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pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:46 am

There is a case similar here in Australia at the moment.


Why should 2 people out of 100 be speaking a totally different language no one else can understand, how do we know they arent back mouthing the company or speaking about a person next to them?

What gripes me more is people who have lived in a Country 30-40 years and still cant speak english that is understandable.

Personally i found that people in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur speak much better english than many immigrants in Australia. Im all for different cultures etc but not at work.


On a side note, at our workplace we have an english only policy and management has said if you dont like it, you have a choice on where to work. Our policy came about when people where speaking their lingo over the portable radios.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:46 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 49):
arson and terrorism to a simple conversation in Spanish?

in the name of national security, please dont speak Spanish or any other foreign langauge in private matters as well  duck 
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
united757
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:53 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:45 am



Quoting PAHS200 (Reply 24):


Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Why? The pilgrims didn't speak any of the native languages when they came here.

that was then, and this is now.

Quoting Slider (Reply 18):

  

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   praise 
 
Cadet985
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:57 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 36):
Who cleans the tables at McDonalds then?

Not joking, or being a smart ass here, but the last time I was in my local McDonald's (which was over the summer), it was Indian high school age kids.

Marc
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:04 am



Quote:
In the name of national security, please dont speak Spanish or any other foreign langauge in private matters as well

LOL, I speak Arabic in public sometimes. People look at me weird but they have no idea what language I'm speaking. Could that be a threat to National Security?

-Delta767300ER
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:42 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
it is a private company

 checkmark  And that's that. No Paul Harvey. No rest of the story.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 21):
Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
That said, it is a private company, and if they want to require their employees to speak English while on the job (note that the company's policy about English-only does not extend to while on break or at lunch, which I find perfectly reasonable), that's their perrogative.

Just to point out, on A.net itself English is the requested/required language:

Unless you're Cornish, Banco or JPGH1A who've recently been speaking to each other here in some modern-day pig latin  crazy  (j/k guys - your use of latin is impressive  thumbsup  ).
Living the American Dream
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:42 am



Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 54):
LOL, I speak Arabic in public sometimes

yes according to some people it is, really stupid. BTW, where did you learn Arabic, I'm impressed.

Quoting Mir (Reply 49):
arson and terrorism to a simple conversation in Spanish?

he isnt kidding. He is so paranoid that he thinks he can stop a possible attack by knowing what the person next to him is saying in their private conversation.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
opso1
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:34 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:16 am

Tell them, that if they can read and understand all of the legal jargon in the case and defend themselves in an english-speaking court, then they are welcome to bring the case forward...

OPSO1
 
airlinelover
Topic Author
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:39 pm



Quoting AM744 (Reply 60):
Generalizations are tricky. You could build a similar argument regarding springbreakers who come to Mexico.

I used to be cabin crew that flew them there.. They generally ACTED retarded a lot, but they didn't have a "mental handicap" which supposedly is the PC way of putting it.. I'm a lot of things but not always PC..
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:10 pm



Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 58):
Would you feel better if I used Arabic as the language?

You'd still be obscenely paranoid.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:12 pm



Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 67):

Hitting a little close to home huh? Enjoy your shift at Mcdonalds later.

My sister doesnt work at McD's. Nor do i. But she does have down syndrome.

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 67):
And there shouldn't be..

Too bad buddy. They are here to stay. Good Luck in your fight between you and the world. In the mean time:

"Feliz Dia de Accion de Gracias"

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 67):

And you would know this how?

To begin with she would not spew shit out of her mouth that you spew.
Step into my office, baby
 
airlinelover
Topic Author
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:24 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 69):
To begin with she would not spew shit out of her mouth that you spew.

So you're comparing statements made to hygiene? Buddy you have a lot to learn..

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 69):
But she does have down syndrome.

Well, I apologize for offending you. As I previously stated, I do not go all PC on everything..

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 69):
"Feliz Dia de Accion de Gracias"

Happy holidays to you as well, and to your family too.
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:29 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 66):
Thats partly because when you go to the Pakistani equivalent of Sears - there will not be English signs. In the US there are Spanish signs a plenty.

Then maybe it's time we get rid of such signs. Again, if they can't adapt to how it's done here, then they should go home where they don't have to adapt.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:36 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 71):
Then maybe it's time we get rid of such signs

Thats fine. But don't tell me, Maria or Paco over there. Go tell the Aylwin B. Lewis who is the CEO of Sears to stop using them. Want his address?

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 70):
I do not go all PC on everything..

...and that makes you so cool.

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 70):
Happy holidays to you as well, and to your family too.

Gracias.  Wink
Step into my office, baby
 
airlinelover
Topic Author
Posts: 5287
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 72):
...and that makes you so cool.

It's just how I am.. it gets to be a pain with new PC terms coming out every day.. "Bathroom tissue" rather then "Toilet paper". "Disabled" rather then "Handicapped" or "crippled" just to name a couple.


Quoting Mt99 (Reply 72):
Thats fine. But don't tell me, Maria or Paco over there. Go tell the Aylwin B. Lewis who is the CEO of Sears to stop using them. Want his address?

To be honest, Sears/Kmart is one of the most corrupt and dishonest companies in existence today. I'd put their level of corruption FAR higher then the US Gov't.. How do I know? I used to do phone support for sears/kmart, I got to hear EVERY DAY how they screwed their employees over, especially after the Kmart acquisition of Sears. I'm glad I got off that desk, but there is more hiprocacy, greed, and gouging going on in that company then most people could ever believe. If you want details, I'd be happy to provide some..

I'll give you one right now.. The contract that Sears / Kmart has with the company that provides the helpdesk does NOT allow for multi-lingual support. If someone speaks other languages and gets hired, that's fine. But that does not get taken into account. Keep in mind that they have stores in Guam and Puerto Rico. All stores are supposed to have at least 1 person working at all times that speaks fluent english to tell the problem and work on troubleshooting. 98% of the stores did not. I will say that they were some of the nicest people, when they tried to help you understand, even though it was usually not possible.

Yet Sears Holdings Corporation proceeded to give us the 9th degree every single time we couldn't assist a store because they had no one speaking english.

Just one of many things I can point out.

Chris

[Edited 2007-11-22 09:48:31]
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
ajd1992
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:01 pm



Quoting Airlinelover (Thread starter):
Our national language is ENGLISH

No it isn't.

It's the most common by far, but doesn't make it the official one.

Looks like these Mexicans have fallen into the sue happy lifestyle already.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:24 pm

The problem is not that they are Spanish speaking. The problem is that they are not English speaking.

I'm Danish working in Denmark. Of course my native language is Danish. If I didn't speak English, then I would be out of job immediately. The job opportunities in the globalized world become more and more limited if you don't talk, read and write English. English is the de facto world language.

I could of course insist that I will only write "vos" for Verdens Omspaendende Spindelvaev instead of "www" for World Wide Web. But that won't help me much, I'm sure. Neither will Germans have much luck writing "wus" for Welt Umfassende Spinngewebe.

We just have to face it, if we are not able to read and communicate a product or procedure description or a safety instruction in English language, then we are seriously disabled on the job market anywhere in the world.

BTW they have the advantage as Spanish speaking Americans that they only have to learn one single "foreign" language. Those of us, who entered the job market long time before "globalization" was invented, we had to struggle with learning several foreign languages including English.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
DC10extender
Posts: 573
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:02 pm

Ok, this is America and even though the "Official Language" isn't English, we still speak English in America. If you want to live here, you should have to learn English. We shouldn't be the ones making all sorts of changes so people who want to live here don't have to. Just like if I were to move to Germany, I should know German. This is America and in America we speak English.
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:26 pm

Those who are trying to denigrate Thanksgiving are part of the PC crowd. And the PC movement is made up of people who, on one hand, think that they have a right not to be offended by anyone, yet at the same time, is always coining new phrases that make sure that they WILL be offended, unless someone follows their definitions. It's a deliberate paradox that makes sure they have some kind of political power.


As for some PC terms. I have a scenario for you: if a white man, who come to the United States from the nation of Zimbabwe, decided to become an American citizen, passes all the tests, and is granted U.S. citizenship, who is more "African-American"? This white man, or a black person who has never set foot in Africa, and doesn't know the first t hing about Africa. Now, try to use your pathetic PC terms on that one.

There's a problem with PC mentality, people. It has been born out of a mindset that the U.S. is the bad guy-that it always has been, and always will be. From the war with the Indians to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, all the way up to the civil rights struggle. Well, that is far from the truth. But it's convenient to the PC crowd, again, not in a quest for civility and equal rights, but in an attempt to bully others to revise history to meet their dislike of the United States. You have to take history as a whole, not as a part. The U.S., like every nation, has its historical warts-the slaugther of many American Indians is in that group; as is slavery; as was the internment of Americans of Japanese descent during WWII. But we have our great achievements as well-the establishment of democratic government; the large role we played in defeating Fascism in WWII; the achievement of putting men on the moon; the industrial revolution.

Taken as a WHOLE, American history is a rich, successful one, with some very high moments, and some that we should not be proud of. But taken as a WHOLE, we have every RIGHT to be proud of our history, of our nation, of our heritage as Americans. But when the PC crowd tries to pick and choose historical moments in an attempt to try to embarrass Americans, and attempt to make them feel guilty-and try to bury beneath the weight of manure of half-truths and revisionism, they don't denigrate Americans, they end up showing themselves as bitter people, who have nothing better to do than try and divide people, instead of working to unite them.

This is a great nation. We have a lot to be thankful for, this day, as Americans. If you, as an American, are ashamed of your heritage and history, then why are you still even here? If you hate America so much, why not go somehwere else? This nation, warts and all, has made it possible for YOU to be bitter; to hate the history you try so hard to pervert and revise, and to do so without fear of being imprisoned or worse. The fact that you can do so in freedom and without fear defeats your argument that the U.S. is a big, bad nation. It shows how truly great this nation is.

Happy Thanksgiving to all Americans who are proud of the United States. Happy Thanksgiving to those who can look with pride on our history, and put both the good and bad of our history into appropriate context, and do so without malice towards others.

I am an American. As native as any other American. I'm very fortunate that I was blessed to be born in this nation, and I will never be anything but proud to be an American.

edited to remove a paragraph.

[Edited 2007-11-22 11:27:19]
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Toast
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:04 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:01 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 80):
the establishment of democratic government

Hardly an American invention, to be fair...  flamed 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 80):
the large role we played in defeating Fascism in WWII

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 80):
putting men on the moon

Which, of course, has improved our lives dramatically...  duck 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 80):
the industrial revolution

That would be the UK you're praising...  Smile

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 80):
Taken as a WHOLE, American history is a rich, successful one, with some very high moments, and some that we should not be proud of. But taken as a WHOLE, we have every RIGHT to be proud of our history, of our nation, of our heritage as Americans.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

But back on topic, I think an employer has every right to demand that English be spoken at work - in work-related situations. He should, however, have no right to impose any particular language for private conversations (canteen/coffee machine chat, etc.) To those who are paranoid about evil furrners plotting behind there backs or laughing at them secretly: believe me, unless you're a complete and utter asshole, there isn't a chance in 100 they'll even mention you. One very good reason is that they simply have no way of knowing if you speak their language or not. They won't slam you in Spanish or any other language because they don't want risk their jobs on the high probability that someone who can understand them and happens to be within earshot reports them to their boss. I've been eavesdropping for years on casual office chats between people who didn't know I spoke their language. Never, not once once have heard any deprecating comments about other employees or supervisors.

However, speaking a language your colleagues doesn't understand is really impolite. Your conversation may be innocuous, but a great many people feel uneasy about not understanding what's being said next to them. The guys who are suing their boss should use English at all times at work as a basic courtesy gesture. The judge should dismiss the case IMO.
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
ajd1992
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:36 pm



Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 75):
We just have to face it, if we are not able to read and communicate a product or procedure description or a safety instruction in English language, then we are seriously disabled on the job market anywhere in the world.

I can vouch for that, especially small countries with their own language, like Denmark. You go anywhere in Denmark, people will speak Danish, English and depending on the area, maybe Swedish. If you're a Dane that doesn't speak English , you basically can't go abroad because nobody will understand you. Denmark is smaller population wise than London, so it's a necessity. Thankfully, most Danes speak fluent English.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 10132
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:28 am



Quoting Toast (Reply 69):
I think an employer has every right to demand that English be spoken at work - in work-related situations. He should, however, have no right to impose any particular language for private conversations (canteen/coffee machine chat, etc.) To those who are paranoid about evil furrners plotting behind there backs or laughing at them secretly: believe me, unless you're a complete and utter asshole, there isn't a chance in 100 they'll even mention you. One very good reason is that they simply have no way of knowing if you speak their language or not. They won't slam you in Spanish or any other language because they don't want risk their jobs on the high probability that someone who can understand them and happens to be within earshot reports them to their boss. I've been eavesdropping for years on casual office chats between people who didn't know I spoke their language. Never, not once once have heard any deprecating comments about other employees or supervisors.

However, speaking a language your colleagues doesn't understand is really impolite. Your conversation may be innocuous, but a great many people feel uneasy about not understanding what's being said next to them. The guys who are suing their boss should use English at all times at work as a basic courtesy gesture. The judge should dismiss the case IMO.

While I understand what you mean, that a company should not have to control the "casual conversation" language, I think the absolutely largest problem with different languages (or more accurately employees not being able to understand all languages being used) in the workplace is the isolation it creates. It can cause a lack of cohesion because there's one group that is "them" and one group that is "us" and it doesn't matter whose perspective you view it from.

This limits sharing of ideas and problems and impedes the building of common bonds within a company. Improvements to products and service can occur when casual conversation is shared, key information, and company issues and goals are often shared during casual conversation.

So while I agree that there are limits to what a company can legally control, not having everyone speaking a common language can have a high price.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
An-225
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:00 am

Here's what I think - as long as the job gets done safely and properly, who cares what language they are speaking? I understand if the Spanish-speaking employees were addressing English-speaking employees in Spanish and expected them to understand and cater to their needs. That, of course would be a huge problem. But if they're speaking among themselves, they're legal immigrants and they're good workers, why create these stupid rules?

I have a few Spanish-speaking workers at my work. I have a few Russian workers at my job as well, and I speak Russian with them every chance I get. And at my old job, there were about 20 Russian guys and we'd hang out, work together and speak Russian at work and on break. As shitty as that company was (Dish Network), I never heard anyone tell me to speak English at work. Why anyone would be threatened/offended by someone who is speaking a different language, is far beyond me.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11586
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:30 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 68):
As for some PC terms. I have a scenario for you: if a white man, who come to the United States from the nation of Zimbabwe, decided to become an American citizen, passes all the tests, and is granted U.S. citizenship, who is more "African-American"? This white man, or a black person who has never set foot in Africa, and doesn't know the first t hing about Africa. Now, try to use your pathetic PC terms on that one.

Easy - the dude from Zimbabwe. The guy who has never set foot in Africa is simply an American, no more, no less. If he claims to be anything else, he's providing the labels.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 68):
Happy Thanksgiving to all Americans who are proud of the United States. Happy Thanksgiving to those who can look with pride on our history, and put both the good and bad of our history into appropriate context, and do so without malice towards others.

Amen to that. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Quoting An-225 (Reply 72):
Here's what I think - as long as the job gets done safely and properly, who cares what language they are speaking? I understand if the Spanish-speaking employees were addressing English-speaking employees in Spanish and expected them to understand and cater to their needs. That, of course would be a huge problem. But if they're speaking among themselves, they're legal immigrants and they're good workers, why create these stupid rules?

It's not quite that simple. If they're speaking among themselves, in earshot of other employees, it's safe to assume that others won't appreciate it. The simple fact is people generally don't completely trust one another, and politics are a reality in any workplace. For the sake of unity, clarity of communication, and avoidance of potential interoffice conflict, everybody should be using the same language at work at all times.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:47 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 80):
A question for those on here, like Mt99. Do you think the immigrant to the U.S. should adapt to how it's done here, or are you of the belief that those of us who have lived here all our lives should accomodate the immigrant, and chance OUR ways so they don't have to adapt?

Actually i am in the middle of the road. One one side i do think that things like singing the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish are indeed highly offensive. I do believe the purely "American" institutions and traditions have a right to be respected as such. I do believe that the US is a great country and that its people (on an individual basis) are perhaps some of the most giving and selfless people in the planet.

However, i am also a practical man. From a practical standpoint mandating that a strict "English Only" policy is just not practically possible. Its done. The genie is out of the bottle. No other option but to accept that. I see how US citizens might be put off by that. I understand that. But seriously - what are can be done? Think about it. English only in stores, no Spanish instructions on drills and construction equipment, no Spanish instructions on child seats for cars.. I mean - my shampoo bottle has instructions and ingredients in Spanish AND French!. Ban French too? You see what i am getting at?

How do i reconcile both positions? I default to money.After all whats more American than pure capitalism! You or I may not agree of the economic impact non-English speakers have on the country, smarter men and women than myself (the ones that run huge corporations such as Sears Best Buy, AA, Dell, Wal-Mart ect) seem to think that the economic impact is large enough to have signage, websites, costumer support in spanish.

How do the good fortune (and profits) of these companies affect the average Joe? They are publicly traded no?

Has "America" sold its soul? Hasn't that been the question all along?

Point is - while there should be some personal incentive for immigrants to learn English - the fact is that they do not feel the same pressure a Hungarian immigrant had in 1954 to learn it.

What happens to the sons and daughters of the immigrants who don't speak English? I would claim that most grow up speaking english.
Step into my office, baby
 
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KaiGywer
Posts: 11183
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RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:47 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 74):
I mean - my shampoo bottle has instructions and ingredients in Spanish AND French!. Ban French too? You see what i am getting at?

I think a bigger issue there is why the hell would you need instructions for shampoo?  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
JJJ
Posts: 3571
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Immigrants Sue Over English-only Requirement..

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:18 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 73):
If they're speaking among themselves, in earshot of other employees, it's safe to assume that others won't appreciate it. The simple fact is people generally don't completely trust one another, and politics are a reality in any workplace. For the sake of unity, clarity of communication, and avoidance of potential interoffice conflict, everybody should be using the same language at work at all times.

But a private conversation remains at the realm of the private, even at work. Telling your mate to bring you a spanner is still within these limits.

We have French and Romanian speakinf people at work who constantly chat in their respective languages, and the company simply can't tell them to speak Spanish, it's just not enforceable and very probably illegal.

Now, these very people interchange job-related e-mails in Spanish usually, as they may well be needed by someone other at some point, but private conversations, I don't see the point.

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