tys777
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:32 am

USAirKid wrote:
ottergoose wrote:
tys777 wrote:
UPS and USPS service is a mess as well. I got a blizzard 3 weeks ago that is still jacking with my service. Lots of prime shipments that are taking 4 days to make it from the MSP distribution center to me two hours north in DLH. Meanehile, my target 2 day shipments are running fine. Heck, hasn't snowed in a week and somehow my mail didn't make it to me yesterday.


Surprises me that DLH doesn't get any regular air freight larger than a FedEx Feeder ATR, but RST warrants that plus three 757s (I'm sure Mayo generates a lot of Express, but that's still wild).

Does Amazon have some sort of distribution relay center up that way to funnel deliveries up from MSP?


I wonder if the feeder is for the First Overnight packages and the rest of it is trucked in from MSP. It’s close enough of a drive that all but the FO packages would make it in time when sorted via MSP.


I dont want to get too off topic less I have to delete my own post, but I've gotten plenty of two day packages via the feeder flight. The first overnight sometimes struggle to make it in time as the flight usually doesnt land until close to 9am. I had a guaranteed by 10am shipmont coming to me that appeared to take a one off Louisville to DLH flight

When it comes to the Amazon packages I get, most are USPS or UPS ground from that Shakopee distribution center. Peak has seen a ton of UPS being used up here. I'm assuming an amazon trailer brings the USPS up here, but I've never seen them, but I know that they dont enter the USPS system until they get here. I also assume trailer capacity this far north is pretty limited and UPS gets the supplemental business regularly.

It's rare that I get something that touches prime air. Most of my packages that originate from out of state get put on next day air.
 
TXRoadMan
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:24 am

wjcandee wrote:

Interesting! Thanks for that.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:44 am

tys777 wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
ottergoose wrote:

Surprises me that DLH doesn't get any regular air freight larger than a FedEx Feeder ATR, but RST warrants that plus three 757s (I'm sure Mayo generates a lot of Express, but that's still wild).

Does Amazon have some sort of distribution relay center up that way to funnel deliveries up from MSP?


I wonder if the feeder is for the First Overnight packages and the rest of it is trucked in from MSP. It’s close enough of a drive that all but the FO packages would make it in time when sorted via MSP.


I dont want to get too off topic less I have to delete my own post, but I've gotten plenty of two day packages via the feeder flight. The first overnight sometimes struggle to make it in time as the flight usually doesnt land until close to 9am. I had a guaranteed by 10am shipmont coming to me that appeared to take a one off Louisville to DLH flight

When it comes to the Amazon packages I get, most are USPS or UPS ground from that Shakopee distribution center. Peak has seen a ton of UPS being used up here. I'm assuming an amazon trailer brings the USPS up here, but I've never seen them, but I know that they dont enter the USPS system until they get here. I also assume trailer capacity this far north is pretty limited and UPS gets the supplemental business regularly.

It's rare that I get something that touches prime air. Most of my packages that originate from out of state get put on next day air.


At my location, I have been getting a lot of USPS lately. Also, ever since Amazon started their One-Day shipping initiative, I have been getting more UPS than I have been in the past (some Ground from the local fulfillment centers, and one Next Day Air from New Jersey). However, one carrier that is now rare for me is OnTrac. I know in parts of the Phoenix area they were the #2 carrier behind AMZL for Amazon shipments (particularly in parts of the West Valley). I wonder if that is still the case or not. USPS remains the #2 carrier overall to my location in terms of frequency behind AMZL, although UPS is more common than in the past. FedEx has never been commonly used by Amazon to my location (I only got them once via a paid upgrade to One-Day shipping back in 2017).
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Acey559
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:52 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Acey559 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Pay isn’t great, a big chunk of the pilot group is from MSP and prefers day trips, which won’t continue with this kind of flying. Terrible commuting rules, terrible reserve, etc. They’ve been hiring for quite a while, yet their attrition has been outpacing hiring for months.

Quite simply, with the hiring going on at the big 3 + WN/B6, there is simply no reason to go to these low end cargo/passenger carriers for most pilots.


Not to guide the thread in the wrong direction, but I was getting near constant emails from SY about interviewing there. They apparently recently upped first year pay and are now paying for hotel rooms while in training (crazy that wasn’t done before but I guess there are others that don’t as well). Not sure how far it will go to further recruiting efforts, but it hints at the recognition of needing something better. And hindsight also provides a little glimpse as to why they were recruiting so aggressively. I bet they were trying to front-load classes so they can jump right into the AMZ operation when the planes come.


It's a start, but my understanding is their net recruiting has left them losing pilots since the summer, not what I imagine they had in mind.


Not surprising. With everyone hiring including that “other” airline with a hub at MSP, it’s not just the regionals hunting for pilots. I hope this allows SY pilots to secure a nice new contract whenever they are due. I always had a soft spot for them because they fly all our Honor Flights out of MLI. I used to work ramp there in college and was able to see my grandpa off when he went on his. Anywho, back to the AMZ empire..... :D
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:49 am

And N276DH finally did a test flight MEX-MEX today (12/18/19), for over 2 hours. Been in MEX, actually undergoing conversion, for 9.3 months. (MEX is IAI/Bedek's second 767-300 conversion line, at Mexicana MRO. It does one aircraft at a time.)

Unreal. Love to hear that story someday.

In any event, its completion opens a spot at MEX and may take some pressure off TLV, which is still seeing strong 767-300 freighter demand. CAM currently has four aircraft at TLV for Amazon and others. In the first six months of 2020, we should see redeliveries from TLV in roughly mid-January, mid-February, mid-March, mid-June. Figure paint and EIS taking about 7 weeks from then for each. And we should see the 2 ex-ANA Cargo BCFs for UPS delivered in that time period as well.

I would also expect 360CM and 409AZ to go for paint in that time frame as well. (409 will need to go back in the shop for a few more weeks before they will complete the paperwork to officially lease it to Amazon. Right now, it's out flying Peak because everybody needs lift and ATI has the pilots to crew it.)
 
HPRamper
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:09 am

USAirKid wrote:
ottergoose wrote:
tys777 wrote:
UPS and USPS service is a mess as well. I got a blizzard 3 weeks ago that is still jacking with my service. Lots of prime shipments that are taking 4 days to make it from the MSP distribution center to me two hours north in DLH. Meanehile, my target 2 day shipments are running fine. Heck, hasn't snowed in a week and somehow my mail didn't make it to me yesterday.


Surprises me that DLH doesn't get any regular air freight larger than a FedEx Feeder ATR, but RST warrants that plus three 757s (I'm sure Mayo generates a lot of Express, but that's still wild).

Does Amazon have some sort of distribution relay center up that way to funnel deliveries up from MSP?


I wonder if the feeder is for the First Overnight packages and the rest of it is trucked in from MSP. It’s close enough of a drive that all but the FO packages would make it in time when sorted via MSP.

For FX, anything overnight (PO and FO) goes on the feeder in the morning. 2-3 Day go on a truck up after the evening sort. It's not an exceptionally long drive, but weather and traffic through the downtowns is really unpredictable, enough that they won't risk service trucking the expensive overnight stuff. Then there's also the Hibbing outstation which has to be trucked separately from DLH once that freight arrives. Upstate has a lot of room to cover.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:20 pm

And N276DH is finally on its way to CKS today (12/19/19).
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:08 pm

wjcandee wrote:
On another note, do your sources have any info on what's up with N276DH, which is being converted by IAI in MEX? It has been there 9 months plus 10 days, more than double the time it was taking them to do other conversions at MEX. It looked like it was finally moving around the airport 2 months ago, I assumed for paint, and yet it still sits. Damaged in conversion? Maintenance record difficulties? Latent defects discovered requiring engineering and approvals? Its pedigree isn't particularly hideous, not nearly as sketchy as some of the other 767 conversions we have seen in the past 3 years, so I'm curious what the source is of the delay.


N276DH is finally getting to Kalitta today, currently airborne on last leg of MEX-YIP-OSC delivery flight. Any info on what livery it ended up wearing (would guess full DHL or the split Kalitta/DHL combo) would be most appreciated.
 
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ottergoose
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:38 pm

ottergoose wrote:
N276DH is finally getting to Kalitta today, currently airborne on last leg of MEX-YIP-OSC delivery flight. Any info on what livery it ended up wearing (would guess full DHL or the split Kalitta/DHL combo) would be most appreciated.


First, apologies to wjcandee for the repetitive post - I hadn't clicked onto page 2 to see you'd already posted that they were flying today!

Second, to answer my own question, I can confirm N276DH is in the full yellow DHL colors - hopefully we get a visit from them soon at MSP!
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:08 am

wjcandee wrote:
And N276DH is finally on its way to CKS today (12/19/19).



Yes, signed for (leased from DHL) on 12/16.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:51 am

ottergoose wrote:
ottergoose wrote:
N276DH is finally getting to Kalitta today, currently airborne on last leg of MEX-YIP-OSC delivery flight. Any info on what livery it ended up wearing (would guess full DHL or the split Kalitta/DHL combo) would be most appreciated.


First, apologies to wjcandee for the repetitive post - I hadn't clicked onto page 2 to see you'd already posted that they were flying today!

Second, to answer my own question, I can confirm N276DH is in the full yellow DHL colors - hopefully we get a visit from them soon at MSP!


No problem -- we both were pleased by the news and wanted to share it!

Interesting that it's flying in the full DHL colors -- thanks for confirming that!!

Now if only someone had the skinny on why it took so long. Could be many things, which is why it is intriguing. Longest time in conversion of any for Amazon or DHL in recent memory. And they got working on it right away -- I saw pictures when they started. Perhaps because they can only fit one widebody at a time in the Mexicana hangar, they seem to bring them to MEX basically one at a time.
 
Allee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:31 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Interesting that it's flying in the full DHL colors -- thanks for confirming that!!
.


If DHL owns the aircraft, then the aircraft receives full DHL colours. So that's why Kalitta's N739DH, N284DH and N276DH are in full yellow, whereas N760CK-N765CK are all-white or co-branded.

Same applies to the new-build 777s DHL is receiving.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:54 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Allee!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:49 am

N409AZ, formerly DL's N1501P, ran well for a few days after being pressed quickly into service after conversion. She even flew to Alaska. However, on Thursday, she diverted to PHX while en-route to CVG from SCK, and has been at PHX since. She has made a couple of test flights PHX-PHX, not going above 10,000 feet each time. I guess she still needs a little more work before going back into service.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:05 pm

There are two things happening with Bremerton's airport which are of interest. First there are serious state efforts to ensure there will be a reliever airport for SEATAC. Bremerton remains the only one with easily available large tracts of land and no major political objections (they could emerge, but not successfully in my opinion). The cross Puget Sound links are problematical. Second, not rumor but few details, serious discussions for a large distribution center is in the early planning stages by the Port. No one is saying this is a 2 plus 2 =s 4, because it may be apples and oranges. Those of us here in Kitsap county are intrigued and will be watching.
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MajMattMason
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:22 pm

Bain Capital to invest in Titan leasing.

What does this mean for the Atlas/Amazon relationship??

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/bain- ... asing-unit
 
MajMattMason
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:27 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
There are two things happening with Bremerton's airport which are of interest. First there are serious state efforts to ensure there will be a reliever airport for SEATAC. Bremerton remains the only one with easily available large tracts of land and no major political objections (they could emerge, but not successfully in my opinion). The cross Puget Sound links are problematical. Second, not rumor but few details, serious discussions for a large distribution center is in the early planning stages by the Port. No one is saying this is a 2 plus 2 =s 4, because it may be apples and oranges. Those of us here in Kitsap county are intrigued and will be watching.


Is there any discussion about lengthening the runway? 6000 feet??
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:45 pm

MajMattMason wrote:
Bain Capital to invest in Titan leasing.

What does this mean for the Atlas/Amazon relationship??

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/bain- ... asing-unit


Probably nothing because it's unlikely that Amazon will be seeking to lease more aircraft from Titan/Andromeda. That Bain is putting money into Titan in particular reflects an understanding/expectation that that segment of the business is and will likely remain profitable and a potential source of expansion.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:08 pm

MajMattMason wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
There are two things happening with Bremerton's airport which are of interest. First there are serious state efforts to ensure there will be a reliever airport for SEATAC. Bremerton remains the only one with easily available large tracts of land and no major political objections (they could emerge, but not successfully in my opinion). The cross Puget Sound links are problematical. Second, not rumor but few details, serious discussions for a large distribution center is in the early planning stages by the Port. No one is saying this is a 2 plus 2 =s 4, because it may be apples and oranges. Those of us here in Kitsap county are intrigued and will be watching.


Is there any discussion about lengthening the runway? 6000 feet??



I am told there is considerable room now to lengthen the runway. The state and county need to ensure that this remains true, I believe that much of it is zoned (tax wise) timberland. Much of the land east and north of the airport also belongs to the Port of Bremerton, and is developed as such. There is also some preliminary planning for a racing track.
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wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:15 pm

So N409AZ seems still to be on the ground at PHX after a couple of test flights on Friday and Saturday. So I guess she needs a little more work. She tried to jump in and help with Peak, which was admirable.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:55 pm

And Happy Holidays to everyone who participates in this thread! I have truly-enjoyed our back and forth this year!
 
travaz
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:58 am

wjcandee wrote:
And Happy Holidays to everyone who participates in this thread! I have truly-enjoyed our back and forth this year!


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

I truly enjoy all of your good info!
 
fify
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:26 am

wjcandee wrote:
And Happy Holidays to everyone who participates in this thread! I have truly-enjoyed our back and forth this year!

From Romania I wish everyone Happy Holidays! :champagne: :airplane:
 
MO11
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:29 pm

CAM signed for N384AA on Monday
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:08 pm

One of my favorite threads. Thanks all.
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:32 am

After what 3 1/2 weeks peak shipping is what 90% done. Or completely done?? wow
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Delta28L
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:48 am

sunking737 wrote:
After what 3 1/2 weeks peak shipping is what 90% done. Or completely done?? wow


They gotta fly all the returns back from customers who order the wrong item. It was always busy for a few days after Xmas due to returns at my station.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:13 am

Yep. Peak lasts well into January. You get returns, and you get vendors shipping replacements for the returns.

This year was by far the largest e-commerce holiday period ever, according to early reports. (So good, in fact, that Walmart failed to get me numerous freaking gifts by when they said they would -- 12/24 my butt, it's now coming 12/27; yes I said I would avoid them bc they started Peak wobbly, but I got suckered by some great deals on things for people and didn't think they would "guarantee" anything they couldn't deliver on. Wrong. In contrast, Amazon did not overpromise -- they learned that lesson years ago. Apparently, there was an explosion of online shopping on the final weekend.) A lot of that is clothing, which more and more people are buying sight-unseen, so a lot goes back.

Despite their apparently-lying-president's all-is-well statements to the WSJ, FedEx Ground sucked this year. FedEx Express did well. UPS did fine. USPS handled the surge of last-mile deliveries with very-high reliability.

Amazon did better than both, in both its ground operations and air operations -- and remember that Amazon's ground-line-haul and PSC operation is the thing nobody talks about but is now gargantuan and incredible and handled some order of magnitude more packages than did the air operation. There are an unimaginable number of owner-operators and small trucking companies that owe their livelihoods these days to that Amazon line-haul and PSC-to-USPS business.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:29 am

wjcandee wrote:
Yep. Peak lasts well into January. You get returns, and you get vendors shipping replacements for the returns.

This year was by far the largest e-commerce holiday period ever, according to early reports. (So good, in fact, that Walmart failed to get me numerous freaking gifts by when they said they would -- 12/24 my butt, it's now coming 12/27; yes I said I would avoid them bc they started Peak wobbly, but I got suckered by some great deals on things for people and didn't think they would "guarantee" anything they couldn't deliver on. Wrong. In contrast, Amazon did not overpromise -- they learned that lesson years ago. Apparently, there was an explosion of online shopping on the final weekend.) A lot of that is clothing, which more and more people are buying sight-unseen, so a lot goes back.

Despite their apparently-lying-president's all-is-well statements to the WSJ, FedEx Ground sucked this year. FedEx Express did well. UPS did fine. USPS handled the surge of last-mile deliveries with very-high reliability.

Amazon did better than both, in both its ground operations and air operations -- and remember that Amazon's ground-line-haul and PSC operation is the thing nobody talks about but is now gargantuan and incredible and handled some order of magnitude more packages than did the air operation. There are a thousands of owner-operators and small trucking companies that owe their livelihoods these days to that Amazon line-haul and PSC-to-USPS business.

I find it tough to compare Amazons network to FX or UPS. At their core they are significantly different. Amazon always has an out. They know they have the capacity of X amount of pieces on any given day. Just like FX and UPS. Where they differ though is they have an outlet if they exceed that capacity. They can shoot all those excess pieces to the outside carriers while brown and purple really can’t.

Sure FX and UPS can sit them if the agreed upon number is exceeded, but you’re talking about a number that Amazon probably wouldn’t have been able to process in a single day anyways.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
USAirKid
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:36 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Yep. Peak lasts well into January. You get returns, and you get vendors shipping replacements for the returns.

This year was by far the largest e-commerce holiday period ever, according to early reports. (So good, in fact, that Walmart failed to get me numerous freaking gifts by when they said they would -- 12/24 my butt, it's now coming 12/27; yes I said I would avoid them bc they started Peak wobbly, but I got suckered by some great deals on things for people and didn't think they would "guarantee" anything they couldn't deliver on. Wrong. In contrast, Amazon did not overpromise -- they learned that lesson years ago. Apparently, there was an explosion of online shopping on the final weekend.) A lot of that is clothing, which more and more people are buying sight-unseen, so a lot goes back.

Despite their apparently-lying-president's all-is-well statements to the WSJ, FedEx Ground sucked this year. FedEx Express did well. UPS did fine. USPS handled the surge of last-mile deliveries with very-high reliability.

Amazon did better than both, in both its ground operations and air operations -- and remember that Amazon's ground-line-haul and PSC operation is the thing nobody talks about but is now gargantuan and incredible and handled some order of magnitude more packages than did the air operation. There are a thousands of owner-operators and small trucking companies that owe their livelihoods these days to that Amazon line-haul and PSC-to-USPS business.

I find it tough to compare Amazons network to FX or UPS. At their core they are significantly different. Amazon always has an out. They know they have the capacity of X amount of pieces on any given day. Just like FX and UPS. Where they differ though is they have an outlet if they exceed that capacity. They can shoot all those excess pieces to the outside carriers while brown and purple really can’t.

Sure FX and UPS can sit them if the agreed upon number is exceeded, but you’re talking about a number that Amazon probably wouldn’t have been able to process in a single day anyways.



The other thing with Amazon's network is they somewhat control the inbound packages as well. From what I've seen their website stops promising 1 day delivery if its not possible to make their one day delivery. UPS and FedEx have that somewhat with maximum package quantities with their contracted customers, but in many cases that still looks like a 5X/FX failure, not a retailer failure. Amazon has essentially figured out how to not promise what they can't deliver.

The other capacity bump that Amazon is starting to use is 3 am - 8 am deliveries, which allows them to get another delivery cycle out of the last mile equipment their AMZL contractors are using.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:32 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Yep. Peak lasts well into January. You get returns, and you get vendors shipping replacements for the returns.

This year was by far the largest e-commerce holiday period ever, according to early reports. (So good, in fact, that Walmart failed to get me numerous freaking gifts by when they said they would -- 12/24 my butt, it's now coming 12/27; yes I said I would avoid them bc they started Peak wobbly, but I got suckered by some great deals on things for people and didn't think they would "guarantee" anything they couldn't deliver on. Wrong. In contrast, Amazon did not overpromise -- they learned that lesson years ago. Apparently, there was an explosion of online shopping on the final weekend.) A lot of that is clothing, which more and more people are buying sight-unseen, so a lot goes back.

Despite their apparently-lying-president's all-is-well statements to the WSJ, FedEx Ground sucked this year. FedEx Express did well. UPS did fine. USPS handled the surge of last-mile deliveries with very-high reliability.

Amazon did better than both, in both its ground operations and air operations -- and remember that Amazon's ground-line-haul and PSC operation is the thing nobody talks about but is now gargantuan and incredible and handled some order of magnitude more packages than did the air operation. There are a thousands of owner-operators and small trucking companies that owe their livelihoods these days to that Amazon line-haul and PSC-to-USPS business.

I find it tough to compare Amazons network to FX or UPS. At their core they are significantly different. Amazon always has an out. They know they have the capacity of X amount of pieces on any given day. Just like FX and UPS. Where they differ though is they have an outlet if they exceed that capacity. They can shoot all those excess pieces to the outside carriers while brown and purple really can’t.

Sure FX and UPS can sit them if the agreed upon number is exceeded, but you’re talking about a number that Amazon probably wouldn’t have been able to process in a single day anyways.

Sending large quantities of packages requires a contract, with minimums and maximums and paying the fees. This isn't an individual or business paying the retail price.

The cost of outside capacity is high. The FX contract has expired. FX expected packages, but did not receive as their pricing was steep. We're talking billions of dollars here, not chump change.

Amazon negotiates tough contracts, but vendors will say no, as FX did this year.

Amazon Air will grow, but a fraction of the ground growth.

Lightsaber
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N212R
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:59 am

wjcandee wrote:
Yep. Peak lasts well into January. You get returns, and you get vendors shipping replacements for the returns.

This year was by far the largest e-commerce holiday period ever, according to early reports. (So good, in fact, that Walmart failed to get me numerous freaking gifts by when they said they would -- 12/24 my butt, it's now coming 12/27; yes I said I would avoid them bc they started Peak wobbly, but I got suckered by some great deals on things for people and didn't think they would "guarantee" anything they couldn't deliver on. Wrong. In contrast, Amazon did not overpromise -- they learned that lesson years ago. Apparently, there was an explosion of online shopping on the final weekend.) A lot of that is clothing, which more and more people are buying sight-unseen, so a lot goes back.

Despite their apparently-lying-president's all-is-well statements to the WSJ, FedEx Ground sucked this year. FedEx Express did well. UPS did fine. USPS handled the surge of last-mile deliveries with very-high reliability.

Amazon did better than both, in both its ground operations and air operations -- and remember that Amazon's ground-line-haul and PSC operation is the thing nobody talks about but is now gargantuan and incredible and handled some order of magnitude more packages than did the air operation. There are an unimaginable number of owner-operators and small trucking companies that owe their livelihoods these days to that Amazon line-haul and PSC-to-USPS business.


When you're an incredible Amazon booster, everyone else is incredibly second best. :P
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:48 am

At the holiday party I was just at there were a couple families who are still waiting for FedEx orders placed for delivery by Christmas that appear to be sitting delayed in central Texas about an hour from the point of intended delivery, with no explanation from FedEx. It’s such a small data point, it sure would be interesting to be able to compare performance data regionally and by carrier.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:58 am

GoodRide wrote:
At the holiday party I was just at there were a couple families who are still waiting for FedEx orders placed for delivery by Christmas that appear to be sitting delayed in central Texas about an hour from the point of intended delivery, with no explanation from FedEx. It’s such a small data point, it sure would be interesting to be able to compare performance data regionally and by carrier.


I'm guessing this was coming by FedEx Ground/FedEx Home Delivery, not from FedEx Express. Or there was something unique about this particular shipment, like the box broke open, damaged in transit, fluid leaked within the box, etc. But it's a fair bet, it seems, that it was the former. They'll likely dig out in the next day or two.

You're right, it's just a data point. But if it was several families, then that's more than one point. It could be difficulties just at one center, but as I mentioned earlier, I had the same kind of issue with them getting stuff flowing out of Florida to the Northeast -- again, multiple shipments that didn't move into their network for several days. In years past, FedEx Ground/ FedEx Smartpost had issues with trailers sitting stacked up near origin nodes filled with goods coming from customers' distribution centers unable to be unloaded into the origin network center. It seemed like that was happening again in different parts of the country this year, and the same thing may be happening at the delivery nodes as well. The reason I believed that this was a widespread issue is that FedEx is an well-run company whose managers can step in, in real-time, and deal with isolated incidents by doing things like having trailers redirected to other, un-congested, origin nodes to bypass a problem area. But if a lot of areas are problematic, then they can't, and you get those stacked-up trailers.

The only nationwide data point that we have is that Amazon ordered Marketplace sellers not to use Ground/Home-Delivery for self-shipped Prime, essentially for the remainder of Peak, because Amazon was seeing nationwide inadequate delivery performance by that channel. And Amazon has excellent real-time visibility into exactly that kind of data. FedEx poo-pooed it when it hit the media, but it does seem from the 3rd-party early reports that Amazon was absolutely-correct, and if FedEx ever comes clean about it, the performance numbers at Ground probably won't be very good. Watch for them to try to use some kind of aggregate number like X% were on-time, without revealing how significantly-not-on-time many of those packages were (i.e. a day late? or a week late?), which is the kind of important stat that would have led to the Amazon action.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4988
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:01 am

wjcandee wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
At the holiday party I was just at there were a couple families who are still waiting for FedEx orders placed for delivery by Christmas that appear to be sitting delayed in central Texas about an hour from the point of intended delivery, with no explanation from FedEx. It’s such a small data point, it sure would be interesting to be able to compare performance data regionally and by carrier.


I'm guessing this was coming by FedEx Ground/FedEx Home Delivery, not from FedEx Express. Or there was something unique about this particular shipment, like the box broke open, damaged in transit, fluid leaked within the box, etc. But it's a fair bet, it seems, that it was the former. They'll likely dig out in the next day or two.

You're right, it's just a data point. But if it was several families, then that's more than one point. It could be difficulties just at one center, but as I mentioned earlier, I had the same kind of issue with them getting stuff flowing out of Florida to the Northeast -- again, multiple shipments that didn't move into their network for several days. In years past, FedEx Ground/ FedEx Smartpost had issues with trailers sitting stacked up near origin nodes filled with goods coming from customers' distribution centers unable to be unloaded into the origin network center. It seemed like that was happening again in different parts of the country this year, and the same thing may be happening at the delivery nodes as well. The reason I believed that this was a widespread issue is that FedEx is an well-run company whose managers can step in, in real-time, and deal with isolated incidents by doing things like having trailers redirected to other, un-congested, origin nodes to bypass a problem area. But if a lot of areas are problematic, then they can't, and you get those stacked-up trailers.

The only nationwide data point that we have is that Amazon ordered Marketplace sellers not to use Ground/Home-Delivery for self-shipped Prime, essentially for the remainder of Peak, because Amazon was seeing nationwide inadequate delivery performance by that channel. And Amazon has excellent real-time visibility into exactly that kind of data. FedEx poo-pooed it when it hit the media, but it does seem from the 3rd-party early reports that Amazon was absolutely-correct, and if FedEx ever comes clean about it, the performance numbers at Ground probably won't be very good. Watch for them to try to use some kind of aggregate number like X% were on-time, without revealing how significantly-not-on-time many of those packages were (i.e. a day late? or a week late?), which is the kind of important stat that would have led to the Amazon action.

This kind of behavior is exactly why those of us at FedEx Express don't have a sunshine and rainbows opinion of our compatriots at Ground.

We take pride in our handling, tracking and movement. Ground doesn't really seem to care. They do make money, but it's based on volume, not a reflection of their service metrics.

I should note that the Smartpost program supposedly ended and that volume was simply absorbed into the FX network. Probably a good thing, since it seemed to have pretty poor results in terms of on-time delivery.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8320
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:07 pm

HPRamper wrote:
This kind of behavior is exactly why those of us at FedEx Express don't have a sunshine and rainbows opinion of our compatriots at Ground.

We take pride in our handling, tracking and movement. Ground doesn't really seem to care. They do make money, but it's based on volume, not a reflection of their service metrics.

I should note that the Smartpost program supposedly ended and that volume was simply absorbed into the FX network. Probably a good thing, since it seemed to have pretty poor results in terms of on-time delivery.


One is a premium service with a long culture of excellence; one is a commodity, a ground operation that was built onto what was RPS (Roadway Package System, itself an addition to an LTL trucking carrier, Roadway). (Not to besmirch RPS, which was trying to do an innovative ground-up competitor to UPS Ground; for example, it invented the bar-code-sorting of ground packages.) RPS/FedEx Ground started out as a business-to-business-only service (Ground), then set up a whole additional last-mile delivery network to do homes (Home Delivery). FedEx has done a lot to improve Ground's reliability, and it has a number of lanes in which it is faster than UPS; I use it all the time during the year and am amazed that I can ship a package from NY to, say, New Hampshire, and it gets there the next day at a Ground price. And with my discounts, it's a lot cheaper than UPS. But it apparently doesn't have the redundancy or culture -- both of which cost money -- to handle a surge as well as Express does. I think most people think Tom Hanks in the opening of Castaway when they think of the culture at FedEx Express; probably not so much at Ground.

SmartPost was actually previously a division of Quad Graphics. Workshare with the USPS was actually a great idea, but executed in a mediocre way by SmartPost. They had the worst label of the Workshare partners; they didn't place it in a consistent way on the package; they were constantly over-labeling, etc., etc., and in a big operation, these little details affect reliability. There are published stories of automated USPS equipment sorting the Smartpost-label packages onto routes back to the sender because of the label design, thinking that the return address was the addressee, only to be pulled by a human and sent back in the right direction, only to be sent back again because the equipment was reading the return address as the addressee. Oy. So not to cannibalize their own services, and to keep costs low, many Workshare folks didn't/don't go out of their way to eliminate the extra day that transferring to the USPS takes. (Amazon, OTOH, cuts that day and gets the parcels to the local DDU by the morning cutoff time (usually 7am), so there's no extra-day delay, and thus uses an inexpensive last-mile in a premium way.) SmartPost had its own ground line-haul network until a couple of years ago, when someone finally realized that it would go faster and much-more-reliably on the Ground line-haul network. But that was a problem, too, because the stuff would come to say, Keasby, NJ (a big Ground node), then have to be hauled over to the Smartpost sort center, which would add a day despite them being less than an hour apart. Finally, the operations were better-integrated, and, like at UPS, a parcel can be pulled from Smartpost and delivered by Home Delivery if cost-effective, making the Home Delivery providers happier. If SmartPost goes away entirely, that would probably help FedEx reputationally, but open a little bit of an opportunity for folks like DHL E-commerce, which continues what was once Airborne At Home, and Newgistics. The latter was bought by Pitney-Bowes, the postage meter people, and has been emphasizing, of late, easy e-commerce returns over original delivery, but apparently still does both. I always thought that Workshare was a great idea if executed correctly, and Amazon is really the only company (after Netflix in the old DVD days) to use it super-effectively. (Netflix was once USPS's largest customer, and they hired a retired Postmaster General to optimize their outbound and return USPS interactions, and the dang thing worked pretty-amazingly and lightning-fast.)
 
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2019

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:28 pm

Please continue discussion in 2020 thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437931&p=21893165#p21893165
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