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jetblastdubai
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U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:36 pm

Two US politicians have introduced a proposal/overview called the "Green New Deal". " ...what they foresee as a massive policy package that would remake the U.S. economy and, they hope, eliminate all U.S. carbon emissions.

Some aviation-related highlights in the proposal:

1. Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out highspeed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle
2. Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency
3. Ensure that all GND jobs are union jobs that pay prevailing wages and hire local
4. Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work

I checked several news sources to make sure this wasn't some type of hoax or SNL-type parody but it's actually reported as legit on several news outlets.

The Overview: https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf

In case you couldn't already figure out who is behind this. https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/69199730 ... al-outline

Enjoy...keep the discussion civil.
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CALMSP
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:44 pm

dont even need to click the link to know who this is.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:48 pm

I'll be thrilled if this is their platform in 2020. A real gift.
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FA9295
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:53 pm

Sigh... None of this is even worth discussing. Will never happen.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:54 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
I'll be thrilled if this is their platform in 2020. A real gift.


Here's the bullet point addressing air travel from the actual overview of the Green New Deal proposal:

"Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle
manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out highspeed
rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create
affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every
combustion-engine vehicle"


Source:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf
Last edited by tjwgrr on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:55 pm

It admits in the deal itself that it’s impossible to fund. I wouldn’t expect it to get off the drawing board.
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mfe777
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:58 pm

That source is not linked to anything but Breitbart and other far right news media, it's likely very fake. The NPR documents are real from the legislators, and contain nothing regarding air travel, therefore moderators should delete this thread. The farting cows, getting rid of planes, and supporting people who are unwilling to work is all fake crap.... please raise your standard of truth versus lies. Our nation depends on you realizing Breitbart and the like are out to deceive you.
Last edited by mfe777 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:59 pm

4 of the announced or expected Democrats for President are co-signers. Think about that for a moment.
 
blockski
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:01 pm

It's a bold first step. Airlines and the aviation industry ought to embrace the concept, particularly given the headwinds the industry will face with climate change.

There's always going to be a role for aviation that HSR and other alternatives can't replace, but if the US were to invest in HSR on the same scale as China has (and the Green New Deal envisions), it would likely relieve the airlines of much of the need to carry short-haul traffic.

Outside of the US, there's a lot of efficiency to be gained from integrating surface transport (via HSR) and air travel - it's a place where we've only just begun to tap the potential, and even then only at a handful of airports.

Regardless of the specifics of this congressional resolution, the two basic paths are quite clear. Either we massively de-carbonize our economy (including aviation) or we will deal with the massive impacts of climate change - which will not spare airports and aviation. Change is coming, one way or another.
 
mfe777
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:05 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
I'll be thrilled if this is their platform in 2020. A real gift.


Here's the bullet point addressing air travel from the actual overview of the Green New Deal proposal:

"Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle
manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out highspeed
rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create
affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every
combustion-engine vehicle"


Source:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf


Your quoting an "assets document cloud" article, not anything released by a US legislator. Anybody could have written and released that article. Please look at the actual documents released which contain none of this outrageous material, and do not refer to air travel whatsoever.
 
mfe777
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:10 pm

What is most tragic about you people who love to release and share fake documents, is that once they are released, the damage is done and continues to spread. Not everyone is going to see that this is fabricated, and will continue to spread this nonsense.
 
musman9853
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:24 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
I'll be thrilled if this is their platform in 2020. A real gift.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/politics ... index.html

pelosi and the rest of the dem leadership are completely ignoring this. it's a fringe policy by fringe lawmakers.
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blockski
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:25 pm

mfe777 wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
I'll be thrilled if this is their platform in 2020. A real gift.


Here's the bullet point addressing air travel from the actual overview of the Green New Deal proposal:

"Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle
manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out highspeed
rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create
affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every
combustion-engine vehicle"


Source:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf


Your quoting an "assets document cloud" article, not anything released by a US legislator. Anybody could have written and released that article. Please look at the actual documents released which contain none of this outrageous material, and do not refer to air travel whatsoever.


"Document Cloud' is just the hosting service. That FAQ document was released by Congresswoman AOC's office this morning, as reported here by NPR (and others): https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/69199730 ... al-outline

So, it is an actual document, but it's not part of the actual resolution introduced today in the House. It's just one member's talking points for a resolution with many more co-sponsors.
 
kalvado
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:26 pm

There is a draft document on NPR page. There are no words "air travel" or "airline" in the text. "Investment in... high speed rail" is the closest to the topic discussed
But overall document is... interesting. Call for all good things without a mention of who is paying for all that.
 
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Aesma
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:28 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
4 of the announced or expected Democrats for President are co-signers. Think about that for a moment.


Your president is Donald Trump. Think about that for a moment.
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mham001
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:30 pm

Aesma wrote:

Your president is Donald Trump. Think about that for a moment.


Now you know why.
 
mfe777
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:32 pm

blockski wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:

Here's the bullet point addressing air travel from the actual overview of the Green New Deal proposal:

"Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle
manufacturing, build charging stations everywhere, build out highspeed
rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary, create
affordable public transit available to all, with goal to replace every
combustion-engine vehicle"


Source:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf


Your quoting an "assets document cloud" article, not anything released by a US legislator. Anybody could have written and released that article. Please look at the actual documents released which contain none of this outrageous material, and do not refer to air travel whatsoever.


"Document Cloud' is just the hosting service. That FAQ document was released by Congresswoman AOC's office this morning, as reported here by NPR (and others): https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/69199730 ... al-outline

So, it is an actual document, but it's not part of the actual resolution introduced today in the House. It's just one member's talking points for a resolution with many more co-sponsors.



When you click on the NPR link to the "blog post" that this supposedly came from, the link goes to page not found. Also, on their uploaded doc, there is no claim to where it came from, and the "farting cows and replacing airplanes" content is at the end with no source on who said these questions and answers, and is not linked to anything official. If these legislators released this, I want to see something official. The only official document does not refer to air travel whatsoever, only clean air.

It also does not mention "financial support for those unwilling to work" as the original poster said. Neither document, the official nor the disputed, contains this language. Seems to be something Breitbart added just for giggles.
 
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PA110
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:35 pm

The idea that eliminating most air travel with high speed rail is completely ludicrous, however to be fair, US aviation infrastructure has been stretched by the massive growth in 70-seat short-haul routes. Do you really need to fly between ORD and MKE? Between JFK and BDL? Between SMF and SFO? High speed rail could THEORETICALLY eliminate a small portion of those routes and provide some congestion relief from some of our busiest airports.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:42 pm

That document is good enough for the NYT to link, maybe you just don’t like the details.

GF
 
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:44 pm

PA110 wrote:
The idea that eliminating most air travel with high speed rail is completely ludicrous, however to be fair, US aviation infrastructure has been stretched by the massive growth in 70-seat short-haul routes. Do you really need to fly between ORD and MKE? Between JFK and BDL? Between SMF and SFO? High speed rail could THEORETICALLY eliminate a small portion of those routes and provide some congestion relief from some of our busiest airports.


Just try buying the land for HSR for those city-pairs! They can’t afford it now.

GF
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:48 pm

PA110 wrote:
The idea that eliminating most air travel with high speed rail is completely ludicrous,

I don't think even the Democrats supporting the bill are advocating this, especially considering that the highest speed rail travels at just half the speed of a regular airliner at cruising altitude. But consider along the NE corridor where the regular traveler has to wait up to 4 hours to reach their destination (assuming travel between major cities and no delays or cancellations happen). They have to arrive 2 hours before departure to then spend an hour or so in the air before landing and getting off. A high speed rail, as you said, could be a more convenient solution, but only if the tracks are exclusively for it, which is Amtrak's problem at the moment.

Several states with major population centers and heavy travel between them stand to benefit: Texas with travel between Dallas, Austin, and Houston; California with travel between San Diego, LA, and San Francisco; Florida with travel between Orlando and Miami (maybe even hugging the east coast and making a stop in Fort Lauderdale); the Acela track states (Boston to NY to PHL to DC).

Heck, make it for travel between states: Phoenix to LA, Denver to Dallas, Minneapolis to Milwaukee and Chicago, Columbus to Baltimore (and so on).
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DrEsteban
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:59 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
PA110 wrote:
The idea that eliminating most air travel with high speed rail is completely ludicrous, however to be fair, US aviation infrastructure has been stretched by the massive growth in 70-seat short-haul routes. Do you really need to fly between ORD and MKE? Between JFK and BDL? Between SMF and SFO? High speed rail could THEORETICALLY eliminate a small portion of those routes and provide some congestion relief from some of our busiest airports.


Just try buying the land for HSR for those city-pairs! They can’t afford it now.

GF


They don't have to be able to afford it..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

That's the "beauty" of socialism. Individual freedom is eliminated in order to serve the greater good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.
Last edited by DrEsteban on Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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lebda
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:01 pm

This is blown way out of proportion. This all appears speculative, and there's no chance in hell it's gonna stop air travel, or that it's even going to get up off the ground for that matter.

4. Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work


How is this relevant? Why do you need to shoehorn your "bootstraps" rhetoric into this?
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Aesma
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:08 pm

There is a controversy these days about high speed rail here in France, not about its cost, or the "lost freedom", but rather about the rise in real estate prices at the other end of the lines from Paris, especially in Lille, Lyon, Marseille, and for the last few years Bordeaux, with prices increasing 10-15% per year for several years in a row, making many people rich, and many others unable to afford a home.
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Kilopond
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:48 pm

Neomarxism at it`s best! What they need to do next is engaging the infamous EJW (enviromental justice warrior) Greta Thunberg. (Search the net for that child soldier of the pseudo-left-green vassal army of the City and the Wall Street).
 
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rotating14
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:55 pm

Lol, "expanding high speed rail" You need to have high speed rail in order to expand your high speed rail systems.

This is NEVER going to happen. China has 500 times the amount of track that the US has. Guess what? They still need aircraft to fly within the Chinese mainland.

The technology for EV has been available for decades yet combustion engines are still in full control of the majority of the cars, trucks and trains today. Sure EVs and charging stations are popping up but there's no way travel between New York and Los Angeles will be done by high speed rail. Especially if airline lobbyists have a say in the matter.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:59 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
PA110 wrote:
The idea that eliminating most air travel with high speed rail is completely ludicrous,

I don't think even the Democrats supporting the bill are advocating this, especially considering that the highest speed rail travels at just half the speed of a regular airliner at cruising altitude. But consider along the NE corridor where the regular traveler has to wait up to 4 hours to reach their destination (assuming travel between major cities and no delays or cancellations happen). They have to arrive 2 hours before departure to then spend an hour or so in the air before landing and getting off. A high speed rail, as you said, could be a more convenient solution, but only if the tracks are exclusively for it, which is Amtrak's problem at the moment.

Several states with major population centers and heavy travel between them stand to benefit: Texas with travel between Dallas, Austin, and Houston; California with travel between San Diego, LA, and San Francisco; Florida with travel between Orlando and Miami (maybe even hugging the east coast and making a stop in Fort Lauderdale); the Acela track states (Boston to NY to PHL to DC).

Heck, make it for travel between states: Phoenix to LA, Denver to Dallas, Minneapolis to Milwaukee and Chicago, Columbus to Baltimore (and so on).


The problem is buying up the rights of way, if you want HSR on a European/Japanese style. The current ROW are totally unsuitable—too sharp curves, too many stations, too many crossings, too much freigh5 traffic. All the true HSR systems have dedicated ROW and infrastructure. Cali’s system is $77 billion and connects nowhere to nowhere. Imagine buying up ROW in the Northeast, southern Florida on between LA and SAN. The Acela peaks at 125mph and only for a short distance between Mansfield MA and Rhode Island. Add in the politicians who’d want stops at every town and it’s not likely.

That said, I’d agree, if we’d gone down the HSR path 50 or 60 years ago, it’d been a good idea.

GF
 
Pyrex
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:10 am

Ohh, she just went full retard. Everybody knows you never go full retard.
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DL717
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:20 am

Well, I’m glad I’ve been to Hawaii. Won’t be any way to get there after this. Good luck Hawaii! There’s not enough demand to justify a choo choo tunnel to the mainland. Coast to coast in a day! What a country!!!

This chick is batshit crazy and a complete idiot. Someone take away the crayons. Well, maybe not. Let her and her pals keep going. It’ll make them unelectable. I’m sure Boeing and Airbus are shaking. :rotfl:
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jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:04 am

The reading comprehension on here is atrocious. No one is proposing high speed rail to eliminate air travel. It is saying fund high speed rail to service levels that compete with air travel. Obviously high speed rail will not be able to compete over certain distances. Good Lord.

If you want to debate that as a policy, fine. Herb Keller had no problem doing so without screaming with his panties on fire on top of his head or having a self-indulgent (however true-to-form) circle jerk about a 2,500 mi tunnel to Hawaii.

Otherwise you guys are all just be dramatic, ideological, and obtuse.
Last edited by jetero on Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:05 am

DrEsteban wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
PA110 wrote:
The idea that eliminating most air travel with high speed rail is completely ludicrous, however to be fair, US aviation infrastructure has been stretched by the massive growth in 70-seat short-haul routes. Do you really need to fly between ORD and MKE? Between JFK and BDL? Between SMF and SFO? High speed rail could THEORETICALLY eliminate a small portion of those routes and provide some congestion relief from some of our busiest airports.


Just try buying the land for HSR for those city-pairs! They can’t afford it now.

GF


They don't have to be able to afford it..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

That's the "beauty" of socialism. Individual freedom is eliminated in order to serve the greater good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.


I don’t know why you associate “eminent domain” with socialism.

If you’re such a (presumably) supporter of the aviation industry, how in the hell do you think airports got built? Through the magic of private enterprise?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:22 am

I don't get why the development of high-speed rail is so detested. China's been developing high speed rail lines by the thousands of miles.
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jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:24 am

All I can say AOC is KEEP IT UP!

The ludicrously unhinged reactions you are getting make it all worth it.

Nothing wrong with some new ideas, even if they won't get anywhere.

I guess this is called AOC DERANGEMENT SYNDROME.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:25 am

Then again, we haven’t built a sizable new airport in decades—DEN and RSW might be the last ones for airline ops, neither was especially hard to find open land for.

GF
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:27 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I don't get why the development of high-speed rail is so detested. China's been developing high speed rail lines by the thousands of miles.


There’s a difference between Chinese government and US government in acquiring land, booting out residents and businesses. That and cost overruns.

GF
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:28 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then again, we haven’t built a sizable new airport in decades—DEN and RSW might be the last ones for airline ops, neither was especially hard to find open land for.

GF


Um, no. But I wouldn’t expect any less from my new fave.

Why don’t you look into how land has been acquired for airport expansion at ATL, IAH, CLT, LAX, ORD, etc, etc?
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:30 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then again, we haven’t built a sizable new airport in decades—DEN and RSW might be the last ones for airline ops, neither was especially hard to find open land for.

GF


Um, no. But I wouldn’t expect any less from my new fave.

Why don’t you look into how land has been acquired for airport expansion at ATL, IAH, CLT, LAX, ORD, etc, etc?

Then there’s the case of highways, er, everywhere.

Or eminent domain for the benefit of private companies, including HSR in Texas but plenty of other examples elsewhere.

You and Doc Esteban must be really against the WALL by that standard.
 
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seb146
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:34 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I don't get why the development of high-speed rail is so detested. China's been developing high speed rail lines by the thousands of miles.


There’s a difference between Chinese government and US government in acquiring land, booting out residents and businesses. That and cost overruns.

GF


That and Republicans saying "we don't need HSR" over and over again. We just went to Los Angeles for Christmas and I can not tell you how many double decker buses we saw on I-5 going between San Francisco and Los Angeles. Don't tell me there is no market for HSR.

Fossil fuel is a finite resource. It WILL run out and it DOES pollute our environment. We need something else sooner rather than later. And why not build it here? We know we can. We have the factories and natural resources that can use less and less pollutants. Seems like a no-brainer to me but I am just a Democrat, so what do I know?
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:38 am

DL717 wrote:
Well, I’m glad I’ve been to Hawaii. Won’t be any way to get there after this. Good luck Hawaii! There’s not enough demand to justify a choo choo tunnel to the mainland. Coast to coast in a day! What a country!!!

This chick is batshit crazy and a complete idiot. Someone take away the crayons. Well, maybe not. Let her and her pals keep going. It’ll make them unelectable. I’m sure Boeing and Airbus are shaking. :rotfl:


Maybe AOC 's green plan includes green passenger ships to go abroad. Solar panels to power. Or maybe Lighter than Air with solar panels??

AOC may be behind MOGA - Making Oceanliners Great Again.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:55 am

Let us know how the HSR in Cali works out. I do know it’s an impossible dream on the east coast-no affordable land. They can’t add a lane to any highways here due to cost.

I am not arguing any side on eminent domain, just the fair market cost which is involved.

GF
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:59 am

jetero wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then again, we haven’t built a sizable new airport in decades—DEN and RSW might be the last ones for airline ops, neither was especially hard to find open land for.

GF


Um, no. But I wouldn’t expect any less from my new fave.

Why don’t you look into how land has been acquired for airport expansion at ATL, IAH, CLT, LAX, ORD, etc, etc?

Then there’s the case of highways, er, everywhere.

Or eminent domain for the benefit of private companies, including HSR in Texas but plenty of other examples elsewhere.

You and Doc Esteban must be really against the WALL by that standard.


I said NEW airports, dummy! Of course, eminent domain has been used, but you still have to pay for the takings. And satisfy the public who, being NIMBY, will oppose it us8ng every means possible. Imagine plowing thru Fairfield and West Chester counties.
.

GF
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:03 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
jetero wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then again, we haven’t built a sizable new airport in decades—DEN and RSW might be the last ones for airline ops, neither was especially hard to find open land for.

GF


Um, no. But I wouldn’t expect any less from my new fave.

Why don’t you look into how land has been acquired for airport expansion at ATL, IAH, CLT, LAX, ORD, etc, etc?

Then there’s the case of highways, er, everywhere.

Or eminent domain for the benefit of private companies, including HSR in Texas but plenty of other examples elsewhere.

You and Doc Esteban must be really against the WALL by that standard.


I said NEW airports, dummy! Of course, eminent domain has been used, but you still have to pay for the takings.
.

GF


Yes, that's how eminent domain works.

What's your point?

Because a new airport hasn't been built in a while, that eminent domain shouldn't be used for high speed rail?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:15 am

I didn’t say it shouldn’t, I said it’s still very expensive. Witness the billions spent in California and it won’t connect LA and SFO as presently designed. Show me a rail system that actually generates a profit by any standard.
 
NIKV69
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:26 am

I wonder at what point they take this woman in a room and try to talk some sense into her. It was the class war and the pie in the sky stuff that contributed to the Dems losing the White House and the last thing they need is more of it. Even CNN who you would think has some sense would say why are we making this person the new up and comer? They yell at Schultz that he is killing their chances if he runs and then make the whole party look like a bunch of nutbags with no realistic policy ideas, just more of the propaganda, Santa Claus we can reinvent the wheel routine.

The Democratic Primary will truly be entertaining. I can not wait.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:46 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I didn’t say it shouldn’t, I said it’s still very expensive. Witness the billions spent in California and it won’t connect LA and SFO as presently designed. Show me a rail system that actually generates a profit by any standard.


I thought you of all people would know that none of this proposal involves generating a profit!

Image
 
aviationaware
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:50 am

I wasn't shocked that this was introduced by Dyslexia.

But I have to admit I was truly shocked at the fact that more than 60 House Democrats and 9 Senate Democrats co-sponsored that crap.

They have lost the last bit of grip on reality. Breathtaking.
 
aviationaware
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:03 am

lebda wrote:
This is blown way out of proportion. This all appears speculative, and there's no chance in hell it's gonna stop air travel, or that it's even going to get up off the ground for that matter.


It's not about the realism of it. This is obviously going nowhere. This is about the fact that this actually resonates with a large portion of Democratic lawmakers. Really frightening.
 
philabos
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:04 am

Two years ago there was a plan to reroute Amtrak from Old Saybrook CT to Kenyon RI to speed the New York to Boston service.
Protests erupted, both Connecticut Senators and the Governor, as well as the House Representatives all opposed. One Comgressman threatened to defund the NEC.
The plan was dropped.
Now multiply that instance by and infinite number and see how far you get.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:14 am

I never liked him and voted against him in 2016, but I'll vote for Trump in 2020 if it means keeping air travel and keeping these traitors out of power.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2825
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:16 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I don't get why the development of high-speed rail is so detested. China's been developing high speed rail lines by the thousands of miles.


It's just not profitable when you include infrastructure costs.
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