Cointrin330
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AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:13 pm

Skift has an article suggesting that as the second batch of Dreamliners are delivered, AA will look closely at re-launching routes to India and venturing into Africa. The article suggests India will likely not be served from ORD as it was previously and lost plenty of money, but rather from Philadelphia. As to Africa, wondering what the plan would be. The article suggests American has filled some voids since the merger, by adding routes to Australia, New Zealand, and adding to what was always a weak portfolio of destinations in Asia, but otherwise has focused long haul route development on markets they know best, like Latin America and Europe.

https://skift.com/2019/02/28/american-a ... eamliners/
 
anshabhi
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region
 
Bigant0408
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:22 pm

Funny I just read this article few minutes ago. I think the 787 would be a perfect aircraft for both places. Not sure which Indian destination would best suited for American but for Africa they would have to at least start a route to Casablanca for connections once RAM joins Oneworld.
Last edited by Bigant0408 on Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kotoka
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:27 pm

DFW-ACC-LOS would be nice!
 
PHLspecial
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:35 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region

This tells me QR is doing pretty at PHL?
 
emuwarveteran
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:43 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region


Indian tourists and immigrants, VFR?
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Eirules
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:47 pm

Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc
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Detroit313
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:50 pm

The 787 is the perfect plane for such routes.
 
sw733
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:50 pm

Eirules wrote:
Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc


Aside from the new connections in Casablanca, Johannesburg definitely makes the most sense. Always has, not just for O&D reasons but because of that BA connection.
 
dfw88
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:51 pm

With the large Indian population and fortress hub at DFW I would be shocked if an AA return to India didn't originate from DFW. It would be close-ish to the 789 range, but I think it would be doable.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:52 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region


SAP US HQ is in Newtown Square, PA. 22 minutes to PHL. Tons of Indian families.

If AA scores SAP contract, PHL-BLR may become viable. LH's PHL-FRA-BLR will be the loser. Very unlikely though.
 
anshabhi
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:04 pm

Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:08 pm

Maybe from Char.... no never mind.
*goes back to counting CRJs*
 
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American 767
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:11 pm

Eirules wrote:
Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc


The problem with JNB is the airport is elevated at 5000+ft above Sea Level. The 787 could reach JNB nonstop from the United States, I don't think that would be a problem, the main concern is taking off out of JNB with a full load of pax and fuel. On the way back from JNB they would have to plan a fuel stop somewhere since the airplane wouldn't be able to take off at its MTOW given the hot and high conditions.
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winginit
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:11 pm

I'll believe it when I see it. I know that AA's Network team is under different leadership now but do we remember just a few years ago when AA was making it sound like MIA-JNB was imminent the second they had a plane that could fly it?
 
evank516
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:13 pm

So with AA considering it, Delta allegedly planning it, and UA already on it, this means all of the US3 may soon have a presence in India.
 
anshabhi
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:17 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region

This tells me QR is doing pretty at PHL?


My intuition suggests that there's just not enough demand from PHL to sustain 2 flights ..
 
sargester
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:17 pm

AA: PHL-CMN by next year...
 
YoungDon
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:18 pm

I would think Africa would make the most sense from Miami, not PHL or DFW.

India from PHL is interesting - I'm sure they have the numbers if they want to try this. I would think DFW would be a better option, though its a bit of a longer flight.
Last edited by YoungDon on Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
YoungDon
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:19 pm

Duplicate
 
EMB170
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:20 pm

anshabhi wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region

This tells me QR is doing pretty at PHL?


My intuition suggests that there's just not enough demand from PHL to sustain 2 flights ..


We [PHL] don't even have OW partners CX to HKG or JL to NRT on A350/B787, respectively. I'd personally think that if anything, AA would want to start there. (Though I wouldn't at all be opposed to seeing CX or JL tails in PHL...)
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
usairways85
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:24 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region


SAP US HQ is in Newtown Square, PA. 22 minutes to PHL. Tons of Indian families.

If AA scores SAP contract, PHL-BLR may become viable. LH's PHL-FRA-BLR will be the loser. Very unlikely though.

AA is not getting an SAP contract if they can't fly to FRA or MUC year round from PHL
 
runway23
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:28 pm

American 767 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Could they make it to JNB? Plenty of connection opportunities on BA Comair from there to the rest of South Africa plus Harare, Windhoek etc


The problem with JNB is the airport is elevated at 5000+ft above Sea Level. The 787 could reach JNB nonstop from the United States, I don't think that would be a problem, the main concern is taking off out of JNB with a full load of pax and fuel. On the way back from JNB they would have to plan a fuel stop somewhere since the airplane wouldn't be able to take off at its MTOW given the hot and high conditions.


A MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA could make sense.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:30 pm

YoungDon wrote:
I would think Africa would make the most sense from Miami, not PHL or DFW.

India from PHL is interesting - I'm sure they have the numbers if they want to try this. I would think DFW would be a better option, though its a bit of a longer flight.


I think it would all depend on what parts of Africa they would want to fly to. South Africa IMO would be best suited from MIA, DFW or long shot CTL. West Africa and even north Africa either PHL or JFK. But lord know what AA intentions will be if it they decide this.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
winginit
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:41 pm

usairways85 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region


SAP US HQ is in Newtown Square, PA. 22 minutes to PHL. Tons of Indian families.

If AA scores SAP contract, PHL-BLR may become viable. LH's PHL-FRA-BLR will be the loser. Very unlikely though.

AA is not getting an SAP contract if they can't fly to FRA or MUC year round from PHL


???

AA has a robust Corporate Sales contract with SAP today. Because of the importance of the linkages between Concur and the airlines SAP has preferred corporate contracts with AA, DL, and UA, which makes sense given the size and breadth of SAP's corporate spend.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:41 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
I would think Africa would make the most sense from Miami, not PHL or DFW.

India from PHL is interesting - I'm sure they have the numbers if they want to try this. I would think DFW would be a better option, though its a bit of a longer flight.


I think it would all depend on what parts of Africa they would want to fly to. South Africa IMO would be best suited from MIA, DFW or long shot CTL. West Africa and even north Africa either PHL or JFK. But lord know what AA intentions will be if it they decide this.


DFW-JNB is too far. CLT-JNB? Just shaking head...
 
Scarebus34
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:43 pm

AA can’t even run year long FRA from PHL (or even seasonal BRU/ZRH for that matter) I find it hard to believe they can make any India or Africa work. It would likely be from MIA if they do it...
 
Scarebus34
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:44 pm

AA can’t even run year long FRA from PHL (or even seasonal BRU/ZRH for that matter) I find it hard to believe they can make any India or Africa work. It would likely be from MIA if they do it...
 
YoungDon
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:44 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
I would think Africa would make the most sense from Miami, not PHL or DFW.

India from PHL is interesting - I'm sure they have the numbers if they want to try this. I would think DFW would be a better option, though its a bit of a longer flight.


I think it would all depend on what parts of Africa they would want to fly to. South Africa IMO would be best suited from MIA, DFW or long shot CTL. West Africa and even north Africa either PHL or JFK. But lord know what AA intentions will be if it they decide this.


DFW-JNB is too far. CLT-JNB? Just shaking head...


Agreed. I can't see DFW-JNB over MIA-JNB. Extra two hours on top of an already long flight.

Is Philly a stronger overall market to Africa than Miami? PHL to most points in Africa (even SA) is a shorter flight than MIA.
 
YoungDon
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:45 pm

Duplicate (a.net is not working well for me today)
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:48 pm

AA should try BLR or MAA or HYD rather than BOM or DEL, which are both supersaturated from the US. No doubt the O&D is poor from PHL to tier 2 Indian cities, but AA would be connecting traffic via PHL to those tier 2 cities. That being said I am sure they will do something tired like DEL and use Vistara to connect thereby making most AA flyers double connect, which is a loser.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
I would think Africa would make the most sense from Miami, not PHL or DFW.

India from PHL is interesting - I'm sure they have the numbers if they want to try this. I would think DFW would be a better option, though its a bit of a longer flight.


I think it would all depend on what parts of Africa they would want to fly to. South Africa IMO would be best suited from MIA, DFW or long shot CTL. West Africa and even north Africa either PHL or JFK. But lord know what AA intentions will be if it they decide this.


DFW-JNB is too far. CLT-JNB? Just shaking head...


That's why I said CLT was a long shot but we've seen stranger routes develop like LHR-CHS.
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VS4ever
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:06 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region

This tells me QR is doing pretty at PHL?


Yields, who knows.

Loads for 2018 (combined direction), from T-100 data, this is the raw data not modified for any errors in seat counts, although they have been getting better at reporting them, so use this data at your own risk.

1 89.58%
2 65.73%
3 79.57%
4 69.63%
5 70.47%
6 79.00%
7 90.27%
8 84.75%
Average: 78.84%, Inbound 79.99%, outbound 77.7%

Ranking of QR routes for Jan to August 18 again, combined direction.

(1) ORD - 85.62%
(2) ATL - 83.12%
(3) BOS - 82.35%
(4) LAX - 81.96%
(5) JFK - 81.55%
(6) DFW - 79.35%
(7) IAH - 79.12%
(8) PHL - 78.84%
(9) IAD - 73.37%
(10) MIA - 71.62%
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subramak1
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:08 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Philadelphia to India..?? I think only UPenn and PSU students would want to travel to India from that region


I am hoping they go Big Bang and launch DEL, BOM, BLR and MAA in one go. Of course I am dreaming. It would provide an excellent one stop connection to most of US and big 4 in India traffic wise

Subu
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:12 pm

I know this sounds very 1990's, but what if AA did a same plane 789 service from DFW-PHL-DEL, where the stop in PHL was less than 90 minutes. It might be seen as easier/more convenient than a person flying DFW-DXB-DEL with a possibly long wait in DXB. But though flights seem to have fallen by the wayside in our present era. Plus, would current regulations allow through passengers to stay on board in PHL? or would they have to disembark and re-screen?
Similarly, could AA get rights to fly JNB-GRU, and then use their multiple flights to US gateways into GRU to operate something of a scissor hub to fan JNB traffic out to MIA/DFW/JFK, etc?
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:14 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see a summer seasonal PHL-CMN or even PHL-RAK.

Morocco is getting to be extremely popular now with Americans. US had, and now AA has a lot of experience in doing these seasonal routes, and I feel like they could probably make Morocco work.
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OA940
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:37 pm

From Philly they could only reasonably make CMN work about 3x weekly, if that. India is a big no from there.
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StormRider
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:39 pm

YoungDon wrote:
...
India from PHL is interesting - I'm sure they have the numbers if they want to try this. I would think DFW would be a better option, though its a bit of a longer flight.


DFW would definitely be the better option - but I'm thinking enough connection traffic might give PHL a try too (although why not pick CLT in that case)
Also depends on the end point (likely to be BOM or DEL)
 
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American 767
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:42 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
I know this sounds very 1990's, but what if AA did a same plane 789 service from DFW-PHL-DEL, where the stop in PHL was less than 90 minutes. It might be seen as easier/more convenient than a person flying DFW-DXB-DEL with a possibly long wait in DXB. But though flights seem to have fallen by the wayside in our present era. Plus, would current regulations allow through passengers to stay on board in PHL? or would they have to disembark and re-screen?


When flying DFW-PHL-DEL, passengers would have to deplane in PHL with all their belongings, but not go through security again. They would just wait inside the secured area before reentering the plane at the same gate. On the other way around, flying DEL-PHL-DFW, passengers would definitely have to deplane with all their belongings in PHL , clear US immigration and customs in PHL, and re clear security before proceeding to their onward connecting flight. When you fly to the United States from another country (except maybe Canada and Ireland), you clear immigration and customs wherever you land first regardless of what your final destination is.

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
Similarly, could AA get rights to fly JNB-GRU, and then use their multiple flights to US gateways into GRU to operate something of a scissor hub to fan JNB traffic out to MIA/DFW/JFK, etc?


Who would want to do that, instead of flying SAA JNB-GRU nonstop? Even an airplane enthusiast like me. like you, like us a.net members, would be very tired. Sure I would do that, as an AA loyal customer, but I would stay at least a couple of days on my stopover point before proceeding on the next leg.
Ben Soriano
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:50 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.


That would definitely be up there on the list of longest non-stop flights... DFW-HKG is close to 17 hours, so AUS-India would be one hell of a long plane ride. Austin may be a decent tech hub, but DFW would be much more reasonable if a TX-India route was opened. An AUS route is extremely unlikely considering the only two long-haul int'l destinations the airport has are London and Frankfurt (which I don't believe has even started yet).
 
usairways85
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:51 pm

OA940 wrote:
From Philly they could only reasonably make CMN work about 3x weekly, if that. India is a big no from there.

CMN would feed off of the new OW connections

QR seems to be doing much better load wise after retiming their flight to better connect with their India connections. So a "big no" seems to be a little premature.

Scarebus34 wrote:
AA can’t even run year long FRA from PHL (or even seasonal BRU/ZRH for that matter) I find it hard to believe they can make any India or Africa work. It would likely be from MIA if they do it...

ZRH is pretty much year round.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:03 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.


While all true, AUS doesn’t have the O&D traffic or connection network to support such a route yet. RDU will get India before AUS. Raleigh’s tech industry is more developed and a significant Indian population.
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IAmGaroott
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:06 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a summer seasonal PHL-CMN or even PHL-RAK.

Morocco is getting to be extremely popular now with Americans. US had, and now AA has a lot of experience in doing these seasonal routes, and I feel like they could probably make Morocco work.


RAK would be my first guess for AA African service. Just as an induction for Royal Air Maroc into One World.
 
Fargo
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:09 pm

rajincajun01 wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.


While all true, AUS doesn’t have the O&D traffic or connection network to support such a route yet. RDU will get India before AUS. Raleigh’s tech industry is more developed and a significant Indian population.


Neither will get Indian service anytime soon, but AUS would get it before RDU as it is a bigger market and has higher O&D
 
GripenFan
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:20 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
The article suggests India will likely not be served from ORD as it was previously and lost plenty of money, but rather from Philadelphia


Given the tech connections between the Chicago area and India the suggestion AA couldn't make this work appears to not bode well for the long-term viability of their ORD hub...
 
sabby
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:42 pm

If AA have corporate contracts with a handful of the large Investment Banks at NY/NJ, they can try JFK-BLR. Pretty much all the big banks have their back offices in BLR and they are the only firms who still allow J fares for all IT employees for long hauls unlike most of the typical IT firms. NYC would ensure larger number of O&D customers who will pay premium for non-stop, along with the contracts and nearby connections at both ends, this route could get AA on India without a single competitor but more yield compared to BOM or DEL. The route is 7200nm though so they may need to block seats or make a more premium heavy config when they get their second batch of 789s.
 
jfk777
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:49 pm

South Africa from Miami of JFK makes sense, ORD or DFW are too far west for such a flight.

Japan requires some attention, AA should NOT be proud of itself for having Asia flights only from LAX and DFW. Tokyo needs connections from AA east coast hubs, MIA included. AA needs a third and fourth gateway with similar Asia schedules to DFW & LAX. Buying JetBlue for JFK and BOS wouldn't be the worst idea to consider.
 
D L X
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:57 pm

Why does CLT-LOS or CLT-ACC not make sense if AA is heading to Africa?
 
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stl07
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:59 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Austin would also be a good choice for Indian flights. Its a decent tech hub and faces no competition from gulf carriers.

So would DTW :banghead:

There's always one out there
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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stl07
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Re: AA Considering A Return to India + Africa Routes

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:04 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
Maybe from Char.... no never mind.
*goes back to counting CRJs*

You were this close to sounding like people from a particular city in Texas or Michigan. Glad you bit your mouth :D

What could work though is DOH or AMM with the ow connection on both sides to back it up, connecting the people in the south/midwest to India/ME
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"

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Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos