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Matt D
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Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:15 am

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/07/graffiti.death.ap/index.html

Leave it to the Communist News Network to first portray the victim (emphasis on "victim") as a "Graffiti Artist" and then going for the sympathy vote by emphasizing that he included "Remember 9/11" messages in his "art".

"Remembering 9/11" or not, what this kid was doing was engaging in an act of property damage THAT WAS NOT HIS PROPERTY. Of course there are those who defend grafitti as an "Urban Artform", "indicative of 'suppression'" and is the modern day descendent of such "lost art" along the lines of "Inca Cave Paintings" and "Tribal Territoriality".

Of course such "art" will remain just that....as long as it's a nuisance that happens to somebody else's property. What happens when such "art" begins to graduate to the inclusion of cars left in parking lots?

I still contend that the act of graffitti needs to be escalated to the level of a felony. It is not "art". It is not the act of some "desperate soul trying to reach out". It is not "your ancestral roots manifesting themself in a modern form".

Any person willfully engaging in the act of deliberately damaging or destroying someone elses property....be it with a can of Krylon or a Magic Marker....that person should receive a mandatory prison sentence for no less than 5 years before eligible for parole.

Respect for other people and other peoples property has become virtually nonexistant in this country. If people can't do it on their own, then respect for other peoples property needs to be legislated. And just to set the record straight: legislating RESPECT is NOT the same as legislating morality or sexual preferences. So don't even go there.

With harsh and severe penalties for violators.

What do you bet that if a team of taggers were to be seen decorating the side of the ACLU headquarters? Would they be embraced and passed off as 21st Century Rembrants? Or would they be prosecuted to the full extent that the law allows (which currently is nothing)?

Graffitti is the willful, intentional, and premeditated damaging of SOMEONE ELSES property with no thought or respect whatsoever given to the rights of said property owner.


And by the way.....

Where were this kids parents when this was going on? How DID he get spray paint? Don't most places (I would certainly think that New York would) restrict the sale of aerosol based paints to those 18 and older with valid ID?

[Edited 2007-01-08 00:19:27]
 
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Coal
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:21 am

I also could never appreciate graffiti as "art." That being said, I guess this was harsher punishment than what is usually given to "graffiti artists" in Singapore.

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Coal
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emiratesa345
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Any person willfully engaging in the act of deliberately damaging or destroying someone elses property....be it with a can of Krylon or a Magic Marker....that person should receive a mandotory prison sentence for no less than 5 years before eligible for parole.

You don't even get 5 years for murder in Canada, so I can't see that happening here anytime soon.

I do think that is a bit harsh though and it would tie up the legal system even more than it already is.

I do agree that it should be enforced and penalties should be higher. I think a monetary value would be smarter than sending someone to jail.

Mark
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
How DID he get spray paint?

They wear those baggy pants for a reason, you know.

Mark
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charlienorth
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:26 am

Sympathy for this mope, BIG FAT ZERO
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
Garri767
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:29 am

I too think Graffiti isnt right, but whenever i am stopped behind a train crossing, its pretty cool to look at it as it passes by  Wink



Garri767
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do!
 
b78710
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

did u catch it on your camera?
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:32 am

I actually quite like some Grafitti art.

When it is done properly as a mural or something, it can look really good and actually brighten up some run down areas. What I don't like however and what I see as purely vandalism is tagging. Now that to me is just totally pointless and has no place in society. It just makes places look run down.

Bit harsh for the kid to pay with his life, but if your gonna do the crime.....

 Smile
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 7):
I actually quite like some Grafitti art.

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halls120
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
I still contend that the act of graffitti needs to be escalated to the level of a felony. It is not "art". It is not the act of some "desperate soul trying to reach out". It is not "your ancestral roots manifesting themself in a modern form".

Any person willfully engaging in the act of deliberately damaging or destroying someone elses property....be it with a can of Krylon or a Magic Marker....that person should receive a mandatory prison sentence for no less than 5 years before eligible for parole.

Respect for other people and other peoples property has become virtually nonexistent in this country. If people can't do it on their own, then respect for other peoples property needs to be legislated. And just to set the record straight: legislating RESPECT is NOT the same as legislating morality or sexual preferences. So don't even go there.

Well said!

Several months ago, there was a thread on Anet on the "art" of graffiti. Several Anetters expressed approval of the quality of the "art" that was nothing more than rank vandalism. When I asked how many of the art aficionados if they would have the same approval if a graffiti "artist" used their car or home as a canvas, you can imagine how many people stood up and said they would.

None, as I recall.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:44 am

ACM,

Thats exactly the sort of thing I mean. I know that technically it is a crime, but to me it actually makes that boring old rail wagon look much better. How people can say that sort of thing is not art is beyond me, whilst people are having piles of cow shit and bricks and dead sheep etc exhibited in some of the worlds most famous art galleries !!!.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
halls120
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 10):
Thats exactly the sort of thing I mean. I know that technically it is a crime, but to me it actually makes that boring old rail wagon look much better. How people can say that sort of thing is not art is beyond me, whilst people are having piles of cow shit and bricks and dead sheep etc exhibited in some of the worlds most famous art galleries !!!.

The difference is simple. Art that is displayed in an art gallery has generally been commissioned by a patron, or at some point after it has been legally created by the artist, is sold to someone.

"Art" created on the side of someone else's property without their permission is simple vandalism.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Pope
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 7):
I actually quite like some Grafitti art.

Please post your home address so we can invite some of these "artist" to come decorate your house and car.

The issue isn't whether or not anyone likes a particular piece of grafitti (art truly is in the eye of the beholder) the problem is that these POS go around "painting" other people's property.

It's amazing how many beautiful settings are defaced by grafitti (i.e. I was in the Roman Colesseum this summer and saw what many idiots had done by carving in stone their 20th and 21st Century sentiments. This is place of global history and these idiots are ruining it). I have no sympathy whatsoever.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
aloges
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:16 am

Sigh... here we go again. No, I do not agree with most graffitis since they are botched hush-hush jobs that have the artistic value of a territorial pissing. But nevertheless, a life is more important than someone's property remaining entirely undamaged.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 11):
"Art" created on the side of someone else's property without their permission is simple vandalism.

Whilst it may be termed as Vandalism, it is still "art".

Quoting Pope (Reply 12):
Please post your home address so we can invite some of these "artist" to come decorate your house and car.

No point as I'm not in the US, and chances are they are not in the 5% of your fellow countrymen who have passports !!.

Quoting Pope (Reply 12):
the problem is that these POS go around "painting" other people's property.

On that point I do agree, however some of the railway companies could use these people to their advantage by commissioning some of these "POS" (whatever that means ??) to paint proper murals etc on the side of the plain dull railway wagons. They will never stop the vandalism completely, so why not make the most of the talent that some of those kids have.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
halls120
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 14):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 11):"Art" created on the side of someone else's property without their permission is simple vandalism.
Whilst it may be termed as Vandalism, it is still "art".

It may very well be art, but the creation of it is still a crime, and the perps need to be punished.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Traindriver
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:26 am

I feel sorry for the train crew. The crew gets 3 days off with pay
but has to deal with the carriers' legal department and also speak
with counselers etc. It's not the easiest thing for the crew members
to deal with, unfortunately, been there, done that and got the t-shirt.
 
Matt D
Topic Author
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:33 am

Whilst it may be termed as Vandalism, it is still "art".

No it isn't.

I've never played a guitar a day in my life. Oh sure I could pick one up and strum the strings. It would make noise like a guitar. But would that make it music?

No point as I'm not in the US, and chances are they are not in the 5% of your fellow countrymen who have passports

Those technicalities aside, would you WANT or WELCOME those people over to your house to repaint it? How about your car?


however some of the railway companies could use these people to their advantage by commissioning some of these "POS" (whatever that means ??) to paint proper murals etc on the side of the plain dull railway wagons.

C'mon dude. Don't pretend to be so naiive. You know what the letters stand for.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the railroads WANT the sides of their engines and cars to be, as you put it, dull sides?

Shouldn't that be THEIR decision anyway?

They will never stop the vandalism completely, so why not make the most of the talent that some of those kids have.

So by your reasoning I should say that since drunk driving will never be eliminated, let's put those peoples driving talents to use by...say....delivering pizzas at 1 in the morning to save Domino's some cash.


Very altrusitic and noble on your part. But with all due respect, you are so far out of touch with reality it's comical.

Whether or not graffitti is indicative of artistic ability is debatable. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. A person who is really good with computers should still be sent to prison if he is caught stealing other peoples bank accounts. The fact that he is THAT good with computers (a very marketable talent indeed) is irrelevent if he uses that talent to commit a crime.

But by your reasoning, rather than continuing to prosecute these offenders (no matter how widespread the problem is), we should simply make identity theft legal, so that these people can make better use of their talents as opposed to letting them waste away in prison.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 17):
Those technicalities aside, would you WANT or WELCOME those people over to your house to repaint it? How about your car?

That's an apples-to-oranges comparison. Your analogy would apply if the rail cars were owned by railroad employees.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
halls120
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 18):
Quoting Matt D (Reply 17):Those technicalities aside, would you WANT or WELCOME those people over to your house to repaint it? How about your car?
That's an apples-to-oranges comparison. Your analogy would apply if the rail cars were owned by railroad employees.

Mark

Oh, I see. grafitti on YOUR car is bad, but graffiti on a corporation's car is good.

Makes no f'ing sense whatsoever.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 19):
Oh, I see. grafitti on YOUR car is bad, but graffiti on a corporation's car is good.

That's a better analogy.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Any person willfully engaging in the act of deliberately damaging or destroying someone elses property....be it with a can of Krylon or a Magic Marker....that person should receive a mandatory prison sentence for no less than 5 years before eligible for parole.

Ok. How bout a mandatory 10 year prison sentence for people who say exceedingly stupid statements without regard for, or comprehension of, concepts of justice and fair punishment. Sounds good to me!

And Matt, do learn how to use the quote function. It's not that hard.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 17):
So by your reasoning I should say that since drunk driving will never be eliminated, let's put those peoples driving talents to use by...say....delivering pizzas at 1 in the morning to save Domino's some cash.



Quoting Matt D (Reply 17):
I've never played a guitar a day in my life. Oh sure I could pick one up and strum the strings. It would make noise like a guitar. But would that make it music?



Quoting Matt D (Reply 17):
But by your reasoning, rather than continuing to prosecute these offenders (no matter how widespread the problem is), we should simply make identity theft legal, so that these people can make better use of their talents as opposed to letting them waste away in prison.

It's not that I don't agree with some of your points, but you've left me speechless at all the fallacies in your arguments. You truly believe any of that to be logical?

Seriously. You leave me marveling at your ability to construct a coherent sentence. I'm confused, really...
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Mir
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Leave it to the Communist News Network to first portray the victim (emphasis on "victim") as a "Graffiti Artist" and then going for the sympathy vote by emphasizing that he included "Remember 9/11" messages in his "art".

Leave it to someone like you to try and get in a cheap shot at CNN. The word "victim" does not appear anywhere in that article.  Yeah sure

-Mir
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MD-90
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
How DID he get spray paint? Don't most places (I would certainly think that New York would) restrict the sale of aerosol based paints to those 18 and older with valid ID?

Ah ha, no. Wal-Mart's the bomb diggety.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
How DID he get spray paint?

There are websites that specialize in the sale of graffiti supplies.

http://www.artprimo.com/
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffiti-shop.htm
http://www.shopbelton.com/
http://www.graffinc.com/home.html

Mark
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FlyingTexan
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
that person should receive a mandatory prison sentence for no less than 5 years before eligible for parole.

Now you are willing and able to take on the increased taxes to support the incarceration, right?

Throw money at it? Where have I heard that before?

In lieu of your posting a thread that celebrates death, maybe gear your efforts with positive energy to help prevent a society that acts like this.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
stlgph
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Leave it to the Communist News Network to first portray the victim (emphasis on "victim") as a "Graffiti Artist" and then going for the sympathy vote by emphasizing that he included "Remember 9/11" messages in his "art".

Two lessons for today.

Broadcast Writing 172 ...

There's nothing sympathetic in the way it was written. It's a "closing fact."
If they were going for the "sympathy" vote, it would have been the lead sentence.


Getting It Straight 134 ...

Not to mention the fact CNN didn't even write it. It was an AP wire address.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ltbewr
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:47 pm

In this case, a minor was trespassing, damaging property, put themselves at risk to the point that he was killed. For over 15 years, grafetti on the NYC subways as dwindled to very low levels due to cracking down on the 'artists', cleaning up any vandeled cars before they are in use the next day, tigher security of NYCTA facilities and the developing a zero tolarance by the public toward 'grafetti'.
Minor offenders should be forced to be in school, to get good grades, and their parents required to pay a substantual fine or a withdrawal of welfare beneifts. Adult defenders should be sentenced to many days of cleaning up grafetti on trains, station walls and so on, as well as assessed substantual fines.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:59 pm

Graffiti can be REALLY cool, but needs to be in a controlled form in places where it is allowed. Not on trains, buses, planes (lol) or any other public places.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
57AZ
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting Traindriver (Reply 16):
I feel sorry for the train crew. The crew gets 3 days off with pay
but has to deal with the carriers' legal department and also speak
with counselers etc. It's not the easiest thing for the crew members
to deal with, unfortunately, been there, done that and got the t-shirt.

That's better than what they might get here, depending on what carrier you work for. One oldtimer I knew who worked for the old Louisville and Nashville mentioned that when he left the company, they would no longer allow their in house counsel to represent employees if they were sued as part of a wrongful death action. All US railroads will give time off with pay while the incident is investigated and most provide counselors if the train crew requests. I cannot remember any companies that make counseling mandatory. I too have hit vehicles at grade crossings and pedestrians-fortunately haven't had a fatality yet.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
Pope
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 14):
"POS" (whatever that means ??)

Pieces of Sh*t

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 14):
No point as I'm not in the US, and chances are they are not in the 5% of your fellow countrymen who have passports !!.

I'm quite certain that there are many graffitti artist in the UK. One need only take the Gatwick Express into Central London to see that.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Superfly
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:07 am

Pope:
I am shocked at the amount of anger you have over these vandals Holy Father. Your predecessor John Paul II would have a lot more compassion.
However, I have no sympathy for these vandals either. I have a friend who has a small trucking company and he has had to deal with these jerks that spray paint his bobtail delivery trucks.
It happens rather frequently too.
Bring back the Concorde
 
prosa
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:59 am

Thanks to Ari Kraft's "artistry" I was three hours late getting home. Along with 100,000+ other people, of course. On a Friday evening no less, which is the one time when people really want to get home as soon as possible.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Grafitti Vandal Plowed By A Train

Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting EmiratesA345 (Reply 2):
You don't even get 5 years for murder in Canada

Where did you get this info?

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