Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
MatthKarl wrote:Are these fuel burn values an average of a trip (if yes, what is the trip length) or the burn at cruise level?
And some indication of the weight of the aircraft would also help to better understand the values. But definitely an interesting post
GriN wrote:De Havilland Comet 1 — 6000 kg/h
timz wrote:GriN wrote:De Havilland Comet 1 — 6000 kg/h
That one must be a typo.
Starlionblue wrote:timz wrote:GriN wrote:De Havilland Comet 1 — 6000 kg/h
That one must be a typo.
It does sound quite low. But it had a MTOW of only 50 tons.
LH707330 wrote:I don't think I buy that a DC-8-63 burns less than a 707-320B. It's bigger, heavier, and has the same engines.
GriN wrote:LH707330 wrote:I don't think I buy that a DC-8-63 burns less than a 707-320B. It's bigger, heavier, and has the same engines.
According to Flight 1972
707-320B - 885 km/h - 5375 kg/h
DC-6-83 - 875 km/h - 5400 kg/h
at the maximum take-off weight and max range average fuel burn is
707-320B - 5050 kg/h - 5.94 kg/km
DC-6-83 - 5470 kg/h - 6.63 kg/km
The difference in the payload is 4720 kg
GriN wrote:LH707330 wrote:I don't think I buy that a DC-8-63 burns less than a 707-320B. It's bigger, heavier, and has the same engines.
According to Flight 1972
707-320B - 885 km/h - 5375 kg/h
DC-6-83 - 875 km/h - 5400 kg/h
at the maximum take-off weight and max range average fuel burn is
707-320B - 5050 kg/h - 5.94 kg/km
DC-6-83 - 5470 kg/h - 6.63 kg/km
The difference in the payload is 4720 kg
LH707330 wrote:GriN wrote:LH707330 wrote:I don't think I buy that a DC-8-63 burns less than a 707-320B. It's bigger, heavier, and has the same engines.
According to Flight 1972
707-320B - 885 km/h - 5375 kg/h
DC-6-83 - 875 km/h - 5400 kg/h
at the maximum take-off weight and max range average fuel burn is
707-320B - 5050 kg/h - 5.94 kg/km
DC-6-83 - 5470 kg/h - 6.63 kg/km
The difference in the payload is 4720 kg
That second set makes a bit more sense, thanks for sharing.
c933103 wrote:btw, can op provide some of the major resources being used to generate thee op's table? Would like to know the condition being made when yielding such table
GriN wrote:c933103 wrote:btw, can op provide some of the major resources being used to generate thee op's table? Would like to know the condition being made when yielding such table
Here you can find the latest version with some fixes
https://www.fs.fed.us/fire/contracting/ ... rs_cwn.htm
GriN wrote:Just found a operations manual for Tu-144C. Interesting enough was the page with an example of flight planning. This 3,300 km route coincides with the real commercial route Tu-144C Moscow-Almaty, the flight time was 2 hours, trip fuel 76.5 tons, headwind 80 km / hour. The Tu-144C was definitely the most uneconomical passenger aircraft ever. The cruising fuel consumption was 36 200 kg / h and the average minimum was 38 000 kg / h. This corresponds to 29 liters / 100 km per passenger!
kurtverbose wrote:In terms of fuel burn per mile, with the A330 as a baseline and assuming the TU144 flies at the same speed as Concorde: -
Concorde + 41%
TU144 + 150%
However, mitigating factors - TU144 was slightly larger than Concorde, and I think flew a bit faster.
I think the primary reason was the TU144 needed to run it's afterburners in the cruise.
With respect to passenger numbers - I think you'd have to compare an all business or first class A330 with the Concorde, but then you'd get into discussions about size of seats etc.
georgiaame wrote:As a non aeronautical person, who is mildly OCD and loves reading lists (and phone books), I found it very interesting that an A350 burns through 5800kg/hr, and a B748 9800kg/hr, for a pretty equivalent passenger load. Obviously there are many other factors involved, but it's pretty clear why 350s sell like hotcakes (just how do hotcakes sell?), and why my beloved 747 is clearly on the way out the door. Well, I buy my cars based on gas mileage, not their looks.
c933103 wrote:The Appendix C of this ICAO document have some fuel consumption data for different aircraft at different sector length.... https://www.icao.int/environmental-prot ... 9_2016.pdf
Some deviation from data posted by OP include for example the Lockheed Electra is shown in the table to consume 15644kg fuel for a 2000nm flight, which if assume 652km/h cruising speed then it should be consuming 2750kg/h, compare to the 2000kg/h given by op.
jman wrote:Is there somewhere where you can find out the fuel burn for take off?
Afstand wrote:IMHO, fuel flow is relatively easy to estimate as a function of aircraft type and weight. As far as I know, in ISA conditions in long range cruise classics B733-5 would burn 1/23 of its weight per hour, while NG would burn 1/27 – 1/28 of its weight in hourly fuel flow.
B744 1/30
A330 1/33 – 1/35
77E 1/34
A380, 77W 1/36
B787 1/37-1/39
Depending on ZFW and mission time, it is relatively easy to compute mission fuel in Excel. Fuel burn will indeed depend on mission length (time) and other, specific things like required reserves.
jman wrote:How do i do it in excel? What do i need to write? I think i know how to work out how much fuel is used for an overall distance, but not sure how i would work out how much fuel is used during a cruising hour?
GriN wrote:Has made some amendments to the fuel burn list. Also added several planes.
Bombardier Dash 8-Q300 — 700 kg/h
Bombardier Dash 8-Q400NextGen — 860 kg/h
:
:
ATR 42-320 — 510 kg/h
ATR 42-500 — 620 kg/h
ATR 72-500 — 660 kg/h
BawliBooch wrote:GriN wrote:Has made some amendments to the fuel burn list. Also added several planes.
Bombardier Dash 8-Q300 — 700 kg/h
Bombardier Dash 8-Q400NextGen — 860 kg/h
:
:
ATR 42-320 — 510 kg/h
ATR 42-500 — 620 kg/h
ATR 72-500 — 660 kg/h
Fuel burn for the ATR42-320 at 510 kg/h is LESS than the newer ATR 42-500? How much has the takeoff performance/Payload improved to justify this increase in fuel consumption?
Aircraft - MTOW - Runway (MSL)
ATR 42-320 - 16800kg - 3900ft
ATR 42-500 - 18800kg - 3800ft
Doesn't make sense!
There is a market for a more efficient 30-50 seat aircraft capable of handling routes upto 700nm from runways <4500 ft. Sadly the Q200 is no longer in production!