Wonder if the Bahraini DHL fleet will want to fly into Tel Aviv

SueD wrote:

Wonder if the Bahraini DHL fleet will want to fly into Tel Aviv

Why not? DHL serves Israel.

Also.. first TLV-BAH flight
https://translate.google.co.il/translat ... 23autoplay

LH658 wrote:

I expect EL AL gunna face tough times, with EK stealing pax going to HKG, SIN, Australia, India, and Thailand. I could see Pre covid EK having 3 flghts to TLV 1 A380 and 2 777s.

I am wondering if Tel Aviv is A380 capable and has any A380 capable gates?

Also, the interesting part will be the EK will get additional passengers from Australia and Cathay (flies direct to Israel from Hong Kong) and Qantas/Thai (With their connections to LY at Bangkok and Hong Kong) will be the big losers...

aschachter wrote:

LH658 wrote:

I expect EL AL gunna face tough times, with EK stealing pax going to HKG, SIN, Australia, India, and Thailand. I could see Pre covid EK having 3 flghts to TLV 1 A380 and 2 777s.

I am wondering if Tel Aviv is A380 capable and has any A380 capable gates?

Also, the interesting part will be the EK will get additional passengers from Australia and Cathay (flies direct to Israel from Hong Kong) and Qantas/Thai (With their connections to LY at Bangkok and Hong Kong) will be the big losers...

The real big loser will be TK. They will lose all of their eastward connections from TLV. EK will stimulate a lot of demand (post-Covid) and will have a sort of Southwest-effect on TLV by opening up a lot of new markets which Israel was unable to tap into in the past.

I am wondering if Tel Aviv is A380 capable and has any A380 capable gates?

Yes

escapedia wrote:

I am wondering if Tel Aviv is A380 capable and has any A380 capable gates?

Yes

Based on what do you say that? Would be great to see the A380 in TLV, probably one of the last airports to start A380 operations...

Based on what do you say that? Would be great to see the A380 in TLV, probably one of the last airports to start A380 operations...

Based on knowledge, but one can find info on the web:
https://www.iaa.gov.il/en-US/rashot/pro ... outes.aspx
https://simpleflying.com/is-hi-flys-a38 ... to-israel/

TLV can handle the A380 although not optimally. As part of the concourse E project three of the 8 new gates were built as dual boarding bridges. While these can probably handle the A380, my understanding is that they are not optimized for it (the initial plan was to have them optimized for the A380 but after it became clear that the A380 wasn’t going to be quite as successful as initially expected, there were some changes made to the design of the three dual-PBBs in concourse E). https://www.del.co.il/זרוע-רביעית-בטרמינל-3-בנתבג

This said, given the short flying time (just 3 hours) between DXB and TLV it doesn’t really make sense to operate an A380 on this route. It is much more likely that EK would prefer to operate multiple frequencies of smaller metal on the route.

EDIT: 3 PBBs (not 2) were built as dual-PBBs

flybaby wrote:

TLV can handle the A380 although not optimally. As part of the concourse E project two dual boarding bridges were built. While these can probably handle the A380 they are not optimized for it (the initial plan was to have them optimized for the A380 but after it became clear that the A380 wasn’t going to be quite as successful as initially expected, there were some changes made to the design of the two dual-PBBs in concourse E).

This said, given the short flying time (just 3 hours) between DXB and TLV it doesn’t really make sense to operate an A380 on this route. It is much more likely that EK would prefer to operate multiple frequencies of smaller metal on the route.

Emirates has been flying the A380 to Cairo and Amman for a while. ( I mentioned those 2 cities because they have a similar flying time)


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flybaby wrote:

This said, given the short flying time (just 3 hours) between DXB and TLV it doesn’t really make sense to operate an A380 on this route. It is much more likely that EK would prefer to operate multiple frequencies of smaller metal on the route.

I think it's as always an economical question. If there are enough transit pax to/from DXB, A380 would mostly fit the TLV route.

escapedia wrote:

flybaby wrote:

This said, given the short flying time (just 3 hours) between DXB and TLV it doesn’t really make sense to operate an A380 on this route. It is much more likely that EK would prefer to operate multiple frequencies of smaller metal on the route.

I think it's as always an economical question. If there are enough transit pax to/from DXB, A380 would mostly fit the TLV route.

As far as I know AMM and CAI also only have dual jetbridges on same level and not for upper deck and it seems to work.

In a Pre COVID environment and assuming we will get to these levels in a few years I could see EK easily to fly to TLV 2 times daily to bring passengers to DXB for the different Eastern Departure waves. Since most activity is at night, I would guess if we will see an A380 it would be for a flight arriving in DXB later in the evening for the night departures to the East.

Tomorrow, 19OCT, Etihad will be operating the first commercial flight to TLV.

EY9607 0500 AUH-0630 TLV
EY9608 0900 TLV-1430 AUH

Equipment: B787-10

It's been announced that Emirates and Etihad are scheduled to operate 28 monthly flights between DXB-TLV and AUH-TLV.

I came across this post on instagram.
Instagram account: @inaviationuae


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xwb777 wrote:

Tomorrow, 19OCT, Etihad will be operating the first commercial flight to TLV.

EY9607 0500 AUH-0630 TLV
EY9608 0900 TLV-1430 AUH

Equipment: B787-10

Will be operated by A6-BMH “Greenliner” c/s

I am surprised that the agreement only covers Tel Aviv, Eilat could have been a rather interesting destination for someone like Wizz Air.

Plane landed

https://m.ynet.co.il/articles/58299560

Sorry article is in Hebrew
Link to speech by Captain and to ATC transmission


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Blerg wrote:

I am surprised that the agreement only covers Tel Aviv, Eilat could have been a rather interesting destination for someone like Wizz Air.

Why would someone from the UAE go to a desert (and expensive) destination like Eilat? It makes 0,00 sense.

Blerg wrote:

I am surprised that the agreement only covers Tel Aviv, Eilat could have been a rather interesting destination for someone like Wizz Air.

ETM is covered in the agreement with no limitations on frequency.

SCQ83 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

I am surprised that the agreement only covers Tel Aviv, Eilat could have been a rather interesting destination for someone like Wizz Air.

Why would someone from the UAE go to a desert (and expensive) destination like Eilat? It makes 0,00 sense.

Exactly.

SCQ83 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

I am surprised that the agreement only covers Tel Aviv, Eilat could have been a rather interesting destination for someone like Wizz Air.

Why would someone from the UAE go to a desert (and expensive) destination like Eilat? It makes 0,00 sense.

Because Eilat gives subsidies.

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

I am surprised that the agreement only covers Tel Aviv, Eilat could have been a rather interesting destination for someone like Wizz Air.

Why would someone from the UAE go to a desert (and expensive) destination like Eilat? It makes 0,00 sense.

Because Eilat gives subsidies.

... and it is a beach resort. And somewhere new for UAE residents and anyone connecting from the east.

myki wrote:

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

Why would someone from the UAE go to a desert (and expensive) destination like Eilat? It makes 0,00 sense.

Because Eilat gives subsidies.

... and it is a beach resort. And somewhere new for UAE residents and anyone connecting from the east.

Plus it has an interesting catchment area like Petra. It can be an alternative access to point for those who not want to go to Amman.

Blerg wrote:

myki wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Because Eilat gives subsidies.

... and it is a beach resort. And somewhere new for UAE residents and anyone connecting from the east.

Plus it has an interesting catchment area like Petra. It can be an alternative access to point for those who not want to go to Amman.

Crossing the Israel-Jordan border is more complicated and time-consuming than flying to Amman. And FlyDubai used to fly to Aqaba.

SCQ83 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

myki wrote:

... and it is a beach resort. And somewhere new for UAE residents and anyone connecting from the east.

Plus it has an interesting catchment area like Petra. It can be an alternative access to point for those who not want to go to Amman.

Crossing the Israel-Jordan border is more complicated and time-consuming than flying to Amman. And FlyDubai used to fly to Aqaba.

Flydubai announced flights to Aqaba but haven’t landed there yet. The flights to AQJ were announced along with Catania flights.

xwb777 wrote:

Flydubai announced flights to Aqaba but haven’t landed there yet. The flights to AQJ were announced along with Catania flights.

ETM - Petra is 148 km.

AMM - Petra is 206 km.

That is obviously not counting the Israel-Jordan border.

SCQ83 wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

Flydubai announced flights to Aqaba but haven’t landed there yet. The flights to AQJ were announced along with Catania flights.

ETM - Petra is 148 km.

AMM - Petra is 206 km.

That is obviously not counting the Israel-Jordan border.

How many km is the border crossing?

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

Flydubai announced flights to Aqaba but haven’t landed there yet. The flights to AQJ were announced along with Catania flights.

ETM - Petra is 148 km.

AMM - Petra is 206 km.

That is obviously not counting the Israel-Jordan border.

How many km is the border crossing?

What about the time wasted in security controls (both sides) and potential queues? And the fact that this border closed at night and during holidays? Probably closed now because of COVID. So it is not worth to "save" 50 kilometres by road. Not even probably a few hundreds of km. with the added inconveniences. Not to mention rented cars cannot go to the other side.

Long story short, trying to market Petra via Eilat for the UAE (considering that Amman-UAE has under normal circumstances plenty of daily flights with Emirates, Etihad, FlyDubai, Air Arabia, Royal Jordanian) just makes no sense.

Anyway this was a thread about Israel-UAE, not about Jordan.

SCQ83 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

ETM - Petra is 148 km.

AMM - Petra is 206 km.

That is obviously not counting the Israel-Jordan border.

How many km is the border crossing?

What about the time wasted in security controls (both sides) and potential queues? And the fact that this border closed at night and during holidays? Probably closed now because of COVID. So it is not worth to "save" 50 kilometres by road. Not even probably a few hundreds of km. with the added inconveniences. Not to mention rented cars cannot go to the other side.

Long story short, trying to market Petra via Eilat for the UAE (considering that Amman-UAE has under normal circumstances plenty of daily flights with Emirates, Etihad, FlyDubai, Air Arabia, Royal Jordanian) just makes no sense.

Anyway this was a thread about Israel-UAE, not about Jordan.

Sure buddy, if you say so.

What he says is correct. How would one even get to Petra from Eilat? Walk?

rlwynn wrote:

What he says is correct. How would one even get to Petra from Eilat? Walk?

I had a taxi take me to the border, I walked across, then took a shuttle to Petra. It was very easy and coordinated. Why would this border be any different than another?

Looking at the flight route today on Fradar, it appears that the return flight flew into Qatar airspace. Was there a let for this considering the media prominence of this flight? Is there a let for UAE charter flights? Could this be a sign of the blockade coming to an end? Or is this simply an error on the part of Fradar?

flyingj wrote:

Looking at the flight route today on Fradar, it appears that the return flight flew into Qatar airspace. Was there a let for this considering the media prominence of this flight? Is there a let for UAE charter flights? Could this be a sign of the blockade coming to an end? Or is this simply an error on the part of Fradar?

All Etihad flights inbound from the west flies above Qatar because Qatar airspace is controlled by Bahrain.

Qatar blockade will come to an end before the year end. Saudi Arabia and Qatar will soon hold talks and discussions then UAE, Bahrain and Egypt will follow and hold talks with Qatar. The officials in KSA has been lately describing their counterparts in Qatar as “Brothers”, which is a good sign.

All Etihad flights inbound from the west flies above Qatar because Qatar airspace is controlled by Bahrain.

Thanks for pointing that out. I just noticed it with all other flights. Makes sense now!

Etihad EY8014 B787-9, A6-BLL, is currently approaching TLV.

Is it clear how those 28 weekly frequencies (and 10 cargo) will be divided, between both countries and airlines?

Arkia will launch 7x weekly flights to Dubai from January 3, 2021.

https://twitter.com/ItayBlumental/statu ... 4155350016

Eff. 26 Nov20 Flydubai will begin double daily flights to TLV as below:

FZ 1163 DXB - TLV 0940 1135
FZ 1164 TLV - DXB 1235 1745

FZ 1165 DXB - TLV 2200 2355
FZ 1166 TLV - DXB 0055 0605

Aircraft: B737-800


https://news.flydubai.com/flydubai-to-tel-aviv

I think they went double daily to feed connections traffic into Emirates.


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These, plus the Israir and Arkia flight that has been announced, I assume then 50% of the 28 weekly flight each has been taken?

They are going to kill El Al's East Asia and India routes.

ojas wrote:

Eff. 26 Nov20 Flydubai will begin double daily flights to TLV as below:

FZ 1163 DXB - TLV 0940 1135
FZ 1164 TLV - DXB 1235 1745

FZ 1165 DXB - TLV 2200 2355
FZ 1166 TLV - DXB 0055 0605

Aircraft: B737-800


https://news.flydubai.com/flydubai-to-tel-aviv

Launching with double daily B738s by giving the market only 3 weeks advance notice to sell is very foolish in my opinion especially under the current operating climate.

If they announced daily, I wouldn't be so pessimistic but double daily with such short notice is

raylee67 wrote:

They are going to kill El Al's East Asia and India routes.

El Al can save money on those routes by flying direct or it can route passengers through Dubai.

behramjee wrote:

ojas wrote:

Eff. 26 Nov20 Flydubai will begin double daily flights to TLV as below:

FZ 1163 DXB - TLV 0940 1135
FZ 1164 TLV - DXB 1235 1745

FZ 1165 DXB - TLV 2200 2355
FZ 1166 TLV - DXB 0055 0605

Aircraft: B737-800


https://news.flydubai.com/flydubai-to-tel-aviv

Launching with double daily B738s by giving the market only 3 weeks advance notice to sell is very foolish in my opinion especially under the current operating climate.

If they announced daily, I wouldn't be so pessimistic but double daily with such short notice is

There needs to be a minimum if 2x for feed to the EK network. It will lose money, but establish a customer base.

Eventually, this needs to be 5x+/day. But that is pist Covid19.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

behramjee wrote:

ojas wrote:

Eff. 26 Nov20 Flydubai will begin double daily flights to TLV as below:

FZ 1163 DXB - TLV 0940 1135
FZ 1164 TLV - DXB 1235 1745

FZ 1165 DXB - TLV 2200 2355
FZ 1166 TLV - DXB 0055 0605

Aircraft: B737-800


https://news.flydubai.com/flydubai-to-tel-aviv

Launching with double daily B738s by giving the market only 3 weeks advance notice to sell is very foolish in my opinion especially under the current operating climate.

If they announced daily, I wouldn't be so pessimistic but double daily with such short notice is

There needs to be a minimum if 2x for feed to the EK network. It will lose money, but establish a customer base.

Eventually, this needs to be 5x+/day. But that is pist Covid19.

Lightsaber

I agree there eventually needs to be 2 daily to feed EK's network but not from the on set with just 3 weeks notice for their respective sales team to sell ! And that too all the main volume markets eastbound for Israel are currently closed for tourism i.e. Australia, Thailand, China, Singapore, India, Hong Kong, Malaysia etc

FZ should have started with a split schedule of 6 / 8 weekly max because for the next 2-3 months, they will be largely dependent on p2p traffic.

behramjee wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

behramjee wrote:

Launching with double daily B738s by giving the market only 3 weeks advance notice to sell is very foolish in my opinion especially under the current operating climate.

If they announced daily, I wouldn't be so pessimistic but double daily with such short notice is

There needs to be a minimum if 2x for feed to the EK network. It will lose money, but establish a customer base.

Eventually, this needs to be 5x+/day. But that is pist Covid19.

Lightsaber

I agree there eventually needs to be 2 daily to feed EK's network but not from the on set with just 3 weeks notice for their respective sales team to sell ! And that too all the main volume markets eastbound for Israel are currently closed for tourism i.e. Australia, Thailand, China, Singapore, India, Hong Kong, Malaysia etc

FZ should have started with a split schedule of 6 / 8 weekly max because for the next 2-3 months, they will be largely dependent on p2p traffic.

The old markets might be closed and tourism is off, but new markets open.

For example, I have a friend in the diamond business. Being able to go grom Tel Aviv to anywhere in India helps. If he is prevented from traveling, that means someone, somewhere, losses 400+ jobs.

We are talking only 2x 738. Eventually that route will be 2x 777 and 3x 738.

If anything, this will open up tourism UAE to Israel and vice versa. Typically, 60% of aircraft demand is growth, this is good seeding.

Without 2x/day the connections with EK would be horrible. That is just the minimum to establish connectivity.

FZ will lose money initially, but gain some early market share.

The fact we are debating appropriate startup frequency shows just how wonderful the new bilaterals are!


Lightsaber

Entry requirements to Israel



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xwb777 wrote:

Entry requirements to Israel



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Oh... I missed that level if lockdown. Never mind, opinion changed.

lightsaber wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

Entry requirements to Israel



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Oh... I missed that level if lockdown. Never mind, opinion changed.

Also until India's "air bubble era" ends, FZ cannot sell transit pax from their network to India. Their current India flights until further notice is strictly allowed to carry p2p traffic only. The only way your diamond friend can get around this is by buying 2 seperate tickets TLV-DXB and then DXB-India with at least a 24 hour stop over in DXB + also he must be an Indian national or hold an OCI card.