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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:42 pm

If anyone is going through the civic plaza sometime today or tomorrow let us know if you see them putting a podium up. Also, if there are any balloons tell us the colors and if you see anything else interesting that may hint on what the announcement could be that would he helpful as well.
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:13 pm

3x BOS, all E190?
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:16 am

The announcement will be at 10:00am tomorrow per my source in the local media.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:19 am

Weird that an announcement is on a Monday

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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:25 am

Could this announcement be about something other than airlines?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ibthebigd
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:10 am

https://www.wthr.com/article/officials- ... ew-airline

Media starting to pick up on an announcement

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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:18 pm

There is a correction to the schedule. The announcement will be made tomorrow according to WTHR.
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:21 pm

You know who typically announces routes kn a Tuesday at 10am right?
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:42 pm

flymco753 wrote:
You know who typically announces routes kn a Tuesday at 10am right?


Who?
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tphuang
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:43 pm

JetBlue typically makes announcement on Tuesday mornings. Which is why I was a little surprised this was coming today.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:46 pm

Indy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
You know who typically announces routes kn a Tuesday at 10am right?


Who?
It's probably B6, but NK also makes announcements between 10-11am on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. NK is due up to announce new spring routes in the next few weeks.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:23 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Indy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
You know who typically announces routes kn a Tuesday at 10am right?


Who?
It's probably B6, but NK also makes announcements between 10-11am on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. NK is due up to announce new spring routes in the next few weeks.


As do a number of airlines though, Tuesday is also the day for F9, G4, and maybe even SY
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beerbus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:39 am

My hunch is Spirt.

NK CEO Bob Fornaro was NW VP of Market Planning in the early 90's. I used to be on marketing conference calls with him during that period when I represented the Market from a regional/field level for NW. He and his staff liked the IND catchment, and were supportive of efforts to grow the market during that period. IMHO he still sees the value of the market and a growth opportunity for NK.

I believe he has gone on record stating NK will grow up to 15% next year. That is a LOT of new ASM's to be sold- so I think IND is a likely market for some of that growth in 2019.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:53 am

Don't forget Fornaro's involvement at AirTran and how IND became an important spoke in their network. Fornaro's work at Northwest helped build it up into one of the largest concentrations of members of its frequent flyer programs outside the hubs - eventually becoming a catalyst for the focus city operations.

As you said, Fornaro knows the IND market.

It would be natural, upon his exit strategy, to set Christie up for success with coming into some of the markets Fornaro has researched, studied and serviced during his years.

In the past year - Spirit's expansion into Columbus, Greensboro, Richmond....the push to build Orlando...sound familiar?
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:46 pm

IND's got Spirit, yes you do!
IND's got Spirit, 3 cities to! ;)
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:34 pm

There are still some former FL destinations not currently served by NK that NK could enter such as ABE, DAY, DSM, GRR, MDT, TYS, LEX, MEM, MKE, PHF, PNS, ROC, STL, SAT, SRQ, and ICT.
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:44 pm

NK really didn't want to step on anyones toes with this announcement, this may wake G4 up a little bit which is a good thing, as this doesn't hurt them too much.

However the IND-MCO market is becoming an absolute bloodbath.
March 23rd has 2,000 seats each way....

There is still room for them to add FLL, plus even TPA and RSW, the LAS and MCO services will do very well so I expect them to add to service within a not too long window.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:51 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
There is still room for them to add FLL, plus even TPA and RSW, the LAS and MCO services will do very well so I expect them to add to service within a not too long window.


In addition to Florida and Vegas, NK could also add nonstop service to BWI and DFW out of IND at some point.
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:41 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
NK really didn't want to step on anyones toes with this announcement, this may wake G4 up a little bit which is a good thing, as this doesn't hurt them too much.

However the IND-MCO market is becoming an absolute bloodbath.
March 23rd has 2,000 seats each way....

There is still room for them to add FLL, plus even TPA and RSW, the LAS and MCO services will do very well so I expect them to add to service within a not too long window.


Idk. I am waiting for Frontier to pull a Pittsburgh on us. If Frontier decides to go DEN only from here I will not be surprised but I am ok with that as Spirit won't pull all this add, drop, add, drop crap.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:03 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
NK really didn't want to step on anyones toes with this announcement, this may wake G4 up a little bit which is a good thing, as this doesn't hurt them too much.

However the IND-MCO market is becoming an absolute bloodbath.
March 23rd has 2,000 seats each way....

There is still room for them to add FLL, plus even TPA and RSW, the LAS and MCO services will do very well so I expect them to add to service within a not too long window.


Idk. I am waiting for Frontier to pull a Pittsburgh on us. If Frontier decides to go DEN only from here I will not be surprised but I am ok with that as Spirit won't pull all this add, drop, add, drop crap.


F9 will keep MCO though, there is a ton demand on that route, probably even LAS will stay. Anything else is never guaranteed with them, I'm not even really sure which routes routes are seasonal or dropped for them.

NK coming is good for IND-LAS though, G4 and F9 provide token 2-3x weekly service which doesn't impact WN's fares, with NK coming in daily there will likely be an increase in demand on that route due to lower fares.

G4 on IND-MYR may be on its last legs though, as that route was already struggling and NK is matching the same days G4 is flying it...
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:12 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
NK really didn't want to step on anyones toes with this announcement, this may wake G4 up a little bit which is a good thing, as this doesn't hurt them too much.

However the IND-MCO market is becoming an absolute bloodbath.
March 23rd has 2,000 seats each way....

There is still room for them to add FLL, plus even TPA and RSW, the LAS and MCO services will do very well so I expect them to add to service within a not too long window.


Idk. I am waiting for Frontier to pull a Pittsburgh on us. If Frontier decides to go DEN only from here I will not be surprised but I am ok with that as Spirit won't pull all this add, drop, add, drop crap.


F9 will keep MCO though, there is a ton demand on that route, probably even LAS will stay. Anything else is never guaranteed with them, I'm not even really sure which routes routes are seasonal or dropped for them.

NK coming is good for IND-LAS though, G4 and F9 provide token 2-3x weekly service which doesn't impact WN's fares, with NK coming in daily there will likely be an increase in demand on that route due to lower fares.

G4 on IND-MYR may be on its last legs though, as that route was already struggling and NK is matching the same days G4 is flying it...


Could you post the PDEW for IND/PIT-LAS,MCO? I am very curious.

As far as IND-MYR G4 did well on that route during the summer, the spring is a different story. If you look at G4s schedule they are starting MYR much later in the year in 2019. I am not sure if MYR can handle two airlines during the summer but we'll see. I do see G4 attempting to fight them off as they don't cave like F9 does.

Oh and before anyone gets any ideas. F9 and G4 is not going to leave the Indy market completely. Some people on these forums love to pull the trigger to much. G4 will probably grow from this (and maybe cut MYR depending who blinks first).
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:51 pm

zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

Idk. I am waiting for Frontier to pull a Pittsburgh on us. If Frontier decides to go DEN only from here I will not be surprised but I am ok with that as Spirit won't pull all this add, drop, add, drop crap.


F9 will keep MCO though, there is a ton demand on that route, probably even LAS will stay. Anything else is never guaranteed with them, I'm not even really sure which routes routes are seasonal or dropped for them.

NK coming is good for IND-LAS though, G4 and F9 provide token 2-3x weekly service which doesn't impact WN's fares, with NK coming in daily there will likely be an increase in demand on that route due to lower fares.

G4 on IND-MYR may be on its last legs though, as that route was already struggling and NK is matching the same days G4 is flying it...


Could you post the PDEW for IND/PIT-LAS,MCO? I am very curious.

As far as IND-MYR G4 did well on that route during the summer, the spring is a different story. If you look at G4s schedule they are starting MYR much later in the year in 2019. I am not sure if MYR can handle two airlines during the summer but we'll see. I do see G4 attempting to fight them off as they don't cave like F9 does.


Both ways combined
IND-MCO
Q1-1355 (678 PDEW)
Q2-1289 (645 PDEW)

PIT-MCO
Q1-1290 (645 PDEW)
Q2-1264 (632 PDEW)

IND-LAS
Q1-728 (364 PDEW)
Q2-903 (452 PDEW)

PIT-LAS
Q1-602 (301 PDEW)
Q2-711 (356 PDEW)

I believe IND will have significantly more seats next year on IND-Orlando/Las Vegas, so the gap should widen

I do think G4 might have to step up a little bit though, with the investment they have in IND they can't really curl up into a ball like F9 can.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:03 pm

Is MCO including Sanford?

I remember the Orlando numbers historically sitting at the 1200-1300 per day mark 15-20 years ago. At that time I remember 2-3 nonstops per day on ATA, another 1 or 2 on Southwest, if not more, and another 2-3 on Northwest in the hub. Back in the mid to late 1990s you had USAir, Delta, Southwest and ATA on the route. Does MCO (individually) set the record for having the most number of carriers on a route of IND? Anyone know?

I also remember Vegas being 1,000 or more per day, so it has dropped a bit. I notice the drops seem to be in alignment with Vegas getting "rid of the old" and building the new, significantly increasing price points for people to go for a night. Back then you could snag a reasonably price or sometimes dirt cheap price, stay at the Riviera, Westward Ho, Stardust, Sahara and what have you for $50 a night or less on a weekend and make it through the weekend for less than $20 on food or what have you for the day. It's still possible to do that here and there in a few places but not on the scale of 2000-2007.
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DeltaRules
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
NK really didn't want to step on anyones toes with this announcement, this may wake G4 up a little bit which is a good thing, as this doesn't hurt them too much.

However the IND-MCO market is becoming an absolute bloodbath.
March 23rd has 2,000 seats each way....

There is still room for them to add FLL, plus even TPA and RSW, the LAS and MCO services will do very well so I expect them to add to service within a not too long window.


Idk. I am waiting for Frontier to pull a Pittsburgh on us. If Frontier decides to go DEN only from here I will not be surprised but I am ok with that as Spirit won't pull all this add, drop, add, drop crap.


F9 will keep MCO though, there is a ton demand on that route, probably even LAS will stay. Anything else is never guaranteed with them, I'm not even really sure which routes routes are seasonal or dropped for them.

NK coming is good for IND-LAS though, G4 and F9 provide token 2-3x weekly service which doesn't impact WN's fares, with NK coming in daily there will likely be an increase in demand on that route due to lower fares.

G4 on IND-MYR may be on its last legs though, as that route was already struggling and NK is matching the same days G4 is flying it...


If you want a geographical comparison:
-F9 dropped CMH-LAS I think even before NK started. G4 hasn't started LCK-LAS.
-Saturdays were also an MCO/SFB bloodbath from CMH/LCK last year. I think there were 11 nonstops between G4, DL, WN, NK, and F9 last March.
-G4 and NK seemed to coexist on Columbus-MYR, though I'm not sure if they flew the same days as appears to be happening with IND.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:22 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
zackary747 wrote:

Idk. I am waiting for Frontier to pull a Pittsburgh on us. If Frontier decides to go DEN only from here I will not be surprised but I am ok with that as Spirit won't pull all this add, drop, add, drop crap.


F9 will keep MCO though, there is a ton demand on that route, probably even LAS will stay. Anything else is never guaranteed with them, I'm not even really sure which routes routes are seasonal or dropped for them.

NK coming is good for IND-LAS though, G4 and F9 provide token 2-3x weekly service which doesn't impact WN's fares, with NK coming in daily there will likely be an increase in demand on that route due to lower fares.

G4 on IND-MYR may be on its last legs though, as that route was already struggling and NK is matching the same days G4 is flying it...


If you want a geographical comparison:
-F9 dropped CMH-LAS I think even before NK started. G4 hasn't started LCK-LAS.
-Saturdays were also an MCO/SFB bloodbath from CMH/LCK last year. I think there were 11 nonstops between G4, DL, WN, NK, and F9 last March.
-G4 and NK seemed to coexist on Columbus-MYR, though I'm not sure if they flew the same days as appears to be happening with IND.


Just noticed PIT-MYR has two carriers (G4 and NK). How's that holding up? PIT has a G4 base as well.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:27 pm

stlgph wrote:
Is MCO including Sanford?


Good point about SFB, I forgot they split the PDEW numbers for SFB and MCO
IND-SFB
Q1-81 PDEW
Q2-77 PDEW

PIT-SFB
Q1-42 PDEW
Q2-39 PDEW

stlgph wrote:
I remember the Orlando numbers historically sitting at the 1200-1300 per day mark 15-20 years ago. At that time I remember 2-3 nonstops per day on ATA, another 1 or 2 on Southwest, if not more, and another 2-3 on Northwest in the hub. Back in the mid to late 1990s you had USAir, Delta, Southwest and ATA on the route. Does this set the record for having the most number of carriers on a route of IND? Anyone know?


So dating back to 1996, IND-MCO had its 3rd largest Q1 ever in 2018 (16 PDEW smaller than largest in 2005). However, average fares on the route are $50+ higher now, so the passenger numbers the city pair is getting currently is much more impressive.

At peak it looks like 13 flights, so probably more flights/carriers now than then

stlgph wrote:
I also remember Vegas being 1,000 or more per day, so it has dropped a bit. I notice the drops seem to be in alignment with Vegas getting "rid of the old" and building the new, significantly increasing price points for people to go for a night. Back then you could snag a reasonably price or sometimes dirt cheap price, stay at the Riviera, Westward Ho, Stardust, Sahara and what have you for $50 a night or less on a weekend and make it through the weekend for less than $20 on food or what have you for the day. It's still possible to do that here and there in a few places but not on the scale of 2000-2007.


I would also attribute this to a large increase in average fares
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:38 pm

zackary747 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

F9 will keep MCO though, there is a ton demand on that route, probably even LAS will stay. Anything else is never guaranteed with them, I'm not even really sure which routes routes are seasonal or dropped for them.

NK coming is good for IND-LAS though, G4 and F9 provide token 2-3x weekly service which doesn't impact WN's fares, with NK coming in daily there will likely be an increase in demand on that route due to lower fares.

G4 on IND-MYR may be on its last legs though, as that route was already struggling and NK is matching the same days G4 is flying it...


If you want a geographical comparison:
-F9 dropped CMH-LAS I think even before NK started. G4 hasn't started LCK-LAS.
-Saturdays were also an MCO/SFB bloodbath from CMH/LCK last year. I think there were 11 nonstops between G4, DL, WN, NK, and F9 last March.
-G4 and NK seemed to coexist on Columbus-MYR, though I'm not sure if they flew the same days as appears to be happening with IND.


Just noticed PIT-MYR has two carriers (G4 and NK). How's that holding up? PIT has a G4 base as well.


Jan-Aug LF
NK MYR-PIT-84.2%
NK PIT-MYR-84.4%
G4 MYR-PIT-73.6%
G4 PIT-MYR-78.1%

Yikes
NK CMH-MYR-65.7%
G4 LCK-MYR-69.3%
NK MYR-CMH-68.3%
G4 MYR-LCK 66.9%
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Is MCO including Sanford?


Good point about SFB, I forgot they split the PDEW numbers for SFB and MCO
IND-SFB
Q1-81 PDEW
Q2-77 PDEW

PIT-SFB
Q1-42 PDEW
Q2-39 PDEW

stlgph wrote:
I remember the Orlando numbers historically sitting at the 1200-1300 per day mark 15-20 years ago. At that time I remember 2-3 nonstops per day on ATA, another 1 or 2 on Southwest, if not more, and another 2-3 on Northwest in the hub. Back in the mid to late 1990s you had USAir, Delta, Southwest and ATA on the route. Does this set the record for having the most number of carriers on a route of IND? Anyone know?


So dating back to 1996, IND-MCO had its 3rd largest Q1 ever in 2018 (16 PDEW smaller than largest in 2005). However, average fares on the route are $50+ higher now, so the passenger numbers the city pair is getting currently is much more impressive.

At peak it looks like 13 flights, so probably more flights/carriers now than then

stlgph wrote:
I also remember Vegas being 1,000 or more per day, so it has dropped a bit. I notice the drops seem to be in alignment with Vegas getting "rid of the old" and building the new, significantly increasing price points for people to go for a night. Back then you could snag a reasonably price or sometimes dirt cheap price, stay at the Riviera, Westward Ho, Stardust, Sahara and what have you for $50 a night or less on a weekend and make it through the weekend for less than $20 on food or what have you for the day. It's still possible to do that here and there in a few places but not on the scale of 2000-2007.


I would also attribute this to a large increase in average fares



Yes, fares have definitely gone up to Vegas. Even on the "package" deals.
In 2002-2006 or so my friends and I would frequently (6-7 times per year) fly out to Vegas for the weekend, we'd get roundtrip airfare, transfer from airport to hotel, 2 nights hotel room and they'd often toss in a voucher for a free lunch and some free drinks (although if you sat at a slot machine you got a free drink anyway) - and you could do it routinely for $160-$200 on Southwest Vacations and stay at the Westward Ho, Riviera or Stardust.

As these properties went away, the replacement hotels became Bally's, Caesar's, etc. and the price went routinely $250 to $300 for 2 nights about the 2006-2008 time frame. When we (friends) looked at doing a similar nostalgia trip in say 2011/2012 time frame, it was roughly $450-$500.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:25 pm

Which concourse do you all think NK will use at IND?
 
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:41 pm

If I had to place money, I'd put it on Gate B16.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:10 pm

Jake1993P wrote:
Which concourse do you all think NK will use at IND?


I'll go with either B15, B16, A20, or A22, DL uses everything from A5-A16, and UA/AC uses A17-25. Not sure about A20 and A22, but DL often uses A20 in the evening and UA uses A22 in the morning.

NK will likely end up needing their own gate, so that rules out, B4 and B5

stlgph wrote:
If I had to place money, I'd put it on Gate B16.

B16 makes sense, although AA uses that gate for 1-2 departures in the AM, and same goes for B15.

So it will likely be either B15 or B16, or A20 or A22. That would give them one relatively underused gate, plus an adjacent gate to use in case of overflow in the future.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:14 pm

When it comes to American or Delta, someone is definitely going to have to "make room for daddy." My guess is the first door to get knocked on is American.

The Spirit morning departure is scheduled for 6:15...plenty of time to get out and let Delta come in after and run their SLC departure, too.

I dont know for a fact but I presume Spirit will outsource their ground services, likely ticketing, too.
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jake1993P wrote:
Which concourse do you all think NK will use at IND?


I'll go with either B15, B16, A20, or A22, DL uses everything from A5-A16, and UA/AC uses A17-25. Not sure about A20 and A22, but DL often uses A20 in the evening and UA uses A22 in the morning.

NK will likely end up needing their own gate, so that rules out, B4 and B5

stlgph wrote:
If I had to place money, I'd put it on Gate B16.

B16 makes sense, although AA uses that gate for 1-2 departures in the AM, and same goes for B15.

So it will likely be either B15 or B16, or A20 or A22. That would give them one relatively underused gate, plus an adjacent gate to use in case of overflow in the future.


AA is signatory on B15 and B16, so I doubt it would be those (not guaranteed, though). A20 and A22 are not signatory to anyone, so those would be likely. The real wild card would be to use A4 or A5 as a non-signatory at least initially, as their schedule puts them well outside the period where they're being used for international. That said, I think the most likely scenario is A20/A22.

I think IAA may have to do something about AA and B12. Gate space (especially for RONs) is tightening. Having an entire gate leased but completely unused really shouldn't be acceptable.

Are we hurtling toward the point where A1/2 and/or B1/2 get built?
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stlgph
Posts: 10976
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:37 pm

My second guess would have been A20/22, but I see A22 has the UA EWR departure in the early morning. I am not seeing A20 listed on the website today.

Possible it could be a split operation with the morning departure going out of one gate and the evenings coming in and out of another.

Spirit's initial schedule needs are:

645P 735P
745P 845P
530A 615A

Could get a lot of fun if the two evening flights overlap each other because of delays.

I would hope that whatever happens IAA didn't back themselves into a corner promising everyone gates and then letting them just be squatted upon. If anyone here who works at IND ground has insight.....let it fly, what you can.
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Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:56 am

I don't know if they still do it, but didn't MDW at one point require 1000 seats per day per gate?
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:43 am

floridaflyboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Jake1993P wrote:
Which concourse do you all think NK will use at IND?


I'll go with either B15, B16, A20, or A22, DL uses everything from A5-A16, and UA/AC uses A17-25. Not sure about A20 and A22, but DL often uses A20 in the evening and UA uses A22 in the morning.

NK will likely end up needing their own gate, so that rules out, B4 and B5

stlgph wrote:
If I had to place money, I'd put it on Gate B16.

B16 makes sense, although AA uses that gate for 1-2 departures in the AM, and same goes for B15.

So it will likely be either B15 or B16, or A20 or A22. That would give them one relatively underused gate, plus an adjacent gate to use in case of overflow in the future.


AA is signatory on B15 and B16, so I doubt it would be those (not guaranteed, though). A20 and A22 are not signatory to anyone, so those would be likely. The real wild card would be to use A4 or A5 as a non-signatory at least initially, as their schedule puts them well outside the period where they're being used for international. That said, I think the most likely scenario is A20/A22.

I think IAA may have to do something about AA and B12. Gate space (especially for RONs) is tightening. Having an entire gate leased but completely unused really shouldn't be acceptable.

Are we hurtling toward the point where A1/2 and/or B1/2 get built?


Wait, AA has B12 leased and doesn't run any flights out of it??? Why wouldn't they, unless the gate area is too small for the large RJs or mainline....Wasn't B12 one of the gates that was removed?

Anyway, do you have some sort of list of what gates are signatory and which aren't?
I'm guessing:
A3-F9
A4 (Int'l gate)
A5 (Int'l gate)
A6-DL
A7-DL
A8-DL
A10-DL
A11-DL
A12-DL
A13-DL
A14-DL
A15-DL
A16-DL
A17-UA
A20
A22

A23-UA
A24-AC
A25-UA

In B
B3-G4
B4 open now considering J4 is gone
B5-AS
B6-AA
B7-AA
B8-AA
B9-AA
B10-AA
B13-AA
B14-AA
B15-AA
B16-AA
B17-WN
B20-WN
B21-WN
B22-WN
B23-WN
B24-WN
B25-WN

The problem with A5 is that DL has started using that gate a lot recently, for example today they had three departures from A5. Plus NK's schedule would overlap with all the int'l flights on Saturdays. Also, G4 will need B4 moving forward, so that is likely out.

About A1/2 and/or B1/2, it is a tough call, you don't want to wait too long to build extra gates, but you also don't want to have those gates sit empty. So, ultimately it is probably too early to build those extra gates, even if G4 doubles its operation the gates they have now is enough (same goes for NK, DL, F9, e.t.c). I think that may be a few years down the road though.

stlgph wrote:
My second guess would have been A20/22, but I see A22 has the UA EWR departure in the early morning. I am not seeing A20 listed on the website today.

Possible it could be a split operation with the morning departure going out of one gate and the evenings coming in and out of another.

Spirit's initial schedule needs are:

645P 735P
745P 845P
530A 615A

Could get a lot of fun if the two evening flights overlap each other because of delays.

I would hope that whatever happens IAA didn't back themselves into a corner promising everyone gates and then letting them just be squatted upon. If anyone here who works at IND ground has insight.....let it fly, what you can.


DL has an inbound from NYC that arrives at 9pm at A20, but not sure whether that plane stays at the gate or is remotely parked (I assume the latter).

With regards to delays, I think that is why it is best to but them at A20 and A22, as both gates are close together and relatively unused.
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floridaflyboy
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:10 am

Midwestindy wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I'll go with either B15, B16, A20, or A22, DL uses everything from A5-A16, and UA/AC uses A17-25. Not sure about A20 and A22, but DL often uses A20 in the evening and UA uses A22 in the morning.

NK will likely end up needing their own gate, so that rules out, B4 and B5


B16 makes sense, although AA uses that gate for 1-2 departures in the AM, and same goes for B15.

So it will likely be either B15 or B16, or A20 or A22. That would give them one relatively underused gate, plus an adjacent gate to use in case of overflow in the future.


AA is signatory on B15 and B16, so I doubt it would be those (not guaranteed, though). A20 and A22 are not signatory to anyone, so those would be likely. The real wild card would be to use A4 or A5 as a non-signatory at least initially, as their schedule puts them well outside the period where they're being used for international. That said, I think the most likely scenario is A20/A22.

I think IAA may have to do something about AA and B12. Gate space (especially for RONs) is tightening. Having an entire gate leased but completely unused really shouldn't be acceptable.

Are we hurtling toward the point where A1/2 and/or B1/2 get built?


Wait, AA has B12 leased and doesn't run any flights out of it??? Why wouldn't they, unless the gate area is too small for the large RJs or mainline....Wasn't B12 one of the gates that was removed?

Anyway, do you have some sort of list of what gates are signatory and which aren't?
I'm guessing:
A3-F9
A4 (Int'l gate)
A5 (Int'l gate)
A6-DL
A7-DL
A8-DL
A10-DL
A11-DL
A12-DL
A13-DL
A14-DL
A15-DL
A16-DL
A17-UA
A20
A22

A23-UA
A24-AC
A25-UA

In B
B3-G4
B4 open now considering J4 is gone
B5-AS
B6-AA
B7-AA
B8-AA
B9-AA
B10-AA
B13-AA
B14-AA
B15-AA
B16-AA
B17-WN
B20-WN
B21-WN
B22-WN
B23-WN
B24-WN
B25-WN

The problem with A5 is that DL has started using that gate a lot recently, for example today they had three departures from A5. Plus NK's schedule would overlap with all the int'l flights on Saturdays. Also, G4 will need B4 moving forward, so that is likely out.

About A1/2 and/or B1/2, it is a tough call, you don't want to wait too long to build extra gates, but you also don't want to have those gates sit empty. So, ultimately it is probably too early to build those extra gates, even if G4 doubles its operation the gates they have now is enough (same goes for NK, DL, F9, e.t.c). I think that may be a few years down the road though.

stlgph wrote:
My second guess would have been A20/22, but I see A22 has the UA EWR departure in the early morning. I am not seeing A20 listed on the website today.

Possible it could be a split operation with the morning departure going out of one gate and the evenings coming in and out of another.

Spirit's initial schedule needs are:

645P 735P
745P 845P
530A 615A

Could get a lot of fun if the two evening flights overlap each other because of delays.

I would hope that whatever happens IAA didn't back themselves into a corner promising everyone gates and then letting them just be squatted upon. If anyone here who works at IND ground has insight.....let it fly, what you can.


DL has an inbound from NYC that arrives at 9pm at A20, but not sure whether that plane stays at the gate or is remotely parked (I assume the latter).

With regards to delays, I think that is why it is best to but them at A20 and A22, as both gates are close together and relatively unused.



There is absolutely nothing preventing AA from using B12. It is a mirror image of A concourse. AA (previously US) likes having more ramp space and as such has leased B12 and removed the jet bridge. Sorry AA, time to use it or lose it.

While DL may be using thos gates, we have to look carefully at the utilization of existing gates. For DL, other than head starts, there are no cases where there aren't gates available on the concourse.

The airport is going to have to begin looking carefully at this, as our signatory carriers are beginning to defend their gates. I'm all about the existing carriers expanding. But, there is absolutely no room for any new entrant to have ANY sort of restriction placed on it. This is way too new and way too large of a terminal to go down that road.
Good goes around!
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:13 am

Midwestindy wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I'll go with either B15, B16, A20, or A22, DL uses everything from A5-A16, and UA/AC uses A17-25. Not sure about A20 and A22, but DL often uses A20 in the evening and UA uses A22 in the morning.

NK will likely end up needing their own gate, so that rules out, B4 and B5


B16 makes sense, although AA uses that gate for 1-2 departures in the AM, and same goes for B15.

So it will likely be either B15 or B16, or A20 or A22. That would give them one relatively underused gate, plus an adjacent gate to use in case of overflow in the future.


AA is signatory on B15 and B16, so I doubt it would be those (not guaranteed, though). A20 and A22 are not signatory to anyone, so those would be likely. The real wild card would be to use A4 or A5 as a non-signatory at least initially, as their schedule puts them well outside the period where they're being used for international. That said, I think the most likely scenario is A20/A22.

I think IAA may have to do something about AA and B12. Gate space (especially for RONs) is tightening. Having an entire gate leased but completely unused really shouldn't be acceptable.

Are we hurtling toward the point where A1/2 and/or B1/2 get built?


Wait, AA has B12 leased and doesn't run any flights out of it??? Why wouldn't they, unless the gate area is too small for the large RJs or mainline....Wasn't B12 one of the gates that was removed?

Anyway, do you have some sort of list of what gates are signatory and which aren't?
I'm guessing:
A3-F9
A4 (Int'l gate)
A5 (Int'l gate)
A6-DL
A7-DL
A8-DL
A10-DL
A11-DL
A12-DL
A13-DL
A14-DL
A15-DL
A16-DL
A17-UA
A20
A22

A23-UA
A24-AC
A25-UA

In B
B3-G4
B4 open now considering J4 is gone
B5-AS
B6-AA
B7-AA
B8-AA
B9-AA
B10-AA
B13-AA
B14-AA
B15-AA
B16-AA
B17-WN
B20-WN
B21-WN
B22-WN
B23-WN
B24-WN
B25-WN

The problem with A5 is that DL has started using that gate a lot recently, for example today they had three departures from A5. Plus NK's schedule would overlap with all the int'l flights on Saturdays. Also, G4 will need B4 moving forward, so that is likely out.

About A1/2 and/or B1/2, it is a tough call, you don't want to wait too long to build extra gates, but you also don't want to have those gates sit empty. So, ultimately it is probably too early to build those extra gates, even if G4 doubles its operation the gates they have now is enough (same goes for NK, DL, F9, e.t.c). I think that may be a few years down the road though.

stlgph wrote:
My second guess would have been A20/22, but I see A22 has the UA EWR departure in the early morning. I am not seeing A20 listed on the website today.

Possible it could be a split operation with the morning departure going out of one gate and the evenings coming in and out of another.

Spirit's initial schedule needs are:

645P 735P
745P 845P
530A 615A

Could get a lot of fun if the two evening flights overlap each other because of delays.

I would hope that whatever happens IAA didn't back themselves into a corner promising everyone gates and then letting them just be squatted upon. If anyone here who works at IND ground has insight.....let it fly, what you can.


DL has an inbound from NYC that arrives at 9pm at A20, but not sure whether that plane stays at the gate or is remotely parked (I assume the latter).

With regards to delays, I think that is why it is best to but them at A20 and A22, as both gates are close together and relatively unused.


Oh, to discuss DL's use of A5, they have intentionally used it while other DL gates sit idle. IAA is going to have to address such situations.
Good goes around!
 
stlgph
Posts: 10976
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:22 am

It's possible other gates could have had maintenance at the time, too.

I would imagine the international gates at the airport have a similar setup as the Tom Bradley Terminal at LAX where airlines have to file a schedule intent 30 or 60 days out and then it is worked out by signatory carrier status, plane size, frequency of the flight, etc. etc. Delta's 500/501 probably has a pretty good seniority clause going for it, if someone from DL or the airport or is in the know knows...then by all means....chime on in.

Since it is a 2 hour scheduled turn, I bet Delta is in a position of never having to push out and tow over to another gate, but it *could* happen, if needed, because of a plethora of other arriving international flights at the time. Of course, mark the day and time of that ever happening but that would be a beautiful problem to have.
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zackary747
Posts: 608
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:32 am

I took a look at the Spirit flight numbers. While we do not have a Spirit 500 we will have a Spirit 317 (our city's phone area code).
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zackary747
Posts: 608
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:23 pm

Not sure if this was posted already but here is the time table for the inaugural flights. LAS and MCO 3/14 and MYR 5/2.

NK392 MCO-IND DEP: 5:15PM ARR: 7:45PM

NK317 IND-MCO DEP: 6:15AM ARR: 8:40AM

NK533 IND-LAS DEP: 8:45PM ARR: 9:40PM

NK566 LAS-IND DEP: 10:55PM ARR: 5:25AM

NK493 IND-MYR DEP: 7:35PM ARR: 9:15PM

NK366 MYR-IND DEP: 5:00PM ARR: 6:45PM

Interesting to see LAS-IND as a red-eye.
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jplatts
Posts: 2766
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
In B
B17-WN
B20-WN
B21-WN
B22-WN
B23-WN
B24-WN
B25-WN


While WN currently has 7 gates at IND, WN probably only needs 4 gates at IND since WN will only be doing 34 daily departures out of IND in Summer 2019. IND could give NK 1 or 2 of the gates currently used by WN at IND if needed.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

I'll go with either B15, B16, A20, or A22, DL uses everything from A5-A16, and UA/AC uses A17-25. Not sure about A20 and A22, but DL often uses A20 in the evening and UA uses A22 in the morning.

NK will likely end up needing their own gate, so that rules out, B4 and B5


B16 makes sense, although AA uses that gate for 1-2 departures in the AM, and same goes for B15.

So it will likely be either B15 or B16, or A20 or A22. That would give them one relatively underused gate, plus an adjacent gate to use in case of overflow in the future.


AA is signatory on B15 and B16, so I doubt it would be those (not guaranteed, though). A20 and A22 are not signatory to anyone, so those would be likely. The real wild card would be to use A4 or A5 as a non-signatory at least initially, as their schedule puts them well outside the period where they're being used for international. That said, I think the most likely scenario is A20/A22.

I think IAA may have to do something about AA and B12. Gate space (especially for RONs) is tightening. Having an entire gate leased but completely unused really shouldn't be acceptable.

Are we hurtling toward the point where A1/2 and/or B1/2 get built?


Wait, AA has B12 leased and doesn't run any flights out of it??? Why wouldn't they, unless the gate area is too small for the large RJs or mainline....Wasn't B12 one of the gates that was removed?

Anyway, do you have some sort of list of what gates are signatory and which aren't?
I'm guessing:
A3-F9
A4 (Int'l gate)
A5 (Int'l gate)
A6-DL
A7-DL
A8-DL
A10-DL
A11-DL
A12-DL
A13-DL
A14-DL
A15-DL
A16-DL
A17-UA
A20
A22

A23-UA
A24-AC
A25-UA

In B
B3-G4
B4 open now considering J4 is gone
B5-AS
B6-AA
B7-AA
B8-AA
B9-AA
B10-AA
B13-AA
B14-AA
B15-AA
B16-AA
B17-WN
B20-WN
B21-WN
B22-WN
B23-WN
B24-WN
B25-WN

The problem with A5 is that DL has started using that gate a lot recently, for example today they had three departures from A5. Plus NK's schedule would overlap with all the int'l flights on Saturdays. Also, G4 will need B4 moving forward, so that is likely out.

About A1/2 and/or B1/2, it is a tough call, you don't want to wait too long to build extra gates, but you also don't want to have those gates sit empty. So, ultimately it is probably too early to build those extra gates, even if G4 doubles its operation the gates they have now is enough (same goes for NK, DL, F9, e.t.c). I think that may be a few years down the road though.

stlgph wrote:
My second guess would have been A20/22, but I see A22 has the UA EWR departure in the early morning. I am not seeing A20 listed on the website today.

Possible it could be a split operation with the morning departure going out of one gate and the evenings coming in and out of another.

Spirit's initial schedule needs are:

645P 735P
745P 845P
530A 615A

Could get a lot of fun if the two evening flights overlap each other because of delays.

I would hope that whatever happens IAA didn't back themselves into a corner promising everyone gates and then letting them just be squatted upon. If anyone here who works at IND ground has insight.....let it fly, what you can.


DL has an inbound from NYC that arrives at 9pm at A20, but not sure whether that plane stays at the gate or is remotely parked (I assume the latter).

With regards to delays, I think that is why it is best to but them at A20 and A22, as both gates are close together and relatively unused.


I would definitely not consider B4 "open." It was shared between J4 and G4. Neither was signatory, but it gets plenty of use by G4. A24 also sees use by UA from time to time (they have those handy little computer carts they can move around).

Problem with IND is that between mergers and, to a certain extent, poor planning, space is lopsided. Far far too much counter space and what is quickly becoming too little gate space. If NK is serious about this only being the beginning, there is a very real possibility that within the next year, they may need two gates. Couple that with the rumored DL growth and we're full. The airport would be smart to either address gate under-usage or do A1/2 or B1/2. They're going to have to do one or the other. Personally, I would prefer the former. I think IND really missed the boat by not going CUTE.
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Midwestindy
Posts: 4151
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:57 pm

floridaflyboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:

AA is signatory on B15 and B16, so I doubt it would be those (not guaranteed, though). A20 and A22 are not signatory to anyone, so those would be likely. The real wild card would be to use A4 or A5 as a non-signatory at least initially, as their schedule puts them well outside the period where they're being used for international. That said, I think the most likely scenario is A20/A22.

I think IAA may have to do something about AA and B12. Gate space (especially for RONs) is tightening. Having an entire gate leased but completely unused really shouldn't be acceptable.

Are we hurtling toward the point where A1/2 and/or B1/2 get built?


Wait, AA has B12 leased and doesn't run any flights out of it??? Why wouldn't they, unless the gate area is too small for the large RJs or mainline....Wasn't B12 one of the gates that was removed?

Anyway, do you have some sort of list of what gates are signatory and which aren't?
I'm guessing:
A3-F9
A4 (Int'l gate)
A5 (Int'l gate)
A6-DL
A7-DL
A8-DL
A10-DL
A11-DL
A12-DL
A13-DL
A14-DL
A15-DL
A16-DL
A17-UA
A20
A22

A23-UA
A24-AC
A25-UA

In B
B3-G4
B4 open now considering J4 is gone
B5-AS
B6-AA
B7-AA
B8-AA
B9-AA
B10-AA
B13-AA
B14-AA
B15-AA
B16-AA
B17-WN
B20-WN
B21-WN
B22-WN
B23-WN
B24-WN
B25-WN

The problem with A5 is that DL has started using that gate a lot recently, for example today they had three departures from A5. Plus NK's schedule would overlap with all the int'l flights on Saturdays. Also, G4 will need B4 moving forward, so that is likely out.

About A1/2 and/or B1/2, it is a tough call, you don't want to wait too long to build extra gates, but you also don't want to have those gates sit empty. So, ultimately it is probably too early to build those extra gates, even if G4 doubles its operation the gates they have now is enough (same goes for NK, DL, F9, e.t.c). I think that may be a few years down the road though.

stlgph wrote:
My second guess would have been A20/22, but I see A22 has the UA EWR departure in the early morning. I am not seeing A20 listed on the website today.

Possible it could be a split operation with the morning departure going out of one gate and the evenings coming in and out of another.

Spirit's initial schedule needs are:

645P 735P
745P 845P
530A 615A

Could get a lot of fun if the two evening flights overlap each other because of delays.

I would hope that whatever happens IAA didn't back themselves into a corner promising everyone gates and then letting them just be squatted upon. If anyone here who works at IND ground has insight.....let it fly, what you can.


DL has an inbound from NYC that arrives at 9pm at A20, but not sure whether that plane stays at the gate or is remotely parked (I assume the latter).

With regards to delays, I think that is why it is best to but them at A20 and A22, as both gates are close together and relatively unused.


Oh, to discuss DL's use of A5, they have intentionally used it while other DL gates sit idle. IAA is going to have to address such situations.


Isn't the joke kind of on DL on this one, considering they would be paying more to use that gate. Also, DL/NW have been given preferential treatment since the terminal opened so I am not too surprised.

DL probably wants to use A5 as it is closer to the SkyClub compared to A16.

floridaflyboy wrote:
I would definitely not consider B4 "open." It was shared between J4 and G4. Neither was signatory, but it gets plenty of use by G4. A24 also sees use by UA from time to time (they have those handy little computer carts they can move around).

Problem with IND is that between mergers and, to a certain extent, poor planning, space is lopsided. Far far too much counter space and what is quickly becoming too little gate space. If NK is serious about this only being the beginning, there is a very real possibility that within the next year, they may need two gates. Couple that with the rumored DL growth and we're full. The airport would be smart to either address gate under-usage or do A1/2 or B1/2. They're going to have to do one or the other. Personally, I would prefer the former. I think IND really missed the boat by not going CUTE.


I think we can say with almost certainty that these won't be the last routes that NK announces in the coming year, as they keep banging everyone over the head with "we see potential for growth" http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/st ... wth-at-ind

Let's say DL gets up to ~50 departures, they won't need any extra gates than they currently have, probably would still even need less (except in the mornings?)

With G4 getting B3 and B4 to allow for expansion, that basically closes off B. Unless the airport can get AA to budge on some of those gates.

I agree the problem isn't necessarily gates space it's gate utilization, and airlines aren't going to be willing to give up space. I can't imagine DL being willing to give up their gate to B6, but at the same time they shouldn't be able to run 1 flight a day out of a lot of their gates. A few airlines are going to need gate space, including G4, UA, NK, and potentially SY and B6, if IAA curtails this gate usage problem they could free up 4-5 gates from AA and DL combined.

jplatts wrote:
[
While WN currently has 7 gates at IND, WN probably only needs 4 gates at IND since WN will only be doing 34 daily departures out of IND in Summer 2019. IND could give NK 1 or 2 of the gates currently used by WN at IND if needed.


WN gets up to 42 departures during Spring Break, so they need more than 4 gates to effectively run their schedule.

stlgph wrote:
It's possible other gates could have had maintenance at the time, too.

I would imagine the international gates at the airport have a similar setup as the Tom Bradley Terminal at LAX where airlines have to file a schedule intent 30 or 60 days out and then it is worked out by signatory carrier status, plane size, frequency of the flight, etc. etc. Delta's 500/501 probably has a pretty good seniority clause going for it, if someone from DL or the airport or is in the know knows...then by all means....chime on in.

Since it is a 2 hour scheduled turn, I bet Delta is in a position of never having to push out and tow over to another gate, but it *could* happen, if needed, because of a plethora of other arriving international flights at the time. Of course, mark the day and time of that ever happening but that would be a beautiful problem to have.


They may need to tow next year, although they will probably tow the PUJ flight.
What Int'l gate usage will be next March in the evening:
Vacation Express PUJ-IND-5:25 pm
DL CDG-IND 5:40 pm
WN CUN-IND 6:15 pm
IND-CDG 7:15pm
DL CUN-IND 8:08 pm
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:50 pm

Who is Vacation Express being flown by? Swift?
I presume the departure would be out the next morning? But yes, I see them coming in and getting the push out for Southwest especially with Delta only scheduling what...100 minutes to turn their 767 around?

Does A3 connect to customs, too, or no.
My photographic memory forgets.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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zackary747
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:52 pm

stlgph wrote:
Who is Vacation Express being flown by? Swift?
I presume the departure would be out the next morning? But yes, I see them coming in and getting the push out for Southwest especially with Delta only scheduling what...100 minutes to turn their 767 around?

Does A3 connect to customs, too, or no.
My photographic memory forgets.


Both the CUN and PUJ Vacation Express flights will be flown by Allegiant next year.
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:11 pm

Oh yeah, those will be pulled out and moved over.

That being said, it's still possible the DL 767 could get moved out and over quickly. Doubtful it'll come to that but you never know. I've seen Norwegian come into T1 at JFK dart quickly to one of the 380 gates to unload then push back out and over one gate to make way for a signatory carrier to load up and get out in less than 2 hours.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:26 pm

Will the customs area and officers be able to handle those flights in a short time period? It’s not like we have 50 officers stationed at IND, unlike ORD, ATL.... etc.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:23 am

fedex1 wrote:
Will the customs area and officers be able to handle those flights in a short time period? It’s not like we have 50 officers stationed at IND, unlike ORD, ATL.... etc.


It was discussed a bit upthread, but yes it will be able to handle it. Will it be quick...no, but it is what it is, and it likely won't change anytime soon until IND gets multiple daily int'l flights (outside of pre clearance flights).

Btw December Board Packet is out:
https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... at-Pro.pdf

1. Rates will be finalized on Friday, across the board cuts in airline fees
2. Cargo Building Expansion, "The capacity of the existing 40,000 square-foot building has been exceeded and the IAA Properties Group has determined a 50% expansion in building space is required to meet current and nearterm cargo volumes." I believe the expansion will be finished sometime in 2019.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2018

Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:14 pm

DL should try IND-FLL/TPA

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