paulduwon
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Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:11 am

I know what you might be thinking - ANC was a transit hub during the Soviet era for Asian and European carriers.

I was thinking if it's possible for a new low-cost airline or even Alaska Airlines (even though AS focuses on the mainland services) to establish a transit hub for passengers traveling between Asia and North America?
WOW Air and Icelandair use Reykjavik as a transit hub for passengers flying between North America and Europe. I think if proper equipments are available, a low-cost market could emerge between Asia and North America.
Not to mention Alaska is also a tourist destination, so I think a fair amount of Asian tourists could take nonstop flights to Alaska as well.

I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:24 am

I think it function very much like Iceland. O&D to Asia isn't nearly as high as Europe though so the leisure market is smaller. I still think it could work. Connect maybe 8 cities in the US with 8 Asian cities . It doesn't have to be super large .
 
Chugach
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:46 am

Prepare to be inundated with uppity posts about the search function.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:04 am

Chugach wrote:
Prepare to be inundated with uppity posts about the search function.


Umm...bc this topic had become a quarterly, if not monthly thread? Well, it is either ANC or HNL.

BTW one thing to also take into consideration is that ANC-NRT (2984nmi) is nearly as long as JFK-LHR (2999nmi). Doable with modern narrowbody but pretty much everything beyond NRT gets more and more painful. Essentially what’s on paper a “short/mid haul” LCC is no different than the “long haul” operation that Norwegian UK runs right now.
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777PHX
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:16 am

Chugach wrote:
Prepare to be inundated with uppity posts about the search function.


To be fair, this brilliant idea comes up at least on a monthly basis.

It doesn't make much sense. Who wants to stopover in ANC on the way to Asia? Or stopover in the middle of the night eastbound?

ANC-NRT and maybe Seoul are about as far as you could get from ANC on a modern narrowbody. Anything else requires a widebody and is longhaul, which sort of defeats the purpose.
 
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:24 am

Also, the people who would put up with a stopover/connection are the cost-conscious travelers. Right now, airlines are practically giving away seats on nonstop flights between the U.S. and China and other parts of Asia. Fares can't really get much lower, so why take a middle-of-the-night stopover when you can take a nonstop for the same ridiculously low fare?
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NameOmitted
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:37 am

Yes, if 2 conditions are met:

1) the politics surrounding global climate change becomes such that there is a significant (read crippling) tax on jet fuel.

2) the 797 has a kick-ass fuel burn optimized for a range of 4,500-5,000 miles.
 
Utah744
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:41 am

How is that concept working for WOW and Iccelandair?
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XLA2008
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:01 am

Just my 2 cents and I’m not to aware of the market, but I don’t see why it couldn’t work, I mean Icelandair have made a successful goal in the transatlantic market, offering fares to cities in the states not always served non stop, alongside those they also sell Iceland as a place to stop and spend time on your way by extending your stop over a little (of course you don’t have to) so they really push all markets, they have also introduced widebodies with the 767 and utilize the range and capabilities of the 757, while WOW offer the same trip type on the A330... and again they also compete with very cheap transatlantic fares from major carries and low cost airlines that offer non stop, granted it is a larger market but it works. So opening the same operation in Anchorage I wouldn’t think is completely out of scope, and using widebodies as icelandair and wow do has proven to work, their competition for fares wouldn’t be far off those that Icelandair and WOW face from European majors and LCC’s. That’s just my thoughts, I’m not aware of the market share or yields to offer factual statistics so anybody with in depth knowledge of the NA/Asia market would be better equipped to answer.
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konrad
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:39 am

Who would want to clear US immigration at ANC in the middle of the night?
 
PanHAM
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:32 am

konrad wrote:
Who would want to clear US immigration at ANC in the middle of the night?


Who wants to clear US Immigration at any time of the day? :)

Fun aside. I flew Japan/Germany via ANC several times in the late 70s/early 80s and there was no Need to clear Immigration. They had a Transit Lounge where passengers could buy salmon and crab legs I am sure that this Service would no longer be available and that alone would killl the Project- Besides a Europe one-stop narrowbody Service would work via Siberia as well and would probably be shorter.
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:40 am

konrad wrote:
Who would want to clear US immigration at ANC in the middle of the night?


This is about enough to sum it up. This operation would depend heavily on East Asia pax wanting to visit the U.S., and as has been pointed out, there's no shortage of cheap non-stops to popular destinations. You're not going to make this work with bargain fares on PEK-ANC-SLC with a free stopover in Alaska.
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RJMAZ
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:40 am

NameOmitted wrote:
Yes, if 2 conditions are met:

1) the politics surrounding global climate change becomes such that there is a significant (read crippling) tax on jet fuel.

2) the 797 has a kick-ass fuel burn optimized for a range of 4,500-5,000 miles.

Strongly agree with this.

It's really the only way it will work.

I think point to point will continue with the 787 and A350's crossing the pacific for the next decade or two.

I think Hawaii is in an even better position to reach south east asia. Hawaii to Hong Kong is 4800nm and Hawaii to New York is 4300nm.

With Hawaii you have all of North america within range of the longest range 797.
 
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:13 am

konrad wrote:
Who would want to clear US immigration at ANC in the middle of the night?

Compared with two nights on a beach in Hawaii 8-)

Much better option than ANC.
 
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:20 am

TPAC fares are regularly $400-500rt all in, so there isn’t any advantage to adding a new stop in a new hub. And nothing is low cost enough to make money on $200 for 12 hours of flying...and there aren’t enough ancillary fees in the world to make up the balance
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chunhimlai
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:30 am

To be honest PRC carrier is offering full-cost service with low-cost fare
 
Rdh3e
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:32 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Yes, if 2 conditions are met:

1) the politics surrounding global climate change becomes such that there is a significant (read crippling) tax on jet fuel.

In what way would this advantage an ANC hub? This would exacerbate the issue. Flying a single segment long haul will burn less fuel per passenger than flying the same passengers via ANC. Nonstop = more efficient routing, one-stop = less time at cruise which is the most efficient phase of flight.
 
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:44 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
In what way would this advantage an ANC hub? This would exacerbate the issue. Flying a single segment long haul will burn less fuel per passenger than flying the same passengers via ANC. Nonstop = more efficient routing, one-stop = less time at cruise which is the most efficient phase of flight.

Fuel is heavy, and there comes a point where transporting the the fuel needed for long range costs more fuel than a stop-over.
 
incitatus
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:53 pm

Perfectly possible. It takes an airline that wants to do it. A330 or A330-neo might be the perfect aircraft. A hub in Anchorage could cover Asia entirely. Jakarta is 7000 miles away and Chennai is 6600 mi away. Everything else that matters is shorter.
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mdavies06
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:13 pm

777PHX wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Prepare to be inundated with uppity posts about the search function.


To be fair, this brilliant idea comes up at least on a monthly basis.

It doesn't make much sense. Who wants to stopover in ANC on the way to Asia? Or stopover in the middle of the night eastbound?

ANC-NRT and maybe Seoul are about as far as you could get from ANC on a modern narrowbody. Anything else requires a widebody and is longhaul, which sort of defeats the purpose.


5 months ago:

viewtopic.php?t=1392119

Old discussions are so exciting.
 
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:17 pm

I'm getting the strangest feeling of Deja vu.
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lostsound
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:20 pm

You have to remember that most Asian destinations are a lot further south from Alaska than European destinations are from Iceland. I don't think this model makes any sense here. It'd be better to run that model out of Hawaii... a lot closer to the majority of Asian cities.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:26 pm

More like Vu Jade, that feeling of not wanting to be here yet again.

gf
 
klakzky123
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:46 pm

Aren't the Chinese carriers acting as the low cost Asian option (and by extension making Chinese airports the LCC hubs for Asia)? ANC lost its value once the Soviet Union opened up its airspace.
 
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
More like Vu Jade, that feeling of not wanting to be here yet again.

gf


Yet here you are. That seems more inexplicable than a redundant thread..at least to me.

As to thread topic, works great if you are a box.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:46 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
Aren't the Chinese carriers acting as the low cost Asian option (and by extension making Chinese airports the LCC hubs for Asia)? ANC lost its value once the Soviet Union opened up its airspace.


Tell that to UPS or FedEx or the gajillion cargo operators there :scratchchin: .

lostsound wrote:
You have to remember that most Asian destinations are a lot further south from Alaska than European destinations are from Iceland. I don't think this model makes any sense here. It'd be better to run that model out of Hawaii... a lot closer to the majority of Asian cities.


Which is not true. Some sample East/SE Asian Cities, first number is from ANC, second from HNL (All Great Circle Distance from GCMap)
NRT - 2984nmi vs. 3318nmi
ICN - 3300nmi vs. 3977nmi
PEK - 3442nmi vs. 4398nmi
PVG - 3744nmi vs. 4281nmi
HKG - 4415nmi vs. 4839nmi
MNL - 4617nmi vs. 4607nmi
HAN - 4694nmi vs. 5285nmi
SGN - 5128nmi vs. 5474nmi
BKK - 5227nmi vs. 5728nmi
SIN - 5791nmi vs. 5832nmi
CGK - 6109nmi vs. 5844nmi

Basically MNL or cities closer to equator like SIN or CGK are the only major cities that is closer to HNL than ANC. China/Japan/South Korea or even Thailand/Vietnam? All closer to ANC.

Then you consider this (I just listed some larger airports/cities out there, but you get the point)
YVR - 1156nmi vs. 2351nmi
SEA - 1259nmi vs. 2326nmi
SFO - 1746nmi vs. 2084nmi
LAS - 2002nmi vs. 2400nmi
LAX - 2038nmi vs. 2221nmi
DEN - 2090nmi vs. 2924nmi
ORD - 2473nmi vs. 3687nmi
YYZ - 2635nmi vs. 4040nmi
DFW - 2644nmi vs. 3288nmi
IAH - 2838nmi vs. 3392nmi
IAD - 2916nmi vs. 4186nmi
BOS - 2940nmi vs. 4427nmi
JFK - 2942nmi vs. 4330nmi
ATL - 2969nmi vs. 3912nmi
MIA - 3479nmi vs. 4225nmi

In fact, about the furthest east you can go from HNL to mainland US/Canada with a narrowbody is DEN, while airports as far south as IAH/DFW/ATL or as far east as JFK/BOS are perfectly doable on a modern narrowbody to/from ANC.

incitatus wrote:
Perfectly possible. It takes an airline that wants to do it. A330 or A330-neo might be the perfect aircraft. A hub in Anchorage could cover Asia entirely. Jakarta is 7000 miles away and Chennai is 6600 mi away. Everything else that matters is shorter.


Once you get to A330/A330neo, why bother with ANC? You can (theoretically) fly to every single major East/SE Asian cities (except CGK, and SIN is also cutting it close) with A339neo from SEA, along with pretty much everywhere in India (Although, again, Southern India is cutting things close, but DEL or BOM? No problem). Hack, throw in some A338neo and southern India or Jakarta is no longer a problem, either.

Conversely, you can based a long-haul LCC in Tokyo or Osaka and voila, you can reach Europe and the entire North America and Australia with some A330neos. Which is something that you can bet AirAsia X is going to try sooner or later (along with JL's "low-cost long-haul subsidary").
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:56 pm

paulduwon wrote:
I know what you might be thinking - ANC was a transit hub during the Soviet era for Asian and European carriers.

I was thinking if it's possible for a new low-cost airline or even Alaska Airlines (even though AS focuses on the mainland services) to establish a transit hub for passengers traveling between Asia and North America?
WOW Air and Icelandair use Reykjavik as a transit hub for passengers flying between North America and Europe. I think if proper equipments are available, a low-cost market could emerge between Asia and North America.
Not to mention Alaska is also a tourist destination, so I think a fair amount of Asian tourists could take nonstop flights to Alaska as well.

I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions!


An interesting idea!

One thing to remember about transit hubs is virtually all airports depend on a significant amount of O&D to drive demand. ANC would have virtually none to supplement what's going on in the model you proposed. The small populations Anchorage and Alaska coupled with the significant distances - and the ever-growing list of budget airlines flying between cities, dropping yields on most fares - not to mention UA/AA/DL frequent flyers happily going via those hubs and earning miles means this model won't work. However, your geographic knowledge is excellent, and your logic is spot on (I'm a 9th grade geography teacher!), and it in my days of creating my own fantasy airlines and routes, what you propose was actually one of them, both Anchorage and Honolulu. "Pacifica Air" was its name. I even did one for Thailand in the 1980's, but looking at geographical distances and such, I remember thinking, "hmmm...maybe it'd be better if an airline in the Middle East did these routes? Like say, Bahrain or Qatar or Oman or the UAE?" Yep, I predicted the rise of the ME3 and the mega-hub, so who knows what can happen?
 
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:27 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
Aren't the Chinese carriers acting as the low cost Asian option (and by extension making Chinese airports the LCC hubs for Asia)? ANC lost its value once the Soviet Union opened up its airspace.


Tell that to UPS or FedEx or the gajillion cargo operators there :scratchchin: .

lostsound wrote:
You have to remember that most Asian destinations are a lot further south from Alaska than European destinations are from Iceland. I don't think this model makes any sense here. It'd be better to run that model out of Hawaii... a lot closer to the majority of Asian cities.


Which is not true. Some sample East/SE Asian Cities, first number is from ANC, second from HNL (All Great Circle Distance from GCMap)
NRT - 2984nmi vs. 3318nmi
ICN - 3300nmi vs. 3977nmi
PEK - 3442nmi vs. 4398nmi
PVG - 3744nmi vs. 4281nmi
HKG - 4415nmi vs. 4839nmi
MNL - 4617nmi vs. 4607nmi
HAN - 4694nmi vs. 5285nmi
SGN - 5128nmi vs. 5474nmi
BKK - 5227nmi vs. 5728nmi
SIN - 5791nmi vs. 5832nmi
CGK - 6109nmi vs. 5844nmi

Basically MNL or cities closer to equator like SIN or CGK are the only major cities that is closer to HNL than ANC. China/Japan/South Korea or even Thailand/Vietnam? All closer to ANC.

Then you consider this (I just listed some larger airports/cities out there, but you get the point)
YVR - 1156nmi vs. 2351nmi
SEA - 1259nmi vs. 2326nmi
SFO - 1746nmi vs. 2084nmi
LAS - 2002nmi vs. 2400nmi
LAX - 2038nmi vs. 2221nmi
DEN - 2090nmi vs. 2924nmi
ORD - 2473nmi vs. 3687nmi
YYZ - 2635nmi vs. 4040nmi
DFW - 2644nmi vs. 3288nmi
IAH - 2838nmi vs. 3392nmi
IAD - 2916nmi vs. 4186nmi
BOS - 2940nmi vs. 4427nmi
JFK - 2942nmi vs. 4330nmi
ATL - 2969nmi vs. 3912nmi
MIA - 3479nmi vs. 4225nmi

In fact, about the furthest east you can go from HNL to mainland US/Canada with a narrowbody is DEN, while airports as far south as IAH/DFW/ATL or as far east as JFK/BOS are perfectly doable on a modern narrowbody to/from ANC.

incitatus wrote:
Perfectly possible. It takes an airline that wants to do it. A330 or A330-neo might be the perfect aircraft. A hub in Anchorage could cover Asia entirely. Jakarta is 7000 miles away and Chennai is 6600 mi away. Everything else that matters is shorter.


Once you get to A330/A330neo, why bother with ANC? You can (theoretically) fly to every single major East/SE Asian cities (except CGK, and SIN is also cutting it close) with A339neo from SEA, along with pretty much everywhere in India (Although, again, Southern India is cutting things close, but DEL or BOM? No problem). Hack, throw in some A338neo and southern India or Jakarta is no longer a problem, either.

Conversely, you can based a long-haul LCC in Tokyo or Osaka and voila, you can reach Europe and the entire North America and Australia with some A330neos. Which is something that you can bet AirAsia X is going to try sooner or later (along with JL's "low-cost long-haul subsidary").

Your research only confirms the old adage that Hawaii is the remotest place on the Earth.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:46 pm

Hubs require O/D in addition to connecting traffic. So far there are no sustainable Alaska to Asia markets
 
twicearound
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:59 pm

Round and around we go... In related news the 757 line is being restarted
 
Cunard
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:14 pm

exFWAOONW wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
Aren't the Chinese carriers acting as the low cost Asian option (and by extension making Chinese airports the LCC hubs for Asia)? ANC lost its value once the Soviet Union opened up its airspace.


Tell that to UPS or FedEx or the gajillion cargo operators there :scratchchin: .

lostsound wrote:
You have to remember that most Asian destinations are a lot further south from Alaska than European destinations are from Iceland. I don't think this model makes any sense here. It'd be better to run that model out of Hawaii... a lot closer to the majority of Asian cities.


Which is not true. Some sample East/SE Asian Cities, first number is from ANC, second from HNL (All Great Circle Distance from GCMap)
NRT - 2984nmi vs. 3318nmi
ICN - 3300nmi vs. 3977nmi
PEK - 3442nmi vs. 4398nmi
PVG - 3744nmi vs. 4281nmi
HKG - 4415nmi vs. 4839nmi
MNL - 4617nmi vs. 4607nmi
HAN - 4694nmi vs. 5285nmi
SGN - 5128nmi vs. 5474nmi
BKK - 5227nmi vs. 5728nmi
SIN - 5791nmi vs. 5832nmi
CGK - 6109nmi vs. 5844nmi

Basically MNL or cities closer to equator like SIN or CGK are the only major cities that is closer to HNL than ANC. China/Japan/South Korea or even Thailand/Vietnam? All closer to ANC.

Then you consider this (I just listed some larger airports/cities out there, but you get the point)
YVR - 1156nmi vs. 2351nmi
SEA - 1259nmi vs. 2326nmi
SFO - 1746nmi vs. 2084nmi
LAS - 2002nmi vs. 2400nmi
LAX - 2038nmi vs. 2221nmi
DEN - 2090nmi vs. 2924nmi
ORD - 2473nmi vs. 3687nmi
YYZ - 2635nmi vs. 4040nmi
DFW - 2644nmi vs. 3288nmi
IAH - 2838nmi vs. 3392nmi
IAD - 2916nmi vs. 4186nmi
BOS - 2940nmi vs. 4427nmi
JFK - 2942nmi vs. 4330nmi
ATL - 2969nmi vs. 3912nmi
MIA - 3479nmi vs. 4225nmi

In fact, about the furthest east you can go from HNL to mainland US/Canada with a narrowbody is DEN, while airports as far south as IAH/DFW/ATL or as far east as JFK/BOS are perfectly doable on a modern narrowbody to/from ANC.

incitatus wrote:
Perfectly possible. It takes an airline that wants to do it. A330 or A330-neo might be the perfect aircraft. A hub in Anchorage could cover Asia entirely. Jakarta is 7000 miles away and Chennai is 6600 mi away. Everything else that matters is shorter.


Once you get to A330/A330neo, why bother with ANC? You can (theoretically) fly to every single major East/SE Asian cities (except CGK, and SIN is also cutting it close) with A339neo from SEA, along with pretty much everywhere in India (Although, again, Southern India is cutting things close, but DEL or BOM? No problem). Hack, throw in some A338neo and southern India or Jakarta is no longer a problem, either.

Conversely, you can based a long-haul LCC in Tokyo or Osaka and voila, you can reach Europe and the entire North America and Australia with some A330neos. Which is something that you can bet AirAsia X is going to try sooner or later (along with JL's "low-cost long-haul subsidary").

Your research only confirms the old adage that Hawaii is the remotest place on the Earth.


The ''old adage'' that Hawaii is the remotest place on the Earth is actually factually incorrect as the archipelago of islands consisting of the British Overseas Territory of Tristan da Cunha situated in the middle of the South Atlantic Ocean claim that honour.

On a side note I've been to Hawaii (Honolulu and Lahaina) as well as to Tristan da Cunha :-)
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Cunard
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:24 pm

twicearound wrote:
Round and around we go... In related news the 757 line is being restarted


Exactly and I am definitely under the impression that those that post threads such as this do not use the SEARCH function before starting their own threads.

Perhaps those that do so are under the impression that by starting yet another tedious thread regarding the same topic that's been discussed on a.net numerous times before might get different responses from posters to previous threads regarding the same subject or that they want to feel ''special'' by opening their very own thread!

There has been a lot of threads started on a.net recently regarding topics that have been recently discussed or threads that are more or less duplicates of others that are or were being discussed! The Mods should be more proactive regarding this sort of thing in my opinion.
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:39 pm

Cunard wrote:
twicearound wrote:
Round and around we go... In related news the 757 line is being restarted


Exactly and I am definitely under the impression that those that post threads such as this do not use the SEARCH function before starting their own threads.

Perhaps those that do so are under the impression that by starting yet another tedious thread regarding the same topic that's been discussed on a.net numerous times before might get different responses from posters to previous threads regarding the same subject or that they want to feel ''special'' by opening their very own thread!

There has been a lot of threads started on a.net recently regarding topics that have been recently discussed or threads that are more or less duplicates of others that are or were being discussed! The Mods should be more proactive regarding this sort of thing in my opinion.

To be fair though, the "search" function on this website has always been broken. If I'm looking for a specific thread I'll just type it in to google, followed by "airliners.net" and it usually comes right up!
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:44 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Hubs require O/D in addition to connecting traffic. So far there are no sustainable Alaska to Asia markets


Well, there's that seasonal flight from ANC to PKC (On Air Russia/Yakutia) that have been operating for past 8 years or so if you count that as "Asia market" :scratchchin: :scratchchin:

Otherwise, tourism O&D can be build-up once access is improve, but whether an airline can sustained years of loss before the traffic demand gets to the "breakeven point" is another thing.
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Cunard
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:52 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
twicearound wrote:
Round and around we go... In related news the 757 line is being restarted


Exactly and I am definitely under the impression that those that post threads such as this do not use the SEARCH function before starting their own threads.

Perhaps those that do so are under the impression that by starting yet another tedious thread regarding the same topic that's been discussed on a.net numerous times before might get different responses from posters to previous threads regarding the same subject or that they want to feel ''special'' by opening their very own thread!

There has been a lot of threads started on a.net recently regarding topics that have been recently discussed or threads that are more or less duplicates of others that are or were being discussed! The Mods should be more proactive regarding this sort of thing in my opinion.

To be fair though, the "search" function on this website has always been broken. If I'm looking for a specific thread I'll just type it in to google, followed by "airliners.net" and it usually comes right up!


Well that just proves that GOOGLE is usually your best friend in situations like that :-)

I always search before starting a thread or at least have some background knowledge of the subject being discussed. I personally get so much satisfaction when finding out information firsthand rather than posting a question on a.net :-)
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WkndWanderer
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:04 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

An interesting idea!

One thing to remember about transit hubs is virtually all airports depend on a significant amount of O&D to drive demand. ANC would have virtually none to supplement what's going on in the model you proposed. The small populations Anchorage and Alaska coupled with the significant distances


The Anchorage area is more populous than KEF (the entire country of Iceland for that matter) and the Icelandic airlines have successful transfer operations, so local population isn't necessarily determinative on its own. Icelandair has used the 72 hour stopover option to mitigate this some and promote people taking a pit stop on their way to wherever they had originally planned on going.
 
SEAflyer97
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:24 pm

First of all, you can't open any flights to PRC mainland due to the slot restrictions. That's half of the cost-sensitive market. Then, you are looking at destinations in Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Southeast Asia, and Southeast Asia would be too far for any narrow body jets from ANC. Then you are looking at opening a hub at ANC using wide-body jets, and if AS wants to do it(they don't in at least 10 years), they would just open a hub in SEA.
 
SEAflyer97
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:26 pm

WkndWanderer wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:

An interesting idea!

One thing to remember about transit hubs is virtually all airports depend on a significant amount of O&D to drive demand. ANC would have virtually none to supplement what's going on in the model you proposed. The small populations Anchorage and Alaska coupled with the significant distances


The Anchorage area is more populous than KEF (the entire country of Iceland for that matter) and the Icelandic airlines have successful transfer operations, so local population isn't necessarily determinative on its own. Icelandair has used the 72 hour stopover option to mitigate this some and promote people taking a pit stop on their way to wherever they had originally planned on going.


There are no passenger flights between ANC and Asia should tell you something. It's gonna be transit traffic entirely and It's not gonna work.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:43 pm

SEAflyer97 wrote:
First of all, you can't open any flights to PRC mainland due to the slot restrictions.


I'll correct you, MAJOR PRC mainland market. Nobody is going to stop you from operating HRB-ANC or even from airports like TAO or NKG, in another word, far from "can't open ANY flights". Not saying that you can make a profit that way, though.
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citationjet
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:48 pm

paulduwon wrote:
Not to mention Alaska is also a tourist destination, so I think a fair amount of Asian tourists could take nonstop flights to Alaska as well.


A tourist destination for maybe 4 of the 12 months of the year.
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ACCS300
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:25 pm

Iceland is also an EU entry point which facilities super-easy entry for EU citizens as It connects with a 28 country union ( soon to be 27 ).

ANC does not connect with any union of sorts in Asia. For me, just there last week and as a Canadian, entry was painless and seamless, totally unlike a US entry experience. ANC would be a crippling and unpleasant entry for most. Iceland has the #stopover experience nailed due in part to it being a part of Europe even though it's a non-EU country.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:01 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Fuel is heavy, and there comes a point where transporting the the fuel needed for long range costs more fuel than a stop-over.

What you're talking about is closer to 8K+mi routes which would be further than you can go on two narrows anyway.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:47 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Fuel is heavy, and there comes a point where transporting the the fuel needed for long range costs more fuel than a stop-over.

What you're talking about is closer to 8K+mi routes which would be further than you can go on two narrows anyway.


I was going by Wikipedia:

For long-haul flights, the airplane needs to carry additional fuel, leading to higher fuel consumption. Above a certain distance it becomes more fuel-efficient to make a halfway stop to refuel despite the energy losses in descent and climb. For example, a Boeing 777-300 reaches the tipping point at 3,000 nautical miles (5,600 km). It is more fuel-efficient to make a non-stop flight below this distance and to make a stop when covering a longer total distance.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft


If you've got better info, I'm happy to hear it. More to the point, if you have better information, please correct Wikipedia. I am fully willing to own my status as an amateur among knowledgeable people on this forum.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:50 pm

Just for the fun of it, I ran some routes on Great Circle Mapper, and FAI is just about half-way between Hawaii and Europe... :stirthepot:
 
Rdh3e
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:45 pm

[quote="NameOmitted]
If you've got better info, I'm happy to hear it. More to the point, if you have better information, please correct Wikipedia. I am fully willing to own my status as an amateur among knowledgeable people on this forum.[/quote]
I do not have public information I can share with you. That example on Wikipedia is about a single airframe (a 30 year old aircraft none the less), not a comparison between two aircraft.

Fuel is also not the only expense.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:17 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
I do not have public information I can share with you. That example on Wikipedia is about a single airframe (a 30 year old aircraft none the less), not a comparison between two aircraft.

Fuel is also not the only expense.


That's fair, but fuel is the x-factor I mentioned in my somewhat outlandish scenario.

Without getting into non-public information, can you speculate on how well an aircraft that is optimized to 5k mi distances (without the weight needed fire longer range) world do against your 8k mi example?
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:46 pm

Not like unless Trump’s successors relax the visa policy
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:52 pm

No this does not come up monthly. And no, Anchorage is not a great stopping point between the lower 48 and Asia. And why are there so many rude people who feel obligated to respond to a post which obviously does not interest them? If you don't like a topic **tt out, simple.
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enilria
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:01 am

Does somebody have a calendar event set up to automatically launch this thread on the 5th of every month?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Can Anchorage become a low-cost transit hub between Asia and North America?

Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:16 am

mdavies06 wrote:
[
5 months ago:

viewtopic.php?t=1392119

Old discussions are so exciting.


From c933103:
An advantage possessed by KEF is the ability to fly narrow body to smaller towns on both side of the ocean. There are barely any destination in Asian side of the Pacific reachable from ANC on a fully loaded narrowbody.


That is the crux. KEF works off narrowbody economics.

[email protected] gets North Japan and Siberia. (2-class over-water range of the new narrowbodies). The US side is good, but not the Pacific side.

[email protected] gives all of Western Europe all the way to Israel and the Midwestern hubs and most of the eastern seaboard north of Florida.

Doing 20 passengers from this and that destination will work for KEF thanks to narrowbody economics.

ANC must step up to widebodies over the Pacific. That requires far more traffic and higher yields.


Now what might be the game changer is the 797. Change that range circle around ANC to 4,200nm for the higher density (assuming 2 class 797).
The issue for ANC is that so much of the US population is East of the Mississippi which increases stage lengths and thus costs. For KEF, the opposite effect is a benefit.

But if we talk high density seating, ANC Is just too far to markets.

DXB copied SIN to the next level to be a major hub. But ANC would have to compete with HNL which has more O&D. When I do a 2-class range (4800nm) for the shorter 797, that makes it tough for ANC. While ANC would have less distance, they lack O&D and are not entering a market that is hungry for a hub (due to 788 traffic across the Pacific).

Lightsaber
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