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timtam
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:02 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:12 am

Also it appears the WA Government has won the first battle of the constitutional debate over border closures. More battles to follow but WA has jumped to a 1-0 lead.

The Federal Court ruled the state's border closure was more effective in preventing the spread of COVID-19 than any other measure.
 
VH-BZF
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:23 am

timtam wrote:
Outsourcing makes a lot of sense in the right circumstances. The ground handling is a pretty mundane activity with no real intellectual property involved. Its just capital , people and a repeatable process and why wouldnt you outsource it if the outsourcer has economies of scale, a more flexible workforce and can do it at a lower cost. Thats why nearly everyone else in the world has outsourced it.

Unions need to stop ignoring that there can be a long term price to pay for industrial action. it wasnt very long ago that the ground handling staff were causing delays for QF due to an industrial campaign. Union types will probably arc up because they do not like accountability.


Couldn't agree more & the TWU have shot themselves in the foot over this, instead of whinging about, well, everything, they should have been working with QF to see what could be done to make them more productive and save jobs. I remember the industrial campaign you talk about and where did that get them? I'm not anti-union however when I see unions feathering their own nests and ultimately the workers pay for their obstructionist and short sighted bs.

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
soyuz
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:35 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:32 am

Qantaslink are closing their Perth and Cairns Boeing 717 bases. Shifting the planes to the east coast capitals and shuffling around a few Dash-8s.
https://www.news.com.au/news/qantaslink ... d0b9a11d45
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:29 am

soyuz wrote:
Qantaslink are closing their Perth and Cairns Boeing 717 bases. Shifting the planes to the east coast capitals and shuffling around a few Dash-8s.
https://www.news.com.au/news/qantaslink ... d0b9a11d45


This confuses me - getting rid of 8 aircraft in the one market (FIFO) that actually makes a profit right now? Or are QF planning to use more 737s across WA now?
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:40 am

ben175 wrote:
soyuz wrote:
Qantaslink are closing their Perth and Cairns Boeing 717 bases. Shifting the planes to the east coast capitals and shuffling around a few Dash-8s.
https://www.news.com.au/news/qantaslink ... d0b9a11d45


This confuses me - getting rid of 8 aircraft in the one market (FIFO) that actually makes a profit right now? Or are QF planning to use more 737s across WA now?


Maybe QLink, will be picking up more a320s from Jetstar for it’s WARM operations. They already have an couple of ex-JQ a320s in WA.

It’s likely JQ will be looking for an new home for some of there a320s.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2749
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:41 am

ben175 wrote:
soyuz wrote:
Qantaslink are closing their Perth and Cairns Boeing 717 bases. Shifting the planes to the east coast capitals and shuffling around a few Dash-8s.
https://www.news.com.au/news/qantaslink ... d0b9a11d45


This confuses me - getting rid of 8 aircraft in the one market (FIFO) that actually makes a profit right now? Or are QF planning to use more 737s across WA now?

More likely to be ex Jetstar A320s going to QantasLink out west. I understand 3K are sending 3 or 4 A320s back to Australia as part of their downsizing. I would guess these will go straight to QFLink in Perth.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
redroo
Posts: 594
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:25 am

It’s all going red tail 320 out here!
 
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EK413
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:28 am

tullamarine wrote:
ben175 wrote:
soyuz wrote:
Qantaslink are closing their Perth and Cairns Boeing 717 bases. Shifting the planes to the east coast capitals and shuffling around a few Dash-8s.
https://www.news.com.au/news/qantaslink ... d0b9a11d45


This confuses me - getting rid of 8 aircraft in the one market (FIFO) that actually makes a profit right now? Or are QF planning to use more 737s across WA now?

More likely to be ex Jetstar A320s going to QantasLink out west. I understand 3K are sending 3 or 4 A320s back to Australia as part of their downsizing. I would guess these will go straight to QFLink in Perth.

Correct, JQX a 16 year old frame has positioned MEL-XSP (Seletar, Singapore) earlier this morning as JQ7991.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
soyuz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:23 am

I agree with the speculation that more Jetstar A320s are likely to make their way into the QantasLink fleet in PER, which will become a two type operation along with the F100s, which could potentially truck along for another 5-10 years. At least I hope so. I find them a much roomier and quieter ride than the cramped A320 or 737.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2606
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:27 pm

soyuz wrote:
Qantaslink are closing their Perth and Cairns Boeing 717 bases. Shifting the planes to the east coast capitals and shuffling around a few Dash-8s.
https://www.news.com.au/news/qantaslink ... d0b9a11d45


The 717s do fill a good niche of capacity in the east coast, as does the Q400, seems a sensible move to bring them east.
 
VH-BZF
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:42 pm

I've heard more B737's and Network A320's into the WA market due to the booming mining FIFO markets. Melbourne set to become a B717 base and Q300's replacing Q400's at MQL & MEL.
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:25 am

VH-BZF wrote:
timtam wrote:
Outsourcing makes a lot of sense in the right circumstances. The ground handling is a pretty mundane activity with no real intellectual property involved. Its just capital , people and a repeatable process and why wouldnt you outsource it if the outsourcer has economies of scale, a more flexible workforce and can do it at a lower cost. Thats why nearly everyone else in the world has outsourced it.

Unions need to stop ignoring that there can be a long term price to pay for industrial action. it wasnt very long ago that the ground handling staff were causing delays for QF due to an industrial campaign. Union types will probably arc up because they do not like accountability.


Couldn't agree more & the TWU have shot themselves in the foot over this, instead of whinging about, well, everything, they should have been working with QF to see what could be done to make them more productive and save jobs. I remember the industrial campaign you talk about and where did that get them? I'm not anti-union however when I see unions feathering their own nests and ultimately the workers pay for their obstructionist and short sighted bs.

BZF


Im not sure how unions view labour force science, but I always see them looking at what is now and resisting perceived negative changes to what is now. Do any of them actually take a broader look at how their members compare to other groups of workers (both inside and outside of their industry) in terms of hours worked and consider if they might actually be on the wrong side of the productivity pendulum? I mean, if they could prove that their workers in industry X were being worked harder than any other worker in any other sector they would obviously have a case, but if they were getting it super easy, perhaps they should pull their head in and work with the system before the system whacks them one?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:40 am

VH-BZF wrote:
I've heard more B737's and Network A320's into the WA market due to the booming mining FIFO markets. Melbourne set to become a B717 base and Q300's replacing Q400's at MQL & MEL.


Interesting that 717s are back into MEL. MEL-HBA and MEL-CBR were two of the first 2-class 717 routes when that type was introduced in 2013, but subsequently went back to 737s, with the 717s completely pulled out of MEL.

Those two routes, plus some MEL-ADL and potentially off-peak MEL-BNE all seem likely to be 717s going forward.

It also makes sense to put some the Dh-8-300s returning from New Zealand into MEL for MEL-MQL and MEL-DPO, to return some Q400s to SYD and BNE. I wouldn't be surprised to see routes like SYD-CBR and BNE-MKY that have some 717s mixed in with Q400s to become all Q400, with the 717s being used to make routes like BNE-TSV, BNE-CNS, SYD-OOL all 717, potentially even BNE-ADL, and possibly also off-peak SYD-BNE and SYD-ADL.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
gpasternak
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:29 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
VH-BZF wrote:
I've heard more B737's and Network A320's into the WA market due to the booming mining FIFO markets. Melbourne set to become a B717 base and Q300's replacing Q400's at MQL & MEL.


Interesting that 717s are back into MEL. MEL-HBA and MEL-CBR were two of the first 2-class 717 routes when that type was introduced in 2013, but subsequently went back to 737s, with the 717s completely pulled out of MEL.

Those two routes, plus some MEL-ADL and potentially off-peak MEL-BNE all seem likely to be 717s going forward.

It also makes sense to put some the Dh-8-300s returning from New Zealand into MEL for MEL-MQL and MEL-DPO, to return some Q400s to SYD and BNE. I wouldn't be surprised to see routes like SYD-CBR and BNE-MKY that have some 717s mixed in with Q400s to become all Q400, with the 717s being used to make routes like BNE-TSV, BNE-CNS, SYD-OOL all 717, potentially even BNE-ADL, and possibly also off-peak SYD-BNE and SYD-ADL.


Definitely enjoying the QF 737 on the MKY route. You're probably right though if/when Australia opens up again. It used to surprise me in the past that a number of my professional friends flying to Brisbane pay more to fly on a QF Q400 than a quicker alternative on VA.
Next flights: MKY-BNE-MEL-BNE-MKY
 
tullamarine
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:59 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see routes like SYD-CBR and BNE-MKY that have some 717s mixed in with Q400s to become all Q400, with the 717s being used to make routes like BNE-TSV, BNE-CNS, SYD-OOL all 717, potentially even BNE-ADL, and possibly also off-peak SYD-BNE and SYD-ADL.

You'll probably still see some 717s on SYD-CBR during parliamentary sitting weeks due to J class demand even though it seems a bit pointless on a 35 minute sector but the pollies are a precious lot. SYD-OOL would probably always have 737s on it during peak times.
Interesting that 717s are back into MEL. MEL-HBA and MEL-CBR were two of the first 2-class 717 routes when that type was introduced in 2013, but subsequently went back to 737s, with the 717s completely pulled out of MEL

You wouldn't want to be a 717 pilot trying to settle down and buy a house. Their bases seem to change every year or so though, given the current situation, they are probably just grateful to have a job.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
qf2048
Posts: 147
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:14 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
VH-BZF wrote:
I've heard more B737's and Network A320's into the WA market due to the booming mining FIFO markets. Melbourne set to become a B717 base and Q300's replacing Q400's at MQL & MEL.


Interesting that 717s are back into MEL. MEL-HBA and MEL-CBR were two of the first 2-class 717 routes when that type was introduced in 2013, but subsequently went back to 737s, with the 717s completely pulled out of MEL.

Those two routes, plus some MEL-ADL and potentially off-peak MEL-BNE all seem likely to be 717s going forward.

It also makes sense to put some the Dh-8-300s returning from New Zealand into MEL for MEL-MQL and MEL-DPO, to return some Q400s to SYD and BNE. I wouldn't be surprised to see routes like SYD-CBR and BNE-MKY that have some 717s mixed in with Q400s to become all Q400, with the 717s being used to make routes like BNE-TSV, BNE-CNS, SYD-OOL all 717, potentially even BNE-ADL, and possibly also off-peak SYD-BNE and SYD-ADL.


I'd like to see the 717's on some SYD-CFS legs too. All Q400's normally. Tiger is no longer on the route and VA only 1 per day with the 737 ( when they start back up anyway)
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
cx777fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:57 am

qf2048 wrote:
I'd like to see the 717's on some SYD-CFS legs too. All Q400's normally. Tiger is no longer on the route and VA only 1 per day with the 737 ( when they start back up anyway)


It might seem a long shot given BNK is a new route for QF, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised if we start to see some 717s here too soon. They are already up to three Q400s on many days. Though that might reduce when Qld reopens and people fly to OOL again instead.

So much for REX and their hissy fit when they left the Ballina market claiming it was unviable the moment Qantas announced they would start flying it. I agree with others here who predict QF/JQ and VA will eat them for breakfast on the golden triangle. I wonder whether the likes of QLink and Alliance are already sharpening their knives to pick up subsidised monopoly regional routes if (when?) ZL collapses in a heap after burning cash on their jet ambitions.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:04 am

I doubt it. Does Qlink have the available capacity to deploy? Alliance doesn't have suitable aircraft. Remember ZL is only interested in the triangle where population hopefully proves there's money to be made. IMO ZL is more a threat to VA.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:19 am

So JQ A320s heading out west to do the 717 flying and the 717s heading back east to run what was the old Impulse / Jetstar launch routes
 
TN486T
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:25 am

Fantastic. Looking forward to seeing these 717's in MEL again. Great ac to travel on.
 
DanielK
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:44 pm

Perth has another special visitor tomorrow.
A Silk Way West Boeing 747-83Q(F) will be arriving at 0605 AM on the 28th August.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AZG3356
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:35 am

Anybody want to have a B747 drinks cart as their own minibar?

Qantas to auction off Boeing 747 memorabilia: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ia-auction
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:20 am

International airlines joining the call for the federal government "review its 30-passenger cap on incoming flights", saying it could take six months to return thousands of Australians stranded overseas if loads are so restricted. This follows reports that many airlines are prioritising higher-paying passengers in business class and bumping economy passengers if the flight will exceed the cap. I can't actually blame them in some ways, you have to do what's profitable, but maybe they should only be selling business class? If they can only have 30 pax per flight then put them all in business class or maybe business and premium economy.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... d18a580619
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:37 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
International airlines joining the call for the federal government "review its 30-passenger cap on incoming flights", saying it could take six months to return thousands of Australians stranded overseas if loads are so restricted. This follows reports that many airlines are prioritising higher-paying passengers in business class and bumping economy passengers if the flight will exceed the cap. I can't actually blame them in some ways, you have to do what's profitable, but maybe they should only be selling business class? If they can only have 30 pax per flight then put them all in business class or maybe business and premium economy.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... d18a580619


Press release for Board of Airline Representatives Association- https://bara.org.au/

I think the other part is the back log is for month now- and there is not enough space for compassionate travel as everyone is traveling under those circumstances. Not really up to the airlines to prioritise pax, government should and potentially look to compensate when economy is uplift over business. Do feel sorry for carriers
 
zkncj
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:37 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
International airlines joining the call for the federal government "review its 30-passenger cap on incoming flights", saying it could take six months to return thousands of Australians stranded overseas if loads are so restricted. This follows reports that many airlines are prioritising higher-paying passengers in business class and bumping economy passengers if the flight will exceed the cap. I can't actually blame them in some ways, you have to do what's profitable, but maybe they should only be selling business class? If they can only have 30 pax per flight then put them all in business class or maybe business and premium economy.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... d18a580619


Isn't for NSW it an CAP of 50 passengers per flight, to an max of 450/day for NSW.
As per NSW.GOVT.AU https://www.nsw.gov.au/news/quarantine-limits-for-overseas-arrivals-nsw

How is that 450/day allocated? example NZ now has 9x flights per week into SYD which would allow them 540 seats of passengers ending their journey in Australia.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travel-alerts#HvEhaO2tOH4YAeaRaagf

450 passengers is 3150 per week, so NZ would be using up around 20% of NSW weekly cap.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:22 am

zkncj wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
International airlines joining the call for the federal government "review its 30-passenger cap on incoming flights", saying it could take six months to return thousands of Australians stranded overseas if loads are so restricted. This follows reports that many airlines are prioritising higher-paying passengers in business class and bumping economy passengers if the flight will exceed the cap. I can't actually blame them in some ways, you have to do what's profitable, but maybe they should only be selling business class? If they can only have 30 pax per flight then put them all in business class or maybe business and premium economy.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... d18a580619


Isn't for NSW it an CAP of 50 passengers per flight, to an max of 450/day for NSW.
As per NSW.GOVT.AU https://www.nsw.gov.au/news/quarantine-limits-for-overseas-arrivals-nsw

How is that 450/day allocated? example NZ now has 9x flights per week into SYD which would allow them 540 seats of passengers ending their journey in Australia.
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travel-alerts#HvEhaO2tOH4YAeaRaagf

450 passengers is 3150 per week, so NZ would be using up around 20% of NSW weekly cap.


Thats correct, the pool is 450 it’s simply divided by the number of flights being operated to avoid bias. So carriers atm get 30-50 seats per flight - not sure where 540 came from?. If carriers add more flights back in, the allocation per flight decreases for everyone. NZ Is fortunate the NZ government is subsiding their flights for Cargo, pax only need to cover cost of cabin crew and they make money. Not all NZs flights carry pax too. SYD has a daily limit, so flights can’t be combined or capacity shifted between days. BNE has a weekly limit, but minimal flexibility around the daily figures. NZ NLK services aren’t included as this is domestic.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:24 am

Looking at the route map for alliance on the executive traveller website, can’t help but think should ZL go ahead with its 737 operations, a partnership with Alliance would give them some decent coverage, and impressive network. Wonder if VA owes Alliance any money?
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:31 am

smi0006 wrote:
Looking at the route map for alliance on the executive traveller website, can’t help but think should ZL go ahead with its 737 operations, a partnership with Alliance would give them some decent coverage, and impressive network. Wonder if VA owes Alliance any money?


An ZL/QQ merger could make an very powerful regional airline across Australia, if they could find an investor that was willing to provide them with some cashflow fo help them manage risk in the current environment.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:58 am

zkncj wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Looking at the route map for alliance on the executive traveller website, can’t help but think should ZL go ahead with its 737 operations, a partnership with Alliance would give them some decent coverage, and impressive network. Wonder if VA owes Alliance any money?


An ZL/QQ merger could make an very powerful regional airline across Australia, if they could find an investor that was willing to provide them with some cashflow fo help them manage risk in the current environment.


Would you need that much cashflow for a pure merger? QQ is doing reasonably well with its FIFO ops which are somewhat unimpacted by reduced passenger demand? Merger savings would go some way to providing extra cashflow.

Reality is though that whilst ever QQ has 20% of its share registry owned by QF, they cant merge with anyone on competition grounds. If I was ZL, I'd perhaps consider buying that 20% instead of using the capital to run 737s. Qantas bought the stake for $60m. Im sure in the current environment there would be a price they would be willing to accept.
 
OrangeSkipper
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:49 am

EK413 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
ben175 wrote:

This confuses me - getting rid of 8 aircraft in the one market (FIFO) that actually makes a profit right now? Or are QF planning to use more 737s across WA now?

More likely to be ex Jetstar A320s going to QantasLink out west. I understand 3K are sending 3 or 4 A320s back to Australia as part of their downsizing. I would guess these will go straight to QFLink in Perth.

Correct, JQX a 16 year old frame has positioned MEL-XSP (Seletar, Singapore) earlier this morning as JQ7991.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would you happen to know if there are anymore JQ A320s due to to fly out of Australia into XSP? How long are they scheduled to be in XSP for?
 
VH-BZF
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:07 am

qf2220 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Looking at the route map for alliance on the executive traveller website, can’t help but think should ZL go ahead with its 737 operations, a partnership with Alliance would give them some decent coverage, and impressive network. Wonder if VA owes Alliance any money?


An ZL/QQ merger could make an very powerful regional airline across Australia, if they could find an investor that was willing to provide them with some cashflow fo help them manage risk in the current environment.


Would you need that much cashflow for a pure merger? QQ is doing reasonably well with its FIFO ops which are somewhat unimpacted by reduced passenger demand? Merger savings would go some way to providing extra cashflow.

Reality is though that whilst ever QQ has 20% of its share registry owned by QF, they cant merge with anyone on competition grounds. If I was ZL, I'd perhaps consider buying that 20% instead of using the capital to run 737s. Qantas bought the stake for $60m. Im sure in the current environment there would be a price they would be willing to accept.


Given the current profit machine that Alliance is, QF will not be looking to sell out it's 20% anytime soon, In fact they've made no secret of the fact they'd love to own more of Alliance if they could.

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
VH-BZF
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:08 am

smi0006 wrote:
Looking at the route map for alliance on the executive traveller website, can’t help but think should ZL go ahead with its 737 operations, a partnership with Alliance would give them some decent coverage, and impressive network. Wonder if VA owes Alliance any money?


Lol! I think VA owe money to everyone! It wouldn't surprise me if they owe Alliance for their services?

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:34 am

VH-BZF wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

An ZL/QQ merger could make an very powerful regional airline across Australia, if they could find an investor that was willing to provide them with some cashflow fo help them manage risk in the current environment.


Would you need that much cashflow for a pure merger? QQ is doing reasonably well with its FIFO ops which are somewhat unimpacted by reduced passenger demand? Merger savings would go some way to providing extra cashflow.

Reality is though that whilst ever QQ has 20% of its share registry owned by QF, they cant merge with anyone on competition grounds. If I was ZL, I'd perhaps consider buying that 20% instead of using the capital to run 737s. Qantas bought the stake for $60m. Im sure in the current environment there would be a price they would be willing to accept.


Given the current profit machine that Alliance is, QF will not be looking to sell out it's 20% anytime soon, In fact they've made no secret of the fact they'd love to own more of Alliance if they could.

BZF


The ACCC has pretty well put the brakes on that
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:42 am

I’m not sure if anyone has asked this before, so if it has then please direct me to the relevant thread.

As far as I understand, with the delays to delivery of the A380, QF were offered both financial compensation as well as a competitive deal to take the A330. My question is did QF ever consider the A340-600 to replace some 747-400s?

1. I am aware that the B777 is a better performer than the A340 and that QF was one of the airlines that provided input into it’s development. (I’ve flown the 777 and generally like it but find it a bit noisy, personal opinion).
2. Just looking at the raw data on each plane’s ACAP shows that the 340 tanks about 10-20,000L less fuel for a roughly similar passenger capacity and range. Would it have saved any substantial operating costs?
3. The 340 would have had flight deck commonality with the 330 and the eventually delivered 380. Any benefit?
4. I also vaguely a recall an article by Australian Aviation comparing the 777 and the 340. And while the 777 was the better of the two in fuel consumption, the 340 had many more cycles/hours between D checks, I believe.

Many thanks in advance for your knowledge.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B762, B763, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
AN, EK, MI, QF, SB.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7802
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:00 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
I’m not sure if anyone has asked this before, so if it has then please direct me to the relevant thread.

As far as I understand, with the delays to delivery of the A380, QF were offered both financial compensation as well as a competitive deal to take the A330. My question is did QF ever consider the A340-600 to replace some 747-400s?

1. I am aware that the B777 is a better performer than the A340 and that QF was one of the airlines that provided input into it’s development. (I’ve flown the 777 and generally like it but find it a bit noisy, personal opinion).
2. Just looking at the raw data on each plane’s ACAP shows that the 340 tanks about 10-20,000L less fuel for a roughly similar passenger capacity and range. Would it have saved any substantial operating costs?
3. The 340 would have had flight deck commonality with the 330 and the eventually delivered 380. Any benefit?
4. I also vaguely a recall an article by Australian Aviation comparing the 777 and the 340. And while the 777 was the better of the two in fuel consumption, the 340 had many more cycles/hours between D checks, I believe.

Many thanks in advance for your knowledge.


I doubt they considered the A340-600 at any stage myself, unless they had taken it instead of the 744ER maybe. QF didn’t retire the 743 until end of 2008, while the first 744s retire late 2009 which was earlier than planned due to the GFC.

QF maybe could have done with a smaller long haul frame than the 747, the A330 is great for Asia but didn’t work on AKL-LAX etc, newer aircraft might with higher MTOW.

I wouldn’t think the 346 was considered, probably looked at and quickly passed on, the 343 though as a 250 seat long haul frame for JNB/EZE/YVR/BNE-LAX/AKL-LAX.

Pure speculation on my part.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4165
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:35 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
I’m not sure if anyone has asked this before, so if it has then please direct me to the relevant thread.

As far as I understand, with the delays to delivery of the A380, QF were offered both financial compensation as well as a competitive deal to take the A330. My question is did QF ever consider the A340-600 to replace some 747-400s?

1. I am aware that the B777 is a better performer than the A340 and that QF was one of the airlines that provided input into it’s development. (I’ve flown the 777 and generally like it but find it a bit noisy, personal opinion).
2. Just looking at the raw data on each plane’s ACAP shows that the 340 tanks about 10-20,000L less fuel for a roughly similar passenger capacity and range. Would it have saved any substantial operating costs?
3. The 340 would have had flight deck commonality with the 330 and the eventually delivered 380. Any benefit?
4. I also vaguely a recall an article by Australian Aviation comparing the 777 and the 340. And while the 777 was the better of the two in fuel consumption, the 340 had many more cycles/hours between D checks, I believe.

Many thanks in advance for your knowledge.


I doubt they considered the A340-600 at any stage myself, unless they had taken it instead of the 744ER maybe. QF didn’t retire the 743 until end of 2008, while the first 744s retire late 2009 which was earlier than planned due to the GFC.

QF maybe could have done with a smaller long haul frame than the 747, the A330 is great for Asia but didn’t work on AKL-LAX etc, newer aircraft might with higher MTOW.

I wouldn’t think the 346 was considered, probably looked at and quickly passed on, the 343 though as a 250 seat long haul frame for JNB/EZE/YVR/BNE-LAX/AKL-LAX.

Pure speculation on my part.


The a345 maybe would of had an better chance at QF, than the a346. Although it would of be another type to carry and would of had an limited target market.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7802
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:18 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
I’m not sure if anyone has asked this before, so if it has then please direct me to the relevant thread.

As far as I understand, with the delays to delivery of the A380, QF were offered both financial compensation as well as a competitive deal to take the A330. My question is did QF ever consider the A340-600 to replace some 747-400s?

1. I am aware that the B777 is a better performer than the A340 and that QF was one of the airlines that provided input into it’s development. (I’ve flown the 777 and generally like it but find it a bit noisy, personal opinion).
2. Just looking at the raw data on each plane’s ACAP shows that the 340 tanks about 10-20,000L less fuel for a roughly similar passenger capacity and range. Would it have saved any substantial operating costs?
3. The 340 would have had flight deck commonality with the 330 and the eventually delivered 380. Any benefit?
4. I also vaguely a recall an article by Australian Aviation comparing the 777 and the 340. And while the 777 was the better of the two in fuel consumption, the 340 had many more cycles/hours between D checks, I believe.

Many thanks in advance for your knowledge.


I doubt they considered the A340-600 at any stage myself, unless they had taken it instead of the 744ER maybe. QF didn’t retire the 743 until end of 2008, while the first 744s retire late 2009 which was earlier than planned due to the GFC.

QF maybe could have done with a smaller long haul frame than the 747, the A330 is great for Asia but didn’t work on AKL-LAX etc, newer aircraft might with higher MTOW.

I wouldn’t think the 346 was considered, probably looked at and quickly passed on, the 343 though as a 250 seat long haul frame for JNB/EZE/YVR/BNE-LAX/AKL-LAX.

Pure speculation on my part.


The a345 maybe would of had an better chance at QF, than the a346. Although it would of be another type to carry and would of had an limited target market.


True, they looked at the 777 a few times including the 77L I believe in the early 2000s for PS, they probably ran the numbers 345 vs 77L.
 
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Topic Author
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:52 am

September 2020 edition viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1451077
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