Sky new breaking a new airline group will be formed compromising of Flybe and stobart air with virgin Atlantic the majority shareholder.
Major news for the future of VS BE and MAN in particular you’d feel
Will post a link when one appears but it just flashed up on the tv
More info: a consortium led by VS will announce a takeover bid for BE tomorrow
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Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
Article for those who want to read it: https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-and-s ... l-11604069
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
DL UK expands.
Brexit-related, IMO. "VS Holdings" can do in the UK what AF/KL cannot.
Brexit-related, IMO. "VS Holdings" can do in the UK what AF/KL cannot.
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- ukflyer1999
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Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
Interesting considering Stobart Air operates for two IAG Airlines- BA CityFlyer and Aer Lingus Regional...
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- DobboDobbo
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Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
I don't think the motivating factor is Brexit.
In any case, this is about VS being the major shareholder in a new airline group as opposed to the ownership of VS.
Plainly BE's market needs trimming and optimising, and they need to avoid BE and Stobart competing and pushing down yields. As for what the tie up offers VS, it is difficult to see beyond this supporting further development of MAN.
In any case, this is about VS being the major shareholder in a new airline group as opposed to the ownership of VS.
Plainly BE's market needs trimming and optimising, and they need to avoid BE and Stobart competing and pushing down yields. As for what the tie up offers VS, it is difficult to see beyond this supporting further development of MAN.
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
No Mention of Eastern..... i guess [email protected] be back on there own again..???
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
TUGMASTER wrote:No Mention of Eastern..... i guess [email protected] be back on there own again..???
Probably not for the time being, why would they?
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
Interesting times ahead if the deal goes through.
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
Not convinced this will make the former Fly Be operations materially more efficient, and thus economic to operate
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
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- JamesCousins
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Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
AirbusA6 wrote:Not convinced this will make the former Fly Be operations materially more efficient, and thus economic to operate
If the deal goes through I don't foresee the operations staying the same, though. What it does do is give VS a network with a large number of popular and profitable routes, that run right into it's long haul hubs...
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
Since Delta de facto controls VS I’m struggling to figure out what the benefit is to the DL Transatlantic JV. Obviously some feed is good, but it won’t be much.
It seems to me that all roads lead to slots. They can’t move these slots to other regions, but can they use them to swap with their current portfolio to try to get further toward banking VS? That would be pretty valuable. I understand that DL has been very frustrated that they cant form the VS slot portfolio into anything that produces real connectivity; which allows BA to crush them. Thoughts?
It seems to me that all roads lead to slots. They can’t move these slots to other regions, but can they use them to swap with their current portfolio to try to get further toward banking VS? That would be pretty valuable. I understand that DL has been very frustrated that they cant form the VS slot portfolio into anything that produces real connectivity; which allows BA to crush them. Thoughts?
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- JamesCousins
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Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
enilria wrote:Since Delta de facto controls VS I’m struggling to figure out what the benefit is to the DL Transatlantic JV. Obviously some feed is good, but it won’t be much.
It seems to me that all roads lead to slots. They can’t move these slots to other regions, but can they use them to swap with their current portfolio to try to get further toward banking VS? That would be pretty valuable. I understand that DL has been very frustrated that they cant form the VS slot portfolio into anything that produces real connectivity; which allows BA to crush them. Thoughts?
I think you have to start somewhere, while the feed won't amass to a huge amount in the short term this has to be easier than starting from scratch - the route portfolio could definitely be expanded/altered to better provide feed if VS/DL see fit, too. While the LHR slots are restricted to domestic flights, I'd guess these are still majorly valuable. Who knows, maybe we'll see the A220 in VS colours before too long (I may be a portion ahead of myself here, I admit
)Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
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- chunhimlai
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Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
Should 2nd exeter airport be built to feed the potential growth?
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
enilria wrote:It seems to me that all roads lead to slots.
KL, which is has a relation to VS via AF/KL and DL, is probably interested in Flybe’s slots at AMS as well. Flybe’s fly the most small planes and have the 4th most slots at AMS while there are no more slots available for KL expansion.
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- DobboDobbo
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Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
The synergies are there, but I think it needs to be viewed with the various business models changing.
For BE, this will likely represent a change in emphasis from the web of (predominantly regional UK) p2p to focusing on supporting VS's network. I expect the UK regional p2p network will remain, but in a consolidated form. I'll be interested to see if the "Flybe" brand will remain, or if it will be rebranded as "Virgin Atlantic". Whether the existing fleet will be retained, or whether some of the DL A220 order will end up operating BE's former network.
For VS, it represents the ability to control and optimise a large network to support its long haul network. However, the only UK airport with a major VS presence and BE hub is at MAN. I would expect the new group to focus efforts on refining and growing the VS/BE business here. For example, where can the feed come from and what services does it want. How can it support VS or DL opening new routes, and how can it create wider synergies with partner airlines (such as Jet Airways). What I'm unclear about is how this will affect BE feeding AF/KL at CDG/AMS. I presume this will remain, but I don't know how much this is in the group's interests.
I think for Stobart it might be more of a pre-emptive move to prevent them from falling into a similar position to Flybe in a number of years time.
For BE, this will likely represent a change in emphasis from the web of (predominantly regional UK) p2p to focusing on supporting VS's network. I expect the UK regional p2p network will remain, but in a consolidated form. I'll be interested to see if the "Flybe" brand will remain, or if it will be rebranded as "Virgin Atlantic". Whether the existing fleet will be retained, or whether some of the DL A220 order will end up operating BE's former network.
For VS, it represents the ability to control and optimise a large network to support its long haul network. However, the only UK airport with a major VS presence and BE hub is at MAN. I would expect the new group to focus efforts on refining and growing the VS/BE business here. For example, where can the feed come from and what services does it want. How can it support VS or DL opening new routes, and how can it create wider synergies with partner airlines (such as Jet Airways). What I'm unclear about is how this will affect BE feeding AF/KL at CDG/AMS. I presume this will remain, but I don't know how much this is in the group's interests.
I think for Stobart it might be more of a pre-emptive move to prevent them from falling into a similar position to Flybe in a number of years time.
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
Nobody has mentioned stobart yet. They play a big part in this. Stobart want to grow the regional ops, VS want feed and slots. Both of them are winners with split liabilities and the regional Airports keep the regional operations that don't really feed into VS.
VS would probably be taking on too much if they did it alone, not needing anywhere near the levels of operation that flybe currently has.
Tie this in with some benefits to AF/KL and to a lesser degree DL. Everyone's a winner.... apart from BA/IAG(!)
VS would probably be taking on too much if they did it alone, not needing anywhere near the levels of operation that flybe currently has.
Tie this in with some benefits to AF/KL and to a lesser degree DL. Everyone's a winner.... apart from BA/IAG(!)
Re: Sky news: Virgin Atlantic to be the majority shareholder in new airline group
I think it remains to be seen whether DL/VS will restructure their respective and combined medium and long haul ops to/from the UK to take advantage of some of BE's focus cities - I'm thinking Birmingham, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and maybe either Cardiff or Bristol. Already DL is broadening its offering in Scotland with both GLA and EDI. From 2020, DL also has A220-300 and A321neo coming, both of which could be used to really broaden the UK-US network.
Then, as caaardiff says, there are potential benefits for AF/KL too (AF already codeshares on BE, and conceivably KL could do the same, giving it the option to expand in other markets) - so it isn't hard to see why VS is fronting this bid, given DL and AF/KL are its largest shareholders and all stand to benefit through using their common UK-based subsidiary.
A low ball offer doesn't surprise me - what matters is how both VS and BE promote and message the bid.
Then, as caaardiff says, there are potential benefits for AF/KL too (AF already codeshares on BE, and conceivably KL could do the same, giving it the option to expand in other markets) - so it isn't hard to see why VS is fronting this bid, given DL and AF/KL are its largest shareholders and all stand to benefit through using their common UK-based subsidiary.
A low ball offer doesn't surprise me - what matters is how both VS and BE promote and message the bid.
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