FSDan
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DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:30 pm

It has been several years since the last time I was able to make a series of these threads (summer 2014 is the last set of threads I could find), but they always seemed to be of interest to people on here.

I have gone through the online schedules of AA, DL, and UA, and have tallied up departures by aircraft type for each hub in order to get a picture of how each airline is currently deploying their fleet across their network. This subject has always fascinated me, so the hours of going through schedules are totally worth it :). Anyway, this time around I picked a Monday in the middle of the summer (July 23, 2018, to be exact) and collected schedule data from the same day for all three airlines so that comparisons can be made. It is also interesting to see how things have changed over just a few years - here is a link to the DL thread from 2014 for reference: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=572589&hilit=hub+%26+aircraft+type

A few notes/disclaimers:
    *This data was collected by hand, so it's possible there are a few inaccuracies. However, I have a high level of confidence in the data.
    *Schedules are always subject to change, so the totals from when I collected data may already have changed slightly, and may change further in the coming weeks.
    *As we know, the term "hub" is always unavoidably subjective. For the purpose of these threads, I'm classifying a "hub" as a station that has 100+ departures serving 30+ destinations.
    *I don't have plans to do this for any other airline's network this summer - if someone would like to make a thread like this for AS, AC, etc., wonderful! Please use 7/23/2018 as the schedule date for a fair comparison.
    *For simplicity's sake, I decided not to split out different subfleets in the tallies. International 757-200s will be aggregated with domestic 757-200s, and so on and so forth. I'm also using airline-agnostic aircraft codes, so if a given airline classifies their 737-700s as "73W" (looking at you, DL), the data here will still show "73G" instead.

Enjoy!


ATL

CR2: 119
CR7: 46
CR9: 43
717: 115
M88: 293
M90: 50
319: 5
320: 53
321: 85
73G: 26
738: 25
739: 80
752: 75
753: 8
763: 8
764: 11
332: 1
333: 9
77L: 4
359: 1

Total = 1057
80.3 % mainline


DTW

CR2: 93
CR7: 64
CR9: 90
E70: 6
E75: 4
717: 44
M90: 21
319: 21
320: 14
321: 11
738: 12
739: 32
752: 20
753: 7
763: 3
332: 2
333: 4
359: 5

Total = 453
43.3 % mainline


MSP

CR2: 90
CR7: 38
CR9: 75
717: 43
M90: 48
319: 31
320: 25
321: 16
738: 9
739: 31
752: 28
753: 6
763: 2
333: 3
772: 2

Total = 447
54.6 % mainline


LGA

CR2: 20
CR7: 7
CR9: 80
E70: 35
E75: 56
717: 16
319: 22
320: 22
321: 14
738: 2
739: 1

Total = 275
28.0 % mainline


SLC

CR2: 41
CR7: 14
CR9: 16
E75: 53
717: 15
M90: 11
319: 15
320: 14
321: 18
738: 39
739: 25
752: 7
763: 4

Total = 272
54.4 % mainline


JFK

CR2: 14
CR9: 67
E70: 4
E75: 8
717: 4
319: 12
320: 19
321: 3
738: 9
739: 30
752: 30
763: 10
764: 9
332: 5
333: 8

Total = 232
59.9 % mainline


SEA

E75: 67
717: 16
319: 5
738: 28
739: 23
752: 20
753: 7
763: 5
333: 1
772: 2

Total = 174
61.5 % mainline


LAX

E75: 38
717: 13
319: 10
321: 5
738: 41
739: 16
752: 26
753: 8
763: 5
764: 3
332: 1
772: 1
77L: 2
359: 1

Total = 170
77.6 % mainline


BOS

CR7: 8
CR9: 21
E70: 6
E75: 15
717: 7
M90: 1
319: 6
320: 10
321: 16
738: 8
739: 5
752: 5
763: 3
333: 1

Total = 112
55.4 % mainline
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FSDan
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:34 pm

This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:43 pm

The most striking thing about Delta’s current schedule is how much regional jet flying happens at DTW, and how much of it is on 50-seaters. It’s less pronounced than four years ago, but it’s still a huge portion.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:53 pm

Sad to see the mighty 757 almost extinct in SLC.
 
lowfareair
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:57 pm

The crazy thing to me about ATL is not just the number of flights, but how it can do such a high %age as mainline. To put it in perspective, distant 2nd DTW (well under half the number of flights to ATL) still has 25% more DL Connection flights than ATL.
 
kaitak744
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:14 pm

FSDan wrote:
LAX

E75: 38
717: 13
319: 10
321: 5
738: 41
739: 16
752: 26
753: 8
763: 5
764: 3
332: 1
772: 1
77L: 2
359: 1


As for the long-haul wide-bodies:

HND - 777-200ER
SYD - 777-200LR
CDG / AMS - 777-200LR
PVG - A350-900

Are they ending the ATL-LAX 777-200LR flight?
There was also a JFK-LAX A330-300 flight. Is that no longer?
Where is that A330-200 going?
 
N766UA
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:17 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
The crazy thing to me about ATL is not just the number of flights, but how it can do such a high %age as mainline. To put it in perspective, distant 2nd DTW (well under half the number of flights to ATL) still has 25% more DL Connection flights than ATL.


And the number of CRJ's in Atlanta alone, with ~200 flights a day, would constitute a hub at any other airport in the country, including elsewhere in DL's system. But in ATL, it doesn't even rate.
 
ty97
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:29 pm

Very interesting threads, thanks!

I hadn't realize that the MD-88s were not fully consolidated at ATL. I knew they were pulled from LGA but thought they still flowed through other hubs some. Apparently I thought wrong!
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:45 pm

Three of the 763s at SLC go to AMS, CDG, and LHR. Where does the fourth go?

SLC has gotten the A330 at times too, but lately the Europe flights have been all 767s.
 
ty97
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:54 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Three of the 763s at SLC go to AMS, CDG, and LHR. Where does the fourth go?


HNL
 
FSDan
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:05 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
The most striking thing about Delta’s current schedule is how much regional jet flying happens at DTW, and how much of it is on 50-seaters. It’s less pronounced than four years ago, but it’s still a huge portion.


Yeah, DTW is still more regional-heavy than other DL hubs (likely in large part due to the vast number of small markets that are within a 1.5-hour flight of DTW). However, it's great to see the number of 50-seaters fall below 100 for the first time in who-knows-how-long, with corresponding increases in the number of mainline and large-RJ flights. While departures are down, seating capacity is actually up something like 2-3%.
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FSDan
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:09 pm

kaitak744 wrote:
Are they ending the ATL-LAX 777-200LR flight?
There was also a JFK-LAX A330-300 flight. Is that no longer?
Where is that A330-200 going?


For now, the 77Ls are rotated between ATL and LAX via AMS. ATL-LAX has 2x daily 763s (domestic config), so there are still widebodies on the route. In the Fall the LAX-Europe routes move to the 333, and I believe LAX-ATL gets a 77L rotation back in order to bridge aircraft between ATL and LAX-SYD.

The JFK-LAX 333 flight operated during the winter season in order to bridge aircraft between LAX-HND and JFK. LAX-HND is moving back to the 777-200ER this summer, so there's no need for the 333 rotation. The A330-200 flight is on LAX-JFK (RON at LAX), so there's still an A330 on the route. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 333 return to JFK-LAX after the summer season.
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MIflyer12
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:43 pm

FSDan wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
The most striking thing about Delta’s current schedule is how much regional jet flying happens at DTW, and how much of it is on 50-seaters. It’s less pronounced than four years ago, but it’s still a huge portion.


Yeah, DTW is still more regional-heavy than other DL hubs (likely in large part due to the vast number of small markets that are within a 1.5-hour flight of DTW). However, it's great to see the number of 50-seaters fall below 100 for the first time in who-knows-how-long, with corresponding increases in the number of mainline and large-RJ flights. While departures are down, seating capacity is actually up something like 2-3%.


I think if FSDan listed the destinations and frequencies of those 93 CR2 flights (hint!) we would see that they are not all going to be upgauged to CR9/E75. In a few instances it's going to be CR2 or nothing - at the loss of some destinations from the network entirely. DTW-CIU (Sault Ste Marie, pop 38K for the 2,698 sq mile micropolitan statistical area) was a Saab in the NW days. IMHO, no way that sees a daily 76-seater on a year-round basis.
 
727LOVER
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:26 pm

No MD-80s in DTW or MSP?
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cvgComair
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:08 pm

Thought I would include CVG/RDU as well:

CVG

CR2: 20
CR7: 10
CR9: 26
717: 2
M88: 1
M90: 5
320: 3
738: 12
739: 2
763: 1

Total = 82
31.7 % mainline

RDU

CR2: 5
CR7: 8
CR9: 16
E70: 3
E75: 5
717: 12
M88: 8
M90: 1
320: 3
321: 3
738: 4
763: 1

Total = 69
46.4 % mainline
 
beerbus
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
The most striking thing about Delta’s current schedule is how much regional jet flying happens at DTW, and how much of it is on 50-seaters. It’s less pronounced than four years ago, but it’s still a huge portion.


I think if FSDan listed the destinations and frequencies of those 93 CR2 flights (hint!) we would see that they are not all going to be upgauged to CR9/E75. In a few instances it's going to be CR2 or nothing - at the loss of some destinations from the network entirely. DTW-CIU (Sault Ste Marie, pop 38K for the 2,698 sq mile micropolitan statistical area) was a Saab in the NW days. IMHO, no way that sees a daily 76-seater on a year-round basis.


I would agree- If you go back in time and look at the Michigan, Indiana, and Wisconsin cities served by NC, RC, and NW, you'll find most of the cities like LAN, TVC, AZO, GRR, SBN, FWA, GRB, FNT, MQT, etc were operated by Convair 580's or DC-9's. After the SO/NC merger, Some of the 580's were replaced by DC9-10's.

Even NW was flying Convairs for a couple years post- NW/RC into numerous DTW spokes. Does anyone remember the infamous G Concourse "The Ho Chi Min Trail" at DTW until the McNamara Terminal opened?

The G concourse was full of SAAB's 340's, BAe J31's, Do-228's, and Metro's. Not to mention CASA 212's!

All of those were replaced by CR2's.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:06 pm

beerbus wrote:


Even NW was flying Convairs for a couple years post- NW/RC into numerous DTW spokes. Does anyone remember the infamous G Concourse "The Ho Chi Min Trail" at DTW until the McNamara Terminal opened?

The G concourse was full of SAAB's 340's, BAe J31's, Do-228's, and Metro's. Not to mention CASA 212's!

All of those were replaced by CR2's.


I do remember the G Concourse in the Davey Terminal but my memory doesn't go back beyond the Saabs. You may have a few years on me.
 
jonair8
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:09 pm

Again thanks for comping these data, FSDan. Some interesting tidbits I've found from this is:

E75 is rapidly taking over in SLC, at the expense of the CR7/9. I think most of these are coded E7W, which looks to be the OO example. Both CP and OO E75s have lots of flights in SEA and SLC, but CP seems to be the majority in SEA, and OO seems to be majority in SLC, since some former E75 LAX markets have been up gauged to 717s, 319s, and 738s (LAX-SFO is a big one).

SEA is larger than LAX. Its only by 4 flights on that day, so it may be due to seasonal markets like SEA-SIT and KTN, but its interesting to see how large SEA has gotten since the last time these data were compiled. There have been skeptics about DL's SEA hub, but I think these data, in addition to the previous thread, show that SEA is growing as the economy in the PNW grows. Only problem is the current gate situation there.

MSP is E75 free. I believe it used to be Compass's largest domicile, and now it is home to only CRJs. Wonder if the E75 will ever make a comeback at MSP.

Also very nice to see how much of a presence the A321 has in SLC nowadays. I would say these, and the 739 are replacing a lot of what the 757 used to do in SLC.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:26 pm

FSDan wrote:
ATL

M88: 293

Total = 1057


Good to see that the M88 does most of the flying at Hartsfield. Counting arrivals and departures that's almost six hundred flights per day. Amazing!

Add to that the one hundred daily M90 flights and it's clear that Atlanta is a T-tail spotter's heaven.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:39 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Thought I would include CVG/RDU as well:

CVG

CR2: 20
CR7: 10
CR9: 26
717: 2
M88: 1
M90: 5
320: 3
738: 12
739: 2
763: 1

Total = 82
31.7 % mainline

RDU

CR2: 5
CR7: 8
CR9: 16
E70: 3
E75: 5
717: 12
M88: 8
M90: 1
320: 3
321: 3
738: 4
763: 1

Total = 69
46.4 % mainline


When is DL finally going to stop calling CVG a hub? It's just a focus city now.
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FSDan
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:50 pm

jonair8 wrote:
Some interesting tidbits I've found from this is:

MSP is E75 free. I believe it used to be Compass's largest domicile, and now it is home to only CRJs. Wonder if the E75 will ever make a comeback at MSP.


I thought that was really interesting too! I'm wondering if gate space has something to do with it - I'm not sure how many gates on the C concourse higher than C11 can handle E-Jets, and maybe with the increasing count of mainline flights it just didn't make sense to fly E75s into MSP anymore since those would largely be taking up space at mainline-capable gates?
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FSDan
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:53 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
FSDan wrote:
ATL

M88: 293

Total = 1057


Good to see that the M88 does most of the flying at Hartsfield. Counting arrivals and departures that's almost six hundred flights per day. Amazing!

Add to that the one hundred daily M90 flights and it's clear that Atlanta is a T-tail spotter's heaven.


Don't forget the 717s! Plenty of those around ATL.

As others have noted, the M88 fleet has been consolidated entirely to the ATL hub, doing lots of sub-2 hour flying. Consequently, M88 departure numbers are up at ATL even as the total active fleet count is down.
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cvgComair
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:56 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Thought I would include CVG/RDU as well:

CVG

CR2: 20
CR7: 10
CR9: 26
717: 2
M88: 1
M90: 5
320: 3
738: 12
739: 2
763: 1

Total = 82
31.7 % mainline

RDU

CR2: 5
CR7: 8
CR9: 16
E70: 3
E75: 5
717: 12
M88: 8
M90: 1
320: 3
321: 3
738: 4
763: 1

Total = 69
46.4 % mainline

When is DL finally going to stop calling CVG a hub? It's just a focus city now.

They have been phasing out its hub designation on most of their stuff, so it seems they already have. While daily departures have not changed in almost 3 years, the connecting passengers have dipped all the way down to 15-20% of their traffic at CVG. They have been working recently to fill seats at CVG with O&D passengers rather than connecting, cutting high connecting routes such as CVG-MEM/XNA and replacing them with high O&D routes like CVG-AUS/PHX. CVG/RDU/BOS should all be focus cities, not hubs, but it depends on who you ask at DL/where you look on their material.
 
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KLASM83
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:15 pm

Glad to see MSP has all the mainline T-tails that it does!
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MSPNWA
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:15 pm

FSDan wrote:
I thought that was really interesting too! I'm wondering if gate space has something to do with it - I'm not sure how many gates on the C concourse higher than C11 can handle E-Jets, and maybe with the increasing count of mainline flights it just didn't make sense to fly E75s into MSP anymore since those would largely be taking up space at mainline-capable gates?


It's not an operational issue. There's plenty of gate space as CRJs now dominate gates that are mainline capable. They've moved the superior product of the E-jets away from their captive customers at their fortress hubs and into their competitive markets. The EMBs are missed at MSP. Nearly half of DL's departures at MSP are now CRJs. Just another small jab at the customers that consistently provide some of DL's highest margins. It's one of many pieces of evidence that says that product have very little to do with profits. If it did, MSP and DTW would never be near the highest margin hubs for DL.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:16 pm

Great job on this! The G concourse in DTW also hosted the Fairchild Metro's lets not forget those sardine cans.

Cant wait for the CSeries to start showing up, especially in the D. Those Md88's can have fun in ATL, I avoid them and ATL at all cost, same with the MD90's, I like my upgraded interiors and TV's thank you
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bnatraveler
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:24 pm

BNA

CR9: 12
E75: 7
717: 6
M88: 11
319: 1
738: 4

Total = 41 (11 destinations)
53.7% mainline

- Rumored to get a +1 SEA
- 6 of 11 ATLs are going to 757 from M88 on 07AUG
- Station staff have been told to expect ~50 flights/peak day by end of 2018
- I had assumed a lower mainline % since BNA does OO and EMB maintenance, but glad we're >50%
 
FSDan
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I think if FSDan listed the destinations and frequencies of those 93 CR2 flights (hint!) we would see that they are not all going to be upgauged to CR9/E75. In a few instances it's going to be CR2 or nothing - at the loss of some destinations from the network entirely. DTW-CIU (Sault Ste Marie, pop 38K for the 2,698 sq mile micropolitan statistical area) was a Saab in the NW days. IMHO, no way that sees a daily 76-seater on a year-round basis.


OK, I'll bite (because I agree with your point overall). Here are the CR2 destinations and frequencies on 7/23. Entries with a * denote that the CR2 service constitutes the entire service to that destination from DTW. Otherwise, the CR2s are supplemented by 2-class RJs and/or mainline.

*YOW x2
CID x3
*MQT x2
*IMT x1
*ESC x2
*CIU x1
*CWA x2
GRB x2
ATW x1
*MLI x2
*PIA x2
*EVV x3
*FWA x3
*SBN x5
AZO x4
*LAN x4
TVC x2
*PLN x4
*APN x1
MBS x3
CAK x2
DAY x2
SDF x2
LEX x2
*CHA x2
*TYS x5
*HSV x1
GSP x2
*GSO x3
*ERI x3
*SCE x3
MDT x3
*ABE x2
*AVP x3
*ITH x2
*BGM x2
SYR x2
*SWF x1
BTV x2

All in all I'd say that DL's using CR2s in entirely appropriate markets now. Markets like MKE, IAD, IND, BUF, and even the likes of GRR, ALB, and BHM now see all 2-class service from DTW.
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FSDan
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:41 pm

FSDan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I think if FSDan listed the destinations and frequencies of those 93 CR2 flights (hint!) we would see that they are not all going to be upgauged to CR9/E75. In a few instances it's going to be CR2 or nothing - at the loss of some destinations from the network entirely. DTW-CIU (Sault Ste Marie, pop 38K for the 2,698 sq mile micropolitan statistical area) was a Saab in the NW days. IMHO, no way that sees a daily 76-seater on a year-round basis.


OK, I'll bite (because I agree with your point overall). Here are the CR2 destinations and frequencies on 7/23. Entries with a * denote that the CR2 service constitutes the entire service to that destination from DTW. Otherwise, the CR2s are supplemented by 2-class RJs and/or mainline.

*YOW x2
CID x3
*MQT x2
*IMT x1
*ESC x2
*CIU x1
*CWA x2
GRB x2
ATW x1
*MLI x2
*PIA x2
*EVV x3
*FWA x3
*SBN x5
AZO x4
*LAN x4
TVC x2
*PLN x4
*APN x1
MBS x3
CAK x2
DAY x2
SDF x2
LEX x2
*CHA x2
*TYS x5
*HSV x1
GSP x2
*GSO x3
*ERI x3
*SCE x3
MDT x3
*ABE x2
*AVP x3
*ITH x2
*BGM x2
SYR x2
*SWF x1
BTV x2

All in all I'd say that DL's using CR2s in entirely appropriate markets now. Markets like MKE, IAD, IND, BUF, and even the likes of GRR, ALB, and BHM now see all 2-class service from DTW.


I ran some quick calculations... The average DL CR2 stage length ex DTW is 303.5 miles, and the longest flight is DTW-HSV at 554 miles. Not bad at all, in my opinion.

There are probably a few more opportunities to upgauge from CR2s to large RJs at DTW (e.g. DTW-TYS, maybe one or two frequencies apiece on DTW-SBN, DTW-GSO, DTW-BTV, DTW-MDT, etc.), but overall the 50-seaters are on the types of routes they were made for: short stage lengths and small destinations.
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Midwestindy
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:48 pm

bnatraveler wrote:
BNA
- Rumored to get a +1 SEA
- Station staff have been told to expect ~50 flights/peak day by end of 2018


Do you mean by end of 2019? There is no way they will add that many flights by the end of the year, considering we are midway through June.
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
bnatraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:10 am

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:53 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
bnatraveler wrote:
BNA
- Rumored to get a +1 SEA
- Station staff have been told to expect ~50 flights/peak day by end of 2018


Do you mean by end of 2019? There is no way they will add that many flights by the end of the year, considering we are midway through June.


They said 2018, but I agree that is pretty aggressive.
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:46 pm

FSDan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I think if FSDan listed the destinations and frequencies of those 93 CR2 flights (hint!) we would see that they are not all going to be upgauged to CR9/E75. In a few instances it's going to be CR2 or nothing - at the loss of some destinations from the network entirely. DTW-CIU (Sault Ste Marie, pop 38K for the 2,698 sq mile micropolitan statistical area) was a Saab in the NW days. IMHO, no way that sees a daily 76-seater on a year-round basis.


OK, I'll bite (because I agree with your point overall). Here are the CR2 destinations and frequencies on 7/23. Entries with a * denote that the CR2 service constitutes the entire service to that destination from DTW. Otherwise, the CR2s are supplemented by 2-class RJs and/or mainline.

*YOW x2
CID x3
*MQT x2
*IMT x1
*ESC x2
*CIU x1
*CWA x2
GRB x2
ATW x1
*MLI x2
*PIA x2
*EVV x3
*FWA x3
*SBN x5
AZO x4
*LAN x4
TVC x2
*PLN x4
*APN x1
MBS x3
CAK x2
DAY x2
SDF x2
LEX x2
*CHA x2
*TYS x5
*HSV x1
GSP x2
*GSO x3
*ERI x3
*SCE x3
MDT x3
*ABE x2
*AVP x3
*ITH x2
*BGM x2
SYR x2
*SWF x1
BTV x2

All in all I'd say that DL's using CR2s in entirely appropriate markets now. Markets like MKE, IAD, IND, BUF, and even the likes of GRR, ALB, and BHM now see all 2-class service from DTW.


In 2011, DL had x7 CR2/day on PVD-DTW. Today there's a 717 & 3 CR9/day.
 
SteelChair
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:56 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
FSDan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I think if FSDan listed the destinations and frequencies of those 93 CR2 flights (hint!) we would see that they are not all going to be upgauged to CR9/E75. In a few instances it's going to be CR2 or nothing - at the loss of some destinations from the network entirely. DTW-CIU (Sault Ste Marie, pop 38K for the 2,698 sq mile micropolitan statistical area) was a Saab in the NW days. IMHO, no way that sees a daily 76-seater on a year-round basis.


OK, I'll bite (because I agree with your point overall). Here are the CR2 destinations and frequencies on 7/23. Entries with a * denote that the CR2 service constitutes the entire service to that destination from DTW. Otherwise, the CR2s are supplemented by 2-class RJs and/or mainline.

*YOW x2
CID x3
*MQT x2
*IMT x1
*ESC x2
*CIU x1
*CWA x2
GRB x2
ATW x1
*MLI x2
*PIA x2
*EVV x3
*FWA x3
*SBN x5
AZO x4
*LAN x4
TVC x2
*PLN x4
*APN x1
MBS x3
CAK x2
DAY x2
SDF x2
LEX x2
*CHA x2
*TYS x5
*HSV x1
GSP x2
*GSO x3
*ERI x3
*SCE x3
MDT x3
*ABE x2
*AVP x3
*ITH x2
*BGM x2
SYR x2
*SWF x1
BTV x2

All in all I'd say that DL's using CR2s in entirely appropriate markets now. Markets like MKE, IAD, IND, BUF, and even the likes of GRR, ALB, and BHM now see all 2-class service from DTW.


In 2011, DL had x7 CR2/day on PVD-DTW. Today there's a 717 & 3 CR9/day.


I think this trend will continue over the next 5 year in many markets.

50 seaters go away slowly
76 seat take over 50 seat flying with less frequency
109/110 seaters take 76 seat flying, less frequency.

Its an upgauge. May help with ATC, due fewer planes in the air, though the slot control airports will always be full. Also helps with seat mile costs and pilot shortage.
Last edited by SteelChair on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jagraham
Posts: 737
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:01 am

[threeid][/threeid]
BoeingGuy wrote:
Three of the 763s at SLC go to AMS, CDG, and LHR. Where does the fourth go?

SLC has gotten the A330 at times too, but lately the Europe flights have been all 767s.


The fourth 763 is DL2767 to HNL. I need to see what ships are flying the route since the non-ER 767s have been withdrawn from service (except 1 PW 763 used for backup and charter).

Also ATL-HNL appears to have gone to a 764, from a 333.
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:06 am

would love to see more of those CR2's disappear on CID-DTW, the route is over 400 miles. But we at least are getting a CR7/CR9 on the route.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:36 am

Any chance of doing DL @ MCO?

That operation is bursting every time I am thru there, and they just keep adding.
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
klm617
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:39 am

bnatraveler wrote:
BNA

CR9: 12
E75: 7
717: 6
M88: 11
319: 1
738: 4

Total = 41 (11 destinations)
53.7% mainline

- Rumored to get a +1 SEA
- 6 of 11 ATLs are going to 757 from M88 on 07AUG
- Station staff have been told to expect ~50 flights/peak day by end of 2018
- I had assumed a lower mainline % since BNA does OO and EMB maintenance, but glad we're >50%


This will again force more traffic away from the others hubs and over ATL. Why not spread the capacity around evenly between the other hubs from BNA
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:42 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Great job on this! The G concourse in DTW also hosted the Fairchild Metro's lets not forget those sardine cans.

Cant wait for the CSeries to start showing up, especially in the D. Those Md88's can have fun in ATL, I avoid them and ATL at all cost, same with the MD90's, I like my upgraded interiors and TV's thank you



Let us also not forget the Mesaba Fokkers and Dash-8s
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:48 am

N766UA wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
The crazy thing to me about ATL is not just the number of flights, but how it can do such a high %age as mainline. To put it in perspective, distant 2nd DTW (well under half the number of flights to ATL) still has 25% more DL Connection flights than ATL.


And the number of CRJ's in Atlanta alone, with ~200 flights a day, would constitute a hub at any other airport in the country, including elsewhere in DL's system. But in ATL, it doesn't even rate.



Because Delta want's is customers to connect through ATL and it does this to manipulate traffic flows. With all that mainline the other hubs are less desirable as connection points as Delta has to keep the enplanement numbers as high as it can. These is plenty of room to add mainline at the other hubs but Delta choses not to it want's it's customer to focus on Atlanta as their primary connection point.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
bnatraveler
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:10 am

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:17 am

klm617 wrote:
bnatraveler wrote:
BNA

CR9: 12
E75: 7
717: 6
M88: 11
319: 1
738: 4

Total = 41 (11 destinations)
53.7% mainline

- Rumored to get a +1 SEA
- 6 of 11 ATLs are going to 757 from M88 on 07AUG
- Station staff have been told to expect ~50 flights/peak day by end of 2018
- I had assumed a lower mainline % since BNA does OO and EMB maintenance, but glad we're >50%


This will again force more traffic away from the others hubs and over ATL. Why not spread the capacity around evenly between the other hubs from BNA


True, but the upgrade from M88 to 757 on ATL come 07AUG is much more to do with WN coming in with 5x weekday flights on BNA-ATL. Those flights go out full already on the M88s - mostly with connections ex ATL. I know many, many people who drive BNA-ATL because DL's fares on the route have been >$600/rt for the cheapest business-day roundtrip and >$350-400/rt for a weekend stay. The traffic on I-75 from Chattanooga to Atlanta, and consequently on I-24 from Nashville to Chattanooga has made the commute take >4 hours during the week now. WN is certainly going to try to capture drivers and stimulate traffic between the cities with their full-fare Y of $322/rt and lower WGA and promo fares. This move, to me, is DL making room using the same schedule with new equipment at a very low CASM for ~200 seats for stimulated/recaptured passengers vs. WN's totally new flights carrying 715 pax.
 
jordanh
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:34 am

klm617 wrote:
t is Delta's effort to make Detroit less desirable as a connection point than it's other hubs. Detroit has many RJ routes that are flown by mainline to other hubs. Cities like IAH and IND are still primarily flown by RJs in an attempt to force connections over ATL rather than DTW.


Prove that, with strategic directives or statements from people who know what they are talking about.

klm617 wrote:
Because Delta want's is customers to connect through ATL and it does this to manipulate traffic flows. With all that mainline the other hubs are less desirable as connection points as Delta has to keep the enplanement numbers as high as it can. These is plenty of room to add mainline at the other hubs but Delta choses not to it want's it's customer to focus on Atlanta as their primary connection point.



Try to prove that, too. Otherwise, please confine your drivel to the DTW topic... where people are accustomed to your rants.
 
freakyrat
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:34 am

Speaking of the DL ATL hub there is a possibility of SBN getting a return of at least 1 Mainline 717 roundtrio before years out and not just for the ND Football weekends. DL has already upguaged an afternoon flight to a CRJ900. This week they operated a B717 on the last flight into SBN from ATL and it was sold to 86 seats including the Economy Comfort and First Class Seating. The jet operated the morning flight to MSP the next day also selling over 85 seats. It seams like Delta is experimenting to see how they can ditch the CRJ200's and what routes they can upgrade and with what aircraft. My sources seem to believe that in the future only SBN-DTW will be operated by CRJ200's and that MSP and ATL will be operated by a mix of CRJ900 and B717 mainline aircraft. Of course on special event weekends for Notre Dame select flights to and from all hubs are operated with mainline aircraft. Delta also has an open RFP for a SBN-JFK roundtrip.
 
axiom
Posts: 808
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:46 am

Always find DL's gigantic FL footprint to be interesting. Here are the two large Central Florida stations to begin... would be good to see South Florida and the smaller stations too. And this is far from peak season...

MCO

320: 7
321: 12
M88: 1
712: 3
738: 3
739: 3
752: 24 (!)
753: 2
763: 2

Total = 55
Mainline = 100%

TPA

CR9: 3
M88: 3
M90: 2
319: 3
320: 5
321: 1
712: 4
738: 3
739: 7
752: 4

Total Flights = 35
Mainline = 91.4%
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 578
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:56 am

bravo MSPNWA!! and thanks axiom for the MCO/TPA info, I knew MCO would be quite impressive and it is.
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2997
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:59 am

freakyrat wrote:
Speaking of the DL ATL hub there is a possibility of SBN getting a return of at least 1 Mainline 717 roundtrio before years out and not just for the ND Football weekends. DL has already upguaged an afternoon flight to a CRJ900. This week they operated a B717 on the last flight into SBN from ATL and it was sold to 86 seats including the Economy Comfort and First Class Seating. The jet operated the morning flight to MSP the next day also selling over 85 seats. It seams like Delta is experimenting to see how they can ditch the CRJ200's and what routes they can upgrade and with what aircraft. My sources seem to believe that in the future only SBN-DTW will be operated by CRJ200's and that MSP and ATL will be operated by a mix of CRJ900 and B717 mainline aircraft. Of course on special event weekends for Notre Dame select flights to and from all hubs are operated with mainline aircraft. Delta also has an open RFP for a SBN-JFK roundtrip.



Unless OO gets that hangar increased in size to accommodate CR9's, SBN (and FWA) will both continue to see mostly CR2 service, especially from ATL. Those are the nearest MX bases for the OO CR2 operations in ATL.
Last edited by DiamondFlyer on Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Runway28L
Posts: 1404
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:01 am

Again, do we really have to turn this into a DTW pissing match? Or a DL bashing thread? Come on :sarcastic: It’s extremely annoying for some of us who just want to search and read up more information.

FSDan, thank you very much for putting this data together along with AA and UA.

I am noticing JFK seems like the most recent hub to receive some A321 flying. Hopefully other destinations start getting them... and I imagine so as deliveries continue.

I too am curious as to what these numbers would look like in a year when the C Series begins to establish itself into the fleet.
Last edited by Runway28L on Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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stl07
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:04 am

Actually, KLM isn't completely wrong. In many situations where a routing over CVG makes much more sense, the connection via out of the way ATL appears in the first 5 or so results.
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7068
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:27 am

I forgot that BNA was an OO maintenance base, hence likely why the last DTW-BNA flight is always a OO CR9.
DTW-TYS is mostly CR2, also since its a 9E maintenance base.

The last scheduled MD88 flights out of DTW (for now) are a the end of June. Entirely likely they will be scheduled again at some point, likely on a ATL-DTW turn at some point before their retirement.

It is interesting to see the movement of E70/E75 out of DTW and MSP in the past few years to the coasts.
I think people tend to exaggerate the difference between the CR9 and the E75 a bit more than it is. They are both pretty similar, with the only noticable difference to most is the lack of rollerboards in the overheads. Frankly, I actually don't mind plane-side valet (when they are punctual about bringing the bags up). Makes for faster boarding/deboarding.

I do have a complaint about the CR7s when used on longer stage lengths, primarily due to the single lav in the rear of the aircraft. You can have the lav blocked due to the FA during inflight service for a good portion of the initial part of the flight. Then, you have the F passengers that have been drinkin' in up all flight then having to trek all the way to the rear and then stand waiting in the aisle with their butts in everyone's face in the last few rows. At least the CR9 have the forward lav to minimize that problem.
 
axiom
Posts: 808
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:35 am

stl07 wrote:
Actually, KLM isn't completely wrong. In many situations where a routing over CVG makes much more sense, the connection via out of the way ATL appears in the first 5 or so results.


Yes, the surprise of the century: DL flows traffic over ATL at the expense of CVG. Grand conspiracy? Or basic economics?

CVG isn't designed to be a large connecting operation. It caters to local traffic and a handful of connections. Those connections are those which can generate a higher margin than comparable connections over ATL (or another other hub), which will be few and far between. The exceptionally favorable unit costs at ATL make it such that a connection over CVG is going to have a hard time competing, in returns of internal margins. Which do you flow traffic over?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7068
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Re: DL S18 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 am

Some other interesting data that shows the impact of fleet changes and increasing seats per departure.

Comparison by aircraft size
- 50 Seat (ERJ, CRJ)
- 2-class RJ (CR7, CR9, E70, E75)
- 120 seat (73G, 717, 319)
- 150 seat (320, 738, M88, M90)
- >180 seat (321, 739, 752, 753)
- Widebody (332, 333, 359, 744, 777, 77L)

ATL:
Category, 2014 count, 2018 count, Difference
50 Seat RJ 142 119 -23
2-Class RJ 79 89 10
120 seat 137 146 9
150 seat 394 421 27
180 seat+ 188 248 60
Widebody 45 34 -11
985 1057 72

DTW:
Category, 2014 count, 2018 count, Difference
50 Seat RJ 209 93 -116
2-Class RJ 100 164 64
120 seat 57 65 8
150 seat 72 47 -25
180 seat+ 29 70 41
Widebody 22 14 -8
489 453 -36

Comments:
Interesting that ATL has no E-Jets then, nor now, and never really has since around the time of the merger
They have pulled most of the A319s out of ATL in 2018
ATL & DTW are both down in widebody departures, almost all due in part to the retirement of all but the last domestic 763s
DTW is down 25 flights in the ~150 seat range but up 41 flights in the >180 seat narrowbody category. They are up in 739, 752, 753, (obviously A321s too) since 2014.
Fewer 753s in ATL this summer than in 2014.

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