Have we finally been able to marginalize the religious right in the U.S.?
They seemed to have little impact on the election. Maybe there were enough new voters who wisely recognized there is more to an election than abortion? Or perhaps enough people recognized these issues have no bearing on actually solving problems?
Do you think the religous right will be back? Or are their influence numbered in terms of presidential politics?
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
Perhaps on the election overall, I would agree with you.
However, at the state level, the religious right - particularly the Mormon church - financed and advocated the passage of Prop 8 to the tune of $20 million. The irony is that, at least in my opinion, when (not if) the courts in CA overturn Prop 8 and/or deem it unconstitutional, all that $20 million will have gone to waste. Good riddance, IMO.
I certainly hope that the radicals on the right have less and less say in politics in the U.S. in the future. The country is far too polarized, even today, mostly because of issues like abortion and gay rights (or lack thereof) - issues that those on "God's side" in this country love to involve theirselves in.
However, at the state level, the religious right - particularly the Mormon church - financed and advocated the passage of Prop 8 to the tune of $20 million. The irony is that, at least in my opinion, when (not if) the courts in CA overturn Prop 8 and/or deem it unconstitutional, all that $20 million will have gone to waste. Good riddance, IMO.
I certainly hope that the radicals on the right have less and less say in politics in the U.S. in the future. The country is far too polarized, even today, mostly because of issues like abortion and gay rights (or lack thereof) - issues that those on "God's side" in this country love to involve theirselves in.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter): Have we finally been able to marginalize the religious right in the U.S.? |
Just how have these evil folks effected your life ? Is it best that all opposition just goes away in your opinion ?
What are you dieing to do in life that the religious right has effected so drastically ?
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
Here's a good read from Kathleen Parker, a Washington Post columnist on the Religious Right killing the Republican Party from within.
I especially like this quote.
"....three long-term trends identified by Emory University's Alan Abramowitz have been devastating to the Republican Party: increasing racial diversity, declining marriage rates and changes in religious beliefs.
Suffice it to say, the Republican Party is largely comprised of white, married Christians. Anyone watching the two conventions last summer can't have missed the stark differences: One party was brimming with energy, youth and diversity; the other felt like an annual Depends sales meeting.
(Link is to Huffington Post, which is turn links to WashPo -- sometimes you have to register for their stories)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1...rvative-columnist-ka_n_145076.html
I especially like this quote.
"....three long-term trends identified by Emory University's Alan Abramowitz have been devastating to the Republican Party: increasing racial diversity, declining marriage rates and changes in religious beliefs.
Suffice it to say, the Republican Party is largely comprised of white, married Christians. Anyone watching the two conventions last summer can't have missed the stark differences: One party was brimming with energy, youth and diversity; the other felt like an annual Depends sales meeting.
(Link is to Huffington Post, which is turn links to WashPo -- sometimes you have to register for their stories)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1...rvative-columnist-ka_n_145076.html
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter): They seemed to have little impact on the election. Maybe there were enough new voters who wisely recognized there is more to an election than abortion? Or perhaps enough people recognized these issues have no bearing on actually solving problems? |
Some did vote more on the issues but I would say most of them didn't have a "Jesus Freak" candidate that was acutally going to govern. Palin is IMO but she was not running for the president and if she was they would have voted much more for the GOP. However the moderate conservatives who should have backed McCain would have either more so stayed home or held their nose and voted for Obama (this probably happened to an extent but not as large had the GOP candidate been a social conservative).
| Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter): Do you think the religous right will be back? Or are their influence numbered in terms of presidential politics? |
Hopefully it is and the US is following the other industrialized democracies and will elect more leaders that don't necessarily have to be a religious god fearing person. I also hope that your country is governed telling the religious right to bite the big one when they try to interfere with government operations.
However given the right candidate for the GOP (face it democrats are on a whole far less into religion) it can be brought right back.
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- DocLightning
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RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting AGM100 (Reply 2): Just how have these evil folks effected your life ? Is it best that all opposition just goes away in your opinion ? |
I have no problem with opposition. I have an extreme problem with those Un-American theocrats who seek to overturn the Constitution and instill religious-based and religious laws in the U.S.
You want to be a Mormom or a Scientologist or a Catholic or a Bhuddist or a Unitarian? Go right ahead. But don't even THINK about trying to pass a law to make me behave as if I were one.
Between attempts to re-instate school prayer, teach Biblical creationism, ban gay marriage, uphold anti-sodomy laws, and ban abortion, there's almost a case for conspiracy.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
I think since they were an older segment they are dying out and the younger generation are not joining up in numbers to replace the dying ones.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5): Between attempts to re-instate school prayer, teach Biblical creationism, ban gay marriage, uphold anti-sodomy laws, and ban abortion, there's almost a case for conspiracy. |
...or nation building in the Middle East, otherwise known as "spreading democracy". It's as if Bush and his cronies didn't get the memo that The Crusades ended.
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- WunalaYann
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RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5): uphold anti-sodomy laws, |
Are you suggesting they should pass pro-sodomy laws?
Now I really am on the highway to hell. Bring it effing on!!!!!
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
I would also add that there are many people who are religious but are being more pragmatic as to voting for who is best for their overall interests, including employment, education access, general economics, helping the poor and the enviroment, not just on narrow ones like banning abortion. I also think that the right have found it almost impossible to get any meaningful changes on a national basis as to abortion so may have given up. Politicans have also realized that voters want more open-minded canidates and are starting to distance themselves from the narrow-minded.
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- canuckpaxguy
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RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
If anyone actually believes the religious right has been marginalized in the USA, just wait.
I can assure you they'll be back in full force, and in much less than 4 years. They're just waiting for Obama to say, do, or inadvertently insinuate something they don't like.
Never underestimate the audacity of the ultra-conservatives who believe that hiding behind a Jesus-banner legitimizes their archaic ideas and offers them a platform to promote their perverse notions of what civilized society should look like.
They'll be back. This is just the calm before the storm.
G
I can assure you they'll be back in full force, and in much less than 4 years. They're just waiting for Obama to say, do, or inadvertently insinuate something they don't like.
Never underestimate the audacity of the ultra-conservatives who believe that hiding behind a Jesus-banner legitimizes their archaic ideas and offers them a platform to promote their perverse notions of what civilized society should look like.
They'll be back. This is just the calm before the storm.
G
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
Is this like an extension of the "Has the South Been Marginalized" thread? 
In a way, it might as well be, because we're talking about a lot of the same people and the same geographical areas of the nation.
And the answer is the same-their day in the sun will come again, under a new coalition of voters. The tides are always going back and forth on these things.
In a way, it might as well be, because we're talking about a lot of the same people and the same geographical areas of the nation.
And the answer is the same-their day in the sun will come again, under a new coalition of voters. The tides are always going back and forth on these things.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting AGM100 (Reply 2): Just how have these evil folks effected your life ? Is it best that all opposition just goes away in your opinion ? What are you dieing to do in life that the religious right has effected so drastically ? |
Let me put it to you this way...
"How comfortable would you feel if Louis Farrakhan lead a movement comprising of a 60-70 million voting block....and was thrusting for more growth and political influence...."
...wouldn't bother you? Of course it does. Well that's how us 'heathens' feel when we think of Pat Robertson, James Dobson and the Religious Right. They need to 'keep the crap in the church' and stop trying make us buy into their oddball politically-religious dogma.
BN747
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- canuckpaxguy
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RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting BN747 (Reply 14): Pat Robertson |
He's the 700 Club guy right? I don't get him. All he does is ask for money, and people send it to him. Why is that?
Do people really believe that God speaks to, of all people, Pat Robertson? And would God really tell someone to kill Hugo Chavez?
Who is dumb enough to believe this guy, let alone send him money???
G
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 15): Do people really believe that God speaks to, of all people, Pat Robertson? |
Yes, they do.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter): Have we finally been able to marginalize the religious right in the U.S.? |
No not at all. The religious right remains one of America's single most important voting blocks.
This year the group simply was not really overly enthused about the general election. John McCain is far from conservative and only lukewarm supporter of many important issues.
On the other hands the democrats had a candidate that had them extremely excited which brought out the masses.
Even here in CA with Prop-8, saw strong Republican counties with voter participation a good 10-15% lower then strong democratic ones.
So don't worry - once the GOP gets back to its core constituents and issues you will see the right get energized and be out with the masses voting. This years election cycle simply was nothing for then to write home about.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13): And the answer is the same-their day in the sun will come again, under a new coalition of voters. The tides are always going back and forth on these things. |
You're probably right, although sometimes there are cultural movements which do not ebb back into power in cases where events or particular persons leave a strong negative impression. I believe George Bush may be such a person. He will be linked to the religious right and its causes for years perhaps decades. They may re-emerge once memories fade, but in the shorter term, they are burned.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17): The religious right remains one of America's single most important voting blocks. |
So who is more powerful the Gay Mafia or the Religious Right? I keep hearing the Religious Right speaking in fear of the sneaky power of the Gay Mafia to force their agenda onto our helpless nation. We are puppets to be controlled by the Gay Mafia.
Tugg
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Boeing757/767 (Thread starter): Have we finally been able to marginalize the religious right in the U.S.? They seemed to have little impact on the election. Maybe there were enough new voters who wisely recognized there is more to an election than abortion? Or perhaps enough people recognized these issues have no bearing on actually solving problems? Do you think the religous right will be back? Or are their influence numbered in terms of presidential politics? |
No. The religious right should not be marginalized either. Going off the deep end in either direction is never a good thing.
Obama won because of Bush. Plain and simple.
| Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7): I think since they were an older segment they are dying out and the younger generation are not joining up in numbers to replace the dying ones. |
Oh they are, but its just not very vocal.
| Quoting BN747 (Reply 14): ...wouldn't bother you? Of course it does. Well that's how us 'heathens' feel when we think of Pat Robertson, James Dobson and the Religious Right. They need to 'keep the crap in the church' and stop trying make us buy into their oddball politically-religious dogma. |
You are picking the most extreme of the right you could possibly choose. The greater block of the so-called "religious right" believe in traditional values, low taxes, hard-work, and a strong military. Anti-abortion is also there but is that so bad?
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17): This year the group simply was not really overly enthused about the general election. John McCain is far from conservative and only lukewarm supporter of many important issues. |
You can thank Mitt Romney for McCain getting the nomination. I find it oh so ironic that mormons & the "traditonal" christians have so much in common when it comes to politcs, but when it comes to votting for a mormon the "traditionals" do everything in their power to stop it. On the other hand the democrats have no problem making a mormon their Senate Majority Leader..... pretty funny when you t hink about it.
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- DocLightning
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RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 10): Are you suggesting they should pass pro-sodomy laws? rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl |
I could make a lewd comment. OK. I could make about fifty. Thousand.
But until 2003, anti-sodomy laws existed in several states and were enforced in Texas. Two men were jailed for no crime except that they were found having sex after the police busted into their home.
The alarming bit is that the Supreme Court decision was divided 6-3.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23): But until 2003, anti-sodomy laws existed in several states and were enforced in Texas. Two men were jailed for no crime except that they were found having sex after the police busted into their home. |
One would really hope that the police in Texas had more serious things to keep them busy.
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- DocLightning
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RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 24): One would really hope that the police in Texas had more serious things to keep them busy. |
Apparently they came in based on some tip that there was some other illegal activity in the home and found no evidence of it, just two men having sex in their own bedroom in their own home.
Rather than apologizing and leaving, the police chose to arrest the two men under Texas's anti-sodomy law.
And so it went to the Supreme Court.
The Constitution states in two places that religion is not to interfere with government and vice-versa. The 1797 Treaty with Tripoli expressly states that the United States is not a Christian nation.
If you want to be a born-again fundamentalist, be my guest. Go right ahead. I will oppose any law or ruling that would seek to stop you from practicing your religion as long as you aren't hurting anyone who isn't a consenting adult.
But as soon as you try to force me to behave in a certain way, you will have a mortal enemy. And that's what the LDS church, and a few others, have in me.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26): But as soon as you try to force me to behave in a certain way, you will have a mortal enemy. And that's what the LDS church, and a few others, have in me. |
I share the same view.
[Edited 2008-11-21 02:30:02]
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
To quote Thomas Jefferson...
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 29): "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." |
And what, exactly, does big government have to do with the topic at hand? I'm not sure what your point is.
You'd think the Republican Party, with all its talk of big government being the enemy, could care less what two law-abiding, tax-paying, consenting adults do in their bedroom. And yet, we see the exact opposite. We see "God's" party - the party who would spend millions upon millions of dollars to place discrimination in the Constitution of these United States, who would put a Holy Bible in everyone's pocket, regardless of their religious faith, and who would put a bodyguard next to every pregnant woman in this country to force her to have her child. I could go on and on.
This is why the GOP has lost two elections in a row.
The GOP, in principle, isn't a bad set of ideas. Unfortunately, it has been hijacked by the religious right in this country and has all but lost its way.
What's more, I chuckle when I hear Republicans talking about Ronald Reagan in every stump speech they give. Poor Ron is rolling in his grave every time this pseudo-Republican theocratic excuse for a political party speaks his name.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Flynavy (Reply 30): And what, exactly, does big government have to do with the topic at hand? I'm not sure what your point is. Unfortunately, it has been hijacked by the religious right in this country and has all but lost its way. |
You are the one who quoted the Republican president, I thought I might add another one of his quotes.
By religious right you mean Harry Ried who is Sunday School teaching Mormon?
[Edited 2008-11-21 03:49:15]
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting BN747 (Reply 14): "How comfortable would you feel if Louis Farrakhan lead a movement comprising of a 60-70 million voting block....and was thrusting for more growth and political influence...." |
Louis , is a racist anti semite who wishes the " destruction" of a race and the empowerment of another. Not the same a standing for basic moral issues , and issues frankly to common to all nature.
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5): Between attempts to re-instate school prayer, teach Biblical creationism, ban gay marriage, uphold anti-sodomy laws, and ban abortion, there's almost a case for conspiracy. |
Conspiracy ? What conspiracy is there in putting it on the ballot and haveing voters vote up or down. ? That is the way it should be , any group has the right to try to get their wishes on the ballot. If a majority votes no , then there should be no problem .
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33): Conspiracy ? What conspiracy is there in putting it on the ballot and haveing voters vote up or down. ? That is the way it should be , any group has the right to try to get their wishes on the ballot. If a majority votes no , then there should be no problem |
Shouldn't be any problem but the left only respects a vote that goes in their favor and blames the religious right for brainwashing anyone that could have the audacity to believe something they don't. True elitism.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34): Shouldn't be any problem but the left only respects a vote that goes in their favor and blames the religious right for brainwashing anyone that could have the audacity to believe something they don't. True elitism. |
There's that word "elitism" again, which has come to mean absolutely nothing because it's so overused bythe right. I could say the same thing about the right, NIK, after they spent 8 1/2 years trying to overturn 2 presidential elections in the 1990's, with every form of political bullshit ever offered up by man. Short memory, eh? I dont' recall the left trying to do the same thing to George W. Bush, do you?
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34): Shouldn't be any problem but the left only respects a vote that goes in their favor and blames the religious right for brainwashing anyone that could have the audacity to believe something they don't. True elitism. |
Exactly.
As far as the topic is concerned, no the religious right is not being marginalized. Take for instance that gay marriage got shot down in two states (one being quite liberal and the other being evenly divided). John McCain isn't exactly the candidate to bring in the Evangelical vote, especially considering his marital issues and his foul mouth. If the religious right really was marginalized, then Huckabee wouldn't have been as successful as he was.
Out of curiosity, why are the religious-right so feared? Is it because they fight for the rights of the unborn? Is it because they want to uphold the traditional form of marriage? Is it because they don't believe in lying, cheating or stealing? Is it because they feel ALL theories should be taught in school so students hear all the possibilities? Call me crazy, but I don't see what is so horrifying.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 15): Who is dumb enough to believe this guy, let alone send him money??? |
Believe me there are plenty of dumb people everywhere you look and as long and you can sell BS then there will be people to buy it. Why do you think we have so many conspiracy theories and fears of nonsense, those who sell the fears make it look credible and a good portion of people buy it every time.
| Quoting Tugger (Reply 20): So who is more powerful the Gay Mafia or the Religious Right? |
I'll tell you one thing this gay mafia you speak of is far less threatening to my rights and freedoms than religious groups, and as a heterosexual I really have no reason to care either way.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23): Two men were jailed for no crime except that they were found having sex. |
Well can you truly say such behavior is "normal", "natural" or the desire of God? (You don't need to answer) To many such actions are are simply wrong and immoral sodomy law or not.
| Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 37): Is it because they fight for the rights of the unborn? Is it because they want to uphold the traditional form of marriage? Is it because they don't believe in lying, cheating or stealing? Is it because they feel ALL theories should be taught in school so students hear all the possibilities? Call me crazy, but I don't see what is so horrifying. |
Exactly.
And if these social values were more widely followed as a core in our society it would be a better place then today's everything goes attitude and its moral and social corruption.
Its amazing America is realy going two directions socialy with the left and and most right coast adopting hippie like fare while the center tends to remains true to core values that built this great nation.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 37): Out of curiosity, why are the religious-right so feared? |
Out of curiosity, why are the "gay mafia" so feared?
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 39): Quoting DocLightning (Reply 23): Two men were jailed for no crime except that they were found having sex. Well can you truly say such behavior is "normal", "natural" or the desire of God? (You don't need to answer) To many such actions are are simply wrong and immoral sodomy law or not. |
Since you have asked Doc that he need not respond, I will: Even if not ""normal", "natural" or the desire of God" does it rise to the level of a crime that deserves jail?
Also remember that sodomy is also when a woman give a man oral sex.
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 39): Its amazing America is realy going two directions socialy with the left and and most right coast adopting hippie like fare while the center tends to remains true to core values that built this great nation. |
Uhh, I hate to tell you this but these United States were founded and built by people escaping the persecution of the religious right of that time. This country is great BECAUSE you have people that do not go the same direction as everyone else. This country is great BECAUSE you have people who challenged "core values" like child labor, slavery, vigilante justice, treating women as second class citizens.
The people of both coasts (once we achieved a second coast) and the center, THAT is what has made this country great. Stop disparaging people that are good, honest, hard working, and sincere in what they do.
Tugg
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Tugger (Reply 40): Out of curiosity, why are the "gay mafia" so feared? |
I'm fast approaching my biblical span, I've lived and worked all over the world, sometimes at quite a good level, and I have never encountered this "gay mafia."
Have I been doing something wrong? Do I smell?
Still, as Groucho Marx said, I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member.
Given the appalling political ineptitude of the HRC and other "gay leaders" in the recent Prop 8 battle, if there is such a 'gay mafia' and if they represent it, then maybe it's time to send that lot an offer they can't refuse and install a new Don.
Or Donna.
mariner
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26): But as soon as you try to force me to behave in a certain way, you will have a mortal enemy. And that's what the LDS church, and a few others, have in me. |
| Quoting Flynavy (Reply 27): I share the same view. |
How has any church forced either of you to behave a certain way? I quote a widely known doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: "God will not force anyone, and Satan cannot."
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting Mariner (Reply 41): Given the appalling political ineptitude of the HRC and other "gay leaders" in the recent Prop 8 battle, if there is such a 'gay mafia' and if they represent it, then maybe it's time to send that lot an offer they can't refuse and install a new Don. |
Can't argue with that. That leadership of the "No on 8" campaign and its actions or lack thereof to the "Yes" campaign was pathetic, shortsighted, and unresponsive.
| Quoting Mason (Reply 43): How has any church forced either of you to behave a certain way? I quote a widely known doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: "God will not force anyone, and Satan cannot." |
Then why have sodomy laws?
Tugg
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 44): Why is he able to escape the scrutiny of all this? Good thing the left is allowed to have double standards. |
You folks on the right sure know a thing or two about double standards:
- Ted Stevens
- Larry Craig
- Mark Foley
- Watergate
- Keating Five
I could go on, but doubt I'd get anywhere with you.
[Edited 2008-11-21 23:44:33]
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
Regardless of Mr. Jefferson's quote the fact is our nations base values, its laws, and social norms like it or not are very much enshrined around Judeo Christian teachings. It could have been Islam, Buddism or anything else if history had been different.
So as much as you might dislike religion, our laws and social norms are built around those beliefs.
So as much as you might dislike religion, our laws and social norms are built around those beliefs.
RE: Religious Right Finally Marginalized?
| Quoting LAXintl (Reply 48): Regardless of Mr. Jefferson's quote the fact is our nations base values, its laws, and social norms like it or not are very much enshrined around Judeo Christian teachings. |
Wrong again.
YOUR values, YOUR interpretation of the law, and the social norms you think everyone ELSE should be forced to live under are based around Judeo Christian teachings that YOU were brought up with.
This isn't a Christian nation. You're like a mini Mike Huckabee.
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