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trigged
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TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 5:19 pm

TSA-Fracas-After-Body-Scanner-Reveals-TMI-92971929.html" target="_blank">http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-b...-Scanner-Reveals-TMI-92971929.html

"Sources say Negrin stepped into the machine during the training session and became embarrassed and angry when a supervisor started cracking jokes about his manhood, made visible by the new machine. A fight broke out, and Negrin went after one of the other TSA workers."


Hmmmm... I guess the involves the fidelity of the scanners and the quality of TSA employees.

Comments? I think they need to visit both issues. I will assume this guy is now without a job.

[Edited 2010-05-06 10:19:59]
 
ikramerica
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 5:20 pm

Yeah, but "who cares" is the answer some people give about this kind of thing.

But to them I ask: why do bathrooms have doors? I mean, who cares if some stranger sees you naked, right?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
m11stephen
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 8:25 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 1):
Yeah, but "who cares" is the answer some people give about this kind of thing.

But to them I ask: why do bathrooms have doors? I mean, who cares if some stranger sees you naked, right?

No one is forced to fly... I personally have better things to worry about when flying and in life in general then someone making a joke about my stuff down there. (I don't know what they'd joke about but that's irrelevant  ) I'm not a nudist in the sense that I go out of my way to expose myself but I'm also not going to avoid showering at a gym or something if it requires someone else being able to see my "privates." America just has a problem with modesty IMO.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 9:09 pm

Working link: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-b...-Scanner-Reveals-TMI-92971929.html

And people trying to defend this ridiculous and unnecessary overreach said the images were only a vague outline that didn't reveal anything.   
 
trigged
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 9:47 pm

Personally, I couldn't care less about the scanners, but having a TSA employee start beating the hell out of his co-workers in front of everyone is a little disconcerting.
 
ikramerica
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 9:51 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
No one is forced to fly...

As I said, why do bathrooms have doors? Many illegal activities take place in bathrooms. Prostitution, drug deals, drug use, beatings, etc.

Why not just take all the doors off of bathrooms, no privacy at all, and solve that problem too? After all, "who cares" if someone sees you naked? Nobody is forcing you to use a public restroom...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 10:11 pm

Quoting trigged (Reply 4):
but having a TSA employee start beating the hell out of his co-workers in front of everyone is a little disconcerting.

Not really. His supervisor committed sexual harassment, which is a BIG no-no in the work place. If I were the arrested TSA employee, I would sue the TSA and the supervisor.

BUT.....at the same time, the TSA employee should have never assaulted anyone in the first place, a big no-no as well.

So who is at fault? Both parties.

The supervisor should have either been 1) Placed on administrative leave without pay or... 2) fired.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 10:29 pm

I've never wanted these installed in airports since I heard about the technology. When I worked at the airport we knew many of the TSA workers at the security checkpoints. Throughout the course of my day I would go through the screening several times as I'd go to the gate and return to a ticket counter or baggage claim area. The TSA agents that I knew are now in a position where they could see me in essence nude every time I went to a gate. And, not just me, the female agents I worked with, flight attendants, pilots, and every other airport worker that frequently went through to the terminal.

Abuse of the technology was bound to happen. Whatever your work environment is now, be it an airport or an office environment would you feel comfortable if you were essentially electronically strip searched on your way to work by someone you knew everyday?
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
trigged
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 11:36 pm

Airframe,

I would agree that the agent should have filed a complaint, sued, etc BEFORE the assault, but after that he loses any right to do that IMHO. The agent's temper, pride, or immaturity took him to the level where he resorted to violence. There is a HUGE difference between getting razzed about your "manhood" and smacking the crap out of someone with a nightstick.

If he wanted to seek action because he was offended, then he should have done that. He resorted to his fists so he got his payback, now its time for him to take the punishment for his actions.

Personally, I would have returned the comments and goaded the supervisor into going through the scanner, or remarking about how my "small manhood" was satisfying the supervisor's wife. But, that's just me.  
 
AirframeAS
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 11:41 pm

Quoting trigged (Reply 8):

I wonder if this agent reported abuse to higher ups and if he documented anything during the abuse..... If so, then he may have some sort of a case against the TSA and his supervisor in a court of law, that is if the TSA did not do anything to help this agent.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
m11stephen
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 06, 2010 11:45 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
As I said, why do bathrooms have doors? Many illegal activities take place in bathrooms. Prostitution, drug deals, drug use, beatings, etc.

Why not just take all the doors off of bathrooms, no privacy at all, and solve that problem too? After all, "who cares" if someone sees you naked? Nobody is forcing you to use a public restroom...

Prostitution, drugs deals, drug use, etc. don't put the safety of hundreds of people in imminence danger like terrorists do. Also, if I walked into a bathroom and the stall doors were gone I would choose, out of my own free will, to not use the bathroom and go somewhere else.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 12:26 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 10):
Prostitution, drugs deals, drug use, etc. don't put the safety of hundreds of people in imminence danger like terrorists do.

The panty bomber needed a lav. If he had been competent he would have put the safety of hundreds of people in imminent danger. So should we take off lav doors?

And in an airplane on a 10-hour flight, you can't avoid using the lav. Sort of like how if you are going to hold down a professional job in modern society, you can't avoid getting on an airplane from time to time.

[Edited 2010-05-06 17:26:51]
 
trigged
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 1:08 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):

Quoting trigged (Reply 8):

I wonder if this agent reported abuse to higher ups and if he documented anything during the abuse..... If so, then he may have some sort of a case against the TSA and his supervisor in a court of law, that is if the TSA did not do anything to help this agent.

Good question. Personally, I believe that his reaction indicates that he was a little too macho to have done that. I think if he would have had the rationality to report it to a supervisor higher than the one razzing him, he would not have taken as such a blow to his self-esteem. Involving supervisors above the involved one would have probably brought more razzing. Just be glad he was not armed with something more than a billy club or flashlight.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 1:16 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 10):
Also, if I walked into a bathroom and the stall doors were gone I would choose, out of my own free will, to not use the bathroom and go somewhere else.

You should visit the men's locker room at the High School I graduated from. There are no stalls.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
764
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 1:37 am

I am strongly opposed to the use of this technology and am very concerned that in a nation that is based on freedom and certain constitutional rights, many of the latter are now trampled upon in the name of "security", which is, in essence, the elimination of the former. We are moving towards an Orwellian society and I am genuinely scared by that. If we don't stop this mindset soon, then every new technology that can potentially be used for more surveillance or to subject you to more penetrating searches will be used under the cloak of security. It might be a little futuristic, but just imagine some scientist come up with a mind reading device. I am sure that the TSA would love to use one of those. And in the process they would also have access to your most intimate thoughts - just like they are now getting access to your most intimate body parts.

And then there is the medical issue that hasn't been sufficiently examined yet either. I am shocked by how easily the authorities are allowed to execute this mass-test of an insufficiently examined technology on millions of passengers who really have no other choice and are probably not even informed about the type of radiation they are exposed to by those scanners. And no, many people who fly don't have a choice. It's not like we are all just going on vacation or something. Many of us have to fly regularly for business. Of course we could choose to quit our jobs, dump our houses on the market, go on welfare and completely ruin the economy instead. But personally that is not an option for me. I love my country and try to do everything to help it out of these hard times. I just wish that my country would show its gratitude in a different fashion than by taking nude images of me every time I fly.....
 
soon7x7
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 3:10 am

Quoting 764 (Reply 14):

Understanding your concerns we have bigger problems than this currently in the country, however this is just one symptom of the degradation of the USA, but just for fun, a viagra dosage before the flight would be amusing at the checkpoint...that'l teach them...g...(they just might charge you for an xtra seat)   
 
Maverick623
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 3:36 am

Quoting trigged (Reply 8):
I would agree that the agent should have filed a complaint, sued, etc BEFORE the assault, but after that he loses any right to do that IMHO.

I disagree. Harassment is harassment. Some people react differently than others to it.... it still doesn't excuse what went on.

Quoting trigged (Reply 8):
There is a HUGE difference between getting razzed about your "manhood" and smacking the crap out of someone with a nightstick.

Unfortunately it appears that the abuse was systemic and had been going on for a while. This guy just happened to hit his breaking point. I can guarantee I could get you to do the same. It's human nature.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
No one is forced to fly

Just like no one is forced to hold a job, or have a stable residence. We don't just let cops into our homes, though. And having a job makes life more enjoyable (for the most part), just like flying.

Our government is not allowed to violate our right to privacy without probable cause, period. Nor are they allowed to effectively restrict our movement without cause.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
cschleic
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 3:44 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
Nobody is forcing you to use a public restroom...

Not necessarily true. Nature calling controls that. And I'm sure many women would have a very different take on that compared to the mostly male composition of a.netters.

The simple answer to too many complaints about things like this is that everything is a choice. Let's be serious...that's just not the case. If it were, let's do away with drunk driving laws - after all, nobody's forcing the accident victims to get in a car so they're really not victims, right?
 
cpd
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 4:14 am

Quoting cschleic (Reply 17):
The simple answer to too many complaints about things like this is that everything is a choice. Let's be serious...that's just not the case.

Really, being serious, you don't have to ready messages on airliners.net about these issues. You have a choice.  
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 9:34 am

I think the real issue here is the level of professionalism displayed by some in the TSA. TSO's, ESPECIALLY Supervisors, should take their jobs -- and their training -- much more seriously than this. I am all for joking around and lightening the mood in the workplace, but not at the expense of the co-worker and not to embarrass or disrespect him or her. Of course I do not speak for all TSO's or Supervisors, but apparently these individuals as well as others I have had the misfortune of dealing with in the past.

I am an advocate of the backscatter and millimeter wave technology because I think it provides a huge advantage and an important tool for screeners. In my opinion, it could eventually replace the outdated and limited metal detector because it is too easy to beat it. I think the technology could be advanced further and only display silhouettes of the individual to make the ACLU feel better about it -- I know things have been done like this in Germany and elsewhere. Unfortunately, people like this don't deserve to use this important safety equipment because they choose to use it to disrespect their co-workers.
 
quiet1
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 9:43 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 3):
Working link: http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-b....html

They have *got* to be kidding. The title of that article is ... wait for it ... :

Suspicious Package: TSA Worker Jailed After Junk Joke

  
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 9:58 am

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 20):
They have *got* to be kidding. The title of that article is ... wait for it ... :

Suspicious Package: TSA Worker Jailed After Junk Joke

You know the writer got a pretty good giggle from coming up with that one!
 
rb211tristar
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 1:27 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
No one is forced to fly...

Well, it's not always that cut and dry. My job requires me to travel extensively. So in a manner I am forced to fly. I can't get to Europe from the States on a boat efficiently enough to do my job. Yes, there are other jobs out there, but when you consider selling a house, moving your family, and starting your life over for a new job b/c you don't like where the airport security paradigm is going, the decision isn't so easy.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
America just has a problem with modesty IMO.

I'm with you here... which is why I have no problem with the machines. I've been through them myself... i don't see the big deal (no pun intended)  
 
trigged
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 1:47 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 19):
I think the real issue here is the level of professionalism displayed by some in the TSA. TSO's, ESPECIALLY Supervisors, should take their jobs -- and their training -- much more seriously than this.

Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make, albeit a little less directly. People that are charged with protecting airline travel at the most direct point are acting like a bunch of frat boys while on duty. I also enjoy a "fun" workplace environment as I joke, kid, prod, etc my fellow instructors, but there is a time and place for everything.
 
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fxramper
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 1:55 pm

Thought the psych check was suppose to be catching these guys?   
 
DUALRATED
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
As I said, why do bathrooms have doors?

Army bases, schools, truck stops, and a number of other public places have open toilet/ shower stalls
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FlyWhisperjets
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 3:12 pm

I might be wrong but I remember reading awhile ago about this privacy issue and IIRC the article said that the person looking at the screen can not actually see the person being scanned and vice versa. If something is seen on the image, they would contact the employees on the line to pull the person aside for additional screening. If this is not the procedure, it should be...As far as this childish incident goes, the supervisor needs to be terminated and the so called victim should also be termed because of the violence....I personally would not want either of these individuals screening me....Thinking about all of the times that I have gone through a TSA line, I have to say that I am always treated with respect. I also would like to add that I have 4 titanium screws and 2 bars in my back so I always have to explain why I set the machine off...
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dl767captain
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 3:23 pm

a problem with modesty IMO.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
As I said, why do bathrooms have doors? Many illegal activities take place in bathrooms. Prostitution, drug deals, drug use, beatings, etc.

the difference is doing drugs in the bathroom can't lead to killing a plane full of 200 people, just a little different

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
Why not just take all the doors off of bathrooms, no privacy at all,

No one is forced to use the bathroom either, it's not a right to use a public restroom

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
in a position where they could see me in essence nude every time I went to a gate.

From what i've been reading about the body scanners the screeners will be staffed in a different room or part of the airport and basically give the go ahead to the person monitoring the machine. This way no one around you will actually see the image, making this kind of joking possible but at least not to your face. Most of this joking is most likely because they were working together, i doubt any of them are going to start laughing at passengers when they are 5 feet away, which is why having the TSA screen the images in a separate location and give the go ahead a good idea
 
sankaps
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 3:24 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
No one is forced to fly...

I see. So why not make the lavs in airports and aircraft without doors too, as you only need to use them if you are in the airport or are flying, and no one is forcing you to do those either.  
 
764
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 3:41 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):

No one is forced to eat either....

No one is forced to eat.... Yet depriving somebody of food is a crime
So nobody makes you fly.... but nobody should be allowed to keep you from it either

Once again, I find it very disturbing that people think that it is perfectly acceptable to strip citizens of their constitutional rights just. Strangely enough, I have found that oftentimes the same people who have no problem with surrendering the right of privacy or free speech will get absolutely furious if somebody suggests more restrictive gun control. Apparently the right to carry firearms has become more important than the right to free speech and personal integrity. Very discomforting....
 
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fr8mech
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 4:46 pm

Quoting 764 (Reply 29):
Once again, I find it very disturbing that people think that it is perfectly acceptable to strip citizens of their constitutional rights just.

Don't you give up some Constitutional rights every time you get on an aircraft or enter a building equipped with a metal detector? This is just a different technology then a hand pat, an overt search or a standard metal detector.

We have already decided that the government has a compelling interest in preventing certain things from being brought on board aircraft. This new technology just makes searching and excluding these items more efficient.
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Ken777
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 07, 2010 6:05 pm

Quoting trigged (Reply 4):
Personally, I couldn't care less about the scanners, but having a TSA employee start beating the hell out of his co-workers in front of everyone is a little disconcerting.

And having the supervisor instigate the whole thing through ridiculing an employee is just as bad. We certainly don't need the supervisor working at the TSA with that poor a judgement level.

As for the employee who didn't back down - maybe someone willing to fight if the need arises would be a good thing in airport security. Even if he does have an itty-bitty wee-wee.  
 
N1120A
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 2:49 pm

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):

No one is forced to fly...

What does a private transaction involving public transportation and common carriers have to do with a government looking at people naked?

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 3):

And people trying to defend this ridiculous and unnecessary overreach said the images were only a vague outline that didn't reveal anything.

Absolutely. It goes along with the "well, I have nothing to hide" crowd.

Quoting trigged (Reply 4):
but having a TSA employee start beating the hell out of his co-workers in front of everyone is a little disconcerting.

Well, some would argue that the supervisor deserved it, but I do agree with you.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):


The supervisor should have either been 1) Placed on administrative leave without pay or... 2) fired.

Actually, only number 2. Fired immediately, though they should junk the nude-o-scope first.

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 10):
Prostitution, drugs deals, drug use, etc. don't put the safety of hundreds of people in imminence danger like terrorists do.

And what to do about those exploding breast implants?

Also, how many successful airborne terrorist attacks have there been in the US since the cockpit doors were fortified and we stopped acting like cowards when it comes to a plane full of people subduing a potential threat?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):

Don't you give up some Constitutional rights every time you get on an aircraft or enter a building equipped with a metal detector?

LIMITED Administrative search for weapons, explosives and incendiaries. That's it. You don't give up your right to be free from strip search. Hell, even Customs is limited in when they can go to such lengths, and they have far more power in this area than do the TSA.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):
This is just a different technology then a hand pat, an overt search or a standard metal detector.

No it isn't. Not even close. Its looking at people naked.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):

We have already decided that the government has a compelling interest in preventing certain things from being brought on board aircraft. This new technology just makes searching and excluding these items more efficient.

We have not decided anything. These are an absolute breach of the dignity of a person.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Ken777
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 3:20 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
What does a private transaction involving public transportation and common carriers have to do with a government looking at people naked?

This has to be one of the most boring arguments going around these days. I think it's pretty clear that the officers looking at the displays will be looking for more than physical attributes. Personally I can think of nothing more off-putting than to have to look at displays of the outline of men all day. (Male officers look at men and women officers look at women.)

The level of "nakedness" is so low that a scan of a senior TSA female executive was published to show just how mild the process is.

If one doesn't want to be scanned then a pat down is available, Or simply don't fly. With the risks of bombs on flights I doubt if many travelers will worry about your sensitivities over their security.
 
N1120A
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 4:14 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):

The level of "nakedness" is so low that a scan of a senior TSA female executive was published to show just how mild the process is.

Yeah, go ahead and keep believing that. Hence they were able to take a look at this guy's penis.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):

This has to be one of the most boring arguments going around these days.

Oh really? I guess boring is sometimes the right way to go.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
I think it's pretty clear that the officers looking at the displays will be looking for more than physical attributes.

Riiiight. Given that the TSA has pedophiles and other convicted felons in its ranks and all.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
With the risks of bombs on flights I doubt if many travelers will worry about your sensitivities over their security.

What risks? You mean the statistically insignificant risk of an actual, working bomb on a flight? Or do you mean the fact that a terrorist so dumb as to walk through a nude-o-scope with something that they can actually show (its not much) is likely to get caught anyway?

What's next? Everyone has to take the famous 3 bottles of colonoscopy laxatives and evacuate to the TSA's satisfaction before boarding? Or perhaps all women with breast implants are banned from flying?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Ken777
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 4:34 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
What risks? You mean the statistically insignificant risk of an actual, working bomb on a flight?

Remember the Shoe Bomber? The Crotch Bomber?

What are the odds that 4 groups of fanatics can hijack 4 airliners on the same morning, bring down the Twin Towers in New Your and crash into the Pentagon? Until 9/11 that was so statistically insignificant as to be considered impossible,

So it is not the level of risk that counts, but the fact that there are actual risks. And in aviation we tend to have higher standards of safety rules than in other areas.
 
N1120A
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RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 4:54 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):

Remember the Shoe Bomber? The Crotch Bomber?

Notice the word SUCCESSFUL? Lets take your examples.

Shoe Bomber - In the immediate wake of 9/11. Was carrying plastic explosives that would not be shown on the Nude-O-Scope anyway, given that we now have the shoe carnival. He tried to light plastic explosives with a lighter, and was thus a complete moron and was subdued immediately. Even if he kept his shoes on in the pedophile machine, it is questionable whether anything would have been detected anyway, as they don't do ETD like the far better puffer machines did.

Panty Bomber - Also unsuccessful because of the vigilant public. His device would not have been found on the Nude-O-Scope. The puffer machine, which doesn't look at people naked and which we had years ago and got rid of, would have found it.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
What are the odds that 4 groups of fanatics can hijack 4 airliners on the same morning, bring down the Twin Towers in New Your and crash into the Pentagon? Until 9/11 that was so statistically insignificant as to be considered impossible,

Stop screaming about 9/11. That was 9 years ago in a world where cockpit doors were made of cheap particle board and we didn't bother beating the ever loving hell out of terrorists carrying box cutters. 9/11 was made impossible approximately 6 months after it happened, and brought with it a significantly enhanced awareness among people flying that no security theater can replicate. Certainly not invading the privacy of billions of people.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 5:25 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
The level of "nakedness" is so low that a scan of a senior TSA female executive was published to show just how mild the process is.

If you honestly think that was an accurate representation, I have a bridge in NY to sell you.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
With the risks of bombs on flights I doubt if many travelers will worry about your sensitivities over their security.

Completely irrelevant. If everyone of them also wanted to jump off a cliff, you would follow suit?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Or simply don't fly.

Oh yes. Allow the government to scare you into taking away your right to travel.... and yes, it is a right.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
What are the odds that 4 groups of fanatics can hijack 4 airliners on the same morning, bring down the Twin Towers in New Your and crash into the Pentagon?

The probability is one, because it happened. You obviously know nothing about how to plan and coordinate an attack; it may be difficult, but not impossible. You do realize it took them 3 times to pull something like that off?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
Until 9/11 that was so statistically insignificant as to be considered impossible,

Did you even bother reading the 9/11 report? It was very much a possibility, so much so that several flight instructors actually reported their behavior to the Feds, who promptly dropped the ball on it, even though they had several memos at the time stating that such an attack was not only feasible, but probably at least in the planning stages.

Hell, I demonstrated the concept in MSFS when I was 12.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 8:00 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):
If you honestly think that was an accurate representation, I have a bridge in NY to sell you.

I went through the machine when it was being tested at LHR some years back. Got to look at my image and basically felt sorry for anyone who would have to do that all day. The photo released by TSA was a reasonable representation of what is shown on the display, so you can keep your bridge.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):
Oh yes. Allow the government to scare you into taking away your right to travel.... and yes, it is a right.

You have a right to travel, but a commercial flight is a product that you can buy, or not buy. If you choose to purchase a ticket for a commercial flight then be prepared to follow all related rules, regulations and laws.
 
Aeroflot001
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:43 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Mon May 10, 2010 8:15 pm

Great job on the part on the TSA to show that they are very serious and committed to the job they do right here at my hometown airport. I know that all of us have a little bit of perversion inside but this was a complete loss of control on the part of the agent commenting on his friends size in a very derogatory way and of course this led to someone being very pissed off about it. At my school perversion levels are at the max with penis jokes going right and left but generally being ignored. The fights that do occur are generally about girls however they can be for much stupider reasons.

All in all id say both of them deserve the cut. Fortunately I can still say that Ive been blessed with the airport security. I have never had any major incident of any kind, just a simple secondary screening here and there with the wand.

I saw the airport scanner the other day but it appears that the amount of passengers that actually pass through it isn't very big at all.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Wed May 12, 2010 12:24 am

Quoting trigged (Reply 4):
Personally, I couldn't care less about the scanners, but having a TSA employee start beating the hell out of his co-workers in front of everyone is a little disconcerting.

Are you surprised, though. Most TSA agents seem to be one cut above fast food work.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):
Don't you give up some Constitutional rights every time you get on an aircraft or enter a building equipped with a metal detector? This is just a different technology then a hand pat, an overt search or a standard metal detector.

But its an entirely different technology. Metal detectors detect only metal on you. It doesn't reveal anything at all, it just beeps. This is an electronic strip search.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):
We have already decided that the government has a compelling interest in preventing certain things from being brought on board aircraft. This new technology just makes searching and excluding these items more efficient.

What if there's a terrorist attack at a mall, grocery store or subway station? Does the government then have a compelling interest to install these devices at those places?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
The level of "nakedness" is so low that a scan of a senior TSA female executive was published to show just how mild the process is.

A CNN reporter had to put a metal plate in his pants when he did his TV report.
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8167
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Wed May 12, 2010 1:25 am

Quoting aa757first (Reply 40):
What if there's a terrorist attack at a mall, grocery store or subway station? Does the government then have a compelling interest to install these devices at those places?

Maybe, maybe not, but the mall most certainly would have the right.

The government owns the airways and as a condition to use those airways, in a commercial airliner, operated by an airline, the government has decided that certain items may not be brought ontp an aircraft. It is that simple. You don't like how an airline or the TSA screens for the stuff, don't fly.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 2000
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Wed May 12, 2010 2:21 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 2):
I personally have better things to worry about when flying and in life in general then someone making a joke about my stuff down there. (I don't know what they'd joke about but that's irrelevant

I know how you feel. Last time I walked through one of these scanners they decided that they needed to book me an extra seat on the plane.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Wed May 12, 2010 6:33 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
The government owns the airways and as a condition to use those airways, in a commercial airliner, operated by an airline, the government has decided that certain items may not be brought ontp an aircraft. It is that simple. You don't like how an airline or the TSA screens for the stuff, don't fly.

Are you suggesting that airport screening is not subject to any limit at all?
 
User avatar
fr8mech
Posts: 8167
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Wed May 12, 2010 12:46 pm

Quoting aa757first (Reply 43):
Are you suggesting that airport screening is not subject to any limit at all?

I'm suggesting that the government has a compelling interest to keep certain material and objects, and yes, people, off the aircraft. It is obvious, that the tools currently in use, and the operators that use those tools are inadequate to the task of excluding the prohibited stuff. If a tool or a technology is developed that can be used to mitigate the human component of the screening process, it should be used. It is unfortunate, but the TSA, and their international counterparts, have to be perfect, everytime...but a terrorist organization has to be lucky only once. Therefore, the various security agencies need to be allowed to use what tools and technology are available to them.

Look, I chafe at government intervention and invasiveness into my everyday life, but the government has an obligation to to police the airways. I am not required to fly, therefore, I choose to allow the government to search me and my possesions prior to boarding an aircraft. I am willingly surrendering my 4th amendment rights, in a very narrow circumstance, in order to go where I'm going faster. I travel to NY today. I can travel 6 hours (from my door to my brother's) or I can drive 12 hours. I choose to fly, therefore I submit to, what in most other circumstances, would be an illegal search.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
Ego Bibere Capulus, Ut Aliis Sit Vivere
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Wed May 12, 2010 3:44 pm

Quoting aa757first (Reply 40):
A CNN reporter had to put a metal plate in his pants when he did his TV report.

So he was either shy, or had an old fella that was larger (or smaller) than would be appropriate to show on TV.  

The differences are that (1) he was not flying and (2) only a male TSA screener would be viewing the screen if he was going to fly - not everyone in the country watching CNN.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14218
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Wed May 12, 2010 4:22 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 1):
But to them I ask: why do bathrooms have doors?

I must have missed that news report on bombs being placed in bathrooms.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
As I said, why do bathrooms have doors? Many illegal activities take place in bathrooms. Prostitution, drug deals, drug use, beatings, etc.

None of which include blowing hundreds of people to bits.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 40):
Are you surprised, though. Most TSA agents seem to be one cut above fast food work

The pay is one cut above fast food work, what's your point?
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9884
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 13, 2010 11:40 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Actually, only number 2. Fired immediately...

Sooooo........I have to ask: has the TSA fired this Supervisor yet???
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26656
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Thu May 13, 2010 6:19 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):

Maybe, maybe not, but the mall most certainly would have the right.

To look at someone naked? No. Certainly not with all kinds of extremely explicit privacy notices.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
You don't like how an airline or the TSA screens for the stuff, don't fly.

Another ridiculous argument. The PUBLIC, not the government, owns the air ways. We set up the government to take care of certain tasks for us, but have a contract with them (written on cannabis paper, called the Constitution) limiting what they can do. Flying is public transportation (look up "common carrier") and relies on massive government, and hence taxpayer, funding. You don't get to look at someone naked when the board a bus.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: TSA Assault And Body Scanner

Fri May 14, 2010 5:10 am

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 44):
Therefore, the various security agencies need to be allowed to use what tools and technology are available to them.

What about just regular strip searches?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 46):
None of which include blowing hundreds of people to bits.

Terrorists want to kill people and scare those that are still living. Yes, they seem very interested in airplanes, but they'll do what they can. Once the first mall or office building or supermarket is randomly blown up, will it be okay to put these machines there?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 46):
The pay is one cut above fast food work, what's your point?

That I'm not so surprised there was a fight.

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