689598.7081g-stbf_01-1300_britishairways_b77w.jpg

^ I level most photos taken here using the yellow taxiway, as it gives the best "level" feeling to the overall photo. However, in this instance, I levelled the photo based on the tower, in which the photo was rejected for CW rotation. How far am I off by?

2/ Rejected for flat, heat hazed, quality, oversharpened and contrast.

https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/rejections/big/20140727_z1405690972.7252hz-ak12_09-1280_saudiarabianairlines_b77w.jpg

Firstly, I thought the photo was workable, as in, the heat haze was tolerable. Is it really that bad?
As for the contrast/flat, I think the hazyness in Jakarta is what making the photo looked flat. I honestly thought contrast looked ok.

Anyway, I look forward to your feedbacks.

Regards,
Hendra
www.hendrabarnesimages.com
 
angad84
Posts: 2008
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:28 am

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 7):
^ I level most photos taken here using the yellow taxiway, as it gives the best "level" feeling to the overall photo. However, in this instance, I levelled the photo based on the tower, in which the photo was rejected for CW rotation. How far am I off by?

Quite far off. Even with the tower as reference it looks like it needs a solid bit of CW rotation.

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 7):
Firstly, I thought the photo was workable, as in, the heat haze was tolerable. Is it really that bad?

Heat haze is not bad in this one, unless I've missed a spot somewhere. It would certainly work better at a lower size though.

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 7):
As for the contrast/flat, I think the hazyness in Jakarta is what making the photo looked flat. I honestly thought contrast looked ok.

Nah, even in the downsized version displayed in the forums the image looks very washed out. I'm struggling to find a single pure black pixel, everything is shades of grey. Exposure is fine, you just need to sort out the black point. All in all, this photo shouldn't take much work to get it acceptable.

Great to see the other shots that made it through today, some interesting light in there!

Cheers
A
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12456
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:50 pm

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 7):

^ I level most photos taken here using the yellow taxiway, as it gives the best "level" feeling to the overall photo. However, in this instance, I levelled the photo based on the tower, in which the photo was rejected for CW rotation. How far am I off by?
Quoting angad84 (Reply 8):
Quite far off. Even with the tower as reference it looks like it needs a solid bit of CW rotation.

Really? Interesting - looks fine to me. And measuring the tower against the side of the window, it looks perfectly vertical. I think the sloped airplane against the tower makes it look off-level.

I would be tempted to appeal that one. If I were to rework it, I probably wouldn't give it any more than 0.25 degrees CW.

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 7):
Firstly, I thought the photo was workable, as in, the heat haze was tolerable. Is it really that bad?
As for the contrast/flat, I think the hazyness in Jakarta is what making the photo looked flat. I honestly thought contrast looked ok.

There has been worse accepted recently, if that's anything to go by (probably not   ). Anyway, I agree with Angad, better to submit at a smaller size. Should be fine with regard to heat haze.

Contrast is certainly low. There may be haze, but unfortunately you can't really tell that by looking at the photo. So as Angad said, bring the black point up.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
henkita217
Topic Author
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:13 pm

Thanking you both as always, Angad and Vik.

Just out of curiosity Angad, what are you using to help you based the levelling on the BA shot? With level rejections given often with that composition, it makes avoid uploading that kind of photo.

I will try to appeal it as I also believe the level was fine.

Will rework the Saudia. Happy to hear the heat haze is within tolerance.

Cheers,
Hendra
www.hendrabarnesimages.com
 
angad84
Posts: 2008
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:13 am

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 10):
Just out of curiosity Angad, what are you using to help you based the levelling on the BA shot?

The ATC tower. Motion blur from the panning isn't helping, but it definitely feels unlevel to me.

Cheers
Angad
 
User avatar
gonzalu
Screener
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:17 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:20 pm

If this helps... the tower is technically level but appears visually CCW with need for some CW. I have been told on level rejections that sometimes the feel wins over the technical correctness.

Manny Gonzalez, Thrust Images.
 
henkita217
Topic Author
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:14 am

Hi Manny,

What you've done is a great help actually, thank you!!

In the past, we have always been "taught" by screeners to use center verticals to level a photo etc.. However, as per your experience/advise, sometimes the feel wins over technically correct. So it seem that the level area, may have some grey areas within it, if you have two ways to go about it.

I would like to know, what is the priority for a screener to judge level? I mean, do some screeners use the same approach; technically correct for most, but "feel level" for some photos? What I'm saying is, had the photo above been screened by another screener who judges level 'differently', would my photo got accepted? If so, that tells me it is a matter of luck of the draw in which screener you get.

My photo isn't even the most challenging to level (it should be simple), but obviously I am having issues with this composition and need to change my ways in levelling such photo in the future.

To recap, the formula for the photo above and any photos with similar Tower composition needs to be: center vertically spot on + 0.25 degrees of CW (as Vik suggested)?

Regards,
Hendra Barnes
www.hendrabarnesimages.com
 
aussie18
Screener
Posts: 1751
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:31 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:04 pm

Hendra,

Being familiar with the location and having many shots in database with the same backdrop, I always use the tower or verticals for levelling especially with shots taken from beach spotting location like the container cranes, refinery buildings and even the radar dome tower.

When I screen or edit I usually look for the best vertical level reference to use, Sometimes it can be hard with so many vertical references to use or look at so judgement can fall back to what feels level for the overall shot composition.

If I screened the BA shot I would of HQ'd it with comment for level but to me personally it looks level.

Cheers Mark.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12456
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 13):
I would like to know, what is the priority for a screener to judge level? I mean, do some screeners use the same approach; technically correct for most, but "feel level" for some photos? What I'm saying is, had the photo above been screened by another screener who judges level 'differently', would my photo got accepted? If so, that tells me it is a matter of luck of the draw in which screener you get.

Basically, if you can use the verticals to level, and the photo feels level, then it'll be fine. If you use the verticals, but it feels maybe a bit off, you'll probably still be fine, since it's technically level. If you use the verticals, but it still feels significantly off-level, then it should be rejected.

I would put yours in the 2nd category - technically level but feels slightly off.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
henkita217
Topic Author
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:39 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:57 am

Dear Mark & Vik,

Thank you for the extensive reply in explaining the level dissection a little bit more.

The BA photo has been appealed and has stayed there now for a number of days. I believe this has to do with the recent email issues, from what I've read in another thread.

On a related/side note, what about the FedEx photo below, in which I'm sure you can agree that the tower would be used primarily to judge the level of the photo, right?

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa354/menanaandmika/checkforlevel_006.jpg

Everything is asimilar minus the taxiway/runway. I can't understand why "technically correct" cannot be applied to this composition.

Cheers,
Hendra
www.hendrabarnesimages.com
 
aussie18
Screener
Posts: 1751
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:31 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:44 am

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 16):
The BA photo has been appealed and has stayed there now for a number of days. I believe this has to do with the recent email issues, from what I've read in another thread.

That is correct Hendra, It will take a bit longer to screen due to issue with emailing system.

As for the FedEx that is correct, If the tower is visible than that would be reference for levelling, One thing I find that has personally helped me with uploading especially with difficult shots in relation to levelling is to include a personal message as to the levelling reference chosen for the shot.


Cheers Mark
 
angad84
Posts: 2008
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

RE: Pre/Post Screening: Hendra

Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:39 pm

Quoting henkita217 (Reply 16):
Everything is asimilar minus the taxiway/runway. I can't understand why "technically correct" cannot be applied to this composition.

I hate to be that guy, but it feels off-level.

Please don't hurt me.

Cheers
Angad

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos