JKPhotos
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Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:06 am

Hi guys,

by coincidence I came across this nice shot
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Miguel Martin Cordeiro - Iberian Spotters



It reminded me of a more or less similar shot I took a while a go. Until now I did not think about uploading, as I though that It would be a motive rejection anyway, but this made me rethink.
https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/b...dy/b1405936953.687img_8412anet.jpg

Worth a try?
Or is it the crucial difference that on the AI shot the whole fuselage is visible, whereas mine shows only a part of it?

Thanks for your opinions.

Julien
 
angad84
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:20 pm

I would try it - it's a nice shot.

Cheers
Angad
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Thread starter):
Or is it the crucial difference that on the AI shot the whole fuselage is visible, whereas mine shows only a part of it?

The crucial difference is actually that in the AI shot, the jetway is on the opposite side of the aircraft, while in yours, it's blocking the visible side.

Of course, this leads to the somewhat strange point that if you cropped the jetway out, yours would be OK for motive.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:28 pm

Hi Angad, hi Vik,

thanks for your replies.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 2):
Of course, this leads to the somewhat strange point that if you cropped the jetway out, yours would be OK for motive.

Thanks for the clarfication. The problem is that I can't crop the jetway without cropping the front gear,too (even with a 4:3 ratio). I tried to do that and it looks rather odd.
So it has to stay in my personal collection.

Julien
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 3):
Thanks for the clarfication. The problem is that I can't crop the jetway without cropping the front gear,too (even with a 4:3 ratio). I tried to do that and it looks rather odd.

Yeah, I figured as much. Just thought I'd point it out in case you figured out a way to do it.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
mjgbtv
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:39 pm

I would give it a try too. The reference image does not seem to follow the letter of the obstruction rules either.
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:11 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):

Yeah, I figured as much. Just thought I'd point it out in case you figured out a way to do it.


Absolutely....that's what I was looking forward to.  
Quoting mjgbtv (Reply 5):

I would give it a try too. The reference image does not seem to follow the letter of the obstruction rules either.

Well that's why I was surprised, but pleasently surprised as I think it is a nice shot.
I hope that using it as a reference won't cause any problems, though.

I might try perhaps a tighter crop for my shot.

[Edited 2014-07-21 14:14:05]

[Edited 2014-07-21 14:14:24]
 
mjgbtv
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:58 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 6):
I hope that using it as a reference won't cause any problems, though.

I doubt it. I have seen others as well, so I believe that there is just some flexibility with obstructions.
 
angad84
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:42 am

Quoting mjgbtv (Reply 7):
so I believe that there is just some flexibility with obstructions.

There is a new flexibility to the obstruction rule (a welcome change, IMO) which makes this shot worth trying as-is.

Cheers
Angad
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:40 am

Okay, you guys are starting to convince me  

But I did have some struggles with sharpening the shot. Do you think it is okay as it is (sharpening-wise)?
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:33 pm

Just to complete this thread, after you guys encouraged me I decided to try it and leave it in the queue..

But (as I expected more or less) it was rejected:
"jetway is blocking, also a blue cast" motiv-colour-personal

Well it was worth a try, still I can understand the rejection.

So everything is fine!
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting angad84 (Reply 8):
Quoting mjgbtv (Reply 7):
so I believe that there is just some flexibility with obstructions.

There is a new flexibility to the obstruction rule (a welcome change, IMO) which makes this shot worth trying as-is.
Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 10):

But (as I expected more or less) it was rejected:
"jetway is blocking, also a blue cast" motiv-colour-personal

For reference, I believe these are the relevant updated rules:

Photos with distracting or obstructing objects in the foreground (this is especially true for gate shots which are very difficult to get accepted due to their common nature and the large amount of equipment which usually surrounds the aircraft). Ramp Vehicles (including tugs, loaders, baggage carts, etc...) are allowed to block part of the aircraft as long as they are: [1] not blocking engines or wheels (exception: tugs are allowed to block engines/wheels if towing aircraft, and ground crew are allowed to block any part if not too prominent, which is at our discretion) [2] below the window line [3] part of active operations (this amendment is meant to exclude any aircraft parked with equipment in front of it. 'Active operations' is meant to include those aircraft actively loading or unloading.).

and

Jetways will in most cases lead to a motive rejection if blocking any part of the side of the aircraft facing the photographer. For head-on shots, they are not allowed to block the engine/gear or a significant portion of aircraft if a wider view. Small blockage of the wing will be allowed for tighter crops. As with other general types of obstructions, jetways are allowed to block the aircraft if the image is air-to-ground.

The updates to the Motive rules did not change the jetway obstruction rejection, to my knowledge.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
angad84
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:35 am

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 10):
But (as I expected more or less) it was rejected:
"jetway is blocking, also a blue cast" motiv-colour-personal

Bummer. Are you going to try again with a crop?

Cheers
Angad
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:31 am

Quoting angad84 (Reply 12):
Bummer. Are you going to try again with a crop?

Cheers
Angad

Hi Angad,

No. I can't crop the jetway out without cutting parts of the airplane like the front gear..
I tried to do so, but it looks rather odd.

Perhaps a very tight crop could work but then I am getting quality problems.

Julien
 
angad84
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:56 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 13):

Hi Angad,

No. I can't crop the jetway out without cutting parts of the airplane like the front gear..
I tried to do so, but it looks rather odd.

Perhaps a very tight crop could work but then I am getting quality problems.

Julien

Oh well. Such is life.

Cheers
A
 
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alevik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:55 pm

I can't see the image anymore so not sure about motive.

Pete

[Edited 2014-07-30 11:56:24]

[Edited 2014-07-30 11:56:54]
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:34 pm

Hi Pete,

here is the image:
https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...29_b1405936953.687img_8412anet.jpg

I would still be interested in your thoughts, if you don't mind.

Julien
 
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alevik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:36 pm

Hmmmm, yeah the jetway blocking on the side facing the camera is technically a motive rejection. The reference image is not, because the obstruction is on the opposite side.

Personally, this is one where some leeway could be applied as the jetway is not obstructing in the main area of focus which is the nose/titles on the nose. The obstruction is no more objectionable than the reference image *subjectively*. I would argue for acceptance (assuming the slight blue/cyan cast is adjusted), but we walk a fine line where some will call us out for inconsistency.

I'd appeal it, the HS hopefully can discuss. If the motive rejection gets overturned but colour upheld you can re-upload with colour adjustment.

Pete
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting alevik (Reply 17):
Personally, this is one where some leeway could be applied as the jetway is not obstructing in the main area of focus which is the nose/titles on the nose.

Interesting. Would you not consider the "LAN" titles to be part of the focus?

I'm just asking out of curiosity. I'd be happy for the image to be added, though you're right, I'm sure it will lead to some contention.

By the way, Julien, I'd also crop closer in on the left.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
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alevik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:56 am

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 18):
Interesting. Would you not consider the "LAN" titles to be part of the focus?

I just find the obstruction not that objectionable, it doesn't detract from the overall image, the titles at the nose are the interesting part. There's only a small percentage obstructed.
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
 
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DL747
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:52 am

Hi,

I would agree with Pete here, I think that the jetway is not a major obstruction and is not distracting from the image. I'm not sure why folks would object to this image being added, I quite like it!  
Quoting alevik (Reply 17):
we walk a fine line where some will call us out for inconsistency.

Well, I don't think there would be too much controversy with this one. I will be up front here, I have noticed and complained about inconsistency from time to time. However, the issue isn't really with my images, they all seem consistent and I even agree with the majority of the rejections. What I dislike (although I do understand) is that some images are rejected with obvious flaws not being noted, while some others are rejected (in my opinion) a bit harshly. I don't want to upset anyone, and I would like to state that I don't have an issue personally with any of the screeners, I just think that the inconsistency issue that rears its head every now and again is a bit bothersome.

Best regards,

John
Hey, thanks for stopping by! My photos can be found here: https://www.airliners.net/search?user=17 ... lay=detail
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:30 am

Quoting alevik (Reply 19):

I just find the obstruction not that objectionable, it doesn't detract from the overall image, the titles at the nose are the interesting part. There's only a small percentage obstructed.

Gotcha. Thanks Pete.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:52 am

Hi,

first thank you all for your support!

Quoting alevik (Reply 17):
Personally, this is one where some leeway could be applied as the jetway is not obstructing in the main area of focus which is the nose/titles on the nose. The obstruction is no more objectionable than the reference image *subjectively*. I would argue for acceptance (assuming the slight blue/cyan cast is adjusted), but we walk a fine line where some will call us out for inconsistency.

I'd appeal it, the HS hopefully can discuss. If the motive rejection gets overturned but colour upheld you can re-upload with colour adjustment.

Thanks a lot for your valuable input, Pete.
I think in such cases it is always very subjective what is a minor obstruction and what's not. It'll always depend on the compostion itself and the one who views it.
I thought that it is just a minor obstruction as well and thanks to your encouraging words I will appeal it. We'll see what happens. Good to know that I will have some support! Thanks.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 18):
By the way, Julien, I'd also crop closer in on the left.

Normally I do agree with you, Vik. But upon editing I was afraid that it would put the jetway more in focus of the image so I decided to give it a bit more leeway than I normally would. I thought it would give a more balanced feeling overall.

Julien
 
JKPhotos
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:32 pm

Finally the appeal has been viewed, unfortunately it has been upheld.

The fact that it was one of 100 appeals in the queue certainly did not help in a case like mine. .


I did not get any email (but that is normal, it has been like this for more than 2 years in my case) so all I can read:
"motiv colourbadpersonal"
Can't tell what the personal message is.

Thanks for all your support & encouragment, though.

I am actually a bit dissapointed, but that's life. Haven't been lucky with screening lately, for example this was rejected for level and I cannot tell why (the horizon is level, the big lamp posts are vertical)...
https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...3_b1406409092.5214img_0724anet.jpg
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Pre Screening Motive

Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:23 pm

Quoting JKPhotos (Reply 23):
Haven't been lucky with screening lately, for example this was rejected for level and I cannot tell why (the horizon is level, the big lamp posts are vertical)...

I would appeal that. Looks perfectly fine.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".

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