Didn't know he had Canadian citizenship. Right, eh ?  http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...tics-silly-season-95740.html?hp=l3

How dumb does he think the electorate is ? Even some GOP people won't give him a pass on this, but by 2016 likely they'll have forgotten. Hopefully the Dems will continue to play this.

Most Americans for very good reasons will not be familiar with what's required to fenounce your citizenship up here, but the whole process takes months, so Senator Cruz will likely remain a Canadian into 2014.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter): Hopefully the Dems will continue to play this.

I'd rather they not. We don't need the Democrats at large to fall prey to the birther shenanigans that have yet to go away.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter): Hopefully the Dems will continue to play this.

Hopefully the Democrats will stay far away and wait to see whether the birthers will be all over Cruz or choose to be exposed as the racists they claimed they never were...

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 1): I'd rather they not. We don't need the Democrats at large to fall prey to the birther shenanigans that have yet to go away.

I know I don't have a dog in the hunt (except if I don't know I'm an American ...) but I want to see Cruz and his ilk twist in the wind.

IMHO, and I know I will get pilloried for this, but the Tea Partiers illuminate the worst of America. Which, again IMHO, in the larger picture America is a generally fair and certainly generous country. My fair bit of time in NC in the 90s showed me that Canadians, for example, can learn a lot about civic-mindedness from Americans.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3): see Cruz and his ilk twist in the wind.

Cruz will twist for his policies, not his place of birth.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter): Hopefully the Dems will continue to play this.

Everything I've seen so far, suggests that the mainstream democrats won't touch this with a 20-feet poker. On the other hand, some of the more desperate birthers have declared Cruz inelligible, owing to their rather, erh, unique interpretation of US law.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter): Didn't know he had Canadian citizenship

Well the important thing is that if needed he has always had access to good healthcare and he didn't ever have to pay anything into it....  

Tugg

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter): Didn't know he had Canadian citizenship. Right, eh ?

I told you two months ago.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 2): the birthers will be all over Cruz or choose to be exposed as the racists they claimed they never were...

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 1): to the birther shenanigans that have yet to go away.

There is a difference between Obama and Cruz in this case. The difference is: There is actual hard and fast evidence that Cruz was born in Canada and there is no evidence that Obama was born outside the United States.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8): There is actual hard and fast evidence that Cruz was born in Canada and there is no evidence that Obama was born outside the United States.

...and the evidence of his birth within the states is pretty sketchy, too!  

Quoting sccutler (Reply 9): Quoting seb146 (Reply 8): There is actual hard and fast evidence that Cruz was born in Canada and there is no evidence that Obama was born outside the United States. ...and the evidence of his birth within the states is pretty sketchy, too!

Lemme guess..are you one of those "I only dislike him for his policies..." types as well?

Well we know that Justin Bieber and Ted Cruz have Canada in common, but there's still one critical difference between them. One's a self-appointed megastar who attracts the undying love and affection of millions of mindless people just looking for someone to cling to and live vicariously through without realizing the disaster that he's brought to his industry, and the other is Justin Bieber.

-Mir

Quoting sccutler (Reply 9): ...and the evidence of his birth within the states is pretty sketchy, too!

Sure, if by "sketchy" you mean "Completely and totally verified to everyone with an iota of critical thinking skills and common sense with more evidence than any other prior president has provided," then yes, absolutely.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 10): Lemme guess..are you one of those "I only dislike him for his policies..." types as well?

Assuming you mean President Obama, then no, his declared policies are not so offensive (many of his stated policy points in the 2008 campaign were very appealing); about his actions, I am less sanguine.

Quoting Mir (Reply 11): Well we know that Justin Bieber and Ted Cruz have Canada in common, but there's still one critical difference between them. One's a self-appointed megastar who attracts the undying love and affection of millions of mindless people just looking for someone to cling to and live vicariously through without realizing the disaster that he's brought to his industry, and the other is Justin Bieber.

I'm actually embarassed that the Bieb is Canadian. He's a self-appointed mega knob.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter): How dumb does he think the electorate is ?

Extremely. The things he says are things that no Harvard-educated lawyer could possibly actually believe. In fact, he's told a number of blatant lies. Why? Because he's smart enough to know that his followers will not fact check his claims, nor will they listen to any fact checkers. Fact checkers, in their mind, are just liberal shims. He's a cynic of the worst kind; not only does he think he's better than his electorate, but he's going to take advantage of them to win the election.

That said, I will not engage in Birtherism. Mr. Cruz is a natural-born American citizen. Place of birth is only relevant if the parents' citizenship is non-US. Otherwise, all children born to US citizens are natural-born citizens unless they renounce that citizenship at some point.

Now, whether someone with a dual citizenship can become President is a question I can't answer. The Constitution is silent on such matters (I don't think it occurred to the Framers).

I very much hope he wins the nomination (he won't), because Mrs. Clinton will win by a landslide that will make Reagan v. Mondale look like a close race.

Quoting Mir (Reply 11): One's a self-appointed megastar who attracts the undying love and affection of millions of mindless people just looking for someone to cling to and live vicariously through without realizing the disaster that he's brought to his industry, and the other is Justin Bieber.

  
A better punchline would have been "and the other is a teenage singer."

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): A better punchline would have been "and the other is a teenage singer."

Whether what Biebs does can be quantified as "singing" is a subject for debate.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): A better punchline would have been "and the other is a teenage singer."

I am not the master of punchlines, it's true. But one can try.  

-Mir

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): Because he's smart enough to know that his followers will not fact check his claims,

Must be Michelle Bachman writing his talking points. She needs a new gig now anyway.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter): How dumb does he think the electorate is ? Even some GOP people won't give him a pass on this, but by 2016 likely they'll have forgotten. Hopefully the Dems will continue to play this.

Because all we need are liberal birthers... let's hope they don't play this at all and take the high road

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): Now, whether someone with a dual citizenship can become President is a question I can't answer. The Constitution is silent on such matters (I don't think it occurred to the Framers).

I doubt he'll make it far enough for the SCOTUS to act.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19): Because all we need are liberal birthers... let's hope they don't play this at all and take the high road

There may be a few, but I doubt that the Left will accumulate the sheer numbers that the Right did. For one thing, this doesn't have the trappings of a conspiracy. The whole point of the Birther charade was that Mr. Obama was lying about where he was born. And that all the newspaper birth announcements and attestations from hospital staff that they remember his birth (and the birth of a mixed-race kid with the last name Obama in Hawaii at time would have been one to stand out in the heads of hospital staff), and the birth certificate were forgeries.

In this case, Mr. Cruz has been quite open and honest about having been born in Canada. So what we have is a bit of a legal debate, but one that has monumental legal precedence towards Mr. Cruz being eligible. The basic facts of his birth are, unlike in Mr. Obama's case, not in dispute.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 1): We don't need the Democrats at large to fall prey to the birther shenanigans that have yet to go away.

I don't believe that the majority of Democrats will drop to the Birther's level, but I do believe that they will rub it in the Birther's faces big time.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 3): I know I will get pilloried for this, but the Tea Partiers illuminate the worst of America.

Pilloried by me? Nah - I put you on my RR list instead.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): That said, I will not engage in Birtherism. Mr. Cruz is a natural-born American citizen. Place of birth is only relevant if the parents' citizenship is non-US

We know that, but we also know there have been the Birther Nuts who have been pretty loud for a long time and now we can shove a Canadian Passport in their face. I wonder if that passport is a long form or a short form.   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20): In this case, Mr. Cruz has been quite open and honest about having been born in Canada.

From the reports I've seen his Canadian citizenship eligibility is only based on his having been born in Canada. He never officialized that status by obtaining a Canadian passport or citizenship certificate.

Copy of his Alberta birth certificate in this item:
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/polit...m-if-ted-cruz-seeks-presidency.ece

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):

That looks sketchy to me. Looks like something a Nigerian prince would create. I prefer to see the original long form certificate.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22): He never officialized that status by obtaining a Canadian passport or citizenship certificate.

Doesn't matter--it is official. His birth certificate is all that is needed.

Anyhow, all this hullabaloo is absurd. I don't care what nationality he is, especially not when it is Canadian--a country with which we are close allies.

I have three citizenships--one American, the other two of allied nations. How does that diminish my ability (or anyones) to be a Senator?

He's not eligible to be President, anyway. One must be born in the United States, and however close Canada may be to the US, it isn't the US.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 24): He's not eligible to be President, anyway. One must be born in the United States, and however close Canada may be to the US, it isn't the US.

As I understand it, as a mere foreigner (unless I've forgotten that I'm also American), you don't need to be born in America. But you do need to have at least one parent to be an American citizen.

To put the fox amongst the hens, then, whether or not Obama was born in Hawaii is moot, since his mother was an American citizen.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 9): ...and the evidence of his birth within the states is pretty sketchy, too!

Yeah, sure.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 12): Sure, if by "sketchy" you mean "Completely and totally verified to everyone with an iota of critical thinking skills and common sense with more evidence than any other prior president has provided," then yes, absolutely.

        

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 24): One must be born in the United States

Technically, the first 7 presidents were NOT boen in the US, as the US did not exist at the times of their birth.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 25): As I understand it, as a mere foreigner (unless I've forgotten that I'm also American), you don't need to be born in America.

Being from the same country as you, as 'I' understand it, one must be a natural born US citizen to be US president. To wit....

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

This is actually pretty funny:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world..._giving_up_ability_to_run_for.html

Y'all did see the smiley, dintcha?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19): Because all we need are liberal birthers... let's hope they don't play this at all and take the high road

Especially considering that they didn't take the high road with Obama.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): Extremely. The things he says are things that no Harvard-educated lawyer could possibly actually believe. In fact, he's told a number of blatant lies. Why? Because he's smart enough to know that his followers will not fact check his claims, nor will they listen to any fact checkers. Fact checkers, in their mind, are just liberal shims. He's a cynic of the worst kind; not only does he think he's better than his electorate, but he's going to take advantage of them to win the election.

So....that makes him a Republican version of Obama then.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 26): Being from the same country as you, as 'I' understand it, one must be a natural born US citizen to be US president. To wit.... Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1 No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

If you're born abroad and your parent is a US citizen and they declare your birth with the Embassy as they did, then he is natural born. The issue will be whether he needs renounce the dual citizenship, but the constitution is silent on this.

[Edited 2013-08-21 21:11:40]

Birther nonsense has been a bipartisan thing among both parties fringe elements. When McCain was running against Obama he was attacked over his CZ birth. OMG! That's NOT a state!!! oh kn0wz!!! seemed to be the argument. Want to go back even further and Goldwater was attacked for his birth in the AZ territory. Romney, though born in MI, was under some scrutiny over whether his family illegally immigrated to the US from Mexico. His father was born in Mexico but ran for President as well since his parents were both American he was American at birth. Mexico didn't grant him birth right citizenship and he would have been stateless otherwise. George Romney never got the nomination so the issue was probably never seriously raised then.

The whole argument is foolish and George Washington wouldn't be eligible if you want to endlessly pursue that nonsense. Let alone any President born in OH since it may not have really been a state until 1953. An oversight then humorously and retroactively corrected. But guess what? Al Gore was not born in any state and he was our Vice President from '93-'01. Eligibility requirement for the office of VP is the same as for the President, except no term limit on VP. His DC birth seems to qualify Goldwater and McCain. Cruz is eligible to run like Romney's father and any dependent child born overseas. Btw I'm quite satisfied Obama was born in HI and the birth notice in the paper then would be pointless to fake.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 27): This is actually pretty funny:

Urgh. Says a lot about how insanely nationalistic his voting base is. My mind is drawn to those who didn't like Huntsman and Romney's ability to speak foreign languages fluently. Incredible that some people think that being a dual citizen would make a candidate less qualified for public office. For that reason, I hope the nickname 'Canadian Ted' sticks around.

If, like me, you are lucky enough to have dual citizenship then embrace it!

Whether or not he's eligible to run for president, let's get real here....Ted Cruz has 5-10% chance of getting GOP nomination, not to mention 0.001% chance of getting elected president....

Another slow news day......

[Edited 2013-08-22 05:27:26]

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 14): I'm actually embarassed that the Bieb is Canadian. He's a self-appointed mega knob.

Indeed. You go tell your fellow Canadians to quit producing such pratts and start producing new versions of Geddy Lee, Neil Pert and Alex Lifeson!

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33): Indeed. You go tell your fellow Canadians to quit producing such pratts and start producing new versions of Geddy Lee, Neil Pert and Alex Lifeson!

Although never a Rush fan, I will do that. I'd be happier to see a Shania Twain clone, though. And nothing more from the Screecher (a.k.a. Celine Dion).  

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 29): If you're born abroad and your parent is a US citizen and they declare your birth with the Embassy as they did, then he is natural born.

IIRC there's also some residency rules, when only one parent is a US citizen and the child is born abroad. Something about living x number of years in the US, including at least 5(?) after the age of 14.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 2): Hopefully the Democrats will stay far away and wait to see whether the birthers will be all over Cruz or choose to be exposed as the racists they claimed they never were...

They will bring it up, don't worry. There were a lot of people in Michigan (including Democrats) that weren't big on the idea of Jennifer Granholm (governor) being Canadian, but they couldn't do anything about it.

I recall some Democrats in the media getting worked up over McCain being born in the Panama Canal Zone.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 10): Quoting sccutler (Reply 9): Quoting seb146 (Reply 8): There is actual hard and fast evidence that Cruz was born in Canada and there is no evidence that Obama was born outside the United States. ...and the evidence of his birth within the states is pretty sketchy, too! Lemme guess..are you one of those "I only dislike him for his policies..." types as well?

I just don't like him because he is a liberal.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): Now, whether someone with a dual citizenship can become President is a question I can't answer. The Constitution is silent on such matters (I don't think it occurred to the Framers).

It is isn't silent on the subject at all. It states you must be a natural born citizen or a citizen by the date of the radification of the Constitution.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 30): The whole argument is foolish and George Washington wouldn't be eligible if you want to endlessly pursue that nonsense.

Yes he was, he was a citizen when the constitution was adopted, the constitution clearly states that.

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 32): Whether or not he's eligible to run for president, let's get real here....Ted Cruz has 5-10% chance of getting GOP nomination, not to mention 0.001% chance of getting elected president....

So in other words, about the same odds he had as becoming a US Senator when he dared to challenge the GOP apparatchik in Texas.

I'll take those odds.  

Quoting falstaff (Reply 36): They will bring it up, don't worry. There were a lot of people in Michigan (including Democrats) that weren't big on the idea of Jennifer Granholm (governor) being Canadian, but they couldn't do anything about it.

Actually, even if Ms Granholm was born in Vancouver, she had American parents. So wouldn't she be considered a 'natural-born American' ? Kind of hoped she could have run for President.

The partisanship is nauseating. And wtf is Ted Cruz anyway?

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 5): owing to their rather, erh, unique interpretation of US law.

If you knew what you were talking about and had a sense of history, theirs is not "unique".

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 25): you don't need to be born in America.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 29): If you're born abroad and your parent is a US citizen and they declare your birth with the Embassy as they did, then he is natural born.

As I recall from the McCain questions, the question is the definition of "natural born". I'm not going to research this again but iirc, there is a good wiki page on the subject. It is not black and white and ultimately comes down to Congress.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 30): Birther nonsense has been a bipartisan thing among both parties fringe elements.

All the partisans in this thread would do well to reread this entire post again. Very well said.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 31): Incredible that some people think that being a dual citizen would make a candidate less qualified for public office.

So you would have no problem with an American Governor-General? Maybe so since you accept rule by some pompous woman 6,000 miles away who has never done anything for you. We don't do that here.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 25): As I understand it, as a mere foreigner (unless I've forgotten that I'm also American), you don't need to be born in America.

Must be a native born citizen or have both parents be US Citizens. Cruz's father became a citizen in 2005, if that article is correct.

This:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 35): IIRC there's also some residency rules, when only one parent is a US citizen and the child is born abroad. Something about living x number of years in the US, including at least 5(?) after the age of 14.

seems to contradict this:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 40): Must be a native born citizen or have both parents be US Citizens. Cruz's father became a citizen in 2005, if that article is correct.

Which position is actually correct ?

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 34): Quoting Revelation (Reply 33): Indeed. You go tell your fellow Canadians to quit producing such pratts and start producing new versions of Geddy Lee, Neil Pert and Alex Lifeson! Although never a Rush fan, I will do that. I'd be happier to see a Shania Twain clone, though. And nothing more from the Screecher (a.k.a. Celine Dion).

Not a fan of Shania Twain at all. Celine Dion isn't that bad. She sings better in French.
We do have Gino Vannelli now since he's became a US Citizen. Not sure if he bothered to give up his Canadian citizenship or not.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39): The partisanship is nauseating. And wtf is Ted Cruz anyway?

A White Hispanic.   

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 32): .Ted Cruz has 5-10% chance of getting GOP nomination, not to mention 0.001% chance of getting elected president.

Really? What else is your crystal ball telling you?   

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 40): Must be a native born citizen or have both parents be US Citizens.

False. Only one parent needs to be a US citizen. I have personal experience dealing with this sort of thing.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 41): Which position is actually correct ?

From Article I of the US Constitution:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Natural born citizens are those who are eligible at birth for US citizenship; those born on American soil, and those with at least one citizen parent.

The fourteen years clause applies to everybody.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 24): He's not eligible to be President, anyway. One must be born in the United States, and however close Canada may be to the US, it isn't the US.

Incorrect.

Only one parent needs to be a US citizen, and the child is a natural born citizen. THe US constitiution says nothing about place of birth. The opposite of natural born would be naturalized, which he is not.

Just like McCain in the Canel Zone or the older Romney they are/were natural born citizens of the USA.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):

Humm. I read somewhere that it was both, but I guess not.

I stand corrected.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 36): It is isn't silent on the subject at all. It states you must be a natural born citizen or a citizen by the date of the radification of the Constitution.

Yes, but there is no mention of dual citizenship.

There are some interesting arguments. One could legally argue that the word "natural" in the Constitution means that babies born via C-section are ineligible. Read that in an article this morning. Ridiculous, yes, but then again courts have decided ridiculous things before. I doubt they'd come to this conclusion, however.

Others have argued that the only "natural-born" citizens are those who had no allegiances to any other countries at the time of birth, meaning that their parents both had to be citizens of the US (or at least not citizens of any other country) at the time of birth and some have argued that the birth must take place in the USA as well. And some have argued that only descendants of the original citizens of the US at the time of the Constitution's ratification are eligible.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 30): Birther nonsense has been a bipartisan thing among both parties fringe elements. When McCain was running against Obama he was attacked over his CZ birth.

I don't remember any such attacks. If they happened, they were very sparse. And there was a key difference: while some people might have claimed that Mr. McCain was not a "natural-born citizen," nobody was accusing him of producing a forged document, which is a much more serious allegation.

The Birther movement had as much as 30% of GOP voters at one point. And even after Mr. Obama had won the election, they still didn't stop. They kept demanding his COLB over and over and over until finally the state of Hawaii had to make an exception to their own policy and release it at Mr. Obama's request. Even GOP politicians were quoted as saying that they "weren't sure." Even Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, and Michele Bachmann all said things that were at least sympathetic to the Birthers.

And yet, even after Hawaii finally released the "full-form COLB" the Birthers STILL haven't stopped. They still have "questions" that are "unanswered." Which is a way of saying: "I don't care about facts and I won't listen to the answers."

Now, was birtherism bipartisan? Well, maybe a little. Some of the earliest Birthers were actually ardent Hillary supporters. But that's like arguing that a congressional vote was "bipartisan" because all Democrats and two Republicans voted "yes."

The claim that birtherism is bipartisan reeks of the same political malaise that is infecting the mainstream press. It's this need to find "balance" between a centrist party (the Democrats) and an increasingly extremist right-wing party (the GOP). It's like giving flat-earthers equal time to round-earthers just to "show both sides." It's disingenuous and frankly untrue. Birtherism is an almost exclusively GOP phenomenon with heavily racist and anti-Muslim overtones (the vast majority of birthers also think that Mr. Obama is a Muslim).

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 38): Actually, even if Ms Granholm was born in Vancouver, she had American parents. So wouldn't she be considered a 'natural-born American' ? Kind of hoped she could have run for President.

If I am not mistaken she herself said she couldn't run for President.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46): I don't remember any such attacks. If they happened, they were very sparse. And there was a key difference: while some people might have claimed that Mr. McCain was not a "natural-born citizen," nobody was accusing him of producing a forged document, which is a much more serious allegation.

McCain's father was a well known US admiral so the family history was already well known by a fair amount of people. John McCain also had been involved with politics for a long time and people on both sides knew him. Ten years ago most Democrats never heard of Obama.

Here is something from the Michigan Law Review about why McCain can't be President.

http://www.michiganlawreview.org/assets/fi/107/mccain.pdf


There was a resolution making John McCain's natural born status official, and it was sponsored by Democrats, including Obama.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-sr511/text

Quoting mham001 (Reply 39): So you would have no problem with an American Governor-General? Maybe so since you accept rule by some pompous woman 6,000 miles away who has never done anything for you

The nationality of the Governor-General is probably meaningless as their functions are largely honorary. However, in Australia our last Prime Minister was born in the UK, and the last Premier of New South Wales was an American (with an American accent). I don't think people care, after all we are a nation of immigrants.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 48): The nationality of the Governor-General is probably meaningless as their functions are largely honorary. However, in Australia our last Prime Minister was born in the UK, and the last Premier of New South Wales was an American (with an American accent). I don't think people care, after all we are a nation of immigrants.

Probably not addressed in the Constitution, but since the G-G is nominated by the Crown, you can bet at least a citizen of a Commonwealth nation.