Pelosi-Hoyer Call Citizens Un-American

dxing · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:36 am

For 8 years the left cried and whined about how some in government, but mostly those in the media, classified them as Un-American for protesting our involvement in Iraq. Neither President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Speaker Hastert, nor any of the House whips actually called those protesting Un-American but today that all changed. Speaker Pelosi and House whip Hoyer have called those protesting against the current health care proposals being offered by the democratic party as Un-Amercian. I will patiently await those that so vehemently claimed it was their patriotic right and duty to protest that they did not agree with to also denounce this attempt to demonize citizens that are practicing their first amendmet rights.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/...rail-health-care-debate-.html#more

"These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views — but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."

Of course it would be better if the Speaker and the Whip had gotten their facts right, such as:

"Now — with Americans strongly supporting health insurance reform, with Congress reaching consensus on a plan"

Perhaps they should check the latest polls and check with Senator Reid?

Credit where credit is due. The White House came out and criticized the Speaker and the Whips op-ed piece.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...hall-protests-are-un-american.html

"The President thinks that if people want to come and have a spirited debate about health care, a real vigorous conversation about it, that's a part of the American tradition and he encourages that, because people do have questions and concerns ...And so if people want to come and have their concerns and their questions answered, the President thinks that's important.

Okie · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:07 am

Pelosi pretty much falls into the "Drunk and the Lamp Post" category

Keeps trying to use it to support her condition rather than enlightenment.

Okie

L-188 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:28 am

Doesn't surprise me, she is pretty wacked...

Could you imagine if she had a job more her speed, like running a condo homeowners association.

The horror.......the horror.

D L X · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:34 am

Ahh, DXing stirring the pot. I'll bite.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.

This is her actual quote, and YES, drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. That's not how we operate here. That's not how grown-ups discuss important issues. It's immature. It's antagonistic, and it is un-American.

To be American would be to civilly discuss then go to a majority vote. It would not be to prevent others' views from being displayed.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Of course it would be better if the Speaker and the Whip had gotten their facts right

Are you @#$ing kidding me? There's video evidence of people drowning out people's views. I don't know what your facts that you claim she is ignoring have anything to do with her quote, which is directed at the uncivility of the town hall meetings.

L-188 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:46 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
It would not be to prevent others' views from being displayed.

But that is how we operate, signed Moveon.org

I haven't seen a single video where anti-health care nationalizationists have acted with a 10th of the ranker that any number of left wing groups do.

dxing · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:48 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
To be American would be to civilly discuss then go to a majority vote.

At least one person has been assaulted by SEIU members outside of a townhall meeting. Is that Un-American? Code Pink was renown for heckling and disrupting Congressional hearings dealing with the Iraq war. Was that Un-American? When called that by certain media people the left vehemently claimed it was their duty to act out. We're they right? If so what makes citizens that don't belong to any organized group who feel strongly about what is happening wrong?

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
I don't know what your facts that you claim she is ignoring have anything to do with her quote,

Perhaps a visit to the eye doctor is in order. wink

That's twice in a few days you've misread my posts.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Of course it would be better if the Speaker and the Whip had gotten their facts right, such as:

"Now — with Americans strongly supporting health insurance reform, with Congress reaching consensus on a plan"

Perhaps they should check the latest polls and check with Senator Reid?

dvk · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:51 am

There is a major difference between legitimate protest and assembling disruptive, screaming, out of control mobs who prevent any discussion from taking place, and that's what's happening at these town hall meetings and other forums now. They are deliberately preventing any viewpoint other than their own from being heard What they are doing is not "spirited debate". They are preventing debate altogether, and doing it in a threatening and intimidating manner. Actually, when the same kind of behavior happened during similar events while W was President, security quickly removed the disruptive individuals from the premises. The disruptive people were almost always a handful, not a huge mob. It's quite a difference.

And if you think Dick Cheney never made it clear that he thought anyone who disagreed with the war in Iraq was not only un-American, but guilty of treason as well, you are quite mistaken.

falstaff · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:02 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
which is directed at the uncivility of the town hall meetings.

Some of those Iraq war protesters got rough and obnoxious. I also hear about envirolefties being a bit on the out of control side too.

I think that the left is mad because the right is finally marching in the streets, which is something usually reserved for lefties.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
I will patiently await those that so vehemently claimed it was their patriotic right and duty to protest that they did not agree with to also denounce this attempt to demonize citizens that are practicing their first amendmet rights.

They don't care about the 1st or 2nd amendment. Freedom, to them, only applies to to view points they approve of.

Quoting DXing (Reply 5):
At least one person has been assaulted by SEIU members outside of a townhall meeting

Black on black crime The SEIU members didn't like the black man who stood against their view points. The next day the SEIU members didn't even meet up with the TEA party crowd in front of the union hall. The SEIU paid people to come and protest. My buddy, Dan, got his picture on the front page of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch at that event. Dan was arguing with a paid picketer in the picture.

dxing · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:08 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 6):
And if you think Dick Cheney never made it clear that he thought anyone who disagreed with the war in Iraq was not only un-American, but guilty of treason as well, you are quite mistaken.

But did he verbalize it? Did he write an op-ed piece and actually call those that protested against the war "Un-American"?

Quoting Dvk (Reply 6):
There is a major difference between legitimate protest and assembling disruptive, screaming, out of control mobs who prevent any discussion from taking place, and that's what's happening at these town hall meetings and other forums now.

That is what you are seeing on TV, it makes news. It more often than not is one person. The man behind his son in the wheel chair. The doctor who is actually a registered democrat in Georgia. Which orginazation is claiming to be at the heart of the demonstrations? During the war protests the lefts groups never hesitated to grab ownership. Yet which group on the right is doing that? Which people have been out of control? I watched a clip of SEIU members, presumably democratic party members, stomping a man outside of town hall meeting, where they "under control"?

Aaron747 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:30 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Could you imagine if she had a job more her speed, like running a condo homeowners association.

The horror.......the horror.

Your crazed ramblings about the President and Secret Service protection aside, this is damn near the best thing you've ever posted. I'm thoroughly impressed sir.

And I need to spend a few minutes cleaning up all the coffee I just spit out. LOL!

For all we know, she already is on an HOA...

D L X · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:32 am

Quoting DXing (Reply 5):
At least one person has been assaulted by SEIU members outside of a townhall meeting. Is that Un-American?

Yes.

Quoting DXing (Reply 5):
Code Pink was renown for heckling and disrupting Congressional hearings dealing with the Iraq war. Was that Un-American?

Yes.

Quoting DXing (Reply 5):
When called that by certain media people the left vehemently claimed it was their duty to act out.

Examples?

You're not going to get far with me. I hate protesters. HATE them. Do you know why? Because all these mofoes think they're being like Martin by protesting, but in fact they're not doing it in any way that Martin would have accepted. Martin did not disrupt - his whole movement was based on non-violence, and largely, non-confrontation. "We're going to act the way white people act, and if we get arrested for it, the hypocrisy will be exposed." What are these jerk protesters doing? Vilifying, antagonizing, obstructing... they won't get anywhere with me, no matter what position they advocate.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
I think that the left is mad because the right is finally marching in the streets, which is something usually reserved for lefties.

Are you kidding me? Protesters that piss people off typically are actively ignored to the best of the abilities of the people who they are obstructing.

futurepilot16 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:33 am

It is a fact that these "organized" protests are coming clearly from the right. They use these so called grass roots americans to loudly protest in a manner where the congressmen and presentors cannot get their point across. That is extremely unfair when you have a million people yelling the same crap at once and no one can get their points across, then when they don't get their way, they cry about an unfair gov't. Jeez, the town hall meetings were put there for people to voice their concers and that is not what the people are doing.

Then you have people like Sarah Palin fearmongering calling Obama's plan evil and talking about a death panel banghead

? Really, this coming from a woman who didn't know Africa was a continent, i'm surprised people still listen her. The GOP at this point is spreading some of the largest amount of propoganda I have ever seen, and the thing is when this bill gets passed, people are gonna say "they didn't listen to us, they don't care" ???? Are you kidding me, when they won't even allow the speakers to talk, now these rightist gun lovers are packing heat at these town hall meetings, I mean somebody is gonna have to die before the GOP backs of with their propoganda spewing so we can all get our opinions across. And if we stop them from getting in with their guns, here comes the 2nd amendment again. I mean we have grown americans acting like chiildren, it's unbelievable.

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:34 am

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Neither President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Speaker Hastert, nor any of the House whips actually called those protesting Un-American but today that all changed

Beck played that interview When President Bush talked about Cindy Shehan. He was very honorable and gracious , far far from that screeching wombat and bumbling Hoyer .
President Bush also defended the rights of all the anti war protesters ... often. I remember I kinda wanted him to stand up too them , but he didn't.

Hoyer looks like some 70's Britsh actor on some stupid game show or something . What a shame these Democrats are ... there like spoiled kids.. they really are.

It was Un American to bitch about the war when our guys were in the shit every day . They freaking compare that to debate over health care ... gees the 60's sure did allot of damage to us?

futurepilot16 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:39 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 12):
Hoyer looks like some 70's Britsh actor on some stupid game show or something . What a shame these Democrats are ... there like spoiled kids.. they really are.

Spoiled kids, really. We have 65 year old vietnam vets showing up at town hall meetings for the sole purpose to destroy and disrupt it without allowing the speaker to get a point across, and the democrats are acting like spoiled kids. This is the weakest move from the republicans yet, they have people showing up to these town hall meetings with their disabled children and yelling at the speakers that Obama's healthcare plan will send them to his "DEATH PANEL" and yet we're the ones acting like kids right.

L-188 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:46 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 9):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Could you imagine if she had a job more her speed, like running a condo homeowners association.

The horror.......the horror.

Your crazed ramblings about the President and Secret Service protection aside, this is damn near the best thing you've ever posted. I'm thoroughly impressed sir.

And I need to spend a few minutes cleaning up all the coffee I just spit out. LOL!

For all we know, she already is on an HOA...

You might want to check you lawn too....You know she is out there with her measuring stick.

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:50 am

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 13):
and yet we're the ones acting like kids right.

Yep ... your leaders sure are. Are you suggesting that the people showing up to protest are illegitimate ? AND CODE PINK WAS NOT ? How about Charlie Shean ... Sean Penn ,,and suicide Suzy Suranden they were qualified protesters I assume ?

That's OK, Let your Dems keep running. They are on the way down... hard .

L-188 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:50 am

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
Really, this coming from a woman who didn't know Africa was a continent,

Prove she said that....

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
now these rightist gun lovers are packing heat at these town hall meetings, I mean somebody is gonna have to die before the GOP backs of with their propoganda spewing so we can all get our opinions across. And if we stop them from getting in with their guns, here comes the 2nd amendment again.

What in the world are you talking about? Are you having visions of armed citizens charging these meetings? You aren't playing in reality if that is what you are seeing.

Yellowstone · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:57 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 15):
Yep ... your leaders sure are. Are you suggesting that the people showing up to protest are illegitimate ? AND CODE PINK WAS NOT ? How about Charlie Shean ... Sean Penn ,,and suicide Suzy Suranden they were qualified protesters I assume ?

Most of Code Pink's protests took the form of brief disruptions of meetings, which ended as soon as they were told to leave by authorities. True, they intended to disrupt the meeting, but they were willing to leave peacefully and allow business to continue. Many of the anti-health care reform protestors intend to shut down the meetings entirely and prevent their opponents from being heard. The two strategies are qualitatively different.

futurepilot16 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:17 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 15):
Yep ... your leaders sure are. Are you suggesting that the people showing up to protest are illegitimate ? AND CODE PINK WAS NOT ? How about Charlie Shean ... Sean Penn ,,and suicide Suzy Suranden they were qualified protesters I assume ?

That's OK, Let your Dems keep running. They are on the way down... hard .

LOL you wish, keep begging for some ratings. Obama's approval ratings may be low, but guess what, that's what happens when the country expects way too much in way too little time. Remember that he inherited this chaos from your best friend Mr. Bush. See, the thing is our numbers are slipping, while the republican numbers are staying the same and not moving, so keep up with the shenanigans, it won't get you guys anywhere.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 16):
Prove she said that....

Oh trust me she did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPFPi...eon1gga&feature=player_profilepage

Quoting L-188 (Reply 16):
What in the world are you talking about? Are you having visions of armed citizens charging these meetings? You aren't playing in reality if that is what you are seeing.

No, actually I am. Lets do the math. Angry people yelling+others trying to get their point across+pushing and shoving/possible altercation+guns=Disaster waiting to happen. Listen, I support guns and the 2nd amendment as much as anyone, but I don't think a town hall meeting with a bunch of old people protesting is a place where one is necessary. Besides, my point is that the right wing GOP is the bringing these guns to town hall meetings, not the left.

falstaff · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:39 am

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
but I don't think a town hall meeting with a bunch of old people protesting is a place where one is necessary

So I guess only young people can protest.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
my point is that the right wing GOP is the bringing these guns to town hall meetings, not the left.

The left doesn't own many guns..... The GOP is not arming anyone.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 17):
hich ended as soon as they were told to leave by authorities. True, they intended to disrupt the meeting, but they were willing to leave peacefully and allow business to continue.

Because they were too wimpy to actually cause real trouble. I have to hand it to those protesters at the G8 summit meetings and the WTO stuff. I disagree with those hippies, but they sure get their point across. Sometimes you have to kick ass to get noticed and get things done.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
Then you have people like Sarah Palin fearmongering calling Obama's plan evil

It is...

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
It is a fact that these "organized" protests are coming clearly from the right.

Of course they are. We don't like Obama's tax, tax, tax, and tax some more plan.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
so called grass roots americans

They are.... People that strongly believe in conservative causes are no different than the grass roots people that believe in all the leftist causes. It seems that when you stand for conservative issues you are called an extremist and if you stand for leftist issues you are an advocate.

Good ole boys in fly over country don't like elite liberals on the coasts telling us how to live. The further away from large cities you get the less dependent on government we become. A big city democrat and a rural democrat are very different. We are a big country and we will never all think a like and want the same things. Just leave us alone. We need government telling us what we need or what is good for us. A guy in NYC with a little Hybrid car and a small apartment will have a different outlook on things than a guy in down state Illinois with 500 acres, 5 old trucks, and a bunch of guns even though they may belong to the same political party

jpetekyxmd80 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:52 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 19):
Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
Then you have people like Sarah Palin fearmongering calling Obama's plan evil

It is...

And then you get the people that believe it!

She was talking about this in the context of the 'death panels'.

Quote:
"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care," Palin wrote.

Give us anything, ANYTHING, to justify or substantiate what she said there based on the health care proposal. You won't come remotely close.

I'm no ardent supporter of the current legislation, but I sure can call bullshit when I see it.

KSYR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:17 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):

This is her actual quote, and YES, drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. That's not how we operate here. That's not how grown-ups discuss important issues. It's immature. It's antagonistic, and it is un-American.

Quoting Dvk (Reply 6):
There is a major difference between legitimate protest and assembling disruptive, screaming, out of control mobs who prevent any discussion from taking place, and that's what's happening at these town hall meetings and other forums now.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
It is a fact that these "organized" protests are coming clearly from the right. They use these so called grass roots americans to loudly protest in a manner where the congressmen and presentors cannot get their point across. That is extremely unfair when you have a million people yelling the same crap at once and no one can get their points across, then when they don't get their way, they cry about an unfair gov't. Jeez, the town hall meetings were put there for people to voice their concers and that is not what the people are doing.

I love how the lefties on here try and act like their side hasn't been doing the exact same thing (and worse) for years now-particularly on college campuses. At my own school (UNC-Chapel Hill), Congressman Tom Tancredo had to be evacuated for his own safety after hordes of protesters shouted him down, broke the windows out of the classroom he was speaking in, pulled the fire alarms, and clashed with police, who had to use pepper spray and tasers to clear them out.

A week later, Rep. Virgil Goode (R-Va) came to speak, and they tried to do the exact same thing. Leftists shouted him down, threatened him, and deployed noisemakers throughout the auditorium until police responded and arrested about a half dozen of them. Sadly these were not isolated incidents, but most Americans never heard about them.

Where was CNN then? Or Mrs. Pelosi? Guess it is only news when Republicans are the ones looking bad for once.

QANTAS077 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:24 am

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 11):
Then you have people like Sarah Palin fearmongering calling Obama's plan evil and talking about a death panel

didn't she carry on about Obama writing a book? yet she's signed a deal with Harper Collins...

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:41 am

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
while the republican numbers are staying the same and not moving, so keep up with the shenanigans, it won't get you guys anywhere.

Don't really care about the republican political success ... I care about stopping this bill. It is not the people's fault for all this too fast too soon problem . The administration came out trying to cram every big agenda item into the first 100 hundred day's . Like I have said before .. President Obama is a victim of the outright disdain of Pelosi and Reid . He would be far better off without those two around his neck.

If it would not have been for republican and blue dog opposition .. this thing would have passed last month . And they did not even know what was in the bill.!... and they still don't. That is the problem .. the Dems just wanted to force feed this thing on us and it did not work.

But remember ... they have the numbers ... they could have passed it ..but they don't want credit for this nightmare.

Carlisle · Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:52 am

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Speaker Pelosi and House whip Hoyer have called those protesting against the current health care proposals being offered by the democratic party as Un-Amercian.

It takes one to know one.

Carlisle

futurepilot16 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:53 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 19):
So I guess only young people can protest.

Don't take it out of context. I just want to show you that they're some of the only one's falling for this Propaganda spread by the GOP because they firmly think their country is being taken away from them, the same ignorance shown by the birthers. Now there are relatively young protestors there, but I think they were the one's shuttled in by the GOP to kickstart these protests in the first place.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
Don't really care about the republican political success ... I care about stopping this bill. It is not the people's fault for all this too fast too soon problem . The administration came out trying to cram every big agenda item into the first 100 hundred day's . Like I have said before ..

I believe so too. I don't believe in universal healthcare and I think he is trying ot do way too much early on. This healthcare bill needs a major overhaul with help form both sides, but the GOP and the Dems are letting politics get in the way. But they can't know that unless we tell them that they are. We need to truuthfully let these politicians know how we feel about the healthcare bill instead of yelling at them like kids, it's extremely awful behavior for adults and they've shown no patience whatsoever.

Quoting KSYR (Reply 21):
I love how the lefties on here try and act like their side hasn't been doing the exact same thing (and worse) for years now-particularly on college campuses

Oh we have, i'm not condoning behavior either. I'm just saying that if they want this healthcare bill done, they have to voice their concerns in a better way, unless will get done without them, then you will see how childish the GOP supporters can act. But if they want to continue out of spite, they can go right ahead.

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:18 pm

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 25):
We need to truuthfully let these politicians know how we feel about the healthcare bill instead of yelling at them like kids, it's extremely awful behavior for adults and they've shown no patience whatsoever.

How do you suggest that it be done. ? The switch boards and email systems were overloaded weeks ago and they still tried to push it to a vote. The anger works ... I don't like it either but it rallies the troops so to speak and that is the way it works.

I recall a old pencil drawing picture in one of my history books in high school ... a congressman giving a speech while angry citizens threw tomatoes and stuff at him. This is not new , the Dems are just whining about it. Do I have to look up the audio of President Obama in his community organizer days admonishing supporters to "get in there faces" and let them know how you feel?

And hey ,,, Reid and Pelosi have the votes they need anyway . If they are so convinced that this is so wonderful ... get it passed . They don't need one Republican to vote for it... not one.

AverageUser · Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:29 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
This is her actual quote, and YES, drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. That's not how we operate here. That's not how grown-ups discuss important issues. It's immature. It's antagonistic, and it is un-American.

That's correct as far as I can see, un-anything we would see in the West. The best example that comes into my mind is Zimbabwe. People are in a neverending bitter bipartisan feud while the country around them has fallen into pieces many times over. Things aren't looking good, and I'm afraid there is a good chance of actual blood being shed in the U.S. as well near term.

RussianJet · Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:22 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
Ahh, DXing stirring the pot. I'll bite.

Now there's a thing. sarcastic

It sure is out of order for her to say that anyone criticising the plans is 'un-American'. All this really does though is demonstrate the folly of trying to paint every stupid thing that any politician says as 'right thinks this' and 'left thinks that'.

I would love for us to be able to debate just one thing about the USA without it being painted as an over-simplified right vs. left scenario.

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:27 pm

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 27):
Things aren't looking good, and I'm afraid there is a good chance of actual blood being shed in the U.S. as well near term.

We US citizens must do all too avoid this . But when the new power structure speaks of "Remaking America " and shows a track record so far of basic socialism 101 ..it will meet with political resistance. Top that with being told to "shut up" so they can fix the mess we made ... things are getting nasty.

Dreadnought · Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:32 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 3):
This is her actual quote, and YES, drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. That's not how we operate here. That's not how grown-ups discuss important issues. It's immature. It's antagonistic, and it is un-American.

To be American would be to civilly discuss then go to a majority vote. It would not be to prevent others' views from being displayed.

Agree absolutely. So can we expect you to write to Pelosi and your appropriate congressmen to stop ignoring calls and requests for meetings from concerned citizens? I saw an interview yesterday with a doctor who has been trying for three months to see his congressman along with some collegues, and has all the correspondence to prove it, and has been completely ignored. This is one of the main complaints at these town halls - they don't want to listen to opposing views, and accuse them of being plants and "the mob" if they voice their displeasure. Then people who ask questions get called Nazis. I'd get pretty damned vocal too if my congressman treated me like that, wouldn't you?

And can we expect Obama to retract his instructions to his followers to "get in their face" to push their agenda? Aren't the protesters today doing exactly that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCMDur9CDZ4

And can we expect Pelosi to retract he support of such tactics when they were from the Loony Left?

“It’s always exciting…This is democracy in action. I’m energized by it, frankly.” http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/15/PELOSI.TMP

Can we expect any Democrat to denounce the REAL Astroturf movement?
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/a...roturf-for-healthcare-earn-10-15hr

Can we expect Obama and the Democrats to stop lying to us about their intentions concerning private insurance/single-payer and tell us what they really want, and let us decide?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04qJXudcyvc&feature=player_embedded

Can we expect the Obama administration to admit that the whole [email protected] idea was a bad one?

And can we expect Pelosi, Obama and co. to denounce the attack by the SEIU on a 38-year old black conservative who had to spend 2 days in the hospital for his injuries? Will the attackers be prosecuted or quietly let go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXBOgPCh9w&feature=player_embedded

FlyPNS1 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:45 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
But when the new power structure speaks of "Remaking America " and shows a track record so far of basic socialism 101 ..it will meet with political resistance.

If that was true, these same people should have protesting warrantless wiretapping and "No Child Left Behind." Both were huge power grabs by the Federal government, yet where were all these same protesters?

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:01 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
Can we expect any Democrat to denounce the REAL Astroturf movement?

Right upper cut ... left hook ...right hook ... down... that moment was horrible and shameless. I felt like I was going to puke when I saw that. Crickets from the democrats .....

Condi was a complete class act about that incident and she is a very very distinguished lady. She looked like she lost all faith in America at that point. Tell me that bitch with the bloody hands was not smoking dope , free loving and singing protest songs in the 60's 70's. There is the face of Americas problem ... right there with the hollow eyes and bloody-hands.

futurepilot16 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:10 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
How do you suggest that it be done. ? The switch boards and email systems were overloaded weeks ago and they still tried to push it to a vote. The anger works ... I don't like it either but it rallies the troops so to speak and that is the way it works.

The anger sadly won't get us anywhere, it might feel like it, but we are still where we started.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
I recall a old pencil drawing picture in one of my history books in high school ... a congressman giving a speech while angry citizens threw tomatoes and stuff at him. This is not new , the Dems are just whining about it. Do I have to look up the audio of President Obama in his community organizer days admonishing supporters to "get in there faces" and let them know how you feel?

And you think in these critical times, throwing tomatoes and yelling at a congressman, who is trying to discuss our own healthcare, is better for america? And also, Obama supporters NEVER acted in the way that these people are acting. Find me a video of that and I will sincerely back down from that statement, I don't think i've ever seen behavior like this.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 30):
And can we expect Pelosi, Obama and co. to denounce the attack by the SEIU on a 38-year old black conservative who had to spend 2 days in the hospital for his injuries? Will the attackers be prosecuted or quietly let go?

Thank you for posting this video, here is my response, enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK0eFXa1nX4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK0eFXa1nX4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK0eFXa1nX4&feature=channel_page

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:13 pm

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 33):
And you think in these critical times, throwing tomatoes and yelling at a congressman, who is trying to discuss our own healthcare, is better for america?

Point made to show that it is not a new phenomena in America.. that's all. We are rowdy bunch ..

futurepilot16 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:16 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 34):
Point made to show that it is not a new phenomena in America.. that's all. We are rowdy bunch ..

I agree, that's the thing I love about this country, but now is probably not the best time for it.

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:21 pm

Live town hall on FOX right now with defector specter. Looks very calm , lots of republicans asking good questions .... specter sounds like a conservative today.

dxing · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:27 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Examples?

Please, more than a few members of this forum made that perfectly clear during the height of Iraq. If you want I can go back and dig up the posts or are you willing to agree that they did that?

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Because all these mofoes think they're being like Martin by protesting, but in fact they're not doing it in any way that Martin would have accepted

I think they are doing it in a way he would. They are not being violent, they are expressing their opinion. There is no way to boycott the plan since it doesn't exist. So far they haven't had a march that was without permit that I know of.

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Martin did not disrupt -

What is a sit in if not disruptive? Martin led several of those in Birmingham AL. Nothing that the dissenters gathering at these town halls has down has been violent.

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
What are these jerk protesters doing? Vilifying, antagonizing, obstructing... they won't get anywhere with me, no matter what position they advocate.

I take it you are talking about the union members that are now showing up at town hall meetins and screening meetings for dissenters and roughing up at least two indivduals so far? So far I have yet to hear of one meeting that was "obsructed" to the point of being closed down by dissenters. Vilifying and asking antagonizing questions are the peoples right and has been accepted for centuries both in person and in the press.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 17):
Most of Code Pink's protests took the form of brief disruptions of meetings, which ended as soon as they were told to leave by authorities. True, they intended to disrupt the meeting, but they were willing to leave peacefully and allow business to continue.

The first video of a Code Pink member leaving under their own power and not having to be dragged kicking and screaming all the way out the door will be the first. And how many times did they stagger their disruptions? One was disruptive and dragged out, then a couple of minutes later another one cranked up, followed a little later by another.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 17):
Many of the anti-health care reform protestors intend to shut down the meetings entirely and prevent their opponents from being heard. The two strategies are qualitatively different.

Prove that. I'm watching Fox News right now at 9:25 AM CDT and Sen. Specter is holding a town hall conference which they are covering live. Those in attendance that are against are asking their questions and being heard. He has taking 21 questions so far and while people have cheered and booed some answers, the meeting has gone on with relative order. No one is being disruptive. The 10 second TV bite does not show the whole meeting.

fxramper · Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:39 pm

Hoyer was a damn draft dodger during Vietnam and has the balls to call someone Un-American? confused

Pelosi doesn't want new planes anymore so she can cover tracks about this story.

Peat and Repeat.

AverageUser · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:10 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):

We US citizens must do all too avoid this . But when the new power structure speaks of "Remaking America " and shows a track record so far of basic socialism 101 ..it will meet with political resistance

I don't think "political" is receiving the attention now, if you were "political" you'd stick to the actual debatable issues.

The moment you leave truthfulness behind you, you're entering a political no-man's land. You'll then be required to keep two frames of mind, one for yourself, the other for the public image. That situation is will wear the political life out quickly as the connection between the political and the reality will be lost everywhere, anything will become a specialists' power game, and actual violence will enter the scene sooner or later as frustration grows. The U.S. is on a dangerous slope right here and now.

Dreadnought · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:23 pm

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 33):
Thank you for posting this video, here is my response, enjoy it.

Ignoring most of the moronic things the guy had to say, OK, so a bit of exaguration was used. That does not excuse the attack. Assault is still a crime, even if it did not get to the level of Assault & Battery

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 39):
The moment you leave truthfulness behind you, you're entering a political no-man's land. You'll then be required to keep two frames of mind, one for yourself, the other for the public image.

Which is exactly where the democrats have painted themselves. In previous, smaller venues, they were honest about their desire to exterminate private health care choices in favor of a UK-style single-payer system, and using the "public option" as a means to that end. Now they are lying about it.

Yellowstone · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:44 pm

Quoting DXing (Reply 37):
Prove that. I'm watching Fox News right now at 9:25 AM CDT and Sen. Specter is holding a town hall conference which they are covering live. Those in attendance that are against are asking their questions and being heard. He has taking 21 questions so far and while people have cheered and booed some answers, the meeting has gone on with relative order. No one is being disruptive. The 10 second TV bite does not show the whole meeting.

I'm glad Specter's meeting is proceeding in an orderly fashion. That has not been the case at many other "town hall meetings."

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 40):
In previous, smaller venues, they were honest about their desire to exterminate private health care choices in favor of a UK-style single-payer system, and using the "public option" as a means to that end. Now they are lying about it.

Lying, or compromising? Yes, some Democrats (including yours truly) think the optimal system would be some form of single-payer system (preferably one where each person chooses their own doctor, and then the government pays all doctors' expenses and salaries). However, we also recognize that instituting such a system in the US is politically impossible, at least in the next several years. A public option is the next best thing, so we'll fight for that.

Quoting DXing (Reply 37):
I think they are doing it in a way he would. They are not being violent, they are expressing their opinion.

They are expressing their opinions in ways calculated to prevent others from expressing theirs. That's what we have a problem with.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Condi was a complete class act about that incident and she is a very very distinguished lady. She looked like she lost all faith in America at that point. Tell me that bitch with the bloody hands was not smoking dope , free loving and singing protest songs in the 60's 70's. There is the face of Americas problem ... right there with the hollow eyes and bloody-hands.

And what, exactly, is wrong with smoking pot, having sex, and singing protest songs?

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:02 pm

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 39):
you'd stick to the actual debatable issues

Whats not debatable about what I said... The bill takes money from me and my family to pay for others . It spreads the wealth around so that the commune "equally" benefits. That is the idea behind the bill. That is the agenda ... health-care is just the vehicle to pierce the armor of free markets capitalism . Debate ?

Its not knew ... the communists used the same tactics of promising fair social welfare and tearing down the evil rich people ... the Nazi used same message against the Jews, The Italian fascists used it , its not that hard to figure out. Level the rich ..so the poor can get what they deserve .... its so snugly and warm ...

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41):
And what, exactly, is wrong with smoking pot, having sex, and singing protest songs?

Well many of them ended up FUBAR ... and are now counting on " Maggie's Farm" to send them a check and pay for there health-care. The very government they once tuned off and dropped out from is now there savior ... Like Morrison said .."The Soft Parade is here today"

FlyPNS1 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:18 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 42):
The bill takes money from me and my family to pay for others.

So does every bill that involves government spending? So, unless you are planning to eliminate the military, police, firefighters, schools, public roads, etc, then you are going to have to pay taxes that often benefit others.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 42):
the communists used the same tactics of promising fair social welfare and tearing down the evil rich people

This bill isn't going to tear-down rich people. Rich people won't even notice the effects of this bill.

seb146 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:29 pm

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
cried and whined about how some in government, but mostly those in the media, classified them as Un-American for protesting our involvement in Iraq.

Again: Setting up "free speech zones" miles away from Bush instead of letting him see exactly how other Americans felt and screening and interviewing people before any town hall meetings before any Bush apperance and removing anyone wearing any "offensive" clothing (like t-shirts that say "support the troops") is fine but complaining that opposing views are not being heard is acceptable? Again, this is just the right making sure only one side of the debate is heard. It is the right telling everyone exactly what opinion they want to have. What is American about that? Hanging a Congressman in effigy is American? Bringing a gun to a town hall meeting with a Democrat is American? Not allowing anyone else to experss opinions is American? How?

Mir · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:38 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 34):
Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 33):
And you think in these critical times, throwing tomatoes and yelling at a congressman, who is trying to discuss our own healthcare, is better for america?

Point made to show that it is not a new phenomena in America.. that's all. We are rowdy bunch ..

And yet you say this:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Condi was a complete class act about that incident and she is a very very distinguished lady. She looked like she lost all faith in America at that point. Tell me that bitch with the bloody hands was not smoking dope , free loving and singing protest songs in the 60's 70's. There is the face of Americas problem ... right there with the hollow eyes and bloody-hands.

So when Republican protesters do it, it's just Americans being "the rowdy bunch" that they are and always have been. When Code Pink does it, it's "the face of America's problem". Makes perfect sense. Yeah sure

-Mir

KSYR · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:50 pm

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 25):

Oh we have, i'm not condoning behavior either. I'm just saying that if they want this healthcare bill done, they have to voice their concerns in a better way, unless will get done without them, then you will see how childish the GOP supporters can act. But if they want to continue out of spite, they can go right ahead.

Fair enough.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 44):
Again, this is just the right making sure only one side of the debate is heard. It is the right telling everyone exactly what opinion they want to have. What is American about that? Hanging a Congressman in effigy is American? Bringing a gun to a town hall meeting with a Democrat is American? Not allowing anyone else to experss opinions is American? How?

Once again, where have you been the past few years when radical liberals have done the same thing (and worse) to Republican speakers, particularly at college campuses nationwide? Is it only wrong when Republicans do it? Where was Pelosi then?

dxing · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:02 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41):
I'm glad Specter's meeting is proceeding in an orderly fashion. That has not been the case at many other "town hall meetings."

Again, if you go by the 10 second to 1 minute TV bites it would seem so, but the town hall meetings go on much longer than that. The one in Georgia with Congressman Scott went on for 4 hours before a question was asked about health care reform that set the Congressman off on a tirade. Considering he is a public servant that is Un-American.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41):
They are expressing their opinions in ways calculated to prevent others from expressing theirs. That's what we have a problem with.

How, with duct tape? How are they expressing their opinion that stops anyone else from expressing theirs? BTW expressing their opnion in any other than a violent way is Un-American how? If so was MLK Un-American?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 44):
Again: Setting up "free speech zones" miles away from Bush instead of letting him see exactly how other Americans felt and screening and interviewing people before any town hall meetings before any Bush apperance and removing anyone wearing any "offensive" clothing (like t-shirts that say "support the troops") is fine but complaining that opposing views are not being heard is acceptable?

Presidential appearances, and the President himself, receive a different level of security than do members of Congress, you know that or at least ought too. Please provide the link where someone was removed from a Presidential rally for wearing a t-shirt that said "support the troops".

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 44):
Again, this is just the right making sure only one side of the debate is heard. It is the right telling everyone exactly what opinion they want to have. What is American about that? Hanging a Congressman in effigy is American?

I'm sorry, but after years and years of the left doing exactly the same thing you'll find no sympathy here when for once the right stands up and says NO to a program that is, by historical example, destined to fail or cost far more than the rosey predictions the democratic leadership is predicting. So you would agree that anti-war protestors that hung President Bush, and VP Cheney in effigy, which happened several times, were also Un-American?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 44):
Bringing a gun to a town hall meeting with a Democrat is American?

If that person had a permit to carry the gun and no rule was published or announced stating "no guns allowed" then yes, it's perfectly legal and American. For the better part of our history as a nation people wore sidearms in public. Were those people Un-American?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 44):
Not allowing anyone else to experss opinions is American? How?

As above, how are they not allowing anyone to express their opinion? Are they using duct tape? Seems to me that Congressman Scott did his best, as have other members of Congress by resorting to phone in townhall meetings. A public official, controlling the conversation electronically, is the American way?

AGM100 · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:04 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 43):
So does every bill that involves government spending?

I am not suggesting that we do not have basic services and social safety systems. But growing it to the proportion that they are talking about is far beyond that.

We have a damn good health-care system in this country , and it is born of risk takers , capitalists and self determined health providers. It is not a system that has been grown by bureaucratic manipulators and politicians.

DocLightning · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:42 pm

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Neither President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Speaker Hastert, nor any of the House whips actually called those protesting Un-American but today that all changed.

No, they called them "Against us."

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.

I disagree. It is not un-American. It is illogical, but not un-American. Nor is lying un-American. It is bad and it shows you have no point if you have to lie to prove your point, but I disagree that it is un-American. In fact, America has a strong tradition of lies.

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