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climbing230
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Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:53 pm

Hello everyone. :)
Question : When an aircraft/jet backtracks on the runway it makes a 180 degree turn to line up on the center line , so my question is in order to make this turn the aircraft steers (nose wheel )either to the "left" or the 'right' side before entering into the turn sequence.What factors determine this turn either from the RIGHT HAND SIDE or the LEFT HAND SIDE? (is it the winds?)

[Hope i was able to convey my query properly in terms of the technicality]

- Thanking You
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StereoTechque
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:39 pm

The aircraft just follows the Centre line and the turn inside the Runway dumbell which is also marked by yellow Centre line. So there is no choice but only a single line to follow. Hope it clears your doubt..
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FlyHossD
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:13 pm

StereoTechque wrote:
The aircraft just follows the Centre line and the turn inside the Runway dumbell which is also marked by yellow Centre line. So there is no choice but only a single line to follow. Hope it clears your doubt..


Some of the decision and technique is left to whoever is taxiing the airplane (generally, the captain). As a captain, I generally preferred to stay on the outside of the turn, so that I could better judge how close to the edge we were; others prefer to be inside the turn. The size and location of the dumbbell (which side the turn-around pavement is on) must be considered, too.

Further, some airports have restrictions - or at least recommendations - about how turns are to be made; this might include a prohibition against locked wheel turns, for example.
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scbriml
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:36 pm

Here's the threshold for runway 28 at everyone's favourite airport, SXM. As you can see, the yellow line has arrows to clearly indicate that the plane should move to the right, then turn left back onto the runway. Interestingly, you can see the old turning area before the runway was lengthened.
Image
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climbing230
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:35 pm

scbriml wrote:
Here's the threshold for runway 28 at everyone's favourite airport, SXM. As you can see, the yellow line has arrows to clearly indicate that the plane should move to the right, then turn left back onto the runway. Interestingly, you can see the old turning area before the runway was lengthened.
Image


Sir that was a nice picture of SXM runway., my doubdt is clear now.I did not know about the "Dumbell" marking.Now i know.

-Thanking You
Pramod
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climbing230
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:38 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
StereoTechque wrote:
The aircraft just follows the Centre line and the turn inside the Runway dumbell which is also marked by yellow Centre line. So there is no choice but only a single line to follow. Hope it clears your doubt..


Some of the decision and technique is left to whoever is taxiing the airplane (generally, the captain). As a captain, I generally preferred to stay on the outside of the turn, so that I could better judge how close to the edge we were; others prefer to be inside the turn. The size and location of the dumbbell (which side the turn-around pavement is on) must be considered, too.

Further, some airports have restrictions - or at least recommendations - about how turns are to be made; this might include a prohibition against locked wheel turns, for example.


Great.More over i just saw a video and i am a bit astonished to see the B-777 making that turn along the dumbell with the nose gear slowly steering.Sheer power.

-Thanking You :)
Pramod.
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richcam427
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:41 pm

Some smaller airports that serve only bushplanes don't have turning dumbbels, so the direction is up to the captain. Of course, you're got going to see a 747 try and make a sharp turn without one, but a Twin Otter can do it just fine.
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:23 pm

richcam427 wrote:
Some smaller airports that serve only bushplanes don't have turning dumbbels, so the direction is up to the captain. Of course, you're got going to see a 747 try and make a sharp turn without one, but a Twin Otter can do it just fine.


Actually most airports don't have turning dumbbels. If something is blocking the normal runway access taxiway at the beginning of the RW, and the aircraft has to backtaxi because it needs the entire length for takeoff, then it's up the CPT's desecration on how he makes a U-turn.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:29 am

In our FCOM it says if the Captain is taxiing, you should taxi on the right side of the runway, turn 20 degrees towards the left edge and then turn sharp right for the reversal. Vice-versa for FO. This assumes no dumbbell.

Say you have a dumbbell, though, and it is on the left side as you approach, meaning you'll have to enter the dumbbell and turn right for the reversal. However the FO is PF, putting him on the "wrong" side of the aircraft for this turn. the practical thing to do is turn over control to the Captain for the turn.
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Florianopolis
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:43 am

How often do FOs taxi in a typical airline operation? Many airliners don't even have tillers for the right seat...
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:32 am

Florianopolis wrote:
How often do FOs taxi in a typical airline operation? Many airliners don't even have tillers for the right seat...


On the 747s, even with no tiller on the FO's side, a captain occasionally would ask you to taxi it while he fiddled with something...but only when going straight. Rudder pedals provided around 7 degrees of nosewheel deflection. On the DC-10 which did have a tiller on the right, I don't recall ever taxiing it very much, if at all, during my 2 year stint as an FO on the aircraft. This was all red-tails before the merger. I don't know what if any policy they have now.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:50 am

Florianopolis wrote:
How often do FOs taxi in a typical airline operation? Many airliners don't even have tillers for the right seat...


At my airline all the planes have tillers on the right and the PF taxis whether it is the Captain or FO.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Making a 180 degree turn to lineup on the runway

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:14 pm

scbriml wrote:
Here's the threshold for runway 28 at everyone's favourite airport, SXM. As you can see, the yellow line has arrows to clearly indicate that the plane should move to the right, then turn left back onto the runway. Interestingly, you can see the old turning area before the runway was lengthened.
Image


A couple of years ago a KLM 747 went the wrong way around the dumbbell at SXM and the exhaust from the engines caused damage to buildings next to the runway.

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