Kiwirob wrote:WarRI1 wrote:Middle aged guy in board shorts:
Middle aged guy in Speedo should be kicked in the ass and thrown off the beach for indecent exposure along with his gold and tats. I find that ridiculous. Maybe the speedo makes him swim faster?
Rod Stewart has always had poor fashion sense.
Aither wrote:It's not only a french problem : for the first time I saw burkinis in South of Thailand where a majority of muslims live. It's more political than religious according to some local newspapers. Locals say it's a way to differentiate bad muslims (moderate ones) and good ones (radicals who want to force the law of Charia). It was actually muslims asking for the governement to not allow burkinis as they see other people trying to force them to accept the principles of Charia over the civil's laws. Radical muslims are using democratic/human rights law for their own objectives and if a country like France is resisting they will make it look bad.
So the big question could be : if in 1936 a country had the opportunity to stop the rise of fascism but could not because of its own democratic laws should this country have ignored its own laws to save millions of peoples?
TheFlyingDisk wrote:And so the ban is found to have "seriously and clearly illegally breached fundamental freedoms to come and go, freedom of beliefs and individual freedom"
Liberté still means something to some French citizens.
Aesma wrote:What happened in Sisco had nothing to do with the burkini (according to the prosecutor) so this is beyond stupid, the only reason it hasn't been struck down is that doing this could cause racist riots. And the fact that it's Corsica, not really a civilized place to begin with.
Pihero wrote:You think you're defending womens' rights to dress the way they want while in fact you are solidly supporting womens'subservience to male domination... which brings me to the following point .
Pihero wrote:1/- Show me where in their holy book she is told to wear that sort of clothes.
Pihero wrote:Of course you have every right to your own interpretation... and I undersatnd why you will always defend that society ( remember our brushes about life in the Gulf ? ).
Pihero wrote:There is also a final thought on the subject : Don't you think ... think for a second ... that wearing a religious / social /communautarian dress of this kind a month after the maiming and killing of dozens of people in Nice is not the most insulting provocation by the extremist Islam in this country ?
mariner wrote:I'm happy to live in a country where is there an extraordinarily harmonious relationship with the Muslim community.
Kiwirob wrote:That's now.
Kiwirob wrote:As far as I know the Muslim Community in NZ is very moderate, we don't have hate preachers operating in NZ. Muslim women in NZ also live without head covering, but I would imagine if radicals arrived and Islamic dress became the norm, relations would change.
Kiwirob wrote:A similar example is one of my friends, he's Chinese kiwi, his family arrived in NZ back in the 1850's, he's as kiwi as I am, but his life changed in the 90's when mass Chinese immigration started, he was no longer seen as a kiwi but as Chinese, life became much harder.
Kiwirob wrote:mariner wrote:I'm happy to live in a country where is there an extraordinarily harmonious relationship with the Muslim community.
That's now. As far as I know the Muslim
Community in NZ is very moderate, we don't have hate preachers operating in NZ. Muslim women in NZ also live without head covering, but I would imagine if radicals arrived and Islamic dress became the norm, relations would change.
A similar example is one of my friends, he's Chinese kiwi, his family arrived in NZ back in the 1850's, he's as kiwi as I am, but his life changed in the 90's when mass Chinese immigration started, he was no longer seen as a kiwi but as Chinese, life became much harder.
And life has changed for Muslims and those of Middle Eastern and Middle Asian descent living in the United States and Europe since Sept 11. Where, before, they were seen as Muslim or Persian or Saudi, they are now seen as a terror threat. Just because of the actions of a few.
pvjin wrote:And life has changed for Muslims and those of Middle Eastern and Middle Asian descent living in the United States and Europe since Sept 11. Where, before, they were seen as Muslim or Persian or Saudi, they are now seen as a terror threat. Just because of the actions of a few.
Yes, but perhaps instead of blaming people for Islamophobia it would be wiser to do something to stop the terrorism? Preventing Wahhabi scum from entering Europe & The US, deporting / jailing existing hate preachers and adopting better integration policies would be a good start.
Western world has no problem with Islamophobia or racism, it however has serious issues with integrating Muslim migrants and preventing radicalization. Radicalization, crime and terrorism come first and any Islamophobia is ultimately just a natural reaction to those phenomenons.
If the problem with terrorism and radicalization was eliminated and most Muslims would find their place in our societies I would have nothing against Islamic migration to Europe. Moderate Muslims have many good values compared to secularized westerners, such as respecting traditional family values that are becoming increasingly rare among mainstream western population, which is precisely the reason why Muslim population grows much faster than the native one.
mariner wrote:... you have completely avoided my point, which is that a devout woman, and not just in Islam, may chose to dress modestly - and that, I believe, is her right.
...If people can't differentiate between a woman having a swim and a killer on a rampage, I can only shrug. I agree with the Conseil d'Etat.
Pihero wrote:What you refuse to understand is that, contrarily to the original costumes and dresses the muslim community has been wearing for more than sixty years in France, this new *fashion* of hijjab / veil ... has a mainly religious, i.e proselytist, meaning.
Pihero wrote:As for each woman's right to dress the way she feels, I'm a bit surprised nobody defends them when they live in SA, Iran, Kuwait, Yemen.....( fracking long list...)
Pihero wrote:As for your happiness at the harmonious relations between muslims and the rest of the population in New Zealand, I find it quite ridiculously disingenious : with less than 0.8% of the population, they are just about invisible...
Pihero wrote:France does not have an exact figure for their numbers as it is unlawful to enquire / poll / ask about personal beliefs ( would you believe it is about personal freedom ? ), so one could only derive an estimation based on the origins of the population : with the four generations of North Africans and the people from west Africa, plus about 150 000 converts ( btw, that figure represents four times the total number of muslims living in NZ, which puts your allegation into perspective), the total is about 7 million, roughly 11% of France's to-day's demography.
Not exactly the same situation as in kiwiland, I guess.
Pihero wrote:Expect soon the dress laws to be a lot more harshly applied : four women - who had the right to wear islamic dresses - have just been arrested for preparing a terrorist attack. Only their amateurism and silliness - the poor things had not really studied the physics of fire - prevented a multiple gas bottle explosion near Notre Dame.
Pihero wrote:Contrarily to what you think, the problem of islamic integration in France is in fact made a lot more difficult by the rise of provocations from the more militant groups ( those you call *devout*, they come from now rather well known communities ).
Pihero wrote:Last thought : it looks reading the posts on this thread that this is a country-wide situation : Not so . Have you ever heard of problems in the bay of Biscay, Brittany or Normandy ?
As a matter of fact out of the 4170 km of coast line, only a very few, well identified areas were concerned, and these areas are not the places were we have the densest muslim population... just the Côte d'Azur where dozens of people were killed / maimed and where, in fact, after the attack there was a very moving sense of sticking together, both muslims and others...
That couldn't have pleased the extremists, could it ?
Pihero wrote:Talk about total denial...
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