Vintage HiFi/Audio.... What To Know What Look For

desertjets · Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:18 pm

So in my usual eBay browsing I come along this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110833499690...MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

For those of you that don't care to click through it is a late 70s vintage Toshiba SA-320 stereo receiver. Seller is looking for US$56.99 obo for it. Don't know if it is a good price or if it is in good condition (it looks well loved) -- just using it as an example.

My thinking is that it would be nice to have a decent little home stereo that is a decided step up from the rinky dink AM/FM/CD/iPod dock thing I have now. I would want an a/v receiver with a built-in AM/FM tuner and I wouldn't mind finding a decent record player as well (there is enough older music that both my GF and I like that would be nice to collect on LPs), and if there was a powered iPod dock device that could connect through the aux-in even better. But I could deal with a y-cable from the headphone out on the iPod to the aux in. Oh and speakers.... probably better that those aren't vintage unless they are in especially good condition.

What out there should I be looking at for.... probably not wanting to spend more than 2-300 dollars tops.

Molykote · Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:41 pm

You will not beat these speakers for the money ($75 each and free shipping).
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_108P152...52.html?search=primus_152&skipvs=T

Now you're at $220 for your receiver and speakers shipped.

You could get a reasonable iPod dock with the leftover money but you'd eliminate any chance of a turntable at that point. The quality difference between using a mini-to-RCA cable from your iPod to receiver and using a well designed iPod dock is meaningful in my experience. In my setup I've gone a step farther and picked up a Wadia dock (which provides a digital signal to my DAC direct from the iPod - a capability that only a couple products on the market have).

Superfly · Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:22 am

Quoting desertjets (Thread starter):

You're talking my language.

Some other brands to consider from this era is Marantz, Sansui, Luxman and Yamaha.

Check out this website;

http://www.classic-audio.com/

Scroll through their database of fine classic, high-end audio. Complete with photos, specs and all other information.
I'm partial to Marantz and I have a quadraphonic set up.
For stereo, you're open to many more options.

desertjets · Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
You're talking my language.
Some other brands to consider from this era is Marantz, Sansui, Luxman and Yamaha.

I knew you'd show up. I sorta knew that Marantz was kind of the gold standard of this era of hifi. For a while I thought they'd be completely out of my price range, but browsing eBay they seem more reasonably priced. $100.00 for a lower-end receiver seems doable. But in the interest of saving money I"d probably stick to be better spec consumer grade model from Toshiba, Pioneer, Technics/Panasonic, etc..... No matter the brand I do love the aesthetic of them, the type face used and how solid the controls feel. I remember my grandfather had a Sherwood receiver and I really wanted it after my grandmother passes away but I didn't speak up quick enough as my parents were cleaning out her apartment.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Check out this website;

http://www.classic-audio.com/

There goes the rest of my day right there.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 1):
You could get a reasonable iPod dock with the leftover money but you'd eliminate any chance of a turntable at that point. The quality difference between using a mini-to-RCA cable from your iPod to receiver and using a well designed iPod dock is meaningful in my experience. In my setup I've gone a step farther and picked up a Wadia dock (which provides a digital signal to my DAC direct from the iPod - a capability that only a couple products on the market have).

Do you have a link to anything? I'd think anything would be better than a $10.00 y-cable from RadioShack.

WildcatYXU · Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 3):
Do you have a link to anything? I'd think anything would be better than a $10.00 y-cable from RadioShack.

I don't think you want to go with the Wadia...but I think the Pure i-20 dock that's linked to the page would work well.

http://www.amazon.com/Wadia-171iTran...=mp3&ie=UTF8&qid=1330702813&sr=1-1

Dreadnought · Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 3):

I knew you'd show up. I sorta knew that Marantz was kind of the gold standard of this era of hifi. For a while I thought they'd be completely out of my price range, but browsing eBay they seem more reasonably priced.

Marantz has had its highs and lows. They may have been top of the field at one time but I remember having a very cheap plastic Marantz stereo in my college apartment that was well under $100 new back in the 80s, and sounded it. I understand that their reputation has come back some.

DL_Mech · Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:09 pm

Audiokarma.org is the site that I go to.

A good starter receiver is the PioneerSX-780. Lots available on eBay, a good honest receiver.

Dont overlook mid 70s-1982 Realistic receivers. Made by Foster Electronics, they put out some quality units. Get an STA-2100 if you can afford it.

http://picasaweb.google.com/113831401242136995481/

A lot of people like Marantz, I have heard that later ones (1983+) are made by Phillips and are not desireable.

Some of the lower end Technics receivers have large "stereo amplifier" chips mounted on the heat sink instead of separate transistors. I have an SA-303 and the sound is not great compared to other units of the era

[Edited 2012-03-02 08:20:43]

WildcatYXU · Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:37 pm

I'm surprised to see that nobody around here likes harman/kardon. They used to make very decent amplifiers and receivers...actually they still do. There are some nice looking H/K receivers on ebay even now.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Receivers-/5...id=p3286.c0.m14.l1513&gbr=1&_pgn=1

Superfly · Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:57 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 6):
A lot of people like Marantz, I have heard that later ones (1983+) are made by Phillips and are not desireable.

Marantz started to slide as early as 1980 model year. Just within the last 15 years, they started making products in the USA again - Maryland to be exact.

Quoting desertjets (Reply 3):
There goes the rest of my day right there.

Just 1 day?

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 7):
I'm surprised to see that nobody around here likes harman/kardon.

They're ok but that's about it. They were never aesthetically pleasing and other brands made superior products.

Here is my rig.

desertjets · Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:06 pm

A few more examples of what I am finding:

http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=9518482
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=9511072
http://www.shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=9496638

Two Technics receivers and a Yamaha.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
I don't think you want to go with the Wadia...but I think the Pure i-20 dock that's linked to the page would work well.

http://www.amazon.com/Wadia-171iTran...r=1-1

For $500+ bucks I'd rather go with the $6.99 Belkin y-cable for the iPod. But the Pure i-20 looks interesting and if it delivers better sound quality and keeps the iPod charged all the better.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 6):
Dont overlook mid 70s-1982 Realistic receivers. Made by Foster Electronics, they put out some quality units. Get an STA-2100 if you can afford it.

I was wondering about those old RadioShack units in the back of my mind. I remember in the 80s they just seemed very pricey for what it was.

mmedford · Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:14 pm

real vintage stuff has tubes!

Type-Rated · Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:22 pm

Ebay can be a great place to find good vintage audio gear, but you have to know your prices. Some sellers think just because something is vintage it's worth a fortune, which is not always true.

Also while there is a good selection of stuff from the 70's, watch out for the BPC items from the mid-late 80's. This was a time when famous brands were being purchased by cheap companies and turned their brand names into crap with crap equipment.
In order to have a great outcome you just have to do research. The www.audiokarma.org website, mentioned above does have great discussions about this very subject.

WildcatYXU · Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):

They're ok but that's about it. They were never aesthetically pleasing and other brands made superior products.

Beauty is in the eye of the be(er)holder and while other brands really made (and still make) superior products, I'm not sure if the Japanese mass production was (is) superior. Rather not.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Here is my rig.

Very nice!

My old stuff was left behind when I moved to Canada

Quoting desertjets (Reply 9):
Two Technics receivers and a Yamaha.

I like the Yamaha and the first Technics. The Technics is a bit pricey though.

Quoting desertjets (Reply 9):
But the Pure i-20 looks interesting and if it delivers better sound quality and keeps the iPod charged all the better.

It has a 24 bit D/A converter and even a digital output. May be worth the money.

desertjets · Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 12):
The Technics is a bit pricey though.

Apparently that model was $680.00 when it was new in 1981.... which is roughly $1600 in today's dollars. And given the general downslope in prices for electronics that was a higher end unit back then. Probably why it is being bidded up relatively early in the goodwill auction.

Superfly · Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:00 pm

Quoting mmedford (Reply 10):
real vintage stuff has tubes!

Another site to checkout is this;
http://www.tapeheads.net/

You will need a nice open reel to reel tape deck and cassette deck.

You'll also need some sweet audiophile grade vinyl.

DL_Mech · Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 9):
I was wondering about those old RadioShack units in the back of my mind. I remember in the 80s they just seemed very pricey for what it was.

Radio shack gear was always overpriced. Items frequently went on sale for much less....Check it out:

http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/

[Edited 2012-03-02 13:34:01]

Confuscius · Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:50 pm

I look for a nice big speaker like this...

Molykote · Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 4):
I don't think you want to go with the Wadia...but I think the Pure i-20 dock that's linked to the page would work well.

http://www.amazon.com/Wadia-171iTran...r=1-1

Despite owning the Wadia (and mentioning it above), I agree with you.

At the time I bought mine, the Wadia was the only game in town if you wanted an iPod dock that would output digitally.

If I were buying again I'd get that i-20 or a comepeting Cambridge Audio product. I actually wrote a fairly critical review of the Wadia, but the sound quality is pretty great (though I am sure it's negligibly different that other digital docks).

I kind of assumed the Wadia was out of the question anyway based on the OT's budget.

Quoting desertjets (Reply 3):
Do you have a link to anything? I'd think anything would be better than a $10.00 y-cable from RadioShack.

I used a Pioneer IDK-01 prior to the Wadia. It's a pretty nice dock with analog RCA outputs. However, they don't make it anymore. I haven't shopped around for replacements so I don't have a link to share.

Especially for the money, the Pure i-20 above sounds like your best option.

Devilfish · Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Marantz started to slide as early as 1980 model year.

Quoting mmedford (Reply 10):
real vintage stuff has tubes!

Here's one that appreciated in value and remains desirable.....

.
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/pics/0008b.jpg

For a later receiver.....

.
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/pics/0018.jpg

[Edited 2012-03-02 20:26:44]

Devilfish · Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 7):
I'm surprised to see that nobody around here likes harman/kardon. They used to make very decent amplifiers and receivers

That's a nice, old TA230 in that list...but it would require a lot of work and TLC to get it to sing again.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/harman_ta230ta_23_stereo_festiva.html

http://hudsonvalleyhifi.com/vintage-...-230-stereo-festival-tube-receiver

The TA260 at the bottom of the second page might spare the buyer from most of the aggravation, and also has a phono section for the OP's vinyl yearning.....

http://quiltron.net/products/x-e-sal...s/audio/hk_ta-260/hk_ta-260-04.jpg

Although at $550, it could push all but the very avid bottleheads towards more powerful, better spec'd, and definitely more practical modern equivalents.

zippyjet · Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:18 am

I own this model receiver. However it's in my storage room. It was a victim of a sewage flood in my apartment about six years ago. When I have some extra $$$ I'm planning to get it refurbished/restored. Some of the companies that work on vintage Marantz receivers mine is from 1975 use energy saving and longer lasting LED lights that look identical to the originals. Over the years, the lamps in my receiver tended to burn out frequently. Marantz made some amazing stuff from it's inception in the late 1940's till 1979 or so. I feel it's worth getting restored.

Best of luck!

Superfly · Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:11 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 20):
I own this model receiver. However it's in my storage room. It was a victim of a sewage flood in my apartment about six years ago. When I have some extra $$$ I'm planning to get it refurbished/restored. Some of the companies that work on vintage Marantz receivers mine is from 1975 use energy saving and longer lasting LED lights that look identical to the originals. Over the years, the lamps in my receiver tended to burn out frequently. Marantz made some amazing stuff from it's inception in the late 1940's till 1979 or so. I feel it's worth getting restored.

Sorry to hear about that but I do know of a few places that can restore your old receiver.

I use a Marantz 4400 quadraphonic receiver.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 18):
Here's one that appreciated in value and remains desirable.....

My Marantz 4400 has front & rear channel pre-amp line outs to plug in to an external amplifier. Ideally I'd like to buy buy vacuum tube amps for the front & rear channels (quadraphonic).
Although, Marantz had made some impressive solid state amps such as the 510.

Devilfish · Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 20):

Had this for a while driving 3-way DIY speakers with 12" woofers in 1-3/4" thk solid wood baffles.....

.
http://www.classicaudio.com/value/mz/1250.jpg

Only way to have half-decent sounding rig short of buying brand-new (preserve of the rich, not locally available, and taxed outrageously when it is) was to rummage through junked electronics from Japan and elsewhere at the Port Area, or from second hand shops downtown (except if one worked abroad and brought gear home), and building your own speakers.

The combination was fantastic until the amp started leaking DC, blowing tweeters and soon even the main drivers. A tech friend replaced the power transistors but the PCBs proved to be more intractable as no amount of Deoxit and fine jumper wires solved the problem. The high humidity didn't help any. He gave up so a new, lower power integrated from the same maker finally replaced it.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Ideally I'd like to buy buy vacuum tube amps for the front & rear channels (quadraphonic).

Purists would consider that a sacrilege.

However, two 510s would really be a blast!

[Edited 2012-03-04 04:15:46]

Superfly · Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 22):
Purists would consider that a sacrilege.

Why?
What would be a "purist" pre-amp?
The Marantz 4400 is a very respected unit among audiophiles.

WildcatYXU · Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
. Ideally I'd like to buy buy vacuum tube amps for the front & rear channels (quadraphonic).

You're not the only one who want's to go back to tubes. I'd like to do it in the future too. Owning a turntable again is definitely among my plans. Should by a Tesla (because of my roots), ideally NC450 (it was sold as Lenco L450 too) or MC 400. That will be combined with an tube phono amp and single ended A class power amps. Of course, that requires old style, high efficiency speakers. Ideally I'd like to build it myself. If it won't work, I'll look for something vintage. If that fails, the old country has a solution for the problem.
here's the phono/pre amp: http://www.jj-electronic.com/index.p...m_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=32
and here's the power amp: http://www.jj-electronic.com/index.p...m_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=31

Of course, the last solution is pricey, so I'll try to avoid it. Just to show the complete picture, here are the above mentioned turntables (sorry, both links are in Czech):

NC450: http://starestroje.blog.cz/1009/gramofon-tesla-nc-450-hi-fi
MC400: http://starestroje.blog.cz/0810/gramofon-tesla-mc-400

The MC400 was my last turntable back in the old country. I used it with a DIY phono-amp (Actidamp MK III) and a H/K AVR 10 receiver and a DIY speaker set.

Superfly · Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 24):

A lot of audiophile swear by belt-drive but I still prefer a high-end direct-drive turntable.

My favorite turntable is the Luxman PD-444.
You can mount two tone arms to this.
This is a precision high turntable that is very heavy. Requires two men to carry.

http://web.me.com/charlievallejo1/Si...s/SOLD_Luxman_PD444_Turntable.html

Also the Marantz 6300

At the moment, I have a Denon DP-47 and Technics 1200 but I'd like to trade that for a Technics 1300 or Technics 1650.

WildcatYXU · Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
A lot of audiophile swear by belt-drive but I still prefer a high-end direct-drive turntable.

Sure. It's IMHO a question of personal preferences. I may end up with an SL 1200 too, since it's way easier to buy than the old Tesla turntables.

NoUFO · Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:18 pm

Somebody has just sold this Braun Atelier rack including speakers for as little as € 1250. I don't get it, unless perhaps at least one part is beyond repair.

Braun built the Atelier line from '79 through '91 I believe. They are very much sought after, and you can find much of Braun's design philosophy from the 70s in modern Apple products

Devilfish · Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:52 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Why?
What would be a "purist" pre-amp?

Sorry, no offense meant 'Fly.

It's not the preamp itself. There's just a certain sector that tends to view "quads" askance...more so when tube gear gets mixed up in those.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
Also the Marantz 6300

I remember drooling at magazine ads of this during college.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 24):
here's the phono/pre amp: http://www.jj-electronic.com/index.p...m_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=32
and here's the power amp: http://www.jj-electronic.com/index.p...id=31

Very nice!

Superfly · Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:50 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 28):
I remember drooling at magazine ads of this during college.

I'm still drooling.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 28):
Sorry, no offense meant 'Fly. It's not the preamp itself. There's just a certain sector that tends to view "quads" askance...more so when tube gear gets mixed up in those.

Understood. The proper way to listen to quad was on quadraphonic reel to reel tape. Unfortunately there were only 134 releases on quad reel.
None of the 3 different incompatible LP systems worked well.
Quad 8track has excellent separation like the reel to reel tape but has all the disadvantages of an 8track and audiophiles never took that format seriously. There were a lot of quad 8track releases.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 26):
I may end up with an SL 1200 too, since it's way easier to buy than the old Tesla turntables.

True but it's fully manual. I bought my Techincs 1200 brand new when I was in college in 1993. The whole high-end audiophile thing was new to me at the time. Now I'm aware of other models that are even better.
I like the Technics 1300 because it's a fully automatic version of the 1200.
There have been a few times when I've fell asleep listening to an album and ended up wearing down the needle in the lead-out groove for 8 - 10 hours straight.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 27):
Somebody has just sold this Braun Atelier rack including speakers for as little as € 1250. I don't get it, unless perhaps at least one part is beyond repair.

That is an interesting looking unit.

Vintage HiFi/Audio.... What To Know What Look For

Vintage HiFi/Audio.... What To Know What Look For

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