lightsaber wrote:

I'm very curious as to the durability of aircraft. So I ask what is the highest flight cycle and hour for the narrowbody fleet?

I found a 2016 reference noting 226 A320s had exceeded the old limit of 60,000 flight hours (FH).
Back then MSN0069 has the highest cycles (over 51,000) while MSN0068 had the most hours (over 81,000).

http://www.mromanagement.com/feature/in ... asda76ofv3

It is my understanding that ESG2 (ultimate life to 90,000 cycles, 180,000 FH) was cancelled.
The first A320s to reach the ESG1 limits were expected a year ago to next year (depends on which source, I believe the above link is more accurate).


I found a presentation that gives details of the A320 life:
First airframe hit 60,000 FH in 2007
http://travelsdocbox.com/Air_Travel/662 ... pdate.html

What is the 737 fleet leader?
We've had topics before on longest life.
HA N669HA DC-9 95k,132 cycles.
viewtopic.php?t=748823

Highest usage 737 I could find was N694SW, a 1985 737-300 that WN retired in June 2016, which might have the cycle record.

In February 2016, it had 97,811 hours and 67,813 cycles.
Note, per this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=1348429

To my knowledge, the 85,000 cycles of a 737 that requires a major repair (LOV 100k cycles) has never been exceeded. I'm looking for evidence any plane reached 85,000 cycles limit (or better, exceeded).

I found a bunch of DL MD-80s with 80k hours and 60k cycles by putting in registrations in here: http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx (don't put in the N, for N registered aircraft only) e.g., 906DL for N906DL.
FWIW, I found DL MD-90s with less than 25k cycles!
Lots of DL 717s at 30k cycles in DLs fleet and 50k hours...

Alas, I do not know how to find data on scrapped frames. I tried looking up scrapped WN 737s and the data base was blank (as it should be).

Lightsaber

1989worstyear wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

I'm very curious as to the durability of aircraft. So I ask what is the highest flight cycle and hour for the narrowbody fleet?

I found a 2016 reference noting 226 A320s had exceeded the old limit of 60,000 flight hours (FH).
Back then MSN0069 has the highest cycles (over 51,000) while MSN0068 had the most hours (over 81,000).

http://www.mromanagement.com/feature/in ... asda76ofv3

It is my understanding that ESG2 (ultimate life to 90,000 cycles, 180,000 FH) was cancelled.
The first A320s to reach the ESG1 limits were expected a year ago to next year (depends on which source, I believe the above link is more accurate).


I found a presentation that gives details of the A320 life:
First airframe hit 60,000 FH in 2007
http://travelsdocbox.com/Air_Travel/662 ... pdate.html

What is the 737 fleet leader?
We've had topics before on longest life.
HA N669HA DC-9 95k,132 cycles.
viewtopic.php?t=748823

Highest usage 737 I could find was N694SW, a 1985 737-300 that WN retired in June 2016, which might have the cycle record.

In February 2016, it had 97,811 hours and 67,813 cycles.
Note, per this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=1348429

To my knowledge, the 85,000 cycles of a 737 that requires a major repair (LOV 100k cycles) has never been exceeded. I'm looking for evidence any plane reached 85,000 cycles limit (or better, exceeded).

I found a bunch of DL MD-80s with 80k hours and 60k cycles by putting in registrations in here: http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx (don't put in the N, for N registered aircraft only) e.g., 906DL for N906DL.
FWIW, I found DL MD-90s with less than 25k cycles!
Lots of DL 717s at 30k cycles in DLs fleet and 50k hours...

Alas, I do not know how to find data on scrapped frames. I tried looking up scrapped WN 737s and the data base was blank (as it should be).

Lightsaber

Sure blows a hole (no pun intended) in that stupid notion from some that the A320 is somehow "flimsy".

At the same time, it proves how awful the 90s and 2000's were for commercial aviation, when a 29 year old aircraft is economically competitive with one rolling off the line today.

lightsaber wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I’d think WN would have the record. Those planes don’t sit on the ground long before they’re off again.

Please see above. WestJet beat them. Probably the lack of WN back of the clock flying?

Spacepope wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I’d think WN would have the record. Those planes don’t sit on the ground long before they’re off again.

Please see above. WestJet beat them. Probably the lack of WN back of the clock flying?

A totally silly question now a sign they have all been scrapped, but was the life extension mod available to the A320-100?

Please do more threads like this!

HI442ct wrote:

They don't make planes like they used to. Actually says a lot about how older planes were built, if they are still flying economically and safely today.

qblue wrote:

Boeing 737 - MSN 20807 - C-GUWJ It was not just WestJet Airlines that racked up the cycles in her 28 year service. They had her for only 3 years. She was with Britannia for for 20 with lots of short hops in Europe. Sabre which became XL had her for 2.

15/02/1974 Britannia Airways G-BAZH
27/03/1994 Ambassador G-BAZH
15/12/1994 Sabre Airways G-SBEB
31/01/1997 Peach Air G-SBEB
16/11/1998 FSB N107TR
04/06/1999 WestJet Airlines C-GUWJ
19/03/2002 WestJet Airlines C-GUWJ

1989worstyear wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

I'm very curious as to the durability of aircraft. So I ask what is the highest flight cycle and hour for the narrowbody fleet?

I found a 2016 reference noting 226 A320s had exceeded the old limit of 60,000 flight hours (FH).
Back then MSN0069 has the highest cycles (over 51,000) while MSN0068 had the most hours (over 81,000).

http://www.mromanagement.com/feature/in ... asda76ofv3

It is my understanding that ESG2 (ultimate life to 90,000 cycles, 180,000 FH) was cancelled.
The first A320s to reach the ESG1 limits were expected a year ago to next year (depends on which source, I believe the above link is more accurate).


I found a presentation that gives details of the A320 life:
First airframe hit 60,000 FH in 2007
http://travelsdocbox.com/Air_Travel/662 ... pdate.html

What is the 737 fleet leader?
We've had topics before on longest life.
HA N669HA DC-9 95k,132 cycles.
viewtopic.php?t=748823

Highest usage 737 I could find was N694SW, a 1985 737-300 that WN retired in June 2016, which might have the cycle record.

In February 2016, it had 97,811 hours and 67,813 cycles.
Note, per this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=1348429

To my knowledge, the 85,000 cycles of a 737 that requires a major repair (LOV 100k cycles) has never been exceeded. I'm looking for evidence any plane reached 85,000 cycles limit (or better, exceeded).

I found a bunch of DL MD-80s with 80k hours and 60k cycles by putting in registrations in here: http://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx (don't put in the N, for N registered aircraft only) e.g., 906DL for N906DL.
FWIW, I found DL MD-90s with less than 25k cycles!
Lots of DL 717s at 30k cycles in DLs fleet and 50k hours...

Alas, I do not know how to find data on scrapped frames. I tried looking up scrapped WN 737s and the data base was blank (as it should be).

Lightsaber

Sure blows a hole (no pun intended) in that stupid notion from some that the A320 is somehow "flimsy".

At the same time, it proves how awful the 90s and 2000's were for commercial aviation, when a 29 year old aircraft is economically competitive with one rolling off the line today.

wrongwayup wrote:

In-service 737 fleet leaders:
737 hours leader: 81,097 FH. Magnicharters 737-200 MSN 22652 XA-MAD
737 cycles leader: 76,906 FC. Air North 737-200 MSN 23122 C-GANV

All-time 737 fleet leaders:
737 hours leader: 102,227 FH. WestJet 737-200 MSN 20807 C-GUWJ
737 cycles leader: 97,326 FC. WestJet 737-200 MSN 21117 C-GWJU

In-service A320 fleet leaders (both are still in service):
A320 hours leader: 87,011 FH. Air Canada A320 MSN 68 C-FDQV
A320 cycles leader: 53,997 FC. Lufthansa A320 MSN 72 D-AIPD

Seems the Canadians know a thing or two about keeping high utilization airplanes in the air. All data from Ascend.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

MSN 55 (N624AW, ex-N904BN) was retired at about 88,000 hours by American Airlines. This was the last ex-Braniff-II A320 in service.

As for the Dreamliner's limit of validity...well, that's what having a carbon composite frame will do.

Spacepope wrote:

Please do more threads like this!

lightsaber wrote:

bigjku wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

MSN 55 (N624AW, ex-N904BN) was retired at about 88,000 hours by American Airlines. This was the last ex-Braniff-II A320 in service.

As for the Dreamliner's limit of validity...well, that's what having a carbon composite frame will do.

Curious how that compares to other widebody aircraft?

Also anyone want to take a flyer on what it might mean if you do a CFRP airframe for a narrowbody market?

Here is the Boeing LOV for passenger frames (freighters often are good for fewer cycles):
DC-10 160k FH, 60k FC
744: 165k FH, 35k FC
MD-11: 150k FH, 40k FC
767: 150k FH, 60k FC
777: 160k FH, 60k FC

vs. 787: 200k FH, 66k FC

So the 787 is good for 25% more flight hours (FH), but only 10% more flight cycles (FC).

For a narrowbody, one would expect similar.

At this time, Bombardier claims 8,500 hours for C-checks. so 25,500 for heavy maintenance intervals or 76,500 FH design life.
I fully expect that to be increased:
https://commercialaircraft.bombardier.c ... omics.html

Just to be clear, aircraft certification requires a fully heavy maintenance interval every 1/3rd of design life and a C-check at 1/9th design life.
So while this is OK flight hours for CFRP wing, I won't say I'm impressed.

Lightsaber

Jetsouth wrote:

And those that question the safety of such old jets, to the best of my knowledge, there never has been a breakup in flight of any of these old/high use planes simply because of their age or heavy use, at least in North America and Europe.

Jetsouth wrote:

And those that question the safety of such old jets, to the best of my knowledge, there never has been a breakup in flight of any of these old/high use planes simply because of their age or heavy use, at least in North America and Europe.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

I also have to ask another question---why aren't older A320s and A321-200s now seen as candidates for freighter conversions, which would likely bump up values, especially those below 40,000 FCs/60,000 FHs? (When FedEx went about chasing down 757s for freighter conversions, they were paying a premium to whoever was selling.)The Boeing 737-800BCF program has already had deliveries, why no A320/321 P2F yet? Does the ability to accept a ULD make these frames too valuable for passenger service?

Another interesting observation might be older A320s of North American operators like Air Canada and to a lesser extent, JetBlue. Air Canada has some A320s that are pushing 30 years old, and JetBlue has been buying its A320s as leases expire...could JetBlue especially be inclined to sell its older, paid-off A320s to a freight forwarder for freighter conversion with A321s as replacements?

wrongwayup wrote:

In-service 737 fleet leaders:
737 hours leader: 81,097 FH. Magnicharters 737-200 MSN 22652 XA-MAD
737 cycles leader: 76,906 FC. Air North 737-200 MSN 23122 C-GANV

All-time 737 fleet leaders:
737 hours leader: 102,227 FH. WestJet 737-200 MSN 20807 C-GUWJ
737 cycles leader: 97,326 FC. WestJet 737-200 MSN 21117 C-GWJU

In-service A320 fleet leaders (both are still in service):
A320 hours leader: 87,011 FH. Air Canada A320 MSN 68 C-FDQV
A320 cycles leader: 53,997 FC. Lufthansa A320 MSN 72 D-AIPD

Seems the Canadians know a thing or two about keeping high utilization airplanes in the air. All data from Ascend.

monomojo wrote:

Per the Boeing article lightsaber posted in an earlier thread, Boeing is setting the 787 limit at 66,000 cycles and 200,000(!) hours. That's a 45 year service life at 12 hours per day.