The Rest of Ohio - 2019

DeltaRules · Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:11 am

Pudelhund wrote:
jplatts wrote:
There is an article titled "Editorial: Want more direct flights from CMH? Use the ones we have" that was published on the Columbus Dispatch website today, which can be found at https://www.dispatch.com/opinion/20190225/editorial-want-more-direct-flights-from-cmh-use-ones-we-have.

The chances of me flying direct to SEA with Alaska vs via DTW/MSP with Delta are next to zero. The responsibility of the Ohio customers to fill this flight are down to non-frequent flyers and new business contracts. Otherwise, the onus seems more on Alaska’s customer base in the PNW to make this a successful route. Existing business flyers in Central Ohio would have benefited a lot more if Delta had done this route.

The other side of this is you could fly DL to SEA and still support one of the new routes: SLC.

That's exactly my plan for my trip later this year to, ironically enough, the third new destination (SFO); I'm making it a point to fly via SLC at least one direction.

ChasChandler · Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:56 am

I'm scratching my head a little with some of the comments from long time CMH A-neter's. I can probably go back years and find comments from all of you about the need for west coast flights. Well, now we have them and you don't want to fly on them because they're not the right airline. SMDH, if enough people have your outlook...goodbye non-stops, hello hours spent in airports waiting for the connecting flight.

ncflyer · Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:52 am

Many people favor frequent flyer miles— which really have very little value if you think about it— over saving three hours and all the risks that go along with connection over nonstop. Personally, I don’t understand that. I’d take Alaska every time if fate is in the ballpark.

DeltaRules · Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:37 am

ChasChandler wrote:
I'm scratching my head a little with some of the comments from long time CMH A-neter's. I can probably go back years and find comments from all of you about the need for west coast flights. Well, now we have them and you don't want to fly on them because they're not the right airline. SMDH, if enough people have your outlook...goodbye non-stops, hello hours spent in airports waiting for the connecting flight.

I get that it's a double-edged sword and somewhat counter-intuitive but the other side of this, if done right, is you're supporting another one of the long-sought-and-now-held-but-needing-support routes in the process.

Without looking, I'd guess the PDEW, in order of most to least, to be CMH-SFO->SEA->SLC. It certainly defeats the purpose if you're taking DL via ATL/MSP/DTW/LAX (or any airline via hubs that aren't the nonstop) but, in my case, it's intended to put a (well, two) butt(s) in seats at least one way on CMH-SLC (and/or the reverse). The logic is a) supporting one of the new routes, b) flying into an airport (and a state, FWIW) I've never been to, and c) brand loyalty/superior product. If it gets to time to book and CMH-SFO ends up being the better option, I'll go with it.

Speaking of, CMH-SFO has already been upgauged to an A320. I'd like to think that's a positive sign.

Jshank83 · Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:03 am

DeltaRules wrote:
ChasChandler wrote:
I'm scratching my head a little with some of the comments from long time CMH A-neter's. I can probably go back years and find comments from all of you about the need for west coast flights. Well, now we have them and you don't want to fly on them because they're not the right airline. SMDH, if enough people have your outlook...goodbye non-stops, hello hours spent in airports waiting for the connecting flight.

I get that it's a double-edged sword and somewhat counter-intuitive but the other side of this, if done right, is you're supporting another one of the long-sought-and-now-held-but-needing-support routes in the process.

Without looking, I'd guess the PDEW, in order of most to least, to be CMH-SFO->SEA->SLC. It certainly defeats the purpose if you're taking DL via ATL/MSP/DTW/LAX (or any airline via hubs that aren't the nonstop) but, in my case, it's intended to put a (well, two) butt(s) in seats at least one way on CMH-SLC (and/or the reverse). The logic is a) supporting one of the new routes, b) flying into an airport (and a state, FWIW) I've never been to, and c) brand loyalty/superior product. If it gets to time to book and CMH-SFO ends up being the better option, I'll go with it.

Speaking of, CMH-SFO has already been upgauged to an A320. I'd like to think that's a positive sign.

Just to play devil's advocate. If you are flying CMH-SLC-XXX then couldn't DL just say well if we cut SLC they will fly CMH-MSP-XXX. So it doesn't really matter where you connect. Really it is start and finish that matters and if you are taking a connection over a nonstop then you aren't really helping. The O&D on SLC is what will really matter.

I admit this could be an incorrect take on it, but it is just one way I see it.

And that all said if you like DL better then take what you like. It is your life.

CMHtraveler · Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 am

I fly WN all the time. I have the credit card. I’m visiting relatives on points next month. But when it came time to take the family to Los Angeles in January, I was more than happy to support AA and take advantage of their new second CMH-LAX flight. We had a great experience. I get brand loyalty, I really do, but who wants to sit in (MDW/DEN/STL?) and add 2-3 hours to their travel just to earn a few more points? It’s more or less the same product (excluding ULCCs). I don’t think there is any “responsibility” on the part of travelers to support non-stops, but if it’s their destination I can’t see why they wouldn’t!

DeltaRules wrote:
Speaking of, CMH-SFO has already been upgauged to an A320. I'd like to think that's a positive sign.

Great news! Better late than never for UA to “discover” the potential of this route. Hopefully further future upguages and/or more frequencies are in the cards.

ncflyer · Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:14 pm

Upgraded from a ? If A319 or 737-700 then that’s good. If 737-800 or -900, that’s really a downgrade, or I suppose you could say neutral. Slightly fewer seats and smaller first class cabin on the airbus according to seatguru.

Jshank83 · Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:08 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Upgraded from a ? If A319 or 737-700 then that’s good. If 737-800 or -900, that’s really a downgrade, or I suppose you could say neutral. Slightly fewer seats and smaller first class cabin on the airbus according to seatguru.

It was announced as a 319

Midwestindy · Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:34 pm

I think you guys are underestimating how strong AS is, they have been successful on all the new mid-cons they have started from SEA. Plus, they are larger than DL on SEA-MKE/IND/BNA/MCI all similar markets to CMH. No reason to think CMH-SEA wouldn't work especially without competition.

SLC and SFO seem like they should do perfectly fine as well considering how DL and UA have performed on their new routes from both locations.

tphuang · Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:02 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
ChasChandler wrote:
I'm scratching my head a little with some of the comments from long time CMH A-neter's. I can probably go back years and find comments from all of you about the need for west coast flights. Well, now we have them and you don't want to fly on them because they're not the right airline. SMDH, if enough people have your outlook...goodbye non-stops, hello hours spent in airports waiting for the connecting flight.

I get that it's a double-edged sword and somewhat counter-intuitive but the other side of this, if done right, is you're supporting another one of the long-sought-and-now-held-but-needing-support routes in the process.

Without looking, I'd guess the PDEW, in order of most to least, to be CMH-SFO->SEA->SLC. It certainly defeats the purpose if you're taking DL via ATL/MSP/DTW/LAX (or any airline via hubs that aren't the nonstop) but, in my case, it's intended to put a (well, two) butt(s) in seats at least one way on CMH-SLC (and/or the reverse). The logic is a) supporting one of the new routes, b) flying into an airport (and a state, FWIW) I've never been to, and c) brand loyalty/superior product. If it gets to time to book and CMH-SFO ends up being the better option, I'll go with it.

Speaking of, CMH-SFO has already been upgauged to an A320. I'd like to think that's a positive sign.

This is exactly the kind of logic that has caused DAB to loose their daily flight to JFK. And no, a once weekly flight on AA doesn't make up for the loss. I find it hard to believe that 36 inch FC seat on DL is better than the 41 inch FC seat on AS.

CMHtraveler · Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:58 pm

From today’s Enilria OAG thread:

AA CMH-MIA MAY 3>4[3] JUN 3>4[3]

AA’s recent growth continues. Unfortunately, a dummy booking in June shows the fourth frequency also scheduled as an Envoy ERJ-145. I know the MIA flight is all about connections so frequency matters, but that’s a long couple of hours squished in a 145! I’d trade that fourth frequency for a 175 on one of the existing three flights in a heartbeat.

DeltaRules · Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:20 pm

CMHtraveler wrote:
From today’s Enilria OAG thread:

AA CMH-MIA MAY 3>4[3] JUN 3>4[3]

AA’s recent growth continues. Unfortunately, a dummy booking in June shows the fourth frequency also scheduled as an Envoy ERJ-145. I know the MIA flight is all about connections so frequency matters, but that’s a long couple of hours squished in a 145! I’d trade that fourth frequency for a 175 on one of the existing three flights in a heartbeat.

Said before, will say again: I can't believe with all the E175 ops out of MIA that they don't use one of the frequencies to rotate planes in and out of MX at CMH.

flycmh2009 · Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:46 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
CMHtraveler wrote:
From today’s Enilria OAG thread:

AA CMH-MIA MAY 3>4[3] JUN 3>4[3]

AA’s recent growth continues. Unfortunately, a dummy booking in June shows the fourth frequency also scheduled as an Envoy ERJ-145. I know the MIA flight is all about connections so frequency matters, but that’s a long couple of hours squished in a 145! I’d trade that fourth frequency for a 175 on one of the existing three flights in a heartbeat.

Said before, will say again: I can't believe with all the E175 ops out of MIA that they don't use one of the frequencies to rotate planes in and out of MX at CMH.

Ditto. That's past my threshold for endurance on a 50-seater. Recently, I spoke with an Envoy FA out of ORD who said they were going to be getting all the AA Compass 175's to replace the CRJ-700s (going to PSA). I assume that means they're going to continue deploying them in ORD, but it'd be really nice to see some of them move to MIA

StuckinCMHland · Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
ChasChandler wrote:
I'm scratching my head a little with some of the comments from long time CMH A-neter's. I can probably go back years and find comments from all of you about the need for west coast flights. Well, now we have them and you don't want to fly on them because they're not the right airline. SMDH, if enough people have your outlook...goodbye non-stops, hello hours spent in airports waiting for the connecting flight.

I get that it's a double-edged sword and somewhat counter-intuitive but the other side of this, if done right, is you're supporting another one of the long-sought-and-now-held-but-needing-support routes in the process.

Without looking, I'd guess the PDEW, in order of most to least, to be CMH-SFO->SEA->SLC. It certainly defeats the purpose if you're taking DL via ATL/MSP/DTW/LAX (or any airline via hubs that aren't the nonstop) but, in my case, it's intended to put a (well, two) butt(s) in seats at least one way on CMH-SLC (and/or the reverse). The logic is a) supporting one of the new routes, b) flying into an airport (and a state, FWIW) I've never been to, and c) brand loyalty/superior product. If it gets to time to book and CMH-SFO ends up being the better option, I'll go with it.

Speaking of, CMH-SFO has already been upgauged to an A320. I'd like to think that's a positive sign.

This is exactly the kind of logic that has caused DAB to loose their daily flight to JFK. And no, a once weekly flight on AA doesn't make up for the loss. I find it hard to believe that 36 inch FC seat on DL is better than the 41 inch FC seat on AS.

Well, if you could get a direct flight to DAB from CMH (and not Sanford) I'd fly it all the time!!!!! :highfive:

jplatts · Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
This is exactly the kind of logic that has caused DAB to loose their daily flight to JFK. And no, a once weekly flight on AA doesn't make up for the loss. I find it hard to believe that 36 inch FC seat on DL is better than the 41 inch FC seat on AS.

One big difference between DL and AS is that DL serves international destinations in Asia, Europe, Africa, Australia, and South America, whereas AS only serves destinations in the contiguous United States, Alaska, Hawaii, Western Canada, Mexico, and Costa Rica.

Another big difference between DL and AS is that DL serves many smaller regional destinations in the Mountain West, the Upper Midwest, the Northeast, and the South that aren't served by AS.

There are also a few large markets in the contiguous U.S. such as CLT, CVG, and CLE that aren't currently served by AS.

While there are many regional destinations in the U.S. that are served by DL but not by AS, AS does serve some regional destinations in Alaska, Washington State, and California that aren't currently served by DL.

While the 41" FC seat on AS is better than the 36" FC seat on DL, some travelers actually need to connect to destinations that aren't served by AS from CMH, and DL already offers 1-stop connections to many destinations not served by AS from CMH.

DeltaRules · Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:13 am

CRAA Board Minutes for March are up: https://columbusairports.com/storage/pr ... 032619.pdf

Notes:
-Europe and additional West Coast flights are the goals for 2019. Sounds like they're going to work the Statehouse for more revenue guarantees.
-LCK hosted Cathay Pacific's annual meetings.
-AA, DL, WN, UA posted gains (UA at 20.2%). NK up 177.8% YOY from last year, which could be because they only had half a month to work with in Feb 2018.
-AC, F9, and G4 posted losses.

CMHtraveler · Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:11 am

DeltaRules wrote:
CRAA Board Minutes for March are up:

I recall that G4 was planning to make some temporary reductions at LCK due to aircraft shortage during the transition to an all airbus fleet. Does this explain their lower numbers after who knows how many straight months of growth?

Also, for the third straight month we are left to scratch our heads at what the special sauce is for UA! 20% growth is very, very impressive without adding any new routes (until June).

DeltaRules · Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:43 pm

Tangentially related to this thread, FI dropped CLE, meaning Ohio is down to DL's CVG-CDG as the only TATL flight. Again.

CMHtraveler wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
CRAA Board Minutes for March are up:

I recall that G4 was planning to make some temporary reductions at LCK due to aircraft shortage during the transition to an all airbus fleet. Does this explain their lower numbers after who knows how many straight months of growth?

Also, for the third straight month we are left to scratch our heads at what the special sauce is for UA! 20% growth is very, very impressive without adding any new routes (until June).

LCK-AUS and -MSY were the temporary suspensions and I'm guessing you're right and that could play into it. MSY used to be a Feb-May route, IIRC.

Cvgspotter15 · Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:39 pm

Just realized no one had posted about this:

CVG January Stats:
Passenger Traffic up: 4.48% (YOY)
Aircraft Operations up: 2.97%
Cargo (Air Express) up: 8.30%

CVG February Stats:
Passenger: 3.81%
Aircraft Operations: .1%
Cargo (Air Express): -1.65%

Slow growth as expected as we haven't seen an announcement in awhile, just slow capacity increases from airlines like American, Delta, and United. What could be the next expansion we see?

jplatts · Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:55 pm

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Slow growth as expected as we haven't seen an announcement in awhile, just slow capacity increases from airlines like American, Delta, and United. What could be the next expansion we see?

AS adding CVG-SEA nonstop service
AA adding CVG-LAX and CVG-PHX nonstop service
WN extending CVG-PHX nonstop service to year-round
WN adding new nonstop routes out of CVG such as CVG-FLL, CVG-HOU, CVG-LAS, CVG-BNA, and CVG-TPA
BA, EI, or FI adding transatlantic service to CVG

jbmitt · Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:00 pm

jplatts wrote:
Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Slow growth as expected as we haven't seen an announcement in awhile, just slow capacity increases from airlines like American, Delta, and United. What could be the next expansion we see?

AS adding CVG-SEA nonstop service
AA adding CVG-LAX and CVG-PHX nonstop service
WN extending CVG-PHX nonstop service to year-round
WN adding new nonstop routes out of CVG such as CVG-FLL, CVG-HOU, CVG-LAS, CVG-BNA, and CVG-TPA
BA, EI, or FI adding transatlantic service to CVG

No CVG-DAL on WN? I've literally seen you post that 50x on here.

cvgComair · Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:55 pm

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
Just realized no one had posted about this:

CVG January Stats:
Passenger Traffic up: 4.48% (YOY)
Aircraft Operations up: 2.97%
Cargo (Air Express) up: 8.30%

CVG February Stats:
Passenger: 3.81%
Aircraft Operations: .1%
Cargo (Air Express): -1.65%

Slow growth as expected as we haven't seen an announcement in awhile, just slow capacity increases from airlines like American, Delta, and United. What could be the next expansion we see?

I would imagine growth will be pretty flat over the next few year, but I think it is likely NK will come to CVG within the next 2-3 years. B6/SY will probably eventually give CVG a try, but not anytime soon. I personally don't see AS coming to CVG, but I would love to be proven wrong.

I think AA will grow like UA has these last few years, adding some more mainline and filling in one or both of the missing west coast hubs.

I don't expect much from F9 or G4, and WN will eventually expand here, but its definitely going to be slow and gradual adds.

DL will probably maintain the trajectory of gradual growth. If they continue on the cutting of connections, I don't see some of the lower yield routes like STL/ORD/YYZ (maybe PHL/CLT) hanging on long-term. That might change if routes like MEM/MKE/RIC were ever brought back, but I think we are headed for all the DL CRJ-200s being eliminated at CVG, and with them, any route that can't sustain the CR7/9. Routes to MSY/SAN seem like possibilities in the next year or so, with JAX/SAT/PDX/MIA being possible in the long-term. Besides that, pretty much all the longer/hub routes will probably shift to mainline.

As for international, we have the numbers for another route, but it remains to be seen if and who is actually interested.

StuckinCMHland · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:03 pm

Just curious... since nobody posted in a couple of days:

Did WN or anyone else fly Max-8's into CMH or DAY? Did anyone ride on one of those planes?

cvgComair · Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:18 pm

I noticed yesterday that Frontier was using WOW's old gate (B9) for a domestic departure (PUJ-CVG-DEN). I'm not sure if they have been doing this for awhile, but I had never personally seen another carrier run a domestic departure from the DL international side of B.

StuckinCMHland wrote:
Just curious... since nobody posted in a couple of days:

Did WN or anyone else fly Max-8's into CMH or DAY? Did anyone ride on one of those planes?

WN didn't have the MAX 8s when they were flying at DAY (ended ops June '17, MAX came Oct '17). CVG had the MAX come through at least a dozen times during the fall '17/early '18 and I would imagine they also visited CMH. When WN first put them in service, WN scheduled many different routes across the system for crew familiarization.

DeltaRules · Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:07 am

cvgComair wrote:
I noticed yesterday that Frontier was using WOW's old gate (B9) for a domestic departure (PUJ-CVG-DEN). I'm not sure if they have been doing this for awhile, but I had never personally seen another carrier run a domestic departure from the DL international side of B.

StuckinCMHland wrote:
Just curious... since nobody posted in a couple of days:

Did WN or anyone else fly Max-8's into CMH or DAY? Did anyone ride on one of those planes?

WN didn't have the MAX 8s when they were flying at DAY (ended ops June '17, MAX came Oct '17). CVG had the MAX come through at least a dozen times during the fall '17/early '18 and I would imagine they also visited CMH. When WN first put them in service, WN scheduled many different routes across the system for crew familiarization.

WN used Max-8s on CMH-MCO (or the reverse, or both, can't remember) right after they got them. I was surprised to see them a) here and b) on the route.

flycmh2009 · Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:59 am

StuckinCMHland wrote:
Just curious... since nobody posted in a couple of days:

Did WN or anyone else fly Max-8's into CMH or DAY? Did anyone ride on one of those planes?

They ran a good handful of routes out of CMH. I hitched a ride a couple times myself, as recently as mid-February, CMH-HOU.

CMHtraveler · Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:30 am

flycmh2009 wrote:
StuckinCMHland wrote:
Just curious... since nobody posted in a couple of days:

Did WN or anyone else fly Max-8's into CMH or DAY? Did anyone ride on one of those planes?

They ran a good handful of routes out of CMH. I hitched a ride a couple times myself, as recently as mid-February, CMH-HOU.

I also flew CMH-HOU on the MAX in February, they seemed to be on that route regularly. The particular aircraft assigned the day I was on it was so new that we couldn’t use the wi-fi, because it wasn’t certified yet. The new plane smell obviously made an impression because my 7 year old niece, a WN veteran at this point, declared that we flew “first class” lol. Nice aircraft from a pax perspective.

F9trvlr · Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:06 pm

cvgComair wrote:
I noticed yesterday that Frontier was using WOW's old gate (B9) for a domestic departure (PUJ-CVG-DEN). I'm not sure if they have been doing this for awhile, but I had never personally seen another carrier run a domestic departure from the DL international side of B.

It's just for inbound international arrivals that depart domestic; that way the aircraft does not have to be taxied or towed to A. Started back in December.

flyPIT · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:39 pm

"AirBridgeCargo adds second flight to Rickenbacker"
https://www.aircargoweek.com/airbridgecargo-adds-second-flight-to-rickenbacker/

DeltaRules · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:48 pm

flyPIT wrote:
"AirBridgeCargo adds second flight to Rickenbacker"
https://www.aircargoweek.com/airbridgecargo-adds-second-flight-to-rickenbacker/

Man, they've barely been here a year. Great to see another cargo flight stick!

NoTime · Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:58 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
"AirBridgeCargo adds second flight to Rickenbacker"
https://www.aircargoweek.com/airbridgecargo-adds-second-flight-to-rickenbacker/

Man, they've barely been here a year. Great to see another cargo flight stick!

Yep, that's awesome. There's a decent collection of wide-bodies tooling around down there these days. I hope the trend continues.

Hey Amazon, it's not too late to skip out on CVG and head northeast a little ways! :duck:

cvgComair · Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:55 pm

I'm not sure if its been mentioned here, but Amazon recently broke ground on its site at CVG: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... g-hub.html

StuckinCMHland · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:39 pm

There is a fascinating thread I just saw: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1419489

If I remember right there is something like 246 US-LHR/London flights per day on average. It still boggles the mind that CMH cannot even get a once-a-week flight to LHR or even somewhere else in Europe. Now that WW folded and FL has backed out of CLE, it seems to me now is a good time to find someone willing to come to CMH.

ncflyer · Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:05 pm

As I always say, it’s not that CMH to LHR works (or fill in the blank with any unserved route), it’s that it works better than other alternatives for a $150mm+ Movable asset in to a slot controlled airport.

Someone posted on the PIT thread that r/t fares are $700 for the next couple months to LHR. I just don’t see beating down the door for that if CMH would be similar.

flyCMH · Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:27 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
"AirBridgeCargo adds second flight to Rickenbacker"
https://www.aircargoweek.com/airbridgecargo-adds-second-flight-to-rickenbacker/

Man, they've barely been here a year. Great to see another cargo flight stick!

Wow, that really is good to see. Glad they're doing well enough to continue investing in the market. Always good to see additional activity at LCK.

Also, a fun "this day in history" from the Dispatch: Skybus folded 11 years ago today:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190404/ ... f-business

Midwestindy · Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:28 pm

StuckinCMHland wrote:
There is a fascinating thread I just saw: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1419489

If I remember right there is something like 246 US-LHR/London flights per day on average. It still boggles the mind that CMH cannot even get a once-a-week flight to LHR or even somewhere else in Europe. Now that WW folded and FL has backed out of CLE, it seems to me now is a good time to find someone willing to come to CMH.

It'll happen eventually.....

https://www.columbusceo.com/business/20 ... ct-flights
“I think people think air service development is like, ‘Let’s get this flight.’ No. It’s a constant conversation with the airlines,” says Nardone. “I went in March to see British Airways, I went to Asia to see some airlines. You’ve got to work it all the time.”

Even though DL/BA are looking into it, I think it will be more likely to be an airline like EI who tries it out first.

I think 3-4x weekly on EI would be ideal for the size of the market

cvgComair · Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:20 pm

F9 ATL-CVG AUG 0.2>0.4[0.7] SEP 0>0.4[0.6] OCT 0>0.5[0.6]
F9 AUS-CVG SEP 0>0.3[0.4] OCT 0>0.3[0.4]
F9 CVG-DEN AUG 0.4>1.1[1.0]
F9 CVG-JAX AUG 0.1>0.3[0.5] SEP 0>0.3[0.6] OCT 0>0.3[0.6]
F9 CVG-LAS AUG 0.4>1.0[1.0]
F9 CVG-LGA AUG 0.4>1.0[1.0]
F9 CVG-MCO AUG 0.4>1.1[1.3] SEP 0>1.1[1.4] OCT 0>1.1[1.4]
F9 CVG-MSP AUG 0.2>0.4[0.4] SEP 0>0.4[0.3] OCT 0>0.4[0.3]
F9 CVG-PHL AUG 0.2>0.4[0.2] SEP 0>0.4[0] OCT 0>0.5[0]
F9 CVG-PHX AUG 0.1>0.4[0.2] SEP 0>0.4[0] OCT 0>0.4[0]
F9 CVG-RDU SEP 0>0.4[0.3] OCT 0>0.5[0.3]
F9 CVG-RSW AUG 0.2>0.5[0.6] SEP 0>0.4[0.6] OCT 0>0.5[0.6]
F9 CVG-SAN AUG 0.1>0.3[0.4]
F9 CVG-SFO AUG 0.2>0.4[0] SEP 0>0.4[0] OCT 0>0.5[0]
F9 CVG-TPA AUG 0.2>0.6[0.5] SEP 0>0.6[0.4] OCT 0>0.7[0.4]

Looks like a few off-season increases on a few routes. That combined with all A320s should help reduce the decline F9 has been having recently. I am hoping with higher LFs, overall pax numbers will be about the same.

cvgComair · Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:26 pm

Just added it up and F9 is down 8.7% for the fall in seats. Given that some routes had pretty low load factors, I think most of the drop in seats will be made up by increased loads.

CMHtraveler · Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:21 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Just added it up and F9 is down 8.7% for the fall in seats. Given that some routes had pretty low load factors, I think most of the drop in seats will be made up by increased loads.

I hope they have a better strategy at CVG than whatever it is they’re doing at CMH. Down to less than daily flights to DEN and MCO, a few seasonal dartboard routes, and now deciding to compete with DL to RDU? :boggled:

DeltaRules · Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:31 pm

Take it for what it's worth, but here's a tidbit from the thread regarding the big announcement B6 has for this week.:

"Blueknows wrote:
Stop with this Midwest stuff. B6 is going to add BOS flights to Midwest in future. B6 does not have HUBS. They have focus cities and run point to point service. They’ve said bos-cmh/cvg but not this year."

boscmh · Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:50 pm

My enthusiasm for a B6 return to CMH wanes with each passing year. If and when they eventually come back, what will we get? BOS? and potentially FLL? Big whoop

Almost every new add we've gotten the last few years has been more useful and more exciting than either of those two. Happy to have them back if possible, but they've waited so long now to enter these midwest markets that I'm beginning to not see a point

SgtBarone · Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:14 pm

Updated figures for CAK from the airport's website:

- 2018 total passengers: 920,002 (-27.3% YOY)
- January 2019 total passengers: 64,042 (-14.3% YOY)

jplatts · Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:09 pm

There was an article in the Dayton Daily News that said that "Allegiant flights from the Dayton International Airport aren’t likely to continue operating year-round, according to the airline", and that article can be found at https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/here-why-you-can-book-allegiant-flights-from-dayton-punta-gorda-pass-this-month/4ByBXRjbUZKbh22Rfg6hHO/.

SkyVoice · Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:02 am

SgtBarone wrote:
Updated figures for CAK from the airport's website:

- 2018 total passengers: 920,002 (-27.3% YOY)
- January 2019 total passengers: 64,042 (-14.3% YOY)

I'm sorry to see that news, Sarge. I have made numerous VFR flights over the years to visit my people in Akron, Norton & Wadsworth. I always preferred flying in & out of CAK vs. CLE, even though fares to CLE were usually cheaper, mainly due to "the WN effect". It seems to me that CAK may be going down the same path as MKG. That aerodrome is down to twice-a-day EAS service to ORD. Hang in there, CAK!

DeltaRules · Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:06 pm

jplatts wrote:
There was an article in the Dayton Daily News that said that "Allegiant flights from the Dayton International Airport aren’t likely to continue operating year-round, according to the airline", and that article can be found at https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/here-why-you-can-book-allegiant-flights-from-dayton-punta-gorda-pass-this-month/4ByBXRjbUZKbh22Rfg6hHO/.

That's disappointing, but I wonder if these are standard seasonal cuts as G4 tends to have. What I find amazing, though, is that Wikipedia seems to list DAY-SFB as a seasonal route already.

ILNFlyer · Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:39 pm

cvgComair wrote:
I'm not sure if its been mentioned here, but Amazon recently broke ground on its site at CVG: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... g-hub.html

I do not understand why they are going to have 2 hubs, ILN and CVG, so close to each other. Does anyone get that? makes no sense for them t0 put $90M into ILN just to turn around and spend horrid amounts of money at CVG for the same type of operation.

DeltaRules · Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:42 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
I'm not sure if its been mentioned here, but Amazon recently broke ground on its site at CVG: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... g-hub.html

I do not understand why they are going to have 2 hubs, ILN and CVG, so close to each other. Does anyone get that? makes no sense for them t0 put $90M into ILN just to turn around and spend horrid amounts of money at CVG for the same type of operation.

Day and night sorts? That's the rumbling I'd heard.

ILNFlyer · Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:45 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
I'm not sure if its been mentioned here, but Amazon recently broke ground on its site at CVG: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... g-hub.html

I do not understand why they are going to have 2 hubs, ILN and CVG, so close to each other. Does anyone get that? makes no sense for them t0 put $90M into ILN just to turn around and spend horrid amounts of money at CVG for the same type of operation.

Day and night sorts? That's the rumbling I'd heard.

CVG is certainly large enough to run 24 hours. ILN is about 1 million sq ft of sort space.

ncflyer · Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:22 pm

I’ll take this discussion to the cleveland thread but the drop in CAK is good for CLE and therefore good for the region. More critical mass to present to airlines that can offer new flights. CAK won’t be able to attract unique destinations but CLE might be able to.

cvgComair · Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:22 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
I'm not sure if its been mentioned here, but Amazon recently broke ground on its site at CVG: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... g-hub.html

I do not understand why they are going to have 2 hubs, ILN and CVG, so close to each other. Does anyone get that? makes no sense for them t0 put $90M into ILN just to turn around and spend horrid amounts of money at CVG for the same type of operation.

ILN is for relief until CVG opens. Phase 1 of CVG opens in 2021, but we are 5-8 years away from the full opening, which will be massive. Phase 1 has 100 parking spaces, with the remaining land more than adequate for 100-200 more. They can’t open up that type of operation overnight, which is why they need ILN build up everything. $90M is a drop in the bucket compared to the billions they are spending at CVG.

I would imagine they haven’t decided what ILN will be long term once all of CVG is open.

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