MCTSET
Topic Author
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:45 pm

London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:00 pm

Happy new year to all.

With the current congestion issues that the current London airports are facing, would opening up Biggin Hill airport for scheduled passenger flights be an option. The runway is just shy of 6000 feet so could handle a few smaller narrow bodies and regional jets and props, plusthere could be space for an extension. A small passenger terminal could be constructed as well. I know their were proposals in the past and they were shot down but maybe things have changed and is up for consideration again, What are your thoughts on this idea?
 
User avatar
DrPaul
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:03 pm

The problem with Biggin Hill is its transport links. It's on a fairly minor road and is quite some way from railway stations with a good service to Central London, such as Bromley South or Orpington.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:07 pm

Is it not also right under a holding stack for Heathrow? Adding extra descending/climbing traffic there surely can't help traffic flow.
 
bagoldex
Posts: 1027
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:14 pm

Also not enough space to construct a proper commercial passenger terminal. Even something basic with limited amenities/retail and no jet bridges would be almost impossible.
 
Kilopond
Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:17 pm

I would rather re-establish Northolt as a civil airport. Kick the military out of there, they can do their business at other places just as well. Build a satellite at NHT and connect it by some kind of rail/tube/People mover transport to LHR. Travelling time should be less than 10 minutes. Still better than the polderbaan!
 
Samrnpage
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:17 pm

Been talked about before, its just a logistical nightmere and would cost a lot of money for probably not a lot. Manston, Farnborough and Oxford are probably better overflow options.
 
parapente
Posts: 3061
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Used to live round there as a kid. Not a chance - no transport links full stop. private jets with their chauffeur why not ( they do already)
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:34 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
Been talked about before, its just a logistical nightmere and would cost a lot of money for probably not a lot. Manston, Farnborough and Oxford are probably better overflow options.


Manston was already attempted, being a logistical nightmare is pretty much why the attempt failed. It's quite a long way from London and the nearest motorway and train station are not really that close. I believe the airport is now fully closed.

I flew into Manston once from Manchester on a Flybe Q400, it was like landing in a field with a shed. On the return journey our flight was departing at a similar time to another Flybe Q400 to somewhere else. The tiny terminal felt packed (and this is considering our flight only had about 15 passengers on board).

So... it would probably have been a case of tearing it all down and starting again with a new terminal etc!
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4468
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:51 pm

Kilopond wrote:
I would rather re-establish Northolt as a civil airport. Kick the military out of there, they can do their business at other places just as well. Build a satellite at NHT and connect it by some kind of rail/tube/People mover transport to LHR. Travelling time should be less than 10 minutes. Still better than the polderbaan!

This madness again? Who uses this? Seriously who get’s the short straw? What airlines have to move out?
Northolt is EIGHT miles from Heathrow. There is ZERO comparison with AMS with single terminal connections. You literally suggest building a full blown railway line across some of the most expensive land in Western Europe as well as the M4 (no biggy that last bit to be fair) for HOW MANY passengers an hour and expect an ROI. At least runway three has a commercial logic behind it.
This Northolt train would only be for connecting passengers btw, it’s madness on stilts.
No airline has requested that Nortolt, Biggin Hill, Farnoborough, Fairoaks, Booker or any other non commercial airfield be open to airline traffic. Because there is ZERO call for it.

Biggin Hill isn’t a London airport btw, nor is Southend-on-Sea, nor Oxford.
 
louA340
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:19 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:45 am

Biggin Hill gets busy enough with the private jet traffic. Don't think there is anywhere they would be able to fit scheduled passenger services.
 
Samrnpage
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:25 am

skipness1E wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
I would rather re-establish Northolt as a civil airport. Kick the military out of there, they can do their business at other places just as well. Build a satellite at NHT and connect it by some kind of rail/tube/People mover transport to LHR. Travelling time should be less than 10 minutes. Still better than the polderbaan!

This madness again? Who uses this? Seriously who get’s the short straw? What airlines have to move out?
Northolt is EIGHT miles from Heathrow. There is ZERO comparison with AMS with single terminal connections. You literally suggest building a full blown railway line across some of the most expensive land in Western Europe as well as the M4 (no biggy that last bit to be fair) for HOW MANY passengers an hour and expect an ROI. At least runway three has a commercial logic behind it.
This Northolt train would only be for connecting passengers btw, it’s madness on stilts.
No airline has requested that Nortolt, Biggin Hill, Farnoborough, Fairoaks, Booker or any other non commercial airfield be open to airline traffic. Because there is ZERO call for it.

Biggin Hill isn’t a London airport btw, nor is Southend-on-Sea, nor Oxford.


Biggin hill is closer to london than gatwick to be fair.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:31 am

skipness1E wrote:
Biggin Hill isn’t a London airport btw, nor is Southend-on-Sea, nor Oxford.

I agree with you about Biggin Hill and Oxford.
However IATA do regard Southend-on-Sea as a London airport and include it with LHR/LGW/LCY/LTN/STN in the citycode LON, so flights to/from there show up in searches involving all London airports.
During the period when Oxford had scheduled flights it was never included in the London citycode even though airport management did claim it was a "London" airport.
The UK Department for Transport and its various satellite agencies have an ambiguous attitude, sometimes Southend is classed as London and sometimes it isn't.
 
george77300
Posts: 1111
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:47 am

Andy33 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Biggin Hill isn’t a London airport btw, nor is Southend-on-Sea, nor Oxford.

I agree with you about Biggin Hill and Oxford.
However IATA do regard Southend-on-Sea as a London airport and include it with LHR/LGW/LCY/LTN/STN in the citycode LON, so flights to/from there show up in searches involving all London airports.
During the period when Oxford had scheduled flights it was never included in the London citycode even though airport management did claim it was a "London" airport.
The UK Department for Transport and its various satellite agencies have an ambiguous attitude, sometimes Southend is classed as London and sometimes it isn't.


Biggin Hill is very much “London Biggin Hill”. Definitely London airport. It would be included in LON code if it had flights. It’s the third closest out of seven after LCY and LHR. Closer than all of LGW/LTN/STN/SEN. It is within the M25, which is not something to be said for most of the other “London” airports.

I agree with others having flown out of BQH (Biggin) about 40 times, it is a pain in the a** to get too. No public transport and train station is a little way away. Wouldn’t be convenient and the road to it is a tiny local road so would be chaos with any number of passengers. Not to mention not a whole lot of room for a terminal/parking/facilities to be built.
 
george77300
Posts: 1111
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:49 am

Samrnpage wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
I would rather re-establish Northolt as a civil airport. Kick the military out of there, they can do their business at other places just as well. Build a satellite at NHT and connect it by some kind of rail/tube/People mover transport to LHR. Travelling time should be less than 10 minutes. Still better than the polderbaan!

This madness again? Who uses this? Seriously who get’s the short straw? What airlines have to move out?
Northolt is EIGHT miles from Heathrow. There is ZERO comparison with AMS with single terminal connections. You literally suggest building a full blown railway line across some of the most expensive land in Western Europe as well as the M4 (no biggy that last bit to be fair) for HOW MANY passengers an hour and expect an ROI. At least runway three has a commercial logic behind it.
This Northolt train would only be for connecting passengers btw, it’s madness on stilts.
No airline has requested that Nortolt, Biggin Hill, Farnoborough, Fairoaks, Booker or any other non commercial airfield be open to airline traffic. Because there is ZERO call for it.

Biggin Hill isn’t a London airport btw, nor is Southend-on-Sea, nor Oxford.


Biggin hill is closer to london than gatwick to be fair.


Absolutely. Closer than all of LGW/LTN/STN/SEN. Only LHR and LCY would be closer.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 6531
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:05 am

Image

Invest a bit of money in Wisley airport, great connection next to the A3, just have to do battle with the millionaires in Weybridge and Cobham :box:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:11 am

Biggin Hill IS a London airport, as is SEN, but indeed Northolt would be a much better proposition as a relief third-tier additional airport open to commercial flights. If you really want to do things you can, it's simply a question of money and willingness, and Northolt already IS a fully functioning airport. Now I would never see it becoming an additional Heathrow satellite, but a 'relief' regional airport with some LCC movements? Well, maybe. Re: Manston... Hello, Manston is DEAD. It ONCE WAS an airport, it's not anymore. And it was too too far away from London in the first place.
And then we have other small but significant airfields that "could" be expanded IF and only IF there was a need and/or the desire + the $$$...
Farnborough for example is a pretty major gateway for private jets, which could easily be 'converted' into a proper civil airport.
Then we have Blackbushe (still functioning, and once WAS a major London airport), just up the road from Farnborough and right along the A30. And then some smaller aerodromes which -again, theoretically- 'could' be converted into functioning civil airports: Fairoaks, Redhill, North Weald (right next to the motorway, just awe bit 'down' from STN), and perhaps even Dunsfold.
Plenty of options really.
Question 1 tho is market realities and real world 'needs' : Who would want to fly into these minor airports? would airlines be happy to be relegated into theses tiny secondary airports?? Me thinks NO.
Question 2 is of course $$$$....it takes shitloads of money to turn an open field with a grass runway into a proper airport, with no guarantee of subsequent commercial success.
Question 3 is the environment protection and noise sensitive areas around these airport...one would have to foresee long, hard expensive battles with the residents of these areas....
So there you go....
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5241
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:47 am

What is the reason OXF never took off? I am not familiar with OXF and I know it is somehow between LTN and LHR, but the area around Oxford is quite wealthy. I imagine it could attract some PAX from Swindon, Northampton or Reading.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:50 am

Considering the NIMBYs today, you won't get that idea through. Especially not in such a green, leafy and (more or less) affluent area (=lawyers coming for you).

Better finally build the second runway at Gatwick (and don't tell me it has a second runway) and the third one at Heathrow. That should solve all problems (proper terminal expansions included).
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:01 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Image

Invest a bit of money in Wisley airport, great connection next to the A3, just have to do battle with the millionaires in Weybridge and Cobham :box:



:checkmark:
Yes!
Ghosts of screaming non-hushkitted 1-11s are said to be roaming the concrete runway at night! :yes: :rotfl:

And what about Hatfield???
That had a GRAND main building that could have been converted into a beautiful passenger terminal!
 
uta999
Posts: 703
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:17 am

Croydon once had an airport I am told, before it was sold off to build what can only be described as 'social housing'. How ironic. If you know the area you will understand.
Your computer just got better
 
evomutant
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:47 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:24 am

SCQ83 wrote:
What is the reason OXF never took off? I am not familiar with OXF and I know it is somehow between LTN and LHR, but the area around Oxford is quite wealthy. I imagine it could attract some PAX from Swindon, Northampton or Reading.


They did consult on imposing Class D airspace over the aerodrome (and most of Oxfordshire) last year. That would be a prerequisite for any serious commercial operation. Went down like a cup of cold sick with the large local GA community and others (including the MoD). They went off with their tails between their legs and have promised to "adjust" those plans.
 
StTim
Posts: 3409
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:43 am

SCQ83 wrote:
What is the reason OXF never took off? I am not familiar with OXF and I know it is somehow between LTN and LHR, but the area around Oxford is quite wealthy. I imagine it could attract some PAX from Swindon, Northampton or Reading.


I really am not sure how OXF could be considered to be between LTN and LHR?
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1718
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:58 am

skipness1E wrote:
This madness again?
Northolt is EIGHT miles from Heathrow. There is ZERO comparison with AMS with single terminal connections.
I just LOVE people who feel the need to use hyperbole and BLOCK CAPITALS when really they should be saved for special occasions. Especially when they get their facts wrong (Clue; SIX miles...)
skipness1E wrote:
You literally suggest building a full blown railway line across some of the most expensive land in Western Europe as well as the M4 (no biggy that last bit to be fair) for HOW MANY passengers an hour and expect an ROI.
I agree; anybody literally suggesting a full blown railway line is probably being optimistic. However, I cannot believe you didn't mention the existing twin track rail link that connects Northolt station to Heathrow? Most of it has only been there for around 150 years, so I agree it probably needs freshening up.
Drayton Green station, looking south
ImageTurn left for London Paddington, turn right for Heathrow.

skipness1E wrote:
This Northolt train would only be for connecting passengers btw, it’s madness on stilts.

Actually, having upgraded the station at Northolt, you might find some passengers using the Central line to go into er, um, yes that's right CENTRAL London.
p.s. Nice turn of phrase ("madness on stilts"); I must remember that one! :bigthumbsup:

skipness1E wrote:
Biggin Hill isn’t a London airport btw, nor is Southend-on-Sea, nor Oxford.
I have some sympathy with that viewpoint, but neither is Gatwick or Stansted if you want to get your measuring stick out. However, I think you will find yourself in a minority.

Is Northolt a better option than Biggin Hill? Yes
Is Northolt the best option? Possibly not.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4468
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:31 am

Google said eight miles, I did check.
Drayton Green is a landside railway line where no trains go to Heathrow. The OP was suggesting ( I thought ) that there would be an airside connection between LHR and a Sat at NHT. If not, then what’s the point of connecting NHT with LHR at all?
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2316
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:26 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
.

Actually, having upgraded the station at Northolt, you might find some passengers using the Central line to go into er, um, yes that's right CENTRAL London.

Is Northolt a better option than Biggin Hill? Yes
Is Northolt the best option? Possibly not.



:checkmark: Thank You Sir! I had actually forgotten that the Central Line goes all the way out to Northolt....

I wonder how expensive it would be to create a 'loop' (there used to be many tube loops back in the day) to serve the airport terminal there in case... And actually Ruislip Gardens station is literally metres away from Northolt airport perimeter....perhaps a protected walkway + conveyors would be enough..

So there we go, we have the winner here :champagne: :trophy: : Northolt, the new London airport that already exists and that is already served [could be]by the tube, comfortably sitting by the Central Line!
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:37 pm

Kilopond wrote:
I would rather re-establish Northolt as a civil airport. Kick the military out of there, they can do their business at other places just as well.


It's the longest serving RAF aerodrome having been established by the Royal Flying Corp in 1915 (3 years before the RAF formed).
It's never been a civil aerodrome so you won't 're-establish' Northolt as a civil airport.

Commercial operators were allowed to use it during the construction of Heathrow (1946-1954). Private civil flights were able to use the field in various limited capacities (max 28/day 7000/yr) over the years since, as most MOD fields can be. Those restrictions were lifted at Northolt in 2008. The field does now have a sizeable number of private (mainly VIP) movements alongside the military ones but it's still a military airport and active military base.

Kicking the military out (hard as the MOD own it) and declaring it a civil airport will likely have the opposite effect and cause it's (locally welcomed) closure. It'd struggle to meet the planning requirements it would be subjected to as a civil airport and would almost certainly fail to obtain any further permissions (such as increases in allowed movements/erection of required buildings eg a terminal). It'll certainly never become the civil commercial wet dream you want. It may have a future for private Biz/Corp use, should the unlikely happen and the military withdraw, but it'll be a limited one.


As for Biggin HIll (and the OP question), while it's a well established GA/Biz airport. It's got little room for commercial expansion (it's chock full of biz flights as it is)....nor does it have any of the transport links desirable (it's a relative bugger to get to) if there were such commercial services.
 
User avatar
SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1718
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:03 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Google said eight miles, I did check.
Drayton Green is a landside railway line where no trains go to Heathrow. The OP was suggesting ( I thought ) that there would be an airside connection between LHR and a Sat at NHT. If not, then what’s the point of connecting NHT with LHR at all?
You have muddled up all sorts of things here; are you familiar at all with Northolt or the area?

I assume Google is referring to roads, which as everybody knows, do not necessarily follow the shortest path.
However, since you were responding to a suggestion regarding a dedicated rail link, I suggest it would follow the shortest path (under ground if necessary) which is only six miles. If you had not deliberately emphasized the EIGHT miles in capital letters, I might have let it go. You brought that upon yourself.

As it happens, the historical rail route I identified may well end up closer to 10 miles, because it was laid down long before either Heathrow or Northolt were even dreamed of. However, an extra couple of miles in a rail-vehicle that maintains a steady 100 km/h and is generally not required to stop at traffic lights to let schoolchildren cross the line, is not my greatest concern.

The photo showed Drayton Green station looking south, in order to incorporate the important rail junction just beyond it (see caption). Drayton Green is an irrelevance in itself, and the Northolt to Heathrow trains would pass through it at line speed, having perhaps made an allowance for the points and radius of the curve ahead (e.g. reduce to 50 km/h). If for some reason the train paused temporarily at Drayton Green, the doors would remain locked to keep the airside passengers separate from any local traffic. It's not rocket science.

Alternatively I could have shown a photograph of Northolt station (as it is today), which would not help you in the slightest, as it is the stations of South Ruislip, and Ruislip Gardens, that are closest to Northolt Airfield. Currently, neither of them has any barriers to delineate airside passengers, nor indeed any train services to London Heathrow. That is because there are no actual passengers at Northolt Airport yet, nor flights for them to connect with. Everything is a future projection.

Hopefully you can imagine a future where there is either a short dedicated rail loop taking passengers directly into Northolt Airport terminal itself, or an expanded Ruislip Gardens station to separate airside rail traffic from all else. Neither of those options involves displacing quantities of angry residents "across some of the most expensive land in Western Europe".
oldannyboy wrote:
Ruislip Gardens station is literally metres away from Northolt airport perimeter....perhaps a protected walkway + conveyors would be enough.


I am still inclined to agree with you that it will never happen, but let's try and be accurate with our critical comments.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Breathe
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:31 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
I would rather re-establish Northolt as a civil airport. Kick the military out of there, they can do their business at other places just as well. Build a satellite at NHT and connect it by some kind of rail/tube/People mover transport to LHR. Travelling time should be less than 10 minutes. Still better than the polderbaan!

This madness again? Who uses this? Seriously who get’s the short straw? What airlines have to move out?
Northolt is EIGHT miles from Heathrow. There is ZERO comparison with AMS with single terminal connections. You literally suggest building a full blown railway line across some of the most expensive land in Western Europe as well as the M4 (no biggy that last bit to be fair) for HOW MANY passengers an hour and expect an ROI. At least runway three has a commercial logic behind it.
This Northolt train would only be for connecting passengers btw, it’s madness on stilts.
No airline has requested that Nortolt, Biggin Hill, Farnoborough, Fairoaks, Booker or any other non commercial airfield be open to airline traffic. Because there is ZERO call for it.

Biggin Hill isn’t a London airport btw, nor is Southend-on-Sea, nor Oxford.


Biggin hill is closer to london than gatwick to be fair.

Biggin Hill is actually in London! It's located in the London Borough of Bromley, unless the boundaries of Greater London have suddenly changed. :D

Technically speaking, there are only two passenger airports that truly based in London: Heathrow and City.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5241
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:35 pm

evomutant wrote:
They did consult on imposing Class D airspace over the aerodrome (and most of Oxfordshire) last year. That would be a prerequisite for any serious commercial operation. Went down like a cup of cold sick with the large local GA community and others (including the MoD). They went off with their tails between their legs and have promised to "adjust" those plans.


It is a pity. With an extension I could see it as a "SEN NW". Suitable for P2P flights for city breaks, beach holidays, some VFR... after all the two closest London airports (LTN and LHR) are pretty much packed. There is a motorway and I see a railway (however no station nearby). Is that the extension of London-Oxford railway? I suspect though doing a train station (even if small like London Southend Airport) would take ages in a place like the UK.
 
thegrew
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:45 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:58 pm

With HS2 I think the next London airports will likely be Birmingham and assuming phase two gets built Manchester. Birmingham will become ~45mins from Euston which I believe is comparable to the Stansted Express. Manchester will be further (~90mins) but I could see it becoming increasily attractive from Birmingham (~35mins) where people could be tempted to head north rather than south to an airport.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3837
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:22 pm

bagoldex wrote:
Also not enough space to construct a proper commercial passenger terminal. Even something basic with limited amenities/retail and no jet bridges would be almost impossible.


No expansion possible at the west side of the runway where the general aviation terminal is located indeed, however plenty of room at the east side of the runway. I once saw a plan for a terminal there and honestly thought it was rather good. Only you need to demolish the EFG Flying School, the golf course and the Scout Centre. That can be done. A railway line can be built splitting off the existing railway line at Chelsfield, bending off to the south and then west straight to the terminal. That would connect Biggin Hill straight to London Bridge station. It can be constructed with very little effort. Roads are a bit more problematic, certainly into the city, but a major road south connecting to the M25 near Westerham is not hard to build.
 
Themotionman
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:18 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:35 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
A railway line can be built splitting off the existing railway line at Chelsfield, bending off to the south and then west straight to the terminal.

That would connect Biggin Hill straight to London Bridge station. It can be constructed with very little effort.


Or perhaps extend the trams from New Addington, I imagine it would be alot cheaper. Whilst being a lot slower and not expanding the catchment of BQH, for an operation of under 2mppa the tram's catchment would be enough.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Roads are a bit more problematic, certainly into the city, but a major road south connecting to the M25 near Westerham is not hard to build.


I imagine if someone could get the backing of the DfT then a J5A could be built where the A233 crosses the M25.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3837
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:52 pm

Themotionman wrote:
Or perhaps extend the trams from New Addington, I imagine it would be alot cheaper. Whilst being a lot slower and not expanding the catchment of BQH, for an operation of under 2mppa the tram's catchment would be enough.


Cheaper indeed, but also less effective. I mean, how far does that tram take you into the city? How many transfers do you have to make to get there?

And you're estimating less than 2 million passengers per year to use an airport that's about a similar distance from the center of London as Heathrow? I think it has potential for much more than that. The short runway doesn't have to be an objection, the runway at London City is even shorter and it's a very busy airport. Even Southend, which is much further from London and has a similar runway length to Biggin Hill, is booming. With good connections to the city, this'll be an airport everybody wants to use.
 
Canuck600
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:05 pm

Isn't a large portion of the Biggin Hill site under a heritage designation because of it's importance in protecting London during WWII? Or is that a area that wouldn't/shouldn't be disrupted by expansion?
 
Themotionman
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:18 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:12 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Cheaper indeed, but also less effective. I mean, how far does that tram take you into the city? How many transfers do you have to make to get there?




The tram would not be used by people coming from The City. If there was a connection to the Mainline railways then yes. But the trams would be used by people from the local area - The Croydons, Beckenhams, Mitchams and others connected to the tram network.

I do not think we are going to see any investor, TfL, Network Rail, DfT straight away build a mainline railway connection. Only when there is established airline service would these organisations even consider sinking hundreds of millions into a rail link. TfL do not have the money to do any such thing in the next 20 years - look around their system and you will see projects and plans that are ahead of the queue when it comes to securing any funding. The DfT/Network Rail have enough on their plate as it is. Why would they build an airport rail link when you already have one 25 miles away?
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8489
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:21 pm

Plenty of capacity at Southend which has a very convenient rail link from right outside the terminal to Liverpool Street in 50 mins
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4468
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:11 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Google said eight miles, I did check.
Drayton Green is a landside railway line where no trains go to Heathrow. The OP was suggesting ( I thought ) that there would be an airside connection between LHR and a Sat at NHT. If not, then what’s the point of connecting NHT with LHR at all?
You have muddled up all sorts of things here; are you familiar at all with Northolt or the area?

I assume Google is referring to roads, which as everybody knows, do not necessarily follow the shortest path.
However, since you were responding to a suggestion regarding a dedicated rail link, I suggest it would follow the shortest path (under ground if necessary) which is only six miles. If you had not deliberately emphasized the EIGHT miles in capital letters, I might have let it go. You brought that upon yourself.

As it happens, the historical rail route I identified may well end up closer to 10 miles, because it was laid down long before either Heathrow or Northolt were even dreamed of. However, an extra couple of miles in a rail-vehicle that maintains a steady 100 km/h and is generally not required to stop at traffic lights to let schoolchildren cross the line, is not my greatest concern.

The photo showed Drayton Green station looking south, in order to incorporate the important rail junction just beyond it (see caption). Drayton Green is an irrelevance in itself, and the Northolt to Heathrow trains would pass through it at line speed, having perhaps made an allowance for the points and radius of the curve ahead (e.g. reduce to 50 km/h). If for some reason the train paused temporarily at Drayton Green, the doors would remain locked to keep the airside passengers separate from any local traffic. It's not rocket science.

Alternatively I could have shown a photograph of Northolt station (as it is today), which would not help you in the slightest, as it is the stations of South Ruislip, and Ruislip Gardens, that are closest to Northolt Airfield. Currently, neither of them has any barriers to delineate airside passengers, nor indeed any train services to London Heathrow. That is because there are no actual passengers at Northolt Airport yet, nor flights for them to connect with. Everything is a future projection.

Hopefully you can imagine a future where there is either a short dedicated rail loop taking passengers directly into Northolt Airport terminal itself, or an expanded Ruislip Gardens station to separate airside rail traffic from all else. Neither of those options involves displacing quantities of angry residents "across some of the most expensive land in Western Europe".
oldannyboy wrote:
Ruislip Gardens station is literally metres away from Northolt airport perimeter....perhaps a protected walkway + conveyors would be enough.


I am still inclined to agree with you that it will never happen, but let's try and be accurate with our critical comments.

I live in Feltham and have been to Northolt on the 90 a few times, so yes, I know the area.
Fundamentally you can’t look at NHT and LHR in isolation. You either use NHT as a stand alone London airport at the end of the Central Line or as a third runway to allow connections at Heathrow. It’s not competitive in this market to offer a LHR/NHT connection that involves going airside and travelling for miles by public transport. People will just use AMS or similar instead. So connecting LHR/NHT makes zero commercial sense with no ROI.
If you want more capacity for London then STN was rebuilt in the late 80s for exactly that and indeed the terminal at LCY is being greatly expanded as we speak. LGW wants another runway, it’s only LTN that has almost nowhere to go IMHO.
It’s one of those classic threads on here, “Could something happen?” Well possibly, but there are so many better options before you get to opening up NHT.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1171
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: London Biggin Hill airport

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:06 pm

Much too much local opposition to anything at Biggin or Northolt. The owners of Biggin recently set up a surropticious campaign against Northolt under the guise of being a local NIMBY group, claiming that the forthcoming runway resurfacing is to allow for commercial operations by Flybe, something that has been strongly denied by the Govt and Military. The local council sussed that Biggin was behind it and that it was all due to Biggin wanting more of the Bizjet traffic.

Additionally Biggin inbounds currently descend outside controlled airspace and do quite a sharp turn in to avoid LCY, not good for an airliner. Luton is looking at a new terminal to the east where a long term car park currently situated so they do have plans

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos