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SheikhDjibouti
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Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:30 pm

It seems as if we are fighting a losing battle. The word "aircrafts" is being used more & more, including here on a.net where you would hope most of us knew better.

Today's search found 29617 matches here on a.net, including 8 so far this morning.

To be fair, a number of these cases are grammatical errors where an apostrophe is missing.
e.g. "The tube itself is generally under 20% of the aircrafts weight"
The weight pertaining to an aircraft is of course the aircraft's weight. I can forgive that particular error, especially from non-English speakers.

But an increasing number of posters are using aircrafts as a device to convey the meaning that there is more than one aircraft. If this trend continues, aircrafts will become de facto the normal English term. Do we fight it, or embrace it? Perhaps the situation is not helped because the automatic spelling correction here fails to highlight this error.

Input from non-English speaking members here is especially welcome. :D

p.s. I acknowledge this discussion is borderline non-aviation already; anybody expanding this thread to include a diatribe on modern English will make the mods decision easier.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Classa64
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:55 pm

" Look at all those aircraft parked out there"
" I see a lot of aircraft or aircraft's over there"
" That aircraft has a bent wing"
" That aircraft's wing is bent"

That's the way I personally used those words it just feel right, Am I wrong or is it how its used in a sentence... thanks to spell check I tell you for me anyway.

That's from a Canadian Speaking me.
:)
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
mmo
Posts: 1811
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:27 pm

Classa64 wrote:
" Look at all those aircraft parked out there"
" I see a lot of aircraft or aircraft's over there"
" That aircraft has a bent wing"
" That aircraft's wing is bent"

That's the way I personally used those words it just feel right, Am I wrong or is it how its used in a sentence... thanks to spell check I tell you for me anyway.

That's from a Canadian Speaking me.
:)


You are using the possessive form of aircraft when you use the 's. So, the second sentence is grammatically incorrect. the last sentence is correct since it is referring to that specific aircraft's wings.....You are using the possessive form.

What I think is wrong, is when someone says there were 3 aircrafts of final. To me, that is incorrect. It is along the lines of math vs. maths.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
71Zulu
Posts: 1881
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:42 am

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:43 pm

Classa64 wrote:
" Look at all those aircraft parked out there"
" I see a lot of aircraft or aircraft's over there"
" That aircraft has a bent wing"
" That aircraft's wing is bent"

That's the way I personally used those words it just feel right, Am I wrong or is it how its used in a sentence... thanks to spell check I tell you for me anyway.

That's from a Canadian Speaking me.
:)

2nd one is wrong, I agree with the others.

This is for me in the USA, other countries could be different but aircrafts just sounds wrong. Also don't like "Delta are buying....", that sounds wrong too but that's for another day.




Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 
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Classa64
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:00 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

But an increasing number of posters are using aircrafts as a device to convey the meaning that there is more than one aircraft.

mmo wrote:
You are using the possessive form of aircraft when you use the 's


So adding the 'S' in any case is not indicating plural, I am genuinely curious as my grammar is bad.

I don't think that I have heard of anyone saying there are 3 aircraf's on final its always been aircraft, interesting.

C.
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1530
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:23 pm

So, basically, it means that many fishes will not be transported by many aicrafts, isn’t it? :duck:
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
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CrimsonNL
Posts: 2092
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Fight it! It's one aircraft, 2 aircraft, 500 aircraft! Drop the S!

Martijn

PS: On the same note, it's 1 PAP and 2 PAX, not 1 PAX
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 19434
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:35 pm

Classa64 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:

But an increasing number of posters are using aircrafts as a device to convey the meaning that there is more than one aircraft.

mmo wrote:
You are using the possessive form of aircraft when you use the 's


So adding the 'S' in any case is not indicating plural, I am genuinely curious as my grammar is bad.

I don't think that I have heard of anyone saying there are 3 aircraf's on final its always been aircraft, interesting.

C.


Adding "s" indicates plural for most English words, but not all. These are known as "irregular plurals". Other examples are "sheep" and "trout". Another form of the irregular plural is words that change entirely, such as "knife" into "knives, "woman" into "women" and "tooth" into "teeth".

Incorrect use of the apostrophe is probably the most common mistake in English. The apostrophe indicates the possessive. "A person's car" means the car of that person while "persons" is the plural of "person". Of course, this being English there is an exception: "Its" is the possessive of "it" but is written without an apostrophe, while "it's" is a contraction of "it is".

Confused yet? ;) English has a remarkable number of irregularities. The regular invasions of the British Isles plus all the trade, Empire and whatnot meant a lot of exerted linguistic influences.

I highly recommend The Grammarly browser add-on and the Grammarly smartphone keyboard. They is really good at picking up these little details and making you understand the correct and incorrect forms.. https://support.grammarly.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000091552-Install-the-free-Grammarly-Spelling-and-Grammar-Checker-Extension
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Canuck600
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:43 pm

Saying a aircraft is on finals instead of final approach drives me batty too.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2354
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:59 am

Canuck600 wrote:
Saying a aircraft is on finals instead of final approach drives me batty too.


I agree, an aircraft is on final (app)
those aircraft are on final too
I see a hundred aircraft on the ramp but the purple and red one is my aircraft.
My aircraft's tire needs changing.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 19434
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:51 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Classa64 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:

But an increasing number of posters are using aircrafts as a device to convey the meaning that there is more than one aircraft.

mmo wrote:
You are using the possessive form of aircraft when you use the 's


So adding the 'S' in any case is not indicating plural, I am genuinely curious as my grammar is bad.

I don't think that I have heard of anyone saying there are 3 aircraf's on final its always been aircraft, interesting.

C.


Adding "s" indicates plural for most English words, but not all. These are known as "irregular plurals". Other examples are "sheep" and "trout". Another form of the irregular plural is words that change entirely, such as "knife" into "knives, "woman" into "women" and "tooth" into "teeth".

Incorrect use of the apostrophe is probably the most common mistake in English. The apostrophe indicates the possessive. "A person's car" means the car of that person while "persons" is the plural of "person". Of course, this being English there is an exception: "Its" is the possessive of "it" but is written without an apostrophe, while "it's" is a contraction of "it is".

Confused yet? ;) English has a remarkable number of irregularities. The regular invasions of the British Isles plus all the trade, Empire and whatnot meant a lot of exerted linguistic influences.

I highly recommend The Grammarly browser add-on and the Grammarly smartphone keyboard. They is really good at picking up these little details and making you understand the correct and incorrect forms.. https://support.grammarly.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000091552-Install-the-free-Grammarly-Spelling-and-Grammar-Checker-Extension


I love that I made a glaring grammatical error in a post about grammar. This is why I should alway re-read. :oops: :banghead:
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
YIMBY
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:43 am

I think we should re-english the grammar, vocabulary and othography and create a New English Option.

This includes:
1) regularized plurals; aircrafts, fishes, mans, womans, ...
2) regular verbs: I be, thou be, ze be, we be, you be, they be
3) regular spelling: phone -> foun etc,
 
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Faro
Posts: 1944
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:08 am

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:58 am

Starlionblue wrote:
I love that I made a glaring grammatical error in a post about grammar. This is why I should alway re-read. :oops: :banghead:



A glaring grammatical error for a primary school teacher yes...but not for a linguist...

All languages evolve and "grammar" is a very different term for linguists for whom it is a descriptive and not normative concept...

So don't be surprised if one day aircrafts, cannons and fishes become "acceptable" terms...

As one linguist puts it, language without meaning is meaningless...sematics is the important thing...if one conveys the proper meaning with the word 'aircrafts', that is fine by me...spelling and syntax are secondary considerations...


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
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zeke
Posts: 14057
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:06 am

CosmicCruiser wrote:
My aircraft's tire needs changing.


Or even the tyre.

Wines, fruits, aircrafts.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Topic Author
Posts: 1834
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:30 am

What is it about the word "aircraft" that makes it unique (within the aviation vocabulary)?

Airplane or aeroplane take a standard plural; airplanes, aeroplanes, or just planes.
Similarly helicopters, gliders, hot air balloons.

So is it the word "craft" that is the problem?
But that also takes a regular plural; I am skilled in a number of different crafts and am a member of the Arts & Crafts Society.

Indeed, we talk about a skilled artisan being a craftsman, not a craftman.

So what exactly is it about aircraft that makes it inherently plural?
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Airstud
Posts: 4717
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2000 11:57 am

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:13 pm

"Kine" is the only plural-form noun in the English language that has zero letters in common with its singular form.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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adanhamidu
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:30 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
It seems as if we are fighting a losing battle. The word "aircrafts" is being used more & more, including here on a.net where you would hope most of us knew better.

Today's search found 29617 matches here on a.net, including 8 so far this morning.

To be fair, a number of these cases are grammatical errors where an apostrophe is missing.
e.g. "The tube itself is generally under 20% of the aircrafts weight"
The weight pertaining to an aircraft is of course the aircraft's weight. I can forgive that particular error, especially from non-English speakers.

But an increasing number of posters are using aircrafts as a device to convey the meaning that there is more than one aircraft. If this trend continues, aircrafts will become de facto the normal English term. Do we fight it, or embrace it? Perhaps the situation is not helped because the automatic spelling correction here fails to highlight this error.

Input from non-English speaking members here is especially welcome. :D

p.s. I acknowledge this discussion is borderline non-aviation already; anybody expanding this thread to include a diatribe on modern English will make the mods decision easier.
I'm wondering what percentage of these words were unintentional keyboard (especially Gboard for Android) typos.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5032
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Aircraft or Aircrafts?

Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:56 pm

YIMBY wrote:
I think we should re-english the grammar, vocabulary and othography and create a New English Option.

This includes:
1) regularized plurals; aircrafts, fishes, mans, womans, ...
2) regular verbs: I be, thou be, ze be, we be, you be, they be
3) regular spelling: phone -> foun etc,

On that note: an oldie but a goodie:

"The European Commission has announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which was the other contender. Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had room for improvement and has therefore accepted a five-year phasing in of "Euro-English".
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make sivil servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k", Which should klear up some konfusion and allow one key less on keyboards.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f", making words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.
In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e" is disgrasful.
By the fourth yer, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".
During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and everivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. ZE DREM VIL FINALI COM TRU!
Herr Schmidt"

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