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MaxiAir
Topic Author
Posts: 316
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:32 pm

Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:55 pm

Hi together,

I today had a rejection, I'm not really sure about....
I have had a picture accepted, what was edited very similar and taken not so far apart.
-> I know, this doesn't mean a lot...
Usually I either understand immediately, what they don't like about it, or I search and look on it, until I finally can see it, but I'm no so sure about this one, especially a comment included in the email made me think, it may not be my fault:
"Please note:
These photos were screened by a screener-in-training. If you have any
objections please do not hesitate to use the appeal function linked to
lower down. Thank you for your patience and understanding."


It's about this picture
https://www.airliners.net/addphotos/r...1429136316.3845img_2136_1200_b.jpg

The other picture in question is this one:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Eurowings/Airbus-A320-214/2624769/L

Am I right to say, that it's not over sharpened ? Because thats the only reason, why they rejected it..

Thanks for your help

[Edited 2015-04-22 16:18:39]
 
Bogac
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:26 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:31 am

I am sure that is the reason but I see jaggies at the back of the wings and at the tail and back end of the tail wings. And there's a visible white halo surrounding these.

I am a noob in these matters though. My opinion should not be counted.  
 
310815
Posts: 1039
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:03 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:32 am

Hi,

unfortunately both shots are oversharpened, clearly visible on the titles and especially the Eurowings shot is particularly oversharpened.
You won't get the same results by appling the same settings to every shot, even if shot on the same day. Sometimes a shot might just need 150% 0,2 USM while another might need 300% 0,2 USM from the same day. Not every original is as sharp as the other and sharpening might also differ from the livery.

to the remark: Screeners-in-training are generally still experienced a-net photographers, so they do have quite some general experience in things like sharpening.

Julien
 
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Joshu
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RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:37 pm

Hey there!

I am most likely the "screener in training" since I believe I am the only one. Another screener flagged it as oversharpened and I agreed.

Quoting Bogac (Reply 1):

I am sure that is the reason but I see jaggies at the back of the wings and at the tail and back end of the tail wings. And there's a visible white halo surrounding these.

This is exactly what I noticed when I decided that the image was oversharpened.
 
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MaxiAir
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RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:23 pm

OK, thanks to all replies! I appreciate your feedback! I'm still quite inexperienced, and I need to admit I didn't see the halos, now, that I know, what jaggies are, (needed to google that - shame on me    ) - I can spot them! I try to improve my skills further to not bother you with such bad shots again    ! Thanks again!
 
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Joshu
Posts: 472
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RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:32 pm

Thanks! It isn't a bad shot - just has room for improvement.
 
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alevik
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RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting MaxiAir (Reply 4):
I didn't see the halos,

As with anything in screening, once you screen enough (I am around 170,000 images now) you pick things up easier. Dust spots, cloning, halos, etc.

Halos I can see on the Luftwaffe but not the Eurowings. Can be caused by overuse of the shadow/highlight tool (I always suggest to never touch that tool - it should not be required) or in Nikon cameras having the Active D Lighting function turned on.

Pete
 
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MaxiAir
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Posts: 316
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RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:08 am

Quoting alevik (Reply 6):
As with anything in screening, once you screen enough (I am around 170,000 images now) you pick things up easier. Dust spots, cloning, halos, etc.

Halos I can see on the Luftwaffe but not the Eurowings. Can be caused by overuse of the shadow/highlight tool (I always suggest to never touch that tool - it should not be required) or in Nikon cameras having the Active D Lighting function turned on.

I have a Canon EOS 70D   - so no Nikon toy Lighting function  

I'm using Camera Raw and Photoshop to edit my pictures and I haven't edited anywhere near 170.000 images! (Wow!)

I do use the "shadow/highlight"-tool in Camera raw, so this might be the problem...., so I'll try to improve this point as well.

Oh, three sentences started with "I" - just talking about myself 

Thanks for all helpful advice!
 
dendrobatid
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:40 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:37 am

Sharpening is the most difficult thing to get right but we see an awful lot of good images that have been spoiled by either use of shadow/highlight or Nikon Active D. Perhaps there is a place for them in other photography but aircraft seem to be the worst subject for them and as Pete suggests, they are best just not used at all. Mastering the subtle use of the curve is far more effective and much less likely to cause problems. Bear in mind that shadows are perfectly natural, removing them is not.

Never found a better tutorial than this :-
http://www.thegoldenmean.com/technique/curves1.html

Rather surprised to see JKPhotos suggesting USM....

When I started this digital photography (it might catch on) I really struggled with getting sharpening right when using USM and I had an awful lot of rejections but since I started using Smart Sharpen, I find it very easy to get right and in one go. USM is actually based on a technique from the very early days of photography and whilst I have not got a clue about the technicalities of Smart Sharpen, they are far more refined. The basic is very simple and the advanced allows you to reduce sharpening in the highlights or shadows. I use it to remove sharpening from the shadows (where any noise is likely to be) Note that I have also deselected the sky before sharpening too - why sharpen any noise ?
Screengrab showing basic smart sharpen settings


Mick Bajcar
 
angad84
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:43 am

Quoting MaxiAir (Reply 7):
I have a Canon EOS 70D - so no Nikon toy Lighting function

Canon has ALO and HTP, which are similar... just saying.

Cheers
Angad
 
dendrobatid
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:40 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:49 am

Quoting angad84 (Reply 9):
Canon has ALO and HTP, which are similar... just saying.

Angad

Yes, you are quite right and I am sure that they are every bit as bad. Whilst I am a Canon user, I am not knocking Nikon.

There is however a very fundamental difference and the reason that we see it a lot with Nikons, rarely with Canon, and that it is a default setting on a lot of the Nikon cameras, a user choice on the Canons.

Mick
 
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Joshu
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:05 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 8):
I started using Smart Sharpen

When I starting using this method a couple years ago, my acceptance ratio skyrocketed and my photos looked crisp without having the oversharpened jaggies.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12679
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 8):
Rather surprised to see JKPhotos suggesting USM....
Quoting Joshu (Reply 11):
When I starting using this method a couple years ago, my acceptance ratio skyrocketed and my photos looked crisp without having the oversharpened jaggies.

I'm sure there are quite a few of us who still use the antiquated USM.

I'm resistant to change unless I have a good reason for it, and since USM still provides completely acceptable results for me (and for A.net - currently 62%, but I've been uploading mostly high-ISO or panning shots lately....it was around 70-80% a few months ago), I haven't found a reason to change.
 
310815
Posts: 1039
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:03 pm

RE: Post Screening: - Screener-in-training?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting dendrobatid (Reply 8):
Rather surprised to see JKPhotos suggesting USM....

When I started this digital photography (it might catch on) I really struggled with getting sharpening right when using USM

Hi Mick,

that is the way I learned it and over the years it worked out quite well. Have had some sharpening rejections lately, but until last month I was constantly above 80%.
Note that I always disselect the sky as well and for some liveries like Air China's I will leave parts completely out of sharpening.
Surely my "system" is not the sharpening masterclass, that is way I actually did not really suggest using it.
And I know a few other planespotters that do it the same way.

Julien

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