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adamh8297
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:34 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Nope PDX BOS not going to happen...next

And why exactly would you say that...?


Not sure if Blueknows means DL or B6 but hasn't AS defended this route a bit even loading double daily in winter to keep B6 from going year-round?

Also - I've read 500 people relocate to PDX each week and that rate has been higher in the early part of the decade. Some came from BOS and those that do not may be the type that want to visit.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Blueknows
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:35 pm

That not true. They will Be doing pockets sessions/ via conference calls
Jfk/MCO/FLL/SJU/LGB.
March 4 mco/FLL
March 12 lgb+SJU
Match 18 Jfk
These are dates of calls
 
MIflyer12
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:38 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Where's that year-round extension on PDX-BOS...? C'mon now. If they can have two daily flights in the summer, then surely they can have at least one in the fall/winter/spring as well.


I agree, it's pretty sad that they can't make PDXBOS work even 1x year-end (or even like 4x/week). PDX is probably B6's worst West Coast market. Even from JFK they struggle.


PDX, for all its growth, is still a heavily seasonal airport. Like SEA but nowhere near as big in O&D. Some routes just aren't going to work. Checking an April Monday there's still 2x DL, 2X AS, and 2X UA on NYC-PDX.
 
uconn99
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:53 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Dropping Dca-TPA and DCA-BDL


Ive flown DCA-BDL many times and its always full, but AA flying up to 7x daily is tough to beat. Hoping this will cause AA to up gauge a few flights as a lot of AA DCA-BDL is CRJ service.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:59 pm

Surprised B6 hasn’t added IND yet, IND is one of(if not the best) performing DL connection route from BOS. And WN is dropping from 2x daily to Sat Only.

Plus you have companies like Liberty Mutal, Raytheon, Eli Lilly, Reebok/Adidas, e.t.c frequenting the route.
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
VS11
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:18 am

Way to go jetBlue! I was getting tired of reading here how they didn't know what they were doing and lacking direction and bad management and bad operations and whatever. They know very well what they are doing and are focusing on serving a market where they have built a serious market share, and are extremely well recognized and received. Bring it on!
 
Oilman
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:19 am

Does anyone have a comparison of the old vs new schedules between BOS and NYC?
 
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FA9295
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:37 am

adamh8297 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Nope PDX BOS not going to happen...next

And why exactly would you say that...?


Not sure if Blueknows means DL or B6 but hasn't AS defended this route a bit even loading double daily in winter to keep B6 from going year-round?

Also - I've read 500 people relocate to PDX each week and that rate has been higher in the early part of the decade. Some came from BOS and those that do not may be the type that want to visit.

IIRC, the double daily operation on that route is only in the summer months and the holiday rush in November/December.
 
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FA9295
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:37 am

adamh8297 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Nope PDX BOS not going to happen...next

And why exactly would you say that...?


Not sure if Blueknows means DL or B6 but hasn't AS defended this route a bit even loading double daily in winter to keep B6 from going year-round?

Also - I've read 500 people relocate to PDX each week and that rate has been higher in the early part of the decade. Some came from BOS and those that do not may be the type that want to visit.

IIRC, the double daily operation on that route is only in the summer months and the holiday rush in November/December.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:46 am

RollerRB211 wrote:
Swadian wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Amtrak sells out frequently on DC-philly-NY-BOS, it leaves the airlines some space. Demand is too high for Amtrak to keep up especially Acela. I use to commute NY-DC frequently and Amtrak is a better product in every way but when schedules changed Amtrak you would hit sold out trains too frequently and it made it harder to shift things last minute when plans changed for business. The airlines shuttles always had seats to adjust. Amtrak plans to boost capacity are a long time away still and will run late.


Amtrak suffers dilution from intermediate stops, so actual load factor is in the 60s. Dilution happens when a NYC - PHL passenger takes a seat that could otherwise be sold to a more profitable NYC - DCA passenger, making it seem like trains are "SOLD OUT" when they're actually not. Dilution increases exponentially the bigger an imbalance between city pairs along a route grows. That's why Acela actually runs a loss below the rails.


There is a very simple revenue management solution to these problems. Why hasn't Amtrak made the easy change?


Amtrak can't just add more trains. Some of those tunnels and tracks are too busy already. You have all the commuter rail lines into each station etc. It's almost dangerous how crowded those rails are right now.
 
soflaflyer
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:35 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
RollerRB211 wrote:
Swadian wrote:

Amtrak suffers dilution from intermediate stops, so actual load factor is in the 60s. Dilution happens when a NYC - PHL passenger takes a seat that could otherwise be sold to a more profitable NYC - DCA passenger, making it seem like trains are "SOLD OUT" when they're actually not. Dilution increases exponentially the bigger an imbalance between city pairs along a route grows. That's why Acela actually runs a loss below the rails.


There is a very simple revenue management solution to these problems. Why hasn't Amtrak made the easy change?


Amtrak can't just add more trains. Some of those tunnels and tracks are too busy already. You have all the commuter rail lines into each station etc. It's almost dangerous how crowded those rails are right now.


That's an operational solution. A Revenue Management solution would be along the lines of limiting the seats sold on the DCA-PHL sector to allow more purchases on the DCA-NYC sector.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:49 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Surprised B6 hasn’t added IND yet, IND is one of(if not the best) performing DL connection route from BOS. And WN is dropping from 2x daily to Sat Only.


I'm not sure of your route logic. A financially strong carrier with (until the mechanics' issue) decent operational record is cutting service (suggesting it's not lucrative) so another carrier ought to try?
 
jumbojet
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:15 am

VS11 wrote:
and lacking direction and bad management and bad operations and whatever. They know very well what they are doing and are focusing on serving a market where they have built a serious market share, and are extremely well recognized and received. Bring it on!


Their operations are nothing short of a disaster. I don't know how adding more flights to BOS is even going to help that. On a good day, they delay as much as 10% of their BOS ops. On a bad day, it can be 3x as much. That is not good operations.

Delta isnt going anywhere, a bad economy, they aren't going to retreat, DL has as much of a presence as B6 does in BOS. B6 is feeling the heat and there is only so much they can do without being a true international powerhouse.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:29 am

jumbojet wrote:
VS11 wrote:
and lacking direction and bad management and bad operations and whatever. They know very well what they are doing and are focusing on serving a market where they have built a serious market share, and are extremely well recognized and received. Bring it on!


Their operations are nothing short of a disaster. I don't know how adding more flights to BOS is even going to help that. On a good day, they delay as much as 10% of their BOS ops. On a bad day, it can be 3x as much. That is not good operations.

Delta isnt going anywhere, a bad economy, they aren't going to retreat, DL has as much of a presence as B6 does in BOS. B6 is feeling the heat and there is only so much they can do without being a true international powerhouse.


Confucius say: Man with big DL stick fall hard when stick breaks
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
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enilria
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:40 am

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Seems that DCA-TPA/BDL are both being dropped (which makes sense given that TPA is the lowest yielding of the Florida markets, where B6 is not strong anyway, and I can't imagine BDL performs all that well either).

It appears to me they have 2 BDL RTs, 1 TPA RT, and 10 BOS RTs on weekdays. I guess that gets them close. Perhaps the 14th flight is in an essentially unslotted hour like 2100 or 0600.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:10 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Surprised B6 hasn’t added IND yet, IND is one of(if not the best) performing DL connection route from BOS. And WN is dropping from 2x daily to Sat Only.


I'm not sure of your route logic. A financially strong carrier with (until the mechanics' issue) decent operational record is cutting service (suggesting it's not lucrative) so another carrier ought to try?


A financially strong carrier that is:

1. Losing corporate contracts in IND
2. Decreasing their presence in IND (cut NYC, BOS, DCA)
3. Had no point of sale strength on either end of IND-BOS
4. Did not have the right-size aircraft for the route

WN was not suited for the route, B6 is much better suited, because:

1. They have point of sale strength in BOS
2. They have the right-sized aircraft for the route

IND-BOS is a sizable market for one carrier
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:12 am

ScottB wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Of note is the Shuttle service to DCA, and Shuttle-like service to JFK/EWR/LGA.


I find the "Shuttle-like service to JFK/EWR/LGA" to be underwhelming and mostly just a rearrangement of the 16 daily flights they already offer. The press release only mentions EWR (of the three primary NYC airports) receiving additional service to/from BOS. But honestly, how many business travelers from BOS to NYC are just looking to go to NYC and don't care which NYC airport they're traveling to/from?

not 16, 18.

7x ewr, 6x lga and 5x jfk. they have shifted some frequency over to EWR from JFK, because those JFK slots are really valuable and short haul E90 operations are not a good way to use them. Maybe you will see more A320s out of JFK.

In addition, B6 is already the dominant player on JFK-BOS market, but has a much weaker schedule than UA out of EWR. And now with DL entering EWR, it can ensure having a significantly better schedule than DL with 7 flights.

FA9295 wrote:
Where's that year-round extension on PDX-BOS...? C'mon now. If they can have two daily flights in the summer, then surely they can have at least one in the fall/winter/spring as well.

I still say they wait until A220. Right now, the summer only PDX-BOS is decently profitable. With their lack of presence at PDX, I don't think you will see that change too much.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Where's that year-round extension on PDX-BOS...? C'mon now. If they can have two daily flights in the summer, then surely they can have at least one in the fall/winter/spring as well.


I agree, it's pretty sad that they can't make PDXBOS work even 1x year-end (or even like 4x/week). PDX is probably B6's worst West Coast market. Even from JFK they struggle.

They do struggle from JFK, but it's also the worst timed flight of any competition. I think PDX will go to A220 from both BOS/JFK eventually.

As noted above DL will soon launch BOSDCA. Additionally, these additional flights are not yet loaded into the schedule. B6 will be running 14x on BOSDCA, not 11x, although I suspect that it will be all-E190 (with maybe one A320 thrown in).

BOS-DCA requires frequency. DL will be very uncompetitive here. on BOS-LGA right now, B6 yield is 2/3 of DL's yield due to its low frequency. At BOS-DCA, I wouldn't be surprised if DL with 6 daily end up only getting 2/3 to 3/4 of AA/B6 yield.

ScottB wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Totally fair point, it's more or less a marketing gimmick. Although to a certain extent I think there is a market for people who will look at both EWR and LGA schedules, and will mix-and-match if needed (myself included), especially if their final destination or origin is Midtown Manhattan.


One issue I see here is that they've only committed to bottom-of-the-hour departures from BOS. If the return schedules are less convenient that will be problematic. Moreover, I think business passengers aren't going to be eager to fly into one airport and return from another -- that just gets complicated when dealing with ground transportation. One of the key points of the Shuttle service is to make it as frictionless as possible (given the constraints of weather and ATC). That's why the DL and AA Shuttles usually depart from a small subset of gates and B6 has tried to do that with their BOS-LGA flights. Dealing with multiple NYC airports isn't frictionless.


You are 100% right here. If they really want to go all in with BOS. They should drop either PBI or MCO and go to 9 or 10 daily on BOS-LGA. That ensures they will be competitive in that market. This spread the wealth approach is just marketing. Right now, BOS-LGA is a major money looser.

johnboy wrote:
Surprised they don’t try out markets like SDF-BOS, as I see B6 as the only real chance for that route.

Yep, another huge disappointment for me. They need to add new markets out of BOS like SDF and MEM. Ones without any competition.

SANFan wrote:

Ummm, should I assume from your lists Blueknows that Blue is dropping all service to the rest of the country? For example, no west coast service any more? Sorry to see that...

bb

nope, they are still going to be a leading player to SEA/SFO/LAX/SAN. BOS-SAN is one of their most profitable market. They are adding service there, not taking away.

uconn99 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Dropping Dca-TPA and DCA-BDL


Ive flown DCA-BDL many times and its always full, but AA flying up to 7x daily is tough to beat. Hoping this will cause AA to up gauge a few flights as a lot of AA DCA-BDL is CRJ service.

I really disagree with their choice here. Their worst markets out of DCA are MCO, CHS and JAX followed by TPA and BDL. They are clearly not dropping MCO. I think JAX and CHS would be obvious choice here, but I guess they think some of that BDL traffic will go to BOS and TPA traffic will go to MCO? Who knows, time for them to upgauge to A320 on DCA-FLL/MCO. They need to add more to BDL, which is a very strong market for B6.

Midwestindy wrote:
Surprised B6 hasn’t added IND yet, IND is one of(if not the best) performing DL connection route from BOS. And WN is dropping from 2x daily to Sat Only.

Plus you have companies like Liberty Mutal, Raytheon, Eli Lilly, Reebok/Adidas, e.t.c frequenting the route.

Yep, another mistake they are making. Not sure why they are so afraid to open a new station. Maybe they are waiting for more aircraft availability.

jumbojet wrote:
Delta isnt going anywhere, a bad economy, they aren't going to retreat, DL has as much of a presence as B6 does in BOS. B6 is feeling the heat and there is only so much they can do without being a true international powerhouse.

in a bad economy, DL (which btw had same margin as B6 in Q4) will cut routes from its worst performing stations, which will be BOS/RDU/SEA. It's amazing with all the adds DL put into these markets, they have not gained any additional point of sale. Quite amazing.

MIflyer12 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Surprised B6 hasn’t added IND yet, IND is one of(if not the best) performing DL connection route from BOS. And WN is dropping from 2x daily to Sat Only.


I'm not sure of your route logic. A financially strong carrier with (until the mechanics' issue) decent operational record is cutting service (suggesting it's not lucrative) so another carrier ought to try?

WN is very uncompetitive out of BOS. It looses money even to fortress hubs like DAL/HOU/BWI. IND was a huge struggle for WN. On the other hand, B6 has stronger point of sale out of BOS than DL. Think about it this way, it is stronger carrier on BOS-RDU than DL.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:14 am

enilria wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Seems that DCA-TPA/BDL are both being dropped (which makes sense given that TPA is the lowest yielding of the Florida markets, where B6 is not strong anyway, and I can't imagine BDL performs all that well either).

It appears to me they have 2 BDL RTs, 1 TPA RT, and 10 BOS RTs on weekdays. I guess that gets them close. Perhaps the 14th flight is in an essentially unslotted hour like 2100 or 0600.

one sad byproduct of all this is that they are getting less competitive in DC area.
 
catiii
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:40 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Cool So jetbluefan can you just go into saber for me and pull up flights for BOS Dca??? Didn't think so... They are all e190 no airbus320


I would start looking at United, Delta, or American openings. Sounds like this operation is almost done.


lolz. you couldn't get hired at DL, UA, or AA.
 
catiii
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:41 am

Midwestindy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Surprised B6 hasn’t added IND yet, IND is one of(if not the best) performing DL connection route from BOS. And WN is dropping from 2x daily to Sat Only.


I'm not sure of your route logic. A financially strong carrier with (until the mechanics' issue) decent operational record is cutting service (suggesting it's not lucrative) so another carrier ought to try?


A financially strong carrier that is:

1. Losing corporate contracts in IND
2. Decreasing their presence in IND (cut NYC, BOS, DCA)
3. Had no point of sale strength on either end of IND-BOS
4. Did not have the right-size aircraft for the route

WN was not suited for the route, B6 is much better suited, because:

1. They have point of sale strength in BOS
2. They have the right-sized aircraft for the route

IND-BOS is a sizable market for one carrier


Be careful. You're applying logic and smarts to your argument. You'll get flamed on here!
 
jplatts
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:42 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Surprised B6 hasn’t added IND yet, IND is one of(if not the best) performing DL connection route from BOS. And WN is dropping from 2x daily to Sat Only.


The top domestic destinations in the contiguous U.S. traveled to from BOS that aren't currently served by B6 include IND, CMH, MCI, STL, CVG, MKE, ORF, SAT, MYR, and SDF.

I agree that B6 adding service to IND might happen since IND is one of the top destinations traveled to from BOS that isn't currently served by B6.

B6 reentering CMH might happen since B6 has reentered a few other destinations that it previously pulled out of such as ATL, BNA, and ONT during the last 3 years.

While WN will still have daily nonstop service to MCI and MKE from BOS, WN will only be operating 1 daily nonstop in each direction on BOS-MCI and BOS-MKE in Summer 2019 compare to 2 daily nonstops in Summer 2018.

In addition to adding service to IND and reentering CMH, B6 could also add service to MCI, CVG, and MKE in the Midwest.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:13 am

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Interesting that they are adding ORD, I thought they didn't have enough gates, did something change? I would love to see them add more flights to ORD in the future.


Unfortunately I think this comes at the expense of one of the JFKORD frequencies, which are only loaded at 2x this summer. Bummer, since JFKORD is a profitable market for B6, but something has got to give since B6 has only one gate.
They go back to 3 flights in September. Not sure if they will go back down to 2 after October because that’s as far as their website shows.

enilria wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
jetbluefan1 wrote:
http://blueir.investproductions.com/investor-relations/press-releases/2019/02-27-2019-184504961

There are a couple other threads floating around about JetBlue in general, but I think this deserves its own thread. (Some of this has been addressed in the weekly OAG thread which Enilria graciously posts, but not everything has been captured.)

Of note is the Shuttle service to DCA, and Shuttle-like service to JFK/EWR/LGA. My question is where the additional DCA slots are coming from (or what they're dropping).


This hourly shuttle is big news. No doubt it deserves a thread. So where are the DCA slots coming from? They are dropping a lot of Florida unless they’ve gotten slots from AS or somewhere.


Yeah, a Shuttle running 14x a day on the hour is a true "shuttle" like the old times. Does AA still fly a shuttle in this market too? Can't imagine they will be too happy about this, although this move seems to be squarely aimed at DL.

Seems that DCA-TPA/BDL are both being dropped (which makes sense given that TPA is the lowest yielding of the Florida markets, where B6 is not strong anyway, and I can't imagine BDL performs all that well either).

evank516 wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
Might not be big enough market to support another airline. DL, AA, and UA already fly NYC-DC. Plus Amtrak has taken traffic from the airlines.


DL and AA are the only airlines flying from LGA/JFK-DCA. It's certainly big enough to support B6, and with their popular product people would use it since AA and DL have resorted to mostly RJs on the route. The same argument could be made for NYC-Boston too, which all three airlines fly from at least one of the major NYC Airports, plus Amtrak from Penn Station but they make it work.


B6 has very little reason to re-enter the NYC-DC market. The local (air) market is next to nothing, and B6's NYC operations are hyper focused on serving local demand. Not only that, but those limited DCA slots are a lot more valuable being put into markets with significant local demand where B6 can offer a competitive schedule.

BOS-NYC is a different ballgame since B6 is catering to the BOS-based business traveler.

They go up to 3 flights a day ORD-JFK starting in September. Not sure how long it lasts because the website won’t show past October. B6 will move to the G concourse at ORD along with AS in the next month. I’m guessing they will be able to share gates when necessary because B6 will have 10 flights a day ( 6 BOS 3 JFK 1 FLL) while AS will have 11 flights I believe ( 5 SEA 2 PDX 2 SFO 1 ANC 1 LAX). Last I heard was that AS would get 2 gates and B6 would get 1 gate but maybe something has changed since the last time I asked.
 
jumbojet
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:12 pm

Actually when it comes to international passenger traffic out of BOS, JetBlue falls way behind Delta and will continue to do so with all the DL international expansion set to take place this year and undoubtedly in years to come.


https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=1
 
airbazar
Posts: 9499
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:44 pm

jumbojet wrote:
VS11 wrote:
and lacking direction and bad management and bad operations and whatever. They know very well what they are doing and are focusing on serving a market where they have built a serious market share, and are extremely well recognized and received. Bring it on!


Their operations are nothing short of a disaster. I don't know how adding more flights to BOS is even going to help that. On a good day, they delay as much as 10% of their BOS ops. On a bad day, it can be 3x as much. That is not good operations.

And yet they continue to grow and the public continues to patronize their business. Makes you wonder how much worse the rest of the competition must be.

jumbojet wrote:
Actually when it comes to international passenger traffic out of BOS, JetBlue falls way behind Delta and will continue to do so with all the DL international expansion set to take place this year and undoubtedly in years to come.

That's because B6's strategy for international service is different than that of DL. While DL serves more routes with its own metal, B6 uses its partners. I bet if you were to count the amount of B6 passengers who connect to international airlines at BOS you'd get a very different picture.
 
tsnamm
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 3:28 am

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:19 pm

Blueknows wrote:
ALL EXTENDED SERVICE
STARTS SEPT 4
Aus 2x 320
Chs 3x 2 320/1 190
Ord 6x 190
Cle 4x 190
Dtw 4x 3 190/1 320
Bna 3x 320
Ewr 5x 190
Mco 6x 320/321
Phl 8x 190
Rdu 7x 190
Sav 2x 320
Dca-near hourly service 0600-2200 weekdays
(e190/airbus 320/321(all core 200 seats)



They also do 6x BOS-BWI with the 190
 
stlgph
Posts: 10959
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:07 pm

catiii wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I'm not sure of your route logic. A financially strong carrier with (until the mechanics' issue) decent operational record is cutting service (suggesting it's not lucrative) so another carrier ought to try?


A financially strong carrier that is:

1. Losing corporate contracts in IND
2. Decreasing their presence in IND (cut NYC, BOS, DCA)
3. Had no point of sale strength on either end of IND-BOS
4. Did not have the right-size aircraft for the route

WN was not suited for the route, B6 is much better suited, because:

1. They have point of sale strength in BOS
2. They have the right-sized aircraft for the route

IND-BOS is a sizable market for one carrier


Be careful. You're applying logic and smarts to your argument. You'll get flamed on here!



Roundtrip fares are routinely south of $250, if not $200. For whatever the reason, a large number of people believe IND/BOS prints more money than can be found in the lost city of gold.

Wasn't the case. Still isn't the case. Won't the case anytime soon.

I have no idea what the obsession here is.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 3925
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:32 pm

stlgph wrote:
catiii wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

A financially strong carrier that is:

1. Losing corporate contracts in IND
2. Decreasing their presence in IND (cut NYC, BOS, DCA)
3. Had no point of sale strength on either end of IND-BOS
4. Did not have the right-size aircraft for the route

WN was not suited for the route, B6 is much better suited, because:

1. They have point of sale strength in BOS
2. They have the right-sized aircraft for the route

IND-BOS is a sizable market for one carrier


Be careful. You're applying logic and smarts to your argument. You'll get flamed on here!



Roundtrip fares are routinely south of $250, if not $200. For whatever the reason, a large number of people believe IND/BOS prints more money than can be found in the lost city of gold.

Wasn't the case. Still isn't the case. Won't the case anytime soon.

I have no idea what the obsession here is.


Have you looked at the fare data from the DOT? If you haven’t then that would explain why you think that....

Most tickets are bought inside of 3-4 weeks where prices are significantly higher. And once WN cuts back it will be worse.
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
blockski
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:16 pm

Just something to note from MWAA's CAFR document regarding DCA's markets - BOS is the single largest O&D market from DCA:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=181

They also have a 10 year history, showing how the biggest O&D markets at DCA have changed:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=183

Note that in 2008, LGA was both much higher on the rank list and a much larger O&D market (760k/yr) than it is today (418k/yr). I wish they had data going back a bit further, but I think a lot of this is the continued Acela effect for DC-NYC travel.
 
FSDan
Posts: 2418
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:35 pm

tphuang wrote:
...its worst performing stations, which will be BOS/RDU/SEA. It's amazing with all the adds DL put into these markets, they have not gained any additional point of sale. Quite amazing.


What's the basis for this claim? Hard to believe DL would continue adding to these markets if they're not seeing positive benefits for their network and/or corporate traffic... Less hard to believe at BOS since they're still right in the middle of their expansion and there are quite a few important markets they don't serve yet, but at RDU or SEA I'd be very surprised if DL hasn't seen marked improvement over a few years ago.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:50 pm

Blueknows wrote:
That not true. They will Be doing pockets sessions/ via conference calls
Jfk/MCO/FLL/SJU/LGB.
March 4 mco/FLL
March 12 lgb+SJU
Match 18 Jfk
These are dates of calls


It will Be interesting to hear what changes they have planned for LGB and SJU.
This additional flying out east has to come from somewhere else in the system since JetBlue not getting that many aircraft this year.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6553
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:51 pm

tphuang wrote:
not 16, 18

7x ewr, 6x lga and 5x jfk


I checked the current flight schedule. They have 16 daily BOS-NYC (and vice-versa) on peak days: 6x to LGA and 5X to each of JFK & EWR. That goes up to 17 in the summer (EWR gets one more).

tphuang wrote:
those JFK slots are really valuable and short haul E90 operations are not a good way to use them. Maybe you will see more A320s out of JFK.


The JFK slots aren't as valuable as you seem to think they are. If they were, they wouldn't be wasting slots to ORH or RNO or ABQ.

tphuang wrote:
If they really want to go all in with BOS. They should drop either PBI or MCO and go to 9 or 10 daily on BOS-LGA. That ensures they will be competitive in that market. This spread the wealth approach is just marketing. Right now, BOS-LGA is a major money looser.


I think a key problem for B6 is that they just don't have enough LGA slot coverage to be competitive, especially if they're trying to cater to BOS-originating passengers. They have some serious gaps (i.e. no arrival slots between 1029 and 1230 and no departure slots between 1059 and 1300) and I have to imagine that they're walking away from some pretty decent money to be made on LGA-Florida for loss leader service to BOS.
 
seat1a
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:54 pm

Would BG benefit from a shuttle service like LGA-BOS/DCA/FLL only? Thinking minimum 7-8 flights on each route?
 
airbazar
Posts: 9499
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:15 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
It will Be interesting to hear what changes they have planned for LGB and SJU.
This additional flying out east has to come from somewhere else in the system since JetBlue not getting that many aircraft this year.

They are adding 13 A321neo's this year.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 19-454738/
"JetBlue will take delivery of its first A321neo this year. It will add 13 of the type - the only variant it is taking - in 2019, according to its fleet plan. In 2020, it will add another 15 A321neos as well as its first five Airbus A220s."
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1657
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:17 pm

airbazar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
It will Be interesting to hear what changes they have planned for LGB and SJU.
This additional flying out east has to come from somewhere else in the system since JetBlue not getting that many aircraft this year.

They are adding 13 A321neo's this year.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 19-454738/
"JetBlue will take delivery of its first A321neo this year. It will add 13 of the type - the only variant it is taking - in 2019, according to its fleet plan. In 2020, it will add another 15 A321neos as well as its first five Airbus A220s."

Thanks for the update and information.
Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2296
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:35 pm

jumbojet wrote:
DL has as much of a presence as B6 does in BOS.


Fact Check: B6 has 230% more presence than DLin BOS.

BOS passengers for 12 months ending Nov 2018:
1. JetBlue 10,377,000
2. American 6,486,000
3. Delta 4,563,000

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_I ... al_Airport
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:41 pm

airbazar wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
It will Be interesting to hear what changes they have planned for LGB and SJU.
This additional flying out east has to come from somewhere else in the system since JetBlue not getting that many aircraft this year.

They are adding 13 A321neo's this year.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 19-454738/
"JetBlue will take delivery of its first A321neo this year. It will add 13 of the type - the only variant it is taking - in 2019, according to its fleet plan. In 2020, it will add another 15 A321neos as well as its first five Airbus A220s."


This is no longer accurate. The delivery schedule was modified to accept at least six. The rest are expected to be lat due to production issues with airbus.

http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... ndex=10000

It’s on page 27.
 
ScrantonUSC
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:49 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:48 pm

Does anyone know how many dailies does B6, DL, and AA fly BOS-RDU right now?
 
airportlover
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:52 pm

blockski wrote:
Just something to note from MWAA's CAFR document regarding DCA's markets - BOS is the single largest O&D market from DCA:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=181

They also have a 10 year history, showing how the biggest O&D markets at DCA have changed:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=183

Note that in 2008, LGA was both much higher on the rank list and a much larger O&D market (760k/yr) than it is today (418k/yr). I wish they had data going back a bit further, but I think a lot of this is the continued Acela effect for DC-NYC travel.


Those are interesting numbers. The Acela is definitely a big part of this and will continue to become more popular. The good thing is it will hopefully free up some slots and airspace to be filled with new flights and destinations.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1251
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:55 pm

airportlover wrote:
blockski wrote:
Just something to note from MWAA's CAFR document regarding DCA's markets - BOS is the single largest O&D market from DCA:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=181

They also have a 10 year history, showing how the biggest O&D markets at DCA have changed:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=183

Note that in 2008, LGA was both much higher on the rank list and a much larger O&D market (760k/yr) than it is today (418k/yr). I wish they had data going back a bit further, but I think a lot of this is the continued Acela effect for DC-NYC travel.


Those are interesting numbers. The Acela is definitely a big part of this and will continue to become more popular. The good thing is it will hopefully free up some slots and airspace to be filled with new flights and destinations.


Just wait for it: The TSA implementing screening portals, "groping stations" and bag check systems at Acela stations. Then we'll see which mode of transportation will be the most popular.
 
evank516
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:07 pm

sargester wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Sounds like B6 is continuing to wind down their operations, first with the discontinuation of DAB-JFK and now BDL-DCA. Merger announcement must be imminent. It was a good ride but all things must end I guess.


Man the pessimism in this statement.... They just beefed up their ops in one city and cut two routes that didn't make any money, I can tell you from taking the JFK-DAB run many times, JetBlue wasn't breaking even on that route and possibly a few others in their system


I took the JFK-DAB run many times as well. Again, loads were not the issue with DAB (the flight was typically full when I flew it). It was their inability to garner premium pricing.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:11 pm

IPFreely wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
DL has as much of a presence as B6 does in BOS.


Fact Check: B6 has 230% more presence than DLin BOS.

BOS passengers for 12 months ending Nov 2018:
1. JetBlue 10,377,000
2. American 6,486,000
3. Delta 4,563,000

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_I ... al_Airport

Those are domestic numbers only and do not include international flights.
 
tphuang
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:42 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
not 16, 18

7x ewr, 6x lga and 5x jfk


I checked the current flight schedule. They have 16 daily BOS-NYC (and vice-versa) on peak days: 6x to LGA and 5X to each of JFK & EWR. That goes up to 17 in the summer (EWR gets one more).

EWR is going up to 7 a day according to an article I read. It had already been running 6 a day for most of 2018. The schedule has not been fully loaded yet.

tphuang wrote:
those JFK slots are really valuable and short haul E90 operations are not a good way to use them. Maybe you will see more A320s out of JFK.


The JFK slots aren't as valuable as you seem to think they are. If they were, they wouldn't be wasting slots to ORH or RNO or ABQ.

They are exactly as valuable as I think they are, at least until the slots go away. ORH is a sacrifice to curry favor with Massport. RNO/ABQ will be gone soon enough and so will BTV. Very few routes out of JFK doesn't at least break even. JFK is now easily their most profitable station.

tphuang wrote:
If they really want to go all in with BOS. They should drop either PBI or MCO and go to 9 or 10 daily on BOS-LGA. That ensures they will be competitive in that market. This spread the wealth approach is just marketing. Right now, BOS-LGA is a major money looser.


I think a key problem for B6 is that they just don't have enough LGA slot coverage to be competitive, especially if they're trying to cater to BOS-originating passengers. They have some serious gaps (i.e. no arrival slots between 1029 and 1230 and no departure slots between 1059 and 1300) and I have to imagine that they're walking away from some pretty decent money to be made on LGA-Florida for loss leader service to BOS.

interesting, I have not looked into the time slots they do have.

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
...its worst performing stations, which will be BOS/RDU/SEA. It's amazing with all the adds DL put into these markets, they have not gained any additional point of sale. Quite amazing.


What's the basis for this claim? Hard to believe DL would continue adding to these markets if they're not seeing positive benefits for their network and/or corporate traffic... Less hard to believe at BOS since they're still right in the middle of their expansion and there are quite a few important markets they don't serve yet, but at RDU or SEA I'd be very surprised if DL hasn't seen marked improvement over a few years ago.


for both RDU/SEA, it's based on routes I looked at. For example, I look at BOS-RDU, B6 has more capacity, much better margin and higher yield than DL main line on the route. On SEA-RDU, AS has better yield. FLL-RDU, B6 also has more capacity and only slightly worse yield than DL regional. And then there are routes like RDU-BWI, where WN just kills them. If DL actually had major point of sale at RDU, I would've imagined it would have higher yield than major competitors on routes like JFK/LAX/BOS/SEA/FLL-RDU since it also has a large presence on the other end. For SEA, I looked at a series of major routes out of SEA like LAX, SAN, SFO and such. Doesn't seem like DL has made any gains.

CaptCoolHand wrote:
This is no longer accurate. The delivery schedule was modified to accept at least six. The rest are expected to be lat due to production issues with airbus.

http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... ndex=10000

It’s on page 27.

It's most likely going to be a lot more than 6. You are just going to get them all at end of the year since airbus normally makes so much of its deliveries in Q4. Not great for fleet planning, but that's what they have to deal with.

ScrantonUSC wrote:
Does anyone know how many dailies does B6, DL, and AA fly BOS-RDU right now?

7x for B6, 6x for DL and none for AA

airportlover wrote:
blockski wrote:
Just something to note from MWAA's CAFR document regarding DCA's markets - BOS is the single largest O&D market from DCA:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=181

They also have a 10 year history, showing how the biggest O&D markets at DCA have changed:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=183

Note that in 2008, LGA was both much higher on the rank list and a much larger O&D market (760k/yr) than it is today (418k/yr). I wish they had data going back a bit further, but I think a lot of this is the continued Acela effect for DC-NYC travel.

Yes, quite interesting. It really makes sense for them now to give up on JFK-IAD, which was essentially their worst performing route out of JFK. I wonder if that will also change BOS-NYC market in the coming years.

airliner371 wrote:
Those are domestic numbers only and do not include international flights.

still the numbers won't change very much. B6 significant island operation out of BOS. The reality is B6 will have 50% more gates than DL at BOS and it flies all mainline vs DL regionals.
 
sargester
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:42 am

evank516 wrote:
sargester wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Sounds like B6 is continuing to wind down their operations, first with the discontinuation of DAB-JFK and now BDL-DCA. Merger announcement must be imminent. It was a good ride but all things must end I guess.


Man the pessimism in this statement.... They just beefed up their ops in one city and cut two routes that didn't make any money, I can tell you from taking the JFK-DAB run many times, JetBlue wasn't breaking even on that route and possibly a few others in their system


I took the JFK-DAB run many times as well. Again, loads were not the issue with DAB (the flight was typically full when I flew it). It was their inability to garner premium pricing.


516... fellow Nassau County resident i suppose... a friend of mine at JetBlue said that the load factor was the biggest problem, it averaged out to be around the high 70s to low 80s and wasn't sustainable and the DAB airport authority was not the brightest group of schmucks that wrote up the contract, they wanted it to be splashy with a daily 320 and it should have been less than daily E190 service, I'm glad AA is starting service other than just being my airline of choice, the frequency makes sense rather than just slap a mainline jet on it and hope for the best, granted net-net B6 was covered on a day to day basis with their contract... a lot to be said about such a meaningless route... and MCO ain't all that far away... i still love driving across Lake Jessup on 417
 
evank516
Posts: 1934
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:39 pm

sargester wrote:
evank516 wrote:
sargester wrote:

Man the pessimism in this statement.... They just beefed up their ops in one city and cut two routes that didn't make any money, I can tell you from taking the JFK-DAB run many times, JetBlue wasn't breaking even on that route and possibly a few others in their system


I took the JFK-DAB run many times as well. Again, loads were not the issue with DAB (the flight was typically full when I flew it). It was their inability to garner premium pricing.


516... fellow Nassau County resident i suppose... a friend of mine at JetBlue said that the load factor was the biggest problem, it averaged out to be around the high 70s to low 80s and wasn't sustainable and the DAB airport authority was not the brightest group of schmucks that wrote up the contract, they wanted it to be splashy with a daily 320 and it should have been less than daily E190 service, I'm glad AA is starting service other than just being my airline of choice, the frequency makes sense rather than just slap a mainline jet on it and hope for the best, granted net-net B6 was covered on a day to day basis with their contract... a lot to be said about such a meaningless route... and MCO ain't all that far away... i still love driving across Lake Jessup on 417


Indeed a Nassau County resident, born and raised and have been traveling between here and DAB since age 3 months. However, the only reason it didn't go to the E190 is because it would have been more costly to operate. They would have filled a daily E190. If they operated a 150 seat A320 and the average loads were in the low 80s (which is what I've heard), then do the math: 150*.8=120. Let's say it was even 78%: 150*.78=117. That's more than an E190 can fill. The problem is they didn't have an aircraft that went in the middle (cough cough) Delta. Those numbers could fill a 717, A319, or nowadays an A220. They can justify daily service, and I actually think AA will probably make their flight daily. I'd like to know who your source at jetBlue is, and how close to route planning and revenue management he/she is.
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1450
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:20 am

sargester wrote:
evank516 wrote:
sargester wrote:

Man the pessimism in this statement.... They just beefed up their ops in one city and cut two routes that didn't make any money, I can tell you from taking the JFK-DAB run many times, JetBlue wasn't breaking even on that route and possibly a few others in their system


I took the JFK-DAB run many times as well. Again, loads were not the issue with DAB (the flight was typically full when I flew it). It was their inability to garner premium pricing.


516... fellow Nassau County resident i suppose... a friend of mine at JetBlue said that the load factor was the biggest problem, it averaged out to be around the high 70s to low 80s and wasn't sustainable and the DAB airport authority was not the brightest group of schmucks that wrote up the contract, they wanted it to be splashy with a daily 320 and it should have been less than daily E190 service, I'm glad AA is starting service other than just being my airline of choice, the frequency makes sense rather than just slap a mainline jet on it and hope for the best, granted net-net B6 was covered on a day to day basis with their contract... a lot to be said about such a meaningless route... and MCO ain't all that far away... i still love driving across Lake Jessup on 417


Delta is king at DAB, with AA holding their own. It's sad that B6 couldn't even make a nonstop to JFK work while Delta/AA managed to still fill their ATL/CLT bound aircraft with NY passengers. Coming from someone who knows personally many who work with the DAB airport authority I'd say this was more on B6 being a failure over DAB.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25654
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:41 am

blockski wrote:
Just something to note from MWAA's CAFR document regarding DCA's markets - BOS is the single largest O&D market from DCA:
https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... f#page=181


BOS is the single largest O&D airport from DCA. Chicago (ORD+MDW) and South Florida (MIA+FLL+PBI) are both larger O&D markets from DCA.
a.
 
303dk
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:10 am

Can the A220 do STT-BOS without the frequent fuel stop?
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1404
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:35 am

303dk wrote:
Can the A220 do STT-BOS without the frequent fuel stop?


Yes of course. BOS-STT is just a touch shorter than BOS-DFW and that’s a route they most likely will be on.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3032
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:27 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
303dk wrote:
Can the A220 do STT-BOS without the frequent fuel stop?


Yes of course. BOS-STT is just a touch shorter than BOS-DFW and that’s a route they most likely will be on.


Its not a distance issue it's the runway and geography in STT that requires the stop.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 519
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Re: B6 Announces Major BOS Expansion

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:51 pm

Interesting....

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