Is there a way to find out PWM's enplanements through July for this year?

Interesting to note that apparently, Elite Air will be starting Friday only flights between PWM and Key West, FL, starting October 19th.

The flights are now bookable on their website.

I was just listening to a report projecting travel patterns out to 2027 and there were a few things that caught my attention. Here's a few.
1. Point to point flying will continue to increase as airlines value O&D over connecting traffic. More people will fly nonstop than connect somewhere.
2. Many cities and hubs large enough to have lots of point to point flights will clog up and need to go to fewer and larger aircraft provided that the terminals can handle the number of passengers. Boston fell into this category.
3. Overall growth at large cities and hubs is expected to be around 25 to 30% or until the infrastructure is maxed. Nothing specific to Boston was cited.
4. Regional airports are expecting up to 40% growth on average, in part because of big cities and hubs clogging up. Small cities without enough O&D traffic on specific routes will continue to lose service, especially if near a larger airport.
5. Providence, Albany, Manchester, Charleston (SC) and Jacksonville were all specifically cited as being likely to gain small aircraft trans-Atlantic service to the EU/UK.

Providence is ahead of the curve on this and testing the waters. Seems like MHT better start thinking more about building customs if they want in the game. My guess is that PWM is too far from Boston to be in the trans-Atlantic game to draw from the edges of the Boston metro area to support filling those flights. But if PWM is filling those longer F9 flights, who knows.

What is the logic of Elite airways having one way flights to Key West with no return options? PWM-MLB-Key West. Am I supposed to drive back to Maine? What professor comes up with these routes? Elite is back to Islip also with flights to MLB after leaving. How long is this going to last? Vero Beach flights are now available only from Newark. PWM, Asheville, and White Plains all stop Sept 2nd. So make plans to drive to another airport to get back to Maine after sept 2. The reviews on Elite are not that great for example leaving people high and dry due to over booking with NCAA teams, weather related issues that causes planes to divert to take on more gas(CRJ200,100) to MLB and SRQ from PWM. Over priced tickets, the list goes on. Prices to SRQ from PWM have gone down due to F9 going to RSW and TPA.

LotsaRunway wrote:

I was just listening to a report projecting travel patterns out to 2027 and there were a few things that caught my attention. Here's a few.
1. Point to point flying will continue to increase as airlines value O&D over connecting traffic. More people will fly nonstop than connect somewhere.
2. Many cities and hubs large enough to have lots of point to point flights will clog up and need to go to fewer and larger aircraft provided that the terminals can handle the number of passengers. Boston fell into this category.
3. Overall growth at large cities and hubs is expected to be around 25 to 30% or until the infrastructure is maxed. Nothing specific to Boston was cited.
4. Regional airports are expecting up to 40% growth on average, in part because of big cities and hubs clogging up. Small cities without enough O&D traffic on specific routes will continue to lose service, especially if near a larger airport.
5. Providence, Albany, Manchester, Charleston (SC) and Jacksonville were all specifically cited as being likely to gain small aircraft trans-Atlantic service to the EU/UK.

Providence is ahead of the curve on this and testing the waters. Seems like MHT better start thinking more about building customs if they want in the game. My guess is that PWM is too far from Boston to be in the trans-Atlantic game to draw from the edges of the Boston metro area to support filling those flights. But if PWM is filling those longer F9 flights, who knows.

Thanks for the excellent post!

It's pretty exciting news for us MHT fans. We need something like BOS filling up to help MHT grow. I hope that MHT management does as you suggest.

It's also exciting to those of us who are fans of the A321NEO/LR/XLR (especially with Pratt GTF) and the Boeing '797'.

LotsaRunway wrote:

Providence is ahead of the curve on this and testing the waters. Seems like MHT better start thinking more about building customs if they want in the game. My guess is that PWM is too far from Boston to be in the trans-Atlantic game to draw from the edges of the Boston metro area to support filling those flights. But if PWM is filling those longer F9 flights, who knows.

I wouldn't entirely rule PWM out for transatlantic service in the future. I know Jetport management and the Icelandic business community in Portland are working VERY hard to get a flight to KEF (Reykjavik)

The Portland Jetport is supposed to start building a FIS station in 2019 according to their long term plan, even though most airports(intl) are now pre customs. Other plans include expanding the garage(2019-2020), baggage area(2018-2019) moving shipyard to another location, moving the escalators; ,Gates 1-7 waiting area renovation(2018-2019) and extra gates. The recent grant will expand the apron at Gate 1, in addition to the recent work, and Gate 14. Various taxiway reconstruction, new run up at 11/29

paysonmt77 wrote:

The Portland Jetport is supposed to start building a FIS station in 2019 according to their long term plan, even though most airports(intl) are now pre customs. Other plans include expanding the garage(2019-2020), baggage area(2018-2019) moving shipyard to another location, moving the escalators; ,Gates 1-7 waiting area renovation(2018-2019) and extra gates. The recent grant will expand the apron at Gate 1, in addition to the recent work, and Gate 14. Various taxiway reconstruction, new run up at 11/29

Random question: What happens when a TATL bizjet arrives at PWM (or indeed any other airport without full time customs/FIS onsite)? I have noticed in the past few months that PWM has had a few business jet transatlantic departures (LTN, LBG, INV) and arrivals (WAW, VIE, SNN) and I am curious as to what the protocol is when a transatlantic arrival comes in as far as customs/immigration/etc. go.

Fex180 wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

Providence is ahead of the curve on this and testing the waters. Seems like MHT better start thinking more about building customs if they want in the game. My guess is that PWM is too far from Boston to be in the trans-Atlantic game to draw from the edges of the Boston metro area to support filling those flights. But if PWM is filling those longer F9 flights, who knows.

I wouldn't entirely rule PWM out for transatlantic service in the future. I know Jetport management and the Icelandic business community in Portland are working VERY hard to get a flight to KEF (Reykjavik)

I could see PWM-KEF with a B38M; not sure about mainland Europe or the UK/IE. You never know!

33lspotter wrote:

paysonmt77 wrote:

The Portland Jetport is supposed to start building a FIS station in 2019 according to their long term plan, even though most airports(intl) are now pre customs. Other plans include expanding the garage(2019-2020), baggage area(2018-2019) moving shipyard to another location, moving the escalators; ,Gates 1-7 waiting area renovation(2018-2019) and extra gates. The recent grant will expand the apron at Gate 1, in addition to the recent work, and Gate 14. Various taxiway reconstruction, new run up at 11/29

Random question: What happens when a TATL bizjet arrives at PWM (or indeed any other airport without full time customs/FIS onsite)? I have noticed in the past few months that PWM has had a few business jet transatlantic departures (LTN, LBG, INV) and arrivals (WAW, VIE, SNN) and I am curious as to what the protocol is when a transatlantic arrival comes in as far as customs/immigration/etc. go.

Fex180 wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

Providence is ahead of the curve on this and testing the waters. Seems like MHT better start thinking more about building customs if they want in the game. My guess is that PWM is too far from Boston to be in the trans-Atlantic game to draw from the edges of the Boston metro area to support filling those flights. But if PWM is filling those longer F9 flights, who knows.

I wouldn't entirely rule PWM out for transatlantic service in the future. I know Jetport management and the Icelandic business community in Portland are working VERY hard to get a flight to KEF (Reykjavik)

I could see PWM-KEF with a B38M; not sure about mainland Europe or the UK/IE. You never know!

WEX, Eimskip and Unum all have substantial operations in either Iceland or the UK (or both), so PWM does handle a decent amount of TATL business Jets. From what I can tell planespotting at the Jetport...Customs officials meet the plane at the the stand.

There is a building across from FedEx at PWM for intl private jets that are received before going to MAC or Northeast Air. They usually call about 15-20min out before wheels down. The customs people will drive to the airport and meet the plane. After customs, the plane then heads over to the FBO. When jetblue comes in with their new plane, officials will meet the plane usually at Northeast air or the terminal before getting refueled.

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paysonmt77 wrote:

There is a building across from FedEx at PWM for intl private jets that are received before going to MAC or Northeast Air. They usually call about 15-20min out before wheels down. The customs people will drive to the airport and meet the plane. After customs, the plane then heads over to the FBO. When jetblue comes in with their new plane, officials will meet the plane usually at Northeast air or the terminal before getting refueled.

Out of sheer curiosity, why does B6 bring new deliveries through PWM and not BGR or BOS??

BGR has no B6 station as well as MHT, JetBlue much rather go to an airport with a station. PWM is closer to the plant and BOS is too congested to handle a plane with no passengers and two pilots. Then the plane leaves to go to Florida for final installs.

paysonmt77 wrote:

What is the logic of Elite airways having one way flights to Key West with no return options? PWM-MLB-Key West. Am I supposed to drive back to Maine? What professor comes up with these routes? Elite is back to Islip also with flights to MLB after leaving. How long is this going to last? Vero Beach flights are now available only from Newark. PWM, Asheville, and White Plains all stop Sept 2nd. So make plans to drive to another airport to get back to Maine after sept 2. The reviews on Elite are not that great for example leaving people high and dry due to over booking with NCAA teams, weather related issues that causes planes to divert to take on more gas(CRJ200,100) to MLB and SRQ from PWM. Over priced tickets, the list goes on. Prices to SRQ from PWM have gone down due to F9 going to RSW and TPA.

I wouldn’t call their fares overpriced for niche travelers theyre trying to fill their planes with going non-stop to secondary cities in Florida. For people going to their second homes, etc, $400 rt is pretty reasonable to go non-stop with a free checked bag somewhere like Melbourne or Vero Beach, which would usually require a connection. And perhaps driving another hour+ from a larger airport like MCO or PBI

They only have 50 seats to fill with their “higher” fares, too. Not 150.

33lspotter wrote:

paysonmt77 wrote:

The Portland Jetport is supposed to start building a FIS station in 2019 according to their long term plan, even though most airports(intl) are now pre customs. Other plans include expanding the garage(2019-2020), baggage area(2018-2019) moving shipyard to another location, moving the escalators; ,Gates 1-7 waiting area renovation(2018-2019) and extra gates. The recent grant will expand the apron at Gate 1, in addition to the recent work, and Gate 14. Various taxiway reconstruction, new run up at 11/29

Random question: What happens when a TATL bizjet arrives at PWM (or indeed any other airport without full time customs/FIS onsite)? I have noticed in the past few months that PWM has had a few business jet transatlantic departures (LTN, LBG, INV) and arrivals (WAW, VIE, SNN) and I am curious as to what the protocol is when a transatlantic arrival comes in as far as customs/immigration/etc. go.

PWM has had customs on site for forty years. Thus the reason for its international designation. They use to have a mobile trailer over by the cargo apron.

Historically it was the Portland-Westbrook Municpal airport. When it got Customs in the 70s, it became Portland international Jetport.

Business jets from Europe are nothing out of the ordinary or new. As well as GA flights from Canada coming almost everyday.

Here’s a Gulfstream that came in from Scotland yesterday evening.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PRD ... /EGPE/KPWM

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

PWM has had customs on site for forty years. Thus the reason for its international designation. They use to have a mobile trailer over by the cargo apron.

Historically it was the Portland-Westbrook Municpal airport. When it got Customs in the 70s, it became Portland international Jetport.

Business jets from Europe are nothing out of the ordinary or new. As well as GA flights from Canada coming almost everyday.

Here’s a Gulfstream that came in from Scotland yesterday evening.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PRD ... /EGPE/KPWM

I have been watching a number of PWM TATL flights coming in and going out — I tracked the outbound leg of that INV-PWM flight — but I did not know they were even semi-regular until recently. I've flown many of those routes on FSX, particularly enjoying 11 departures and turning northeast, whereas most flights out of PWM (even the commercial ones on the HSKEL2/NUBLE3) don't fly that direction for more than a few miles, so I found it cool to learn that some have indeed had those experiences.

Didn't realize that they had customs on-site; I guess I always figured that they occasionally had flights from Canada and so that was the reason the "International" was there. As far as the name "Jetport" goes, for a number of years I had to laugh that they called it that considering how many B1900s and Dash-8s were serving the city. I guess it certainly is distinguishing from other airports in Southern Maine which were prop-only versus Portland where there were jets (not counting ad hoc movements at SFM/NHZ (BXM)/etc.). Either way, it is a unique moniker, for sure, and with a number of mainline jets these days, has become more appropriate as time has gone on.

33Lspotter,

I was renamed Portland international Jetport because PDX was already named Portland International airport.

I’m almost certain a small customs processing station was constructed upstairs by former gate 10 during the 1996 expansion. As far as I know, it was never used? It maybe have been removed when they expanded the terminal again about eight years ago?

There were expansions to PWM in 1977, 1984, 1996, and the most recent one. You may also be interested to learn PQI services tranAtlantic business jets reasonably often. More so during strong jetstreams winter. You’ll see them on Flightaware sometimes.

paysonmt77 wrote:

The Portland Jetport is supposed to start building a FIS station in 2019 according to their long term plan, even though most airports(intl) are now pre customs. Other plans include expanding the garage(2019-2020), baggage area(2018-2019) moving shipyard to another location, moving the escalators; ,Gates 1-7 waiting area renovation(2018-2019) and extra gates. The recent grant will expand the apron at Gate 1, in addition to the recent work, and Gate 14. Various taxiway reconstruction, new run up at 11/29

When you say most int. airports are now pre customs are you referring to customs pre-clearance? There are only 15 pre-clearance airports at the moment, besides 8 airports in Canada, only Dublin and Shannon airports in Europe are pre-clearance airports.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

33Lspotter,

I was renamed Portland international Jetport because PDX was already named Portland International airport.

Ah, that makes sense.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

I’m almost certain a small customs processing station was constructed upstairs by former gate 10 during the 1996 expansion. As far as I know, it was never used? It maybe have been removed when they expanded the terminal again about eight years ago?

There were expansions to PWM in 1977, 1984, 1996, and the most recent one. You may also be interested to learn PQI services tranAtlantic business jets reasonably often. More so during strong jetstreams winter. You’ll see them on Flightaware sometimes.

Interesting! Would never have guessed PQI. Thanks for that nugget of knowledge. I have not been to PWM in eight years so couldn't say whether or not it's there. That being said, I think I may start taking lessons at PWM on the weekend (I live in MA, but my parents still live in ME) as it's significantly cheaper than BED/etc. Though I'm now a "Flatlander," I am always looking for excuses to come up for a weekend.

uconn99 wrote:

paysonmt77 wrote:

The Portland Jetport is supposed to start building a FIS station in 2019 according to their long term plan, even though most airports(intl) are now pre customs. Other plans include expanding the garage(2019-2020), baggage area(2018-2019) moving shipyard to another location, moving the escalators; ,Gates 1-7 waiting area renovation(2018-2019) and extra gates. The recent grant will expand the apron at Gate 1, in addition to the recent work, and Gate 14. Various taxiway reconstruction, new run up at 11/29

When you say most int. airports are now pre customs are you referring to customs pre-clearance? There are only 15 pre-clearance airports at the moment, besides 8 airports in Canada, only Dublin and Shannon airports in Europe are pre-clearance airports.

Ha-Ha. I wanted to say the number is lower than 15 and it is actually 13 to be precise and even BOS has flights to only 60% of these locations.

Canada: YYC, YEG, YHZ, YUL, YOW, YYZ, YVR, YWG
Caribbean: AUA, NAS
Ireland: SNN, DUB
Middle East: AUH

The list of wish list airports is endless but very few will ever get it!

Fex180 wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

Providence is ahead of the curve on this and testing the waters. Seems like MHT better start thinking more about building customs if they want in the game. My guess is that PWM is too far from Boston to be in the trans-Atlantic game to draw from the edges of the Boston metro area to support filling those flights. But if PWM is filling those longer F9 flights, who knows.

I wouldn't entirely rule PWM out for transatlantic service in the future. I know Jetport management and the Icelandic business community in Portland are working VERY hard to get a flight to KEF (Reykjavik)

I seriously doubt it. If there ever is service to KEF, it will be heavily subsidized by one of those companies, unless they can provide enough passengers to book out first class every flight. Even then, I'm not sure the flight would break even?

If Eimskip suits need to come here, they can easily reach PWM via JFK with either DL or Icelandair. Or even charter a corporate jet, if they don't already have access to one.

Not sure how many people fly PWM to any destination in Europe on any given day, but I'm sure it's not enough to even come close to filling a 737? In the off season, September through May, forget about it. Maine is a poor state with low wages, prodominently working class and the people here aren't very worldy or well traveled for the most part . For many Mainer's , even going as far as NYC is a big trip. A trip to Florida, or going anywhere on a plane is a trip of a lifetime for a lot of Maine natives.

PWM's Customs offices were reconfigured and associated equipment removed shortly after 9-11 as the entire space was taken over by the TSA. Kind of sad because the Customs area was brand new and I don't think it ever had the chance to be used for what it was originally intended for.

Portlander wrote:

PWM's Customs offices were reconfigured and associated equipment removed shortly after 9-11 as the entire space was taken over by the TSA. Kind of sad because the Customs area was brand new and I don't think it ever had the chance to be used for what it was originally intended for.

Thank you for the info. I could have sworn they built a small processing station off old Gate 10 in the 1996 expansion. It's been twenty-two years though, so I wasn't sure if I was remembering that correctly.

In the past, 2000's, there have been Air Canada flights to YYZ and YUL. During early 1990s, Northwest Airlink also flew PWM-YQB in Saturday's, too. Not sure if PWM had pre clearance for Canada?

33lspotter wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

33Lspotter,

I was renamed Portland international Jetport because PDX was already named Portland International airport.

Ah, that makes sense.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

I’m almost certain a small customs processing station was constructed upstairs by former gate 10 during the 1996 expansion. As far as I know, it was never used? It maybe have been removed when they expanded the terminal again about eight years ago?

There were expansions to PWM in 1977, 1984, 1996, and the most recent one. You may also be interested to learn PQI services tranAtlantic business jets reasonably often. More so during strong jetstreams winter. You’ll see them on Flightaware sometimes.

Interesting! Would never have guessed PQI. Thanks for that nugget of knowledge. I have not been to PWM in eight years so couldn't say whether or not it's there. That being said, I think I may start taking lessons at PWM on the weekend (I live in MA, but my parents still live in ME) as it's significantly cheaper than BED/etc. Though I'm now a "Flatlander," I am always looking for excuses to come up for a weekend.

PQI is designated a regional airport, but it's only miles from a border checkpoint, so Customs may only come to PQI on pre-request? Its runway is as long as PWM, though. It was originally an Air Force base for fighters in the 1950's. A satellite of Loring AFB.

Not sure if there is anymore flight school at PWM these days?. I went to Northeast Air for my private, but they closed the flight school in 2000 when I was finishing up. Maine Avaition closed theirs a few years later. Perhaps one come back? I went down to SFM to finish my private. They still do instruction there and it's a bit closer to Boston than PWM. You can always fly up from SFM and shoot touch and goes at PWM. It's only a 15 minute flight from SFM.

Also consider Biddeford Municple -B19 and Brunswick-BXM. They're also in the PWM area and have FBO's with flight instruction. Cheaper than learning at PWM, too.

^ You are correct, the physical space was there but funding to actually turn it into a Customs facility didn't materialize until around 2000-01. I was actually working for the TSA immediately after 9-11 and remember the contractors ripping out all of the Customs related equipment, walls, cubicles and even carpet. Happened almost overnight because we needed the space to set up staffing and operations, our training had to be conducted out in the concourse area at night after the last flight arrived. Had previously worked for Delta and recall the proposed Customs space being empty for quite some time.

iyerhari wrote:

uconn99 wrote:

paysonmt77 wrote:

The Portland Jetport is supposed to start building a FIS station in 2019 according to their long term plan, even though most airports(intl) are now pre customs. Other plans include expanding the garage(2019-2020), baggage area(2018-2019) moving shipyard to another location, moving the escalators; ,Gates 1-7 waiting area renovation(2018-2019) and extra gates. The recent grant will expand the apron at Gate 1, in addition to the recent work, and Gate 14. Various taxiway reconstruction, new run up at 11/29

When you say most int. airports are now pre customs are you referring to customs pre-clearance? There are only 15 pre-clearance airports at the moment, besides 8 airports in Canada, only Dublin and Shannon airports in Europe are pre-clearance airports.

Ha-Ha. I wanted to say the number is lower than 15 and it is actually 13 to be precise and even BOS has flights to only 60% of these locations.

Canada: YYC, YEG, YHZ, YUL, YOW, YYZ, YVR, YWG
Caribbean: AUA, NAS
Ireland: SNN, DUB
Middle East: AUH

The list of wish list airports is endless but very few will ever get it!

"15 air Preclearance locations in 6 countries: Dublin and Shannon in Ireland; Aruba; Freeport and Nassau in The Bahamas; Bermuda; Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates; and Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, and Winnipeg in Canada. CBP also staffs a Pre-inspection facility for passenger/vehicle ferry traffic to the U.S. in Victoria, Canada."

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/por ... eclearance

uconn99 wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

uconn99 wrote:

When you say most int. airports are now pre customs are you referring to customs pre-clearance? There are only 15 pre-clearance airports at the moment, besides 8 airports in Canada, only Dublin and Shannon airports in Europe are pre-clearance airports.

Ha-Ha. I wanted to say the number is lower than 15 and it is actually 13 to be precise and even BOS has flights to only 60% of these locations.

Canada: YYC, YEG, YHZ, YUL, YOW, YYZ, YVR, YWG
Caribbean: AUA, NAS
Ireland: SNN, DUB
Middle East: AUH

The list of wish list airports is endless but very few will ever get it!

"15 air Preclearance locations in 6 countries: Dublin and Shannon in Ireland; Aruba; Freeport and Nassau in The Bahamas; Bermuda; Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates; and Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, and Winnipeg in Canada. CBP also staffs a Pre-inspection facility for passenger/vehicle ferry traffic to the U.S. in Victoria, Canada."

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/por ... eclearance

Kind of sad out of all of Europe,only SNN and DUB have Preclearence, two low volume destinations.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

LotsaRunway wrote:

Providence is ahead of the curve on this and testing the waters. Seems like MHT better start thinking more about building customs if they want in the game. My guess is that PWM is too far from Boston to be in the trans-Atlantic game to draw from the edges of the Boston metro area to support filling those flights. But if PWM is filling those longer F9 flights, who knows.

I wouldn't entirely rule PWM out for transatlantic service in the future. I know Jetport management and the Icelandic business community in Portland are working VERY hard to get a flight to KEF (Reykjavik)

I seriously doubt it. If there ever is service to KEF, it will be heavily subsidized by one of those companies, unless they can provide enough passengers to book out first class every flight. Even then, I'm not sure the flight would break even?

If Eimskip suits need to come here, they can easily reach PWM via JFK with either DL or Icelandair. Or even charter a corporate jet, if they don't already have access to one.

Not sure how many people fly PWM to any destination in Europe on any given day, but I'm sure it's not enough to even come close to filling a 737? In the off season, September through May, forget about it. Maine is a poor state with low wages, prodominently working class and the people here aren't very worldy or well traveled for the most part . For many Mainer's , even going as far as NYC is a big trip. A trip to Florida, or going anywhere on a plane is a trip of a lifetime for a lot of Maine natives.

I think that's a little bit oversimplified. I wouldn't exactly call the Portland area poor and working-class. Southern Maine is very demographically similar to New Hampshire, so if we can discuss the idea of MHT having TATL flights then it can't be too absurd to imagine the same for PWM. I doubt any TATL service from Portland (or Manchester) would run daily, I think Jetport management has said a seasonal 1-2x weekly service would be a realistic place to start. clearly most of the demand would be driven by European visitors which is a strong growing Market in Maine.... But I will say that I see quite a few suitcases destined for terminal E every time I take the Concord Coach bus to Portland to Boston, so don't underestimate the demand from Mainers.

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

I wouldn't entirely rule PWM out for transatlantic service in the future. I know Jetport management and the Icelandic business community in Portland are working VERY hard to get a flight to KEF (Reykjavik)

I seriously doubt it. If there ever is service to KEF, it will be heavily subsidized by one of those companies, unless they can provide enough passengers to book out first class every flight. Even then, I'm not sure the flight would break even?

If Eimskip suits need to come here, they can easily reach PWM via JFK with either DL or Icelandair. Or even charter a corporate jet, if they don't already have access to one.

Not sure how many people fly PWM to any destination in Europe on any given day, but I'm sure it's not enough to even come close to filling a 737? In the off season, September through May, forget about it. Maine is a poor state with low wages, prodominently working class and the people here aren't very worldy or well traveled for the most part . For many Mainer's , even going as far as NYC is a big trip. A trip to Florida, or going anywhere on a plane is a trip of a lifetime for a lot of Maine natives.

I think that's a little bit oversimplified. I wouldn't exactly call the Portland area poor and working-class. Southern Maine is very demographically similar to New Hampshire, so if we can discuss the idea of MHT having TATL flights then it can't be too absurd to imagine the same for PWM. I doubt any TATL service from Portland (or Manchester) would run daily, I think Jetport management has said a seasonal 1-2x weekly service would be a realistic place to start. clearly most of the demand would be driven by European visitors which is a strong growing Market in Maine.... But I will say that I see quite a few suitcases destined for terminal E every time I take the Concord Coach bus to Portland to Boston, so don't underestimate the demand from Mainers.

Yeah, I think any operation that would come in would be based on traffic not originating in Maine. I think we Mainers (I still consider myself a Mainer as I was born and raised) do tend to think of route development from a Maine-centric lens sometimes, as evidenced by the number of comments like "why the heck are airlines running Florida flights during the summer? Nobody from Maine wants to go to Florida during the summer!" while seemingly forgetting that Florida is the third-most populous U.S. state, has a population that is 15 times that of Maine, and that Floridians are much more likely to visit Maine during the summer rather than the winter. It's true that a flight to Europe probably couldn't be substantiated based on Maine-based O+D, but I think the traffic coming the other way would play a bigger role. Regardless, there are more European visitors to Maine in the summer than one might think.

As for Maine folks looking to travel by air, I think the general downward trend in prices both at PWM and nationwide (I remember flying out of PWM 10 years ago to other places on the Eastern Seaboard was $600+) has played a role in the increasing passenger traffic at the Jetport. Of course, some of this might have been "plugging" of existing leakage, which was likely spurred on by the arrivals of B6 and WN, but I would still venture to guess that stimulated demand played a part in the equation.

FWIW, IDEXX (headquartered in Westbrook) has a number of operations in Europe, particularly Hoofddorp, right next to AMS. (I know this because I interned there for a summer and the Hoofddorp office was mentioned frequently.) Sure, there are a number of Portland-area businesses for whom this is probably the case (WEX/Unum/etc.) and not saying it's enough to substantiate a business flight, but just pointing out that Eimskip is far from the only business with ops in Maine and abroad.

Again, I would think KEF would come before any of mainland Europe or the British Isles. That being said, it's a much different proposition to send a narrowbody like a B38M or A321 (smaller in terms of fuel costs and # of seats to fill) versus a 767/A330/etc. This is not to say that WW or FI will be announcing tomorrow, but it's perhaps not as far-fetched as some (myself included) may have thought.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

PQI is designated a regional airport, but it's only miles from a border checkpoint, so Customs may only come to PQI on pre-request? Its runway is as long as PWM, though. It was originally an Air Force base for fighters in the 1950's. A satellite of Loring AFB.

Are you sure about that? I thought Presque Isle was the home of an air base used for transport aircraft during the Second World War--in fact I seem to remember Ernest K. Gann writing about flying DC-3s to remote outposts in Greenland from Presque Isle in "Fate Is the Hunter."

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

You may also be interested to learn PQI services tranAtlantic business jets reasonably often. More so during strong jetstreams winter. You’ll see them on Flightaware sometimes.

Not to turn this into a random TATL movements involving Maine post, but by chance I saw a GLEX flying from BHB to FAB in England today on FR24. Wasn't on Flightaware but took some screenshots since I thought it was pretty cool.

VC10DC10 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

PQI is designated a regional airport, but it's only miles from a border checkpoint, so Customs may only come to PQI on pre-request? Its runway is as long as PWM, though. It was originally an Air Force base for fighters in the 1950's. A satellite of Loring AFB.

Are you sure about that? I thought Presque Isle was the home of an air base used for transport aircraft during the Second World War--in fact I seem to remember Ernest K. Gann writing about flying DC-3s to remote outposts in Greenland from Presque Isle in "Fate Is the Hunter."

I don't know the history during the WW2 years, but there were F-104s at PQI during the 1950's, until the Air Force left in 1961. There were also nuclear missle silos at PQI. I think they may still there? Long Inactive of course.

There were also -104's at Dow AFB (Now BGR) Loring AFB wasn't built until just after WW2. I believe the -104s were at PQI to provide defense for nearby Loring, which was a heavy SAC bomber base.

Has anyone seen the recently published magazine on BGR airport? The company I work for published that magazine lots of great photos and information in it.

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

I wouldn't entirely rule PWM out for transatlantic service in the future. I know Jetport management and the Icelandic business community in Portland are working VERY hard to get a flight to KEF (Reykjavik)

I think that's a little bit oversimplified. I wouldn't exactly call the Portland area poor and working-class. Southern Maine is very demographically similar to New Hampshire, so if we can discuss the idea of MHT having TATL flights then it can't be too absurd to imagine the same for PWM. I doubt any TATL service from Portland (or Manchester) would run daily, I think Jetport management has said a seasonal 1-2x weekly service would be a realistic place to start. clearly most of the demand would be driven by European visitors which is a strong growing Market in Maine.... But I will say that I see quite a few suitcases destined for terminal E every time I take the Concord Coach bus to Portland to Boston, so don't underestimate the demand from Mainers.

Let's say, hypothetically, there was just enough business and leisure O/D passengers between PWM and KEF to attract a flight. Business executives aren't going to fly on a likely LCC carrier such as Wow Air with no 1st class, and limited flits only 1-2 couple days per week with no other options if a fight gets canceled or delayed.

Leisure traveler's coming from Europe are mostly only coming during the June-September tourist season. There's not even a lot of domestic U.S. tourists coming to Maine for nine months of the year. (Not even the Massholes) and the hotels aren't even half full. Somebody like WOW Air, of even Icelandic would be flying planes that were closer empty than full for most of the year.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Fex180 wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

I think that's a little bit oversimplified. I wouldn't exactly call the Portland area poor and working-class. Southern Maine is very demographically similar to New Hampshire, so if we can discuss the idea of MHT having TATL flights then it can't be too absurd to imagine the same for PWM. I doubt any TATL service from Portland (or Manchester) would run daily, I think Jetport management has said a seasonal 1-2x weekly service would be a realistic place to start. clearly most of the demand would be driven by European visitors which is a strong growing Market in Maine.... But I will say that I see quite a few suitcases destined for terminal E every time I take the Concord Coach bus to Portland to Boston, so don't underestimate the demand from Mainers.

Let's say, hypothetically, there was just enough business and leisure O/D passengers between PWM and KEF to attract a flight. Business executives aren't going to fly on a likely LCC carrier such as Wow Air with no 1st class, and limited flits only 1-2 couple days per week with no other options if a fight gets canceled or delayed.

Leisure traveler's coming from Europe are mostly only coming during the June-September tourist season. There's not even a lot of domestic U.S. tourists coming to Maine for nine months of the year. (Not even the Massholes) and the hotels aren't even half full. Somebody like WOW Air, of even Icelandic would be flying planes that were closer empty than full for most of the year.

Seasonal would be the only way a TATL service would make sense, at least to start and see if demand can build. KEF is a goal for PWM management but not exactly #1 on their to-do list. I remember Zach Sunquist (assistant director of the Jetport) saying that nonstop to TPA and FLL or MIA was their #1 goal for new service, followed by a nonstop to a Texas city. Both of those are much more realistic in the near term than KEF, but KEF could happen within the next 5-10 years.

Obviously the most realistic use for an FIS facility and dedicated gate at PWM would be for flights to Canada (maybe luring AC or Porter for a daily to Toronto or Montreal)

AC has already tried flights to YYZ and YUL, twice, in the last 15 years. Most recently was to YYZ about six or seven years ago. Both times they used a Beech 1900 and they couldn’t even make that work.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

AC has already tried flights to YYZ and YUL, twice, in the last 15 years. Most recently was to YYZ about six or seven years ago. Both times they used a Beech 1900 and they couldn’t even make that work.

Same with MHT.

I used to go to Maine many many years ago for fishing and hunting, Norway and South Paris. Even though Portland was the largest of Maine's cities, it still was small compared to other New England cities. I am amazed at the level of air service that now exists today. I need to get up there again to see the city after a lapse of 40 or so years. Best trout fishing I ever had on the crooked river in Norway Maine.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Not sure how many people fly PWM to any destination in Europe on any given day, but I'm sure it's not enough to even come close to filling a 737?

I imagine it's incredible difficult to gauge the volume of people flying TATL from the Portland area and nearby towns because I suspect the majority flies out of BOS.
I can't imagine why anyone would even bother with a connecting flight unless the price is significantly cheaper. And if Intl fares out of PWM are anything like fares out of MHT, that never happens.

Portland is much larger than a typical city of around 70,000, especially when it comes to it's downtown core. It's land area of only 22 square miles will always limit the population count unless we annex South Portland which sadly will never happen. Portland's population peaked at 78,000 by the end of WWII and the transformation during the last 40 years is impressive and you will not find the same declining port city you once remembered.

airbazar wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Not sure how many people fly PWM to any destination in Europe on any given day, but I'm sure it's not enough to even come close to filling a 737?

I imagine it's incredible difficult to gauge the volume of people flying TATL from the Portland area and nearby towns because I suspect the majority flies out of BOS.
I can't imagine why anyone would even bother with a connecting flight unless the price is significantly cheaper. And if Intl fares out of PWM are anything like fares out of MHT, that never happens.

The last three times I’m gone to Berlin, I’ve flown DL or UA out of PWM via JFK or EWR to TXL. I’ve also used B6 and changed airlines at JFK when going international. Security is a breeze at PWM. And you can be on the ground in NYC before you would even had made it to New Hampshire if you were taking ground transport 120 miles to BOS. Then add another hour to check in.

Same goes for getting to West Coast. Flying out of PWM, you can be changing planes in DTW or ORD in the time it would have taken to get to Boston and check in for non-stop.

In my recent experiences, I’ve found international out of PWM to be comparable to BOS. Especially after factoring in the cost of getting to BOS.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

The last three times I’m gone to Berlin, I’ve flown DL or UA out of PWM via JFK or EWR to TXL. I’ve also used B6 and changed airlines at JFK when going international. Security is a breeze at PWM. And you can be on the ground in NYC before you would even had made it to New Hampshire if you were taking ground transport 120 miles to BOS. Then add another hour to check in.

Same goes for getting to West Coast. Flying out of PWM, you can be changing planes in DTW or ORD in the time it would have taken to get to Boston and check in for non-stop.

In my recent experiences, I’ve found international out of PWM to be comparable to BOS. Especially after factoring in the cost of getting to BOS.

Hopper, do you know of many other folks who fly one-stop from PWM versus drive to BOS? I would imagine the answer is yes, I believe I know of some people doing it, but to my knowledge most just drive to BOS. That being said, if the fares are comparable flying one-stop and you save time, I can very much see why it'd be worth it.

Portlander wrote:

Portland is much larger than a typical city of around 70,000, especially when it comes to it's downtown core. It's land area of only 22 square miles will always limit the population count unless we annex South Portland which sadly will never happen. Portland's population peaked at 78,000 by the end of WWII and the transformation during the last 40 years is impressive and you will not find the same declining port city you once remembered.

I’ve spent 36 of 38 years here. There’s 65,000 in Portland. The same as it was 40 years ago. The only thing that changed is that Portland gentrified and Maine people can’t afford to live there anymore. Nobody comes aside from May-Sept.The Port is hardly a working port these days. Fishing is dead for the most part aside from lobstering. There’s a small tourist area of downtown, but that’s only a small part of Portland The economy is far from thriving here. And, Maine is one if the least business friendly states. The limited business and leisure traveler are well served.

Mainers like to think it as a city, but it’s really just a large town. Go 10 miles or less and you’re in the woods. Look down at it from 35,000 feet and it’s just a peninsula surrounded by woods.

33lspotter wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

The last three times I’m gone to Berlin, I’ve flown DL or UA out of PWM via JFK or EWR to TXL. I’ve also used B6 and changed airlines at JFK when going international. Security is a breeze at PWM. And you can be on the ground in NYC before you would even had made it to New Hampshire if you were taking ground transport 120 miles to BOS. Then add another hour to check in.

Same goes for getting to West Coast. Flying out of PWM, you can be changing planes in DTW or ORD in the time it would have taken to get to Boston and check in for non-stop.

In my recent experiences, I’ve found international out of PWM to be comparable to BOS. Especially after factoring in the cost of getting to BOS.

Hopper, do you know of many other folks who fly one-stop from PWM versus drive to BOS? I would imagine the answer is yes, I believe I know of some people doing it, but to my knowledge most just drive to BOS. That being said, if the fares are comparable flying one-stop and you save time, I can very much see why it'd be worth it.

Yeah, most of the people you see checking in at PWM are connecting to somewhere. if you’re going to park in BOS, your cheap ticket is definitely going to be more than PWM.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

The last three times I’m gone to Berlin, I’ve flown DL or UA out of PWM via JFK or EWR to TXL. I’ve also used B6 and changed airlines at JFK when going international. Security is a breeze at PWM. And you can be on the ground in NYC before you would even had made it to New Hampshire if you were taking ground transport 120 miles to BOS. Then add another hour to check in.

Or you could be booked via EWR on the way to EDI and have the flight delayed because of storms and be sent to FRA on LH and then to EDI and arrived 24 hours after leaving your home. That was my wife's experience last night thanks to the sh*t show that are the NYC airports when a storm rolls in. Her checked bag is not expected to arrive until Monday.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Yeah, most of the people you see checking in at PWM are connecting to somewhere. if you’re going to park in BOS, your cheap ticket is definitely going to be more than PWM.

Indeed but that's not what we;re discussing here.
No one is implying no one is connecting out of PWM. I'm sure plenty do on domestic flights.
It's connections for TATL flights that we're discussing. TXL is different because there are not flight to TXL out of BOS. But I guess if you look at the big destinations such as DUB/LON/PAR my guess is most people are flying out of BOS. That's why we can't really gauge how many people from Portland travel to Europe.
In addition, there's a reason why there are 2 bus companies operating between Maine/NH and Logan airport.
The parking and traffic to Logan is greatly exaggerated on this forum.
I park at PreFlight. It's $130/week. PWM charges $84/week. It's not a relevant difference.
The traffic to get to BOS in the evening for a TATL departure is light. Even in the morning is not that bad. I-95 to Rt-1 is nothing like I-93 and certainly not like the Southeast Expressway.

^ You could have considered PVD-EDI nonstop on D8.

PVD757 wrote:

^ You could have considered PVD-EDI nonstop on D8.

Ah! I did tell her about it and she looked at me as if I had 3 heads.

I don't have any numbers ,but this summer and 2018 is suppose to be a record breaking number of passengers for BTV.

The airport seems so perfect for frontier with them now starting NY State services more. The competition is right across in Plattsburgh with allegiant and spirit offerings.

BTV is funny on the border situation it's part of this thread and also pretty relavant in the NY State thread too. More Giants fans in Burlington than Patriots fans lol it's a border town.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Yeah, most of the people you see checking in at PWM are connecting to somewhere. if you’re going to park in BOS, your cheap ticket is definitely going to be more than PWM.

I meant for TATL flights. I would imagine most PWM folks flying domestically are connecting somewhere.

airbazar wrote:

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

The last three times I’m gone to Berlin, I’ve flown DL or UA out of PWM via JFK or EWR to TXL. I’ve also used B6 and changed airlines at JFK when going international. Security is a breeze at PWM. And you can be on the ground in NYC before you would even had made it to New Hampshire if you were taking ground transport 120 miles to BOS. Then add another hour to check in.

Or you could be booked via EWR on the way to EDI and have the flight delayed because of storms and be sent to FRA on LH and then to EDI and arrived 24 hours after leaving your home. That was my wife's experience last night thanks to the sh*t show that are the NYC airports when a storm rolls in. Her checked bag is not expected to arrive until Monday.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

Yeah, most of the people you see checking in at PWM are connecting to somewhere. if you’re going to park in BOS, your cheap ticket is definitely going to be more than PWM.

Indeed but that's not what we;re discussing here.
No one is implying no one is connecting out of PWM. I'm sure plenty do on domestic flights.
It's connections for TATL flights that we're discussing. TXL is different because there are not flight to TXL out of BOS. But I guess if you look at the big destinations such as DUB/LON/PAR my guess is most people are flying out of BOS. That's why we can't really gauge how many people from Portland travel to Europe.
In addition, there's a reason why there are 2 bus companies operating between Maine/NH and Logan airport.
The parking and traffic to Logan is greatly exaggerated on this forum.
I park at PreFlight. It's $130/week. PWM charges $84/week. It's not a relevant difference.
The traffic to get to BOS in the evening for a TATL departure is light. Even in the morning is not that bad. I-95 to Rt-1 is nothing like I-93 and certainly not like the Southeast Expressway.

If people want to drive 2+ hours to Logan, dealing woth jerkoff Boston drivers, and then spend another hour plus checking in and dealing with rude and nasty Boston TSA, and long security lines during peak hours, than that's their choice. Not sure why anybody drives and then pays to park when you can take the bus for $50 roundtrip to BOS curbside.

I was using NYC as an example for my flights because I go to Berlin. However, you can make connections to the other large European cities flying from PWM via PHL, IAD, DTW, and perhaps even CLT, and you'd still be on your connecting flight quicker than if you took ground transport to BOS and boarded there.


quote="airbazar"]

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

The last three times I’m gone to Berlin, I’ve flown DL or UA out of PWM via JFK or EWR to TXL. I’ve also used B6 and changed airlines at JFK when going international. Security is a breeze at PWM. And you can be on the ground in NYC before you would even had made it to New Hampshire if you were taking ground transport 120 miles to BOS. Then add another hour to check in.

Or you could be booked via EWR on the way to EDI and have the flight delayed because of storms and be sent to FRA on LH and then to EDI and arrived 24 hours after leaving your home. That was my wife's experience last night thanks to the sh*t show that are the NYC airports when a storm rolls in. Her checked bag is not expected to arrive until Monday..[/quote]

To be fair, she could have had a weather delay at any major airport. Crap happens sometimes when you fly. She could always take a ship or swim.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

If people want to drive 2+ hours to Logan, dealing woth jerkoff Boston drivers, and then spend another hour plus checking in and dealing with rude and nasty Boston TSA, and long security lines during peak hours, than that's their choice. Not sure why anybody drives and then pays to park when you can take the bus for $50 roundtrip to BOS curbside.

Most people don't think like that. For most Americans, driving is second nature to them. Flying is not. You're an airline enthusiast at the very least. You probably get a kick out of visiting other airports and being on a plane. Most people are not like that. Last time I flew to MUC from BOS, there was a couple standing behind me who had driven from Burlington, VT. They were going to Oktoberfest. But LH is not cheap. I know they were paying a lot more to fly non-stop BOS-MUC. It happens a lot more than you think. Even PWM's Assistant Director acknowledges that when she says: “We are definitely seeing a shift to Mainers coming back and using the jetport instead of driving down to Boston and Manchester.”
https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/27/ ... er-record/

Another thing you have to look at is, for many years PWM did not have the options you have today. So people became accustomed to driving to BOS and MHT like the article says. And as for the bus, I have take the bus myself. It works when I travel alone but when you're paying $50x2 then the cost advantage is gone against the flexibility of your own car. I don't want to arrive from a long haul flight and have to wait an hour or more for the next bus. I some times take the Logan Express out of Woburn when I travel alone because the Boston Express bus that goes down I-93 goes to Boston first and that is a waste of time and an inconvenience.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:

To be fair, she could have had a weather delay at any major airport. Crap happens sometimes when you fly. She could always take a ship or swim.

Except NYC afternoon storms are very frequent in the Summer. A better option would have been one of the many flights to Europe and connect there, like I told her but since I'm a man I'm obviously inherently wrong I'm going to milk this "I told you so" as long as I can