miaami
Topic Author
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AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:26 pm

Seasonal summer service will begin 5/25 and end 8/17 on Saturdays with A319.
 
braniff2hav
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:27 pm

That's great - some new hotel development on the island and high end at that will help fill that!
 
braniff2hav
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:29 pm

Of course they are going to run SY off the non-stop route. :(
 
lavalampluva
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:36 pm

braniff2hav wrote:
Of course they are going to run SY off the non-stop route. :(

SY only serves it from MSP, but AA wants to move in before SY starts it from DFW.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
stlgph
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:38 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
braniff2hav wrote:
Of course they are going to run SY off the non-stop route. :(

SY only serves it from MSP, but AA wants to move in before SY starts it from DFW.



https://www.suncountry.com/About/News/2019-1-8.html
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
lavalampluva
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:42 pm

stlgph wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
braniff2hav wrote:
Of course they are going to run SY off the non-stop route. :(

SY only serves it from MSP, but AA wants to move in before SY starts it from DFW.



https://www.suncountry.com/About/News/2019-1-8.html

Wow! :o Then this is retaliation from AA.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
stlgph
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:47 pm

The positive - nothing they haven't been able to handle before. Look at all the times DL added routes right after SY did from Minneapolis/St. Paul and the two seemed to always co-exist.

With no disrespect to those in good ole MSP, the DFW market is a lot larger and it's summer seasonal service to a leisure route. There should be plenty of money and opportunity to go around for both.

That being said, while Sun Country is no stranger to DFW, their name is lesser known in the market.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Brandon757
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:54 pm

Don't think this was completely necessary on AA's part. It's just AA being AA in DFW.
 
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FA9295
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:56 pm

Brandon757 wrote:
Don't think this was completely necessary on AA's part. It's just AA being AA in DFW.

Yep. They've gotta protect their dominance there somehow...
 
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Frontier14
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:06 pm

AA has been pretty definite in defending its' turf.

Frontier 14
 
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chepos
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:10 pm

Well, color me surprised. We all saw this coming, let’s see how long before SY feels the heat.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:20 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
AA has been pretty definite in defending its' turf.

Frontier 14


AA has always done a good job defending DFW.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:17 pm

When you're the LCC, nothing says you're doing the right thing more than a legacy retaliation. The only trick is to survive.
 
Judge1310
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:26 pm

There's AA being petty AAs heck, lol. AA already runs MIA-SKB and now its wanting to run off Sun Country on the currently non-existing DFW-SKB route? I totally get defending one's turf in a market that already exists, but dang...why not let Sun Country get its little bit of coin from running a summer only, one day a week only flight to a station that AA *clearly* knows doesn't have a strong market. I get maintaining market dominance, but an airline can NOT be everything to everyone -- there are just some markets best left for someone else to work with. AA has learned that with Asia and Europe.
 
windian425
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:31 pm

If they can do DFW-SKB, they could bring back DFW-BGI also with an A319 Saturday only.
 
guyanam
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:33 pm

I wouldn't have thought that SKB was a large enough market (aside from its MIA route) for AA to feel so defensive. I even wonder how much of their TX SKB summer traffic were even about to jump on SY, given that its new and seasonal on top of that.

But good for SKB though as AA will have to promote this route and the island will benefit at what is normally a slow time of the year.
Last edited by guyanam on Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:34 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
There's AA being petty AAs heck, lol. AA already runs MIA-SKB and now its wanting to run off Sun Country on the currently non-existing DFW-SKB route? I totally get defending one's turf in a market that already exists, but dang...why not let Sun Country get its little bit of coin from running a summer only, one day a week only flight to a station that AA *clearly* knows doesn't have a strong market. I get maintaining market dominance, but an airline can NOT be everything to everyone -- there are just some markets best left for someone else to work with. AA has learned that with Asia and Europe.



That way of thinking allowed the LCCs to rise did it not? (My observation, no facts)

I actually like this new flight and am glad AA isn’t just going to sit back and let what happened at JFK with B6 happen ever again no matter how small the threat is.
 
guyanam
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:37 pm

This surprises me as I didn't think that their SKB market (aside from main points like FL and NY) was important enough for AA to be so defensive. I even wonder how many of their TX SKB passengers were going to switch to SY given the strength of AA's DFW hub.

Maybe this isnt just about SY but its about increasing inroads by DL and UA and AAs need to minimize new entrants to prevent even further dilution what was once a virtual monopoly for them.
 
WindyBaseball
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:36 pm

This is Vasu's AA. They're going to do this everywhere. You saw it in Iceland, where they took significant losses to force out Wow and Icelandair and now they're doing this to Sun Country.

AA is so full of MBAs too busy enjoying the smell of their own farts to actually make money like their peers, so they do things like this then circlejerk that they got a non-threatening carrier from their hub.

It's no surprise they can't catch up to DL, or even Kirby-led UA.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:59 pm

I'm genuinely shocked by this. As much as AA may want to defend its turf, this market is next to nothing. Yes, it's a tourist market that can be stimulated with a nonstop but it's still an extremely small market that's already well covered from MIA and seasonally from JFK and CLT. This is beyond petty from AA.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:10 pm

stlgph wrote:
The positive - nothing they haven't been able to handle before. Look at all the times DL added routes right after SY did from Minneapolis/St. Paul and the two seemed to always co-exist.

With no disrespect to those in good ole MSP, the DFW market is a lot larger and it's summer seasonal service to a leisure route. There should be plenty of money and opportunity to go around for both.

That being said, while Sun Country is no stranger to DFW, their name is lesser known in the market.


Your third sentence is key.
SY has always been able to co-exist with NWA, then Delta on competing routes, because of "underdog/hometown" factor that MSP residents view SY with. The feeling does not exist in the Metroplex, so no matter how much larger it is, AA is virtually always gonna be the defacto choice, IMO.
I can easily see this as a one-and-done for SY.

And now, having said that - SY has been coexisting on DFW-CUN for a while... I wonder how that's performed for them? Presumably, decent - but the appetite for CUN seems near limitless; not sure SKB is a good analog.
 
Judge1310
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:23 pm

WindyBaseball wrote:
This is Vasu's AA. They're going to do this everywhere. You saw it in Iceland, where they took significant losses to force out Wow and Icelandair and now they're doing this to Sun Country.

AA is so full of MBAs too busy enjoying the smell of their own farts to actually make money like their peers, so they do things like this then circlejerk that they got a non-threatening carrier from their hub.

It's no surprise they can't catch up to DL, or even Kirby-led UA.


Omg the imagery to be had in your epic post. Cheers, good Sir/Madam!

But this is what I meant: it's fine to defend one's turf to *maintain/enhance* market share; it's absolutely inane and pointless to run off another airline on a route that needs no "defense". AA is so enamoured of it's position that it will, literally, cut off it's own nose to spite its face; i.e. if they manage to run off Sun Country on this DFW-SKB, they'll close the route faster than a Blue Norther blows down through Texas!
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:55 pm

I suspect SY already had contracts with resorts and travel agencies for the route before it was launched so they might be ok. I do agree that this is quite petty of AA - they must have some ex-NW people working there.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:05 pm

guyanam wrote:
This surprises me as I didn't think that their SKB market (aside from main points like FL and NY) was important enough for AA to be so defensive. I even wonder how many of their TX SKB passengers were going to switch to SY given the strength of AA's DFW hub.

Maybe this isnt just about SY but its about increasing inroads by DL and UA and AAs need to minimize new entrants to prevent even further dilution what was once a virtual monopoly for them.


SKB? AA doesn't even operate DFW-SXM, DFW-STT or DFW-BGI
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
guyanam
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:21 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I suspect SY already had contracts with resorts and travel agencies for the route before it was launched so they might be ok. I do agree that this is quite petty of AA - they must have some ex-NW people working there.


SY is using SKB as a stand in for SXM as the latter is still in recovery. I bet that this summer will see the last of them as SXM will be back in force for 2019/20. SKB is more of an AA market than an SY. Even B6 doesnt go there.

AA might be doing this to make sure that they do leave, or that they dont set up in DFW. Petty yes as I doubt that SKB is so valuable to them to run a long thin route. They might be able to squeeze a guarantee out of a government that will be so excited about this route, mitigating the risk.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:34 pm

guyanam wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I suspect SY already had contracts with resorts and travel agencies for the route before it was launched so they might be ok. I do agree that this is quite petty of AA - they must have some ex-NW people working there.


SY is using SKB as a stand in for SXM as the latter is still in recovery. I bet that this summer will see the last of them as SXM will be back in force for 2019/20. SKB is more of an AA market than an SY. Even B6 doesnt go there.

AA might be doing this to make sure that they do leave, or that they dont set up in DFW. Petty yes as I doubt that SKB is so valuable to them to run a long thin route. They might be able to squeeze a guarantee out of a government that will be so excited about this route, mitigating the risk.


I highly doubt SY launched a long thin once weekly flight without some sort of third party backing (ie a travel agency selling week long packages to SKB).
 
guyanam
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:18 am

usflyer msp wrote:
guyanam wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I suspect SY already had contracts with resorts and travel agencies for the route before it was launched so they might be ok. I do agree that this is quite petty of AA - they must have some ex-NW people working there.


SY is using SKB as a stand in for SXM as the latter is still in recovery. I bet that this summer will see the last of them as SXM will be back in force for 2019/20. SKB is more of an AA market than an SY. Even B6 doesnt go there.

AA might be doing this to make sure that they do leave, or that they dont set up in DFW. Petty yes as I doubt that SKB is so valuable to them to run a long thin route. They might be able to squeeze a guarantee out of a government that will be so excited about this route, mitigating the risk.


I highly doubt SY launched a long thin once weekly flight without some sort of third party backing (ie a travel agency selling week long packages to SKB).


The hotels in their package aren't the all inclusive sort that one will get from a mass market. Best will be some support from Marriott and 4 Seasons, plus a revenue guarantee. Not sure that the Park Hyatt crowd do Sun Country, even though its on offer..
 
AEROFAN
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:38 am

tjwgrr wrote:
guyanam wrote:
This surprises me as I didn't think that their SKB market (aside from main points like FL and NY) was important enough for AA to be so defensive. I even wonder how many of their TX SKB passengers were going to switch to SY given the strength of AA's DFW hub.

Maybe this isnt just about SY but its about increasing inroads by DL and UA and AAs need to minimize new entrants to prevent even further dilution what was once a virtual monopoly for them.


SKB? AA doesn't even operate DFW-SXM, DFW-STT or DFW-BGI


Just like what Barbados did for its idiotic flight from DFW, the government of St.Kitts in a very strong likelihood, paid AA for this service. Give it a few months and like DFW-BGI, this flight will be cancelled as well.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:36 am

Rookie87 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
There's AA being petty AAs heck, lol. AA already runs MIA-SKB and now its wanting to run off Sun Country on the currently non-existing DFW-SKB route? I totally get defending one's turf in a market that already exists, but dang...why not let Sun Country get its little bit of coin from running a summer only, one day a week only flight to a station that AA *clearly* knows doesn't have a strong market. I get maintaining market dominance, but an airline can NOT be everything to everyone -- there are just some markets best left for someone else to work with. AA has learned that with Asia and Europe.



That way of thinking allowed the LCCs to rise did it not? (My observation, no facts)

I actually like this new flight and am glad AA isn’t just going to sit back and let what happened at JFK with B6 happen ever again no matter how small the threat is.


And perhaps that is exactly the point. AA cannot compete on/at the JFK hub as a connector to their network. Apart from MIA (and perhaps CLT) what other Southern Hubs does AA have? Further, which other hub would be able to tap into as much connectivity as DFW without also being as competitively close to other major hubs (ORD, LAX, JFK, PHL)?
 
guyanam
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:13 am

AEROFAN wrote:
[
Just like what Barbados did for its idiotic flight from DFW, the government of St.Kitts in a very strong likelihood, paid AA for this service. Give it a few months and like DFW-BGI, this flight will be cancelled as well.


Not that I disagree with you but SKB has a successful service from ATL that operates except during the hurricane season, increasing to 2X during the winter. SKB has almost 5k people living on the island connected to its off shore educational sector so its passenger mix might be different from BGI's.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:17 pm

I hope JetBlue gets on the route as well, and run AA away.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:22 pm

guyanam wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
[
Just like what Barbados did for its idiotic flight from DFW, the government of St.Kitts in a very strong likelihood, paid AA for this service. Give it a few months and like DFW-BGI, this flight will be cancelled as well.


Not that I disagree with you but SKB has a successful service from ATL that operates except during the hurricane season, increasing to 2X during the winter. SKB has almost 5k people living on the island connected to its off shore educational sector so its passenger mix might be different from BGI's.


Is the Atlanta service on DL? I am surprised that DL is still once a week to BGI. I wonder why it doesn't have a flight from JFK while JetB, depending on the season, can have up to three daily flights from JFK.

Congrats to St.Kitts
 
stlgph
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Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:24 pm

guyanam wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
guyanam wrote:

SY is using SKB as a stand in for SXM as the latter is still in recovery. I bet that this summer will see the last of them as SXM will be back in force for 2019/20. SKB is more of an AA market than an SY. Even B6 doesnt go there.

AA might be doing this to make sure that they do leave, or that they dont set up in DFW. Petty yes as I doubt that SKB is so valuable to them to run a long thin route. They might be able to squeeze a guarantee out of a government that will be so excited about this route, mitigating the risk.


I highly doubt SY launched a long thin once weekly flight without some sort of third party backing (ie a travel agency selling week long packages to SKB).


The hotels in their package aren't the all inclusive sort that one will get from a mass market. Best will be some support from Marriott and 4 Seasons, plus a revenue guarantee. Not sure that the Park Hyatt crowd do Sun Country, even though its on offer..



and people flying Allegiant have been known to show up in Vegas and stay at the Wynn and drop $400 to see Celine.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Zidane
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:44 am

Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:29 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
guyanam wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
[
Just like what Barbados did for its idiotic flight from DFW, the government of St.Kitts in a very strong likelihood, paid AA for this service. Give it a few months and like DFW-BGI, this flight will be cancelled as well.


Not that I disagree with you but SKB has a successful service from ATL that operates except during the hurricane season, increasing to 2X during the winter. SKB has almost 5k people living on the island connected to its off shore educational sector so its passenger mix might be different from BGI's.


Is the Atlanta service on DL? I am surprised that DL is still once a week to BGI. I wonder why it doesn't have a flight from JFK while JetB, depending on the season, can have up to three daily flights from JFK.

Congrats to St.Kitts


Delta no longer flies to BGI.
SKB should really get B6 on board.
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: AA announces DFW-SKB

Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:19 am

Zidane wrote:
[

Delta no longer flies to BGI.
SKB should really get B6 on board.



SKB has UA, DL and AA on its NY route. Maybe they need to replace DL with B6. AA has promoted the island in some of its inflight materials so they need them, DL floats in and out of JFK Caribbean markets, GND being the latest casualty this year.
'
Also SKB has had some challenges in completing its hotel project, the only new one coming on stream has been the Park Hyatt. I suspect that B6 will look at this. They seem to be Sandals oriented. With Sandals no longer moving ahead with its TAB project I think there goes the prospects of a B6 JFK TAB flight.

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