I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

I am assuming this is season and we'll likely see the bigger Boeing as summer nears again. Or perhaps a switch the bigger (than the A333) 346 or A350?

It is interesting that YVR keeps the 744 from what I can see through out the entire winter season. I guess that has a lot do with Whistler.

flybynight wrote:

I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

I am assuming this is season and we'll likely see the bigger Boeing as summer nears again. Or perhaps a switch the bigger (than the A333) 346 or A350?

It is interesting that YVR keeps the 744 from what I can see through out the entire winter season. I guess that has a lot do with Whistler.

Could it also have something to do with AC in YVR? I suppose they get quite a few transfer passengers.

I flew on FRA-YVR a few times and most of the times the flight is completely sold out, even overbooked. I remember seeing a lot of Iranians and Indians onboard.

flybynight wrote:

I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

No, yesterday Oct. 28th was the first day: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lh490

Which is interesting since AC has a pretty extensive network of flights direct to Europe (not sure if they fly to Frankfurt from YVR direct).

flybynight wrote:

Which is interesting since AC has a pretty extensive network of flights direct to Europe (not sure if they fly to Frankfurt from YVR direct).

Currently, AC's online schedule shows LH flight as only non-stop YVR-FRA.

flybynight wrote:

Which is interesting since AC has a pretty extensive network of flights direct to Europe (not sure if they fly to Frankfurt from YVR direct).

I know they fly in summer so it might be a seasonal flight, if I remember correctly it's operated by the B788. It departs some two hours before LH. I purposely paid more to fly on LH because of the B744.

Blerg wrote:

flybynight wrote:

I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

I am assuming this is season and we'll likely see the bigger Boeing as summer nears again. Or perhaps a switch the bigger (than the A333) 346 or A350?

It is interesting that YVR keeps the 744 from what I can see through out the entire winter season. I guess that has a lot do with Whistler.

Could it also have something to do with AC in YVR? I suppose they get quite a few transfer passengers.

Probably more to do with winter schedule and additional SEA-Europe competition compared to last year. The 747s are probably better utilized elsewhere until next summer--I doubt LH gets much in the way of SEA-YVR-FRA pax.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

flybynight wrote:

Which is interesting since AC has a pretty extensive network of flights direct to Europe (not sure if they fly to Frankfurt from YVR direct).

Currently, AC's online schedule shows LH flight as only non-stop YVR-FRA.

I flew this year on AC's summer seasonal YVR-FRA

Although this is moderating a bit with Seattle's growth, Seattle is still a highly, highly seasonal destination. It's a much more pleasant place to be during any time of the year that is NOT late October through February. And, while there are plenty of day-trip winter sports for locals, the city isn't close to the sort of winter sports destinations that bring tourist traffic.

Use BA as an example. Over the years it's typically done 2x daily LHR in the summer, usually 1x 744 + 1x 772, and just 1x in the winter, most often the 772, and some years not even daily.

Which is interesting since AC has a pretty extensive network of flights direct to Europe (not sure if they fly to Frankfurt from YVR direct).

Quite frankly between the two I'd travel with LH any day, due to better service.

The winter schedule has brought quite a shake-up to SEA. Among these changes:
- Lufthansa B744 replaced by A333
- British Airways B772/B744 replaced by B772
- Air France B772 replaced by A332
- United B739 to IAD replaced by B752
- Delta B772 to AMS/CDG replaced by A333/B763
- Asiana A359 replaced by B772/A333
- United B738/B739/A319/A320 replaced by CRJ7
- Delta MSP-SEA-DTW B752 replaced by A321

Actually, SEA started initially with the 333 years ago. I remember taking that flight.

Was the A333 that flew in yesterday painted in the new livery? I was outside yesterday and saw a plane that looked like it had the Lufthansa new livery, but was not a 744, which I thought was weird. Forgot to check flight trackers and didn't think about it again until this thread.

stylo777 wrote:

Actually, SEA started initially with the 333 years ago. I remember taking that flight.

Yes good point


And, yes, Seattle is not a great winter destination. Skiing isn't a reason to come here. Whistler is much better and so is Colorado.
I think a lot of winter travel is business.

I saw on the LH website that the A333 goes back to the 744 in April 2019.

Emperortim21 wrote:

Was the A333 that flew in yesterday painted in the new livery? I was outside yesterday and saw a plane that looked like it had the Lufthansa new livery, but was not a 744, which I thought was weird. Forgot to check flight trackers and didn't think about it again until this thread.

Yes, it was:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lh490
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-aiko

stylo777 wrote:

Actually, SEA started initially with the 333 years ago. I remember taking that flight.

They also mixed in an occasional A343, which was always nice to see given SEA hasn't had any carrier with one scheduled since SK left. AF did this as well on their first run at SEA a decade or so ago.

flybynight wrote:

I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

I am assuming this is season and we'll likely see the bigger Boeing as summer nears again. Or perhaps a switch the bigger (than the A333) 346 or A350?

It is interesting that YVR keeps the 744 from what I can see through out the entire winter season. I guess that has a lot do with Whistler.

Would be really cool if the used the A350 when they upguage next summer. Not that I don't love the 747 (I do) but we've so few A350's that come in here, another one would be nice.

Yes, it was:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lh490
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/d-aiko[/quote]



Perfect! That explains it.

gunsontheroof wrote:

stylo777 wrote:

Actually, SEA started initially with the 333 years ago. I remember taking that flight.

They also mixed in an occasional A343, which was always nice to see given SEA hasn't had any carrier with one scheduled since SK left. AF did this as well on their first run at SEA a decade or so ago.

The 333 was there for the longest time, with the occasional 343 subbed in, then in 2014 it went to the 2-class 343, and in spring 2015 (April, IIRC) it went 744, with short spells of 748. I've taken the flight a number of times, the 744 in Winter 16/17 was often partly empty, especially in business, which made the upgrade doable for 15k points.

ER757 wrote:

flybynight wrote:

I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

I am assuming this is season and we'll likely see the bigger Boeing as summer nears again. Or perhaps a switch the bigger (than the A333) 346 or A350?

It is interesting that YVR keeps the 744 from what I can see through out the entire winter season. I guess that has a lot do with Whistler.

Would be really cool if the used the A350 when they upguage next summer. Not that I don't love the 747 (I do) but we've so few A350's that come in here, another one would be nice.

Agreed, but I will take 747's as long as we can.
Something about see the Queen of the Skies, especially returning home to Seattle (well Everett).

JakeWelty wrote:

- United B738/B739/A319/A320 replaced by CRJ7

What???

JakeWelty wrote:

- United B739 to IAD replaced by B752

Minor correction-the B752 is actually going to EWR, not IAD, and they did this in W17/18 too so it isn't new. IAD is 2-3x A320/737, as it always has been.

Going back to the main topic, this isn't the first time that SEA-FRA has seen the A333. LH's loads on SEA-FRA in the winter aren't great so they probably decided to either reduce frequency and keep the B744, or downgauge and stay daily, and now we know what they chose.

717atOGG wrote:

JakeWelty wrote:

- United B739 to IAD replaced by B752

Minor correction-the B752 is actually going to EWR, not IAD, and they did this in W17/18 too so it isn't new. IAD is 2-3x A320/737, as it always has been.

Going back to the main topic, this isn't the first time that SEA-FRA has seen the A333. LH's loads on SEA-FRA in the winter aren't great so they probably decided to either reduce frequency and keep the B744, or downgauge and stay daily, and now we know what they chose.

Exactly this. Winter 17/18 it was daily 747, while 16/17 it was 5x weekly 747.

717atOGG wrote:

JakeWelty wrote:

- United B739 to IAD replaced by B752

Minor correction-the B752 is actually going to EWR, not IAD, and they did this in W17/18 too so it isn't new. IAD is 2-3x A320/737, as it always has been.

Going back to the main topic, this isn't the first time that SEA-FRA has seen the A333. LH's loads on SEA-FRA in the winter aren't great so they probably decided to either reduce frequency and keep the B744, or downgauge and stay daily, and now we know what they chose.

Actually, the United flight is for IAD. Last year it was EWR, but this time around it is indeed IAD. UA389/UA260.

The market for LH is ever changing. We saw the initial launch of SEA use an A333, then transition to an A343 and onto a B744. The winter season last year actually saw B748 service. Spring 2018 saw the occasional A333. Speculation points to LH launching the B748 or even the A388 to YVR, as this is a heavy market for LH due to Star Alliance partner AC. The LH downgauge at SEA also points to EW launching a DUS-SEA or even MUC-SEA, as CGN-SEA ended a few weeks ago.

Lufthansa Group hinted during a press event in Feb. 2018 that Seattle could see interesting carriers announcing service in the next few years (these being Swiss or Austrian). Only time will tell.

Sad to see the -47 go...I was checking availability and now the flights are quite full. So much for hitching a ride!

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

flybynight wrote:

I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

No, yesterday Oct. 28th was the first day: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/lh490

Neither is the first of anything. LH has had A333 and A343s on SEA on/off for years.

seabosdca wrote:

Seattle is still a highly, highly seasonal destination.

With the irony being that SEA is about the most yearround-stable US destination for perhaps THE most seasonal intercon carrier of them all: DE.

gunsontheroof wrote:

Blerg wrote:

flybynight wrote:

I believe today is the first day of the A333 coming to SEA over the 744/748.

I am assuming this is season and we'll likely see the bigger Boeing as summer nears again. Or perhaps a switch the bigger (than the A333) 346 or A350?

It is interesting that YVR keeps the 744 from what I can see through out the entire winter season. I guess that has a lot do with Whistler.

Could it also have something to do with AC in YVR? I suppose they get quite a few transfer passengers.

Probably more to do with winter schedule and additional SEA-Europe competition compared to last year. The 747s are probably better utilized elsewhere until next summer--I doubt LH gets much in the way of SEA-YVR-FRA pax.

Absolutely correct. Looking at the seating statistics, The three version of LH's A330's are 8F/30J/21Y+/177Y - 8F/42J/21Y+/145Y - 42J/28Y+/185Y. The 747-8 sub-fleet is even more premium heavy (8F/80J/32Y+/244Y), and it can deployed on different routes to suit seasonal requirements. SEA and LAX are premium-heaviest in the summer, hence its use elsewhere in the world in the off season. While some may debate the wisdom of LH's purchase of this mighty and eternally-in-my-eyes-forever Queen of the Skies, I think it was one of the shrewdest moves they have ever under-taken. Lufthansa knew that premium demand could vary significantly, and to choose a premium-rich layout let them tailor the needs of a market that others might call "feast or famine".

Vancouver, however, I would imagine is a Star Alliance fortress airport, and there are quite a few wealthy diaspora groups living in the area that travel frequently. Star Alliance member Lufthansa is finding that their 747-8 is getting filled enough to justify its continued year-round use at YVR, and offering more premium seats than AC can. Question: would AC and LH split the profit on this one, given the extra premium seats? I don't see why not, but someone in the know will have to update us on that.

My not-so-secret wish is to be at the gate at FRA waiting for LH flight 466 to depart for SAN (at the end of yet another fantastic trip to Europe!) only to be told there is an equipment substitution, and a 747-8 rolls up to the gate. "I'm sorry, sir, our premium economy is sold out on this one - would you mind being re-seated in business on the upper deck?"

JakeWelty wrote:

The LH downgauge at SEA also points to EW launching a DUS-SEA or even MUC-SEA, as CGN-SEA ended a few weeks ago.

The down gauge is for the winter only and EW has only operated in the summer, so I don't think this has anything to do with EW.

If EW launches DUS-SEA or MUC-SEA, it would be in the summer time when the LH flight from FRA is back to a 744.

Speaking of EW, has anyone heard of their plans for next year? I know they decided to move long-haul operations out of CGN to DUS, but if SEA was coming back via DUS next year, I think we would have heard about it now.

JakeWelty wrote:

Lufthansa Group hinted during a press event in Feb. 2018 that Seattle could see interesting carriers announcing service in the next few years (these being Swiss or Austrian). Only time will tell.

ZRH-SEA would be awesome, whether on Swiss or Edelweiss.

End of September, the weekly LH newsletter was advertising BRU-SEA flights for 275€ return during the winter. I had a quick look on LH website at the time and it seemed that this tarif was broadly available, not just for a few selected dates. I hadn't seen such a low tarif from BRU to the west coast in a long long time, even in the winter. I find it quite surrealistic considering the current fuel prices. The demand must be really low. I once paid 265€ for a BRU-NYC return (and double FF miles), but this was back in Feb 2000. This was with Sabena, and the flights were operated by the A333.

I assume that EK, VS, SQ all flying to SEA and being a DL hub, all have an impact to the connecting traffic LH can attract. YVR connecting traffic still mostly goes through YYZ/FRA so it would make sense for LH to send a larger equipment.

Kinda like LH flying A330 to DFW vs A380 to IAH.

notconcerned wrote:

I assume that EK, VS, SQ all flying to SEA and being a DL hub, all have an impact to the connecting traffic LH can attract. YVR connecting traffic still mostly goes through YYZ/FRA so it would make sense for LH to send a larger equipment.

Kinda like LH flying A330 to DFW vs A380 to IAH.

SQ is not flying to SEA yet and VS has very little in terms of onward connectivity from LHR.

VS actually is not doing very well in SEA when it comes to loads. BA is king on LHR-SEA.