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Veigar
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B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:26 am

I have read time and time again that B6 is struggling and they will merge soon and whatnot. I have also heard people try to argue against it saying that B6 is completely fine. I want to know what's is actually going on. I do know they are not in an amazing spot, but aside from this, it gets shady for me. People say really bad things and really good thing about them, nothing is really consistent. Checked their stock price and it doesn't look very good but I don't really know how to judge from just this alone. Even IF they did merge with someone, who would be the most likely airline? Spirit? DL?



P.S. Would love a thread link that specifically talks about this recently; (as in B6 in 2019) if one has already been made. Apologize in advance. It's just I see a lot of overlapping discussion about this when the topic isn't exactly B6's health but rather something they are doing or not doing. Thanks.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:34 am

Read the financial statements - not the press releases, the SEC filings. Look at the DOT operational data. Judge for yourself.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:08 am

I can’t see any of the Big 3 legacies acquiring B6; they’re all large in the NY area in different ways, meaning the DOJ would want so much divested that the deal wouldn’t be worth it.

Should B6 end up with anyone, your logical suitors are AS, F9, or NK, although SY would be an interesting possibility. You can all but rule out both HA and WN, though.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Veigar
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:14 am

EA CO AS wrote:
I can’t see any of the Big 3 legacies acquiring B6; they’re all large in the NY area in different ways, meaning the DOJ would want so much divested that the deal wouldn’t be worth it.

Should B6 end up with anyone, your logical suitors are AS, F9, or NK, although SY would be an interesting possibility. You can all but rule out both HA and WN, though.



Definitely not SY either. Those guys can barely handle themselves. You're right in that AS (although even this is a stretch considering they just merged with VA)-- but NK and F9 are big ones to me. Out of the US3, I think United is the least likely to acquire them. WN and HA are no brainers, yes.
 
santi319
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:25 am

None of the mayors will gain anything from buying B6. Literally, they are better off waiting for them to just shrink or reestructure. Only thing that can save them is, yes you guess right, becomming a ULCC-hybrid like Norwegian, but their management and their employees are in denial. They spent decades bashing LCC etc, and now look at their situation. They need a business model change ASAP. And no BOS and NYC business contracts are just not enough at this point to change anything...
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:01 am

santi319 wrote:
None of the mayors will gain anything from buying B6. Literally, they are better off waiting for them to just shrink or reestructure. Only thing that can save them is, yes you guess right, becomming a ULCC-hybrid like Norwegian, but their management and their employees are in denial. They spent decades bashing LCC etc, and now look at their situation. They need a business model change ASAP. And no BOS and NYC business contracts are just not enough at this point to change anything...


I apologize because I don't always follow B6 closely. They need to change to an ULCC or die because...?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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FA9295
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:16 am

Veigar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
I can’t see any of the Big 3 legacies acquiring B6; they’re all large in the NY area in different ways, meaning the DOJ would want so much divested that the deal wouldn’t be worth it.

Should B6 end up with anyone, your logical suitors are AS, F9, or NK, although SY would be an interesting possibility. You can all but rule out both HA and WN, though.



Definitely not SY either. Those guys can barely handle themselves. You're right in that AS (although even this is a stretch considering they just merged with VA)-- but NK and F9 are big ones to me. Out of the US3, I think United is the least likely to acquire them. WN and HA are no brainers, yes.

NK and F9 have significantly different business models from B6. While they do technically call themselves "a low-cost airline", B6 appeals to some business travelers as well (such as those who regularly travel on MINT routes). NK and F9 (and also SY to a much lesser extent) appeal to those who are just trying to find the cheapest fare with bare-bones service. The two vastly different business models would not mesh very well, even if B6 is technically "a low-cost airline".

I don't really like speculating on possible B6 mergers because they go nowhere productive; but in my opinion, if they were to merge at all, it would be with AS (even with the somewhat recent VX merger). I think AS and B6 have similar business models and attract similar target markets (albeit being on the opposite end of the country from each another). There's no way that the DOJ would let any of the big 3 (AA, DL, UA) merge again, at least not in the immediate future. One interesting thing to watch would be fleet commonality, since AS may end up getting rid of their Airbuses in the long-term future. Also, would the HQ be headquartered in NYC or Seattle? But most importantly, would the airline brand name be called "Alaska" or "jetBlue"? Maybe "Blue Alaska" or "jetAlaska" perhaps... ;)

Perhaps the most important question of all, though... Would they end up keeping the Eskimo logo...? :D
 
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stl07
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:18 am

FA9295 wrote:
Veigar wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
I can’t see any of the Big 3 legacies acquiring B6; they’re all large in the NY area in different ways, meaning the DOJ would want so much divested that the deal wouldn’t be worth it.

Should B6 end up with anyone, your logical suitors are AS, F9, or NK, although SY would be an interesting possibility. You can all but rule out both HA and WN, though.



Definitely not SY either. Those guys can barely handle themselves. You're right in that AS (although even this is a stretch considering they just merged with VA)-- but NK and F9 are big ones to me. Out of the US3, I think United is the least likely to acquire them. WN and HA are no brainers, yes.

NK and F9 have significantly different business models from B6. While they do technically call themselves "a low-cost airline", B6 appeals to some business travelers as well (such as those who regularly travel on MINT routes). NK and F9 (and also SY to a much lesser extent) appeal to those who are just trying to find the cheapest fare with bare-bones service. The two vastly different business models would not mesh very well, even if B6 is technically "a low-cost airline".

I don't really like speculating on possible B6 mergers because they go nowhere productive; but in my opinion, if they were to merge at all, it would be with AS (even with the somewhat recent VX merger). I think AS and B6 have similar business models and attract similar target markets (albeit being on the opposite end of the country from each another). There's no way that the DOJ would let any of the big 3 (AA, DL, UA) merge again, at least not in the immediate future. One interesting thing to watch would be fleet commonality, since AS may end up getting rid of their Airbuses in the long-term future. Also, would the HQ be headquartered in NYC or Seattle? But most importantly, would the airline brand name be called "Alaska" or "jetBlue"? Maybe "Blue Alaska" or "jetAlaska" perhaps... ;)

Perhaps the most important question of all, though... Would they end up keeping the Eskimo logo...? :D

Alaska Azul
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
santi319
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:27 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
santi319 wrote:
None of the mayors will gain anything from buying B6. Literally, they are better off waiting for them to just shrink or reestructure. Only thing that can save them is, yes you guess right, becomming a ULCC-hybrid like Norwegian, but their management and their employees are in denial. They spent decades bashing LCC etc, and now look at their situation. They need a business model change ASAP. And no BOS and NYC business contracts are just not enough at this point to change anything...


I apologize because I don't always follow B6 closely. They need to change to an ULCC or die because...?


Take a look at the world my friend, ULCC are the future of aviation, unless you are a flag carrier, and not even then....

The new generations are more environentally friendly and more into getting from point A to point B cheap, easy and safe. The richer are richer and can afford private jets, the poorer are poorer but still rather travel than spending money in housing or cars.. watch this space.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:33 am

AS is the best fit. B6 and AS both use a hybrid business model. Premium front cabin. LCC rear cabin. Their networks are complementary, primarily coastal (but opposite coasts) and some transcon (but different city pairs).
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:53 am

santi319 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
santi319 wrote:
None of the mayors will gain anything from buying B6. Literally, they are better off waiting for them to just shrink or reestructure. Only thing that can save them is, yes you guess right, becomming a ULCC-hybrid like Norwegian, but their management and their employees are in denial. They spent decades bashing LCC etc, and now look at their situation. They need a business model change ASAP. And no BOS and NYC business contracts are just not enough at this point to change anything...


I apologize because I don't always follow B6 closely. They need to change to an ULCC or die because...?


Take a look at the world my friend, ULCC are the future of aviation, unless you are a flag carrier, and not even then....

The new generations are more environentally friendly and more into getting from point A to point B cheap, easy and safe. The richer are richer and can afford private jets, the poorer are poorer but still rather travel than spending money in housing or cars.. watch this space.


But what is "their situation"? You are just projecting your future vision of the airline industry on B6 and calling their death based on their vision not [currently] matching with yours.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:15 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
santi319 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I apologize because I don't always follow B6 closely. They need to change to an ULCC or die because...?


Take a look at the world my friend, ULCC are the future of aviation, unless you are a flag carrier, and not even then....

The new generations are more environentally friendly and more into getting from point A to point B cheap, easy and safe. The richer are richer and can afford private jets, the poorer are poorer but still rather travel than spending money in housing or cars.. watch this space.


But what is "their situation"? You are just projecting your future vision of the airline industry on B6 and calling their death based on their vision not [currently] matching with yours.

santi works for NK who competes heavily with B6 at FLL, so he has a negative view of B6's finances.

This is a good graph to explain things.
https://3rxg9qea18zhtl6s2u8jammft-wpeng ... t-01-1.png
B6 is middle of the pack in margins as you can see here for Q4. Not as great as NK and WN, but not in the same ballpark as AA either.

B6 and AS are in the same boat. All they need to do is to wait out for the next recession and DL will start cutting back at SEA/BOS and all these years of build up to defend against DL will have just strengthened their position there and they will go back to having above average margins again.
 
Blerg
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:15 am

There are two things I will never understand on this forum:

1. This obsession Americans have with one airline buying another, it's as if you wish to have less competition which only brings about higher fares.

2. People referring to B6's financial reports. What's wrong with them? The last time I checked they were a profitable business, that's what matters. It's annoying that people expect them to report billions in profits even if they were set up two decades ago and even if they are still a, more or less, regional player.

People need to give jetBlue a break.
 
SoCalFlyer
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:20 am

Exactly what “situation” are you referring to lol? Jetblue is in no immediate trouble of shutting down or anything of the sort.
 
B6Aviator
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:38 am

People on this forum are legitimately hoping for the demise of JetBlue, it's a sad reality but the truth nonetheless. Go check any B6 related thread and you will see posts from the same cast of characters eagerly awaiting the JetBlue casket being lowered into the ground.

The airline just celebrated it's 19th anniversary and doesn't have six hundred airplanes in the fleet. Competing against the majors and ULCC's is tough but they've carved out a nice niche for themselves. I don't know what the future holds as far as M&A activity, but I fail to see what the big 3 gain other than paying billions/divesting slots just to eliminate a competitor.
 
questions
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:43 am

It’ll be a three way. B6-AS-HA.

The combined airline’s name will be jetHawaiian.

The marketing strategy will be to create a retro aviation hip vibe for the brand. A true premium experience will be offered to passengers flying in the F cabin including signature Lei Flat service replacing Mint. Simple, straight forward service with classy touches will be the hallmark in the main cabin.

All reference to Alaska Airlines will be dropped as the integration principle will be to adopt “the best of the three.” :tombstone:

The airlines headquarters will be moved to Los Angeles.

Strategic hubs will be located in BOS, JFK, FLL, SEA, LAX and HNL. Numerous focus cities will complement the network. jetHawaiian will fly across the US and to Europe and Asia Pacific.





You saw it here first. 28FEB19.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:10 am

questions wrote:
It’ll be a three way. B6-AS-HA.

The combined airline’s name will be jetHawaiian.

The marketing strategy will be to create a retro aviation hip vibe for the brand. A true premium experience will be offered to passengers flying in the F cabin including signature Lei Flat service replacing Mint. Simple, straight forward service with classy touches will be the hallmark in the main cabin.

All reference to Alaska Airlines will be dropped as the integration principle will be to adopt “the best of the three.” :tombstone:

The airlines headquarters will be moved to Los Angeles.

Strategic hubs will be located in BOS, JFK, FLL, SEA, LAX and HNL. Numerous focus cities will complement the network. jetHawaiian will fly across the US and to Europe and Asia Pacific.





You saw it here first. 28FEB19.


Sounds like you have a hard-on for Pualani. For all the crap Alaska gets for sounding "regional", I'm sure the first thing that comes to mind when booking BOS-DCA will be jetHawaiian. Might as well turn the lights out and hand the keys to DL, sport. Good job.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
eirflot
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:23 am

If its not big Americans are not thinking
Even if its not broken Americans have to fix it
Im thinking fake news or alternate facts on the B6 "situation"
 
questions
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:38 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Sounds like you have a hard-on for Pualani. For all the crap Alaska gets for sounding "regional", I'm sure the first thing that comes to mind when booking BOS-DCA will be jetHawaiian. Might as well turn the lights out and hand the keys to DL, sport. Good job.


Actually Pualani and I are after the same guy. And no, it’s not Chester.

When it’s 7 degrees in BOS, people will prefer to fly BOS-DCA on jetHawaiian over Delta. It’s called marketing, Sparky. A lot of people fly Alaska Airlines to... not Alaska. A lot of people fly Southwest Airlines to... not the Southwest. A lot of people fly QANTAS to... not Queensland and Northern Territories.
 
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Veigar
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:51 am

SoCalFlyer wrote:
Exactly what “situation” are you referring to lol? Jetblue is in no immediate trouble of shutting down or anything of the sort.


The "situation" that a huge chunk of people are talking about everywhere, not just Anet. I just made this thread to try and see what's actually going on but it seems like no one can come to a consensus.
 
raddek
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:45 am

NK has a lot of cash in the bank. The pros for an NK/B6 tie up would be:

#1 Super Carrier in FLL (WN would begin struggling)

#2 Gives NK access to massive HUBS in BOS/JFK

#3 Would become one of the world's largest ULCC with the combined fleet.

#4 B6 Shareholders will reap the rewards of an ULCC Business model.

Something that is interesting is the fact that the former NK CEO Ben Baldanza is now on their board of directors. If there was to be a future NK/B6 tie-up, who better to make it all happen?

I am not hoping for B6 to go away because I believe too many airlines have merged and there are less options now for the consumer. These were just the positives on why an NK merger would make sense, IF it were to happen. There are cons too. But I'm keeping it positive this morning.
 
raddek
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:45 am

NK has a lot of cash in the bank. The pros for an NK/B6 tie up would be:

#1 Super Carrier in FLL (WN would begin struggling)

#2 Gives NK access to massive HUBS in BOS/JFK

#3 Would become one of the world's largest ULCC with the combined fleet.

#4 B6 Shareholders will reap the rewards of an ULCC Business model.

Something that is interesting is the fact that the former NK CEO Ben Baldanza is now on their board of directors. If there was to be a future NK/B6 tie-up, who better to make it all happen?

I am not hoping for B6 to go away because I believe too many airlines have merged and there are less options now for the consumer. These were just the positives on why an NK merger would make sense, IF it were to happen. There are cons too. But I'm keeping it positive this morning.
 
N757ST
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:08 am

2018 was a down year for jetblue for many reasons, all of which were one time occurrences. The initial impact of retiring the e90 and thus taking a write off in their projected value, a one time pilot contract bonus, and poor location of the Easter holiday. With a redeployment of the network, the e90 writeoff resolved, and favorable weather this season so far, look for 2019 to be a very good year for B6. People that call for their demise don’t read pesky things like financial reports or forward looking statements...

The facts are jetblue is projecting to be EXTREMELY profitable in 2019, upwards of 1 billion dollars with margins in the teens.

They still have very little debt and an extemely good balance sheet.

They have 150+ aircraft to be delivered in the next 5 years, 60 for replacement and 90 for growth.

New deliveries are being paid for in cash, further improving the balance sheet.

Costs are due to decrease with the cabin mods and deployment of the a220 in 2020-2021.

So again, no they are not at risk for collapse. If the economy went until recession today jetblue is in a very good position to ride it out for a very long time. As for merger, the simple reason it could happen is that jetblue has undeniably good resources and enviable real estate.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:12 am

raddek wrote:
NK has a lot of cash in the bank. The pros for an NK/B6 tie up would be:

#1 Super Carrier in FLL (WN would begin struggling)

#2 Gives NK access to massive HUBS in BOS/JFK

#3 Would become one of the world's largest ULCC with the combined fleet.

#4 B6 Shareholders will reap the rewards of an ULCC Business model.

Something that is interesting is the fact that the former NK CEO Ben Baldanza is now on their board of directors. If there was to be a future NK/B6 tie-up, who better to make it all happen?

I am not hoping for B6 to go away because I believe too many airlines have merged and there are less options now for the consumer. These were just the positives on why an NK merger would make sense, IF it were to happen. There are cons too. But I'm keeping it positive this morning.


You do realize B6 has one of the best balance books in the industry, right? They actually own most of their fleet and have very little debt. And they have higher revenue, profit and market cap. I'm not sure what B6 has to gain by merging with NK.

As for your points.
1) WN is already starting to give up on FLL. B6 has been gaining strength in FLL, not loosing. The problem with merging with NK is that they are just going to be the ULCC of south florida. Standing alone, they have a shot of gaining serious corporate and high yielding ff from AA. And they have already been doing so. There is a reason AA's MIA operation is below average in margins hub. Why would they give up on these high yielding ff?

2) B6 has massive hubs at JFK and BOS, why would they give that up to ULCC. The major reason they have been able to get revenue premium on routes against legacy carriers is due to their product. People pay more to fly JetBlue. Do you understand how many people pay more to fly JetBlue vs legacy carriers in NYC?

3)/4) A lot of what B6 has right now doesn't make sense for ULCC operation. They have a hugely popular NYC to Carribbean operation where they completely control pricing. They have a hugely popular premium transcon network that prints money. Going ULCC mode would throw all of that away.

Remember, B6 sits on really valuable properties that are worth a lot of money. It has 2nd largest slot portfolio in JFK, 18 slots at LGA and 30 slots at DCA. And it will manage an entire North terminal in the new unified JFK and the most number of gates at BOS. That JFK north terminal ownership is going to be one of the most cherished airport properties in America. If B6 is up for sale, there will be no shortage of interested buyers. There is a lot tangible assets in there which will value them much higher than what their current market cap shows. NK simply doesn't have what it takes to make a bid for B6. None of the ULCCs do. Only the big 4 will have the money to buy B6 if it became available.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:53 pm

Just look at their recent route adds, they've ran out of ideas so they're doing what they do best - flying 30 time a day from Boston to Washington while ignoring half of the country and crying why they are a mess. B6 was fantastic under Neeleman, remained fine but started faltering a bit after Barger tookover, and is now in a in a deep downward spiral now that the British guy is in charge. They need change and they need change fast, whether it's a buyout, merger, or becoming an ULCC.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
Blueballs
Posts: 53
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:08 pm

Here’s the reality from a seasoned jetblue captain:
The company is strong financially, in spite of a leadership team that believes “culture starts at the bottom”

Leadership doesn’t believe the employees are an asset but a liability

We have a chief operations officer with no operational experience, and instead of focusing on low morale and embarrassing on time percentages she chooses to focus on cleaning the airplanes and a culture that no longer exists.

All work groups are burnt out from being understaffed and overworked

Let’s not get started on the profit sharing

Morale is low in all groups I come across, gate agents don’t care anymore as they have to deal with the angry passengers during our routine delays with .2% profit sharing and threats of termination. Flight attendants are treated like toddlers and are taught how evil pilots and unions are instead of focusing on the truly important parts of their jobs. Mechanics are being overworked and told the pilots are writing up stuff as a job action. When in reality the aren’t being supported and are encouraged to sweep the deficiencies under the rug. The pilots are told they don’t matter aren’t respected for the important role they play and constantly are questioned or intimidated by the chief pilots office for things like being sick or writing up maintainance issues.

The only happy people are those that work in LSC (headquarters) and are truly brainwashed.

A successful company with all the frontline employees praying for a merger just to hav a change of management.
 
KICT
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:21 pm

They will be "merged" with United like how AirTran was "merged" with Southwest.
Bet on it.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9238
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:22 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Just look at their recent route adds, they've ran out of ideas so they're doing what they do best - flying 30 time a day from Boston to Washington while ignoring half of the country and crying why they are a mess. B6 was fantastic under Neeleman, remained fine but started faltering a bit after Barger tookover, and is now in a in a deep downward spiral now that the British guy is in charge. They need change and they need change fast, whether it's a buyout, merger, or becoming an ULCC.


Jetblue is doing what they need to do to begin their next leg of operations. They need to cater to the business class that wants multiple flights a day between high traffic centers. Then they need to get ETOPS, and then they need to start flying to Europe and Hawaii with the A32Xneo and XL. Another 20 years, and they may be flying widebodies.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:29 pm

Blerg wrote:
There are two things I will never understand on this forum:

1. This obsession Americans have with one airline buying another, it's as if you wish to have less competition which only brings about higher fares.


Its better too have a few strong airlines than the hundreds in the EU that are failing on a rate of one per quarter. Was it last week another one failed and stranded passengers all over the place?
 
xdlx
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:34 pm

It certainly would love MOXY.... to acquire it!
 
CobaltScar
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:44 pm

I think a lot of it is the frontline employees most all WANT to merge with the big 4 or Alaska. Who wants to do the same job for less pay and worse work rules. Oh and a tiny fraction of the profit sharing as the others while being told out of the other side of management's mouth that they must continue to clean the aircraft like janitors to help profit sharing.

United, WN, Alaska all are viable merger partners and those three would be allowed to acquire B6. United maybe iffy if the government thinks EWR and JFK are same market. If separate markets then United will stop at nothing to acquire B6. WN close second. Alaska happens if stuff hits the fan and with everyone floundering there is a equitable merge between two drowning coastal carriers.

There is one dark horse that I think people need to keep their eye on. David Neeleman himself. I listened to a recent interview with him and he still holds grudges and resentments on how he was treated in 2007. As he now is getting older and getting ready to lunch maybe his last airline, Moxy, something tells me he will use a successful Moxy to push him and his investor backers over the edge and do a hostile takeover of B6, and thus take back control of jetBlue that he still have a very emotional attachment to. Watch this one and mark my words.
 
N766UA
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:46 pm

Hey guys I heard NWA might retire their DC-9’s?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1675
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Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:01 pm

If and that's a big IF JetBlue ever put itself up for sale. Like AS outbidding to win VX.
Southwest will open it's war chest and buy JetBlue. Only because in the new aviation environment it can't allow a ULCC or even AlaskaAir to get that much bigger.
JetBlues Eastern,FL and Caribbean market cap is 3 times of what AirTran was so WN can't afford not to play the merger game.
Different aircraft types not a huge problem.
WN would park the E190's and cancel the A220.
Mint would be re-evaluated most likely kept with All the A321 being mint aircraft sent on long haul missions connecting WN bigger network to grab the business paxs.
Over time WN would replace the A320s with a huge MAX7 order from Boeing.
A321 would be replaced with the 797.
Like Muse Air,TranStar,Morris Air,AirTran JetBlue name world fade away into the history books.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3221
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:11 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Blerg wrote:
There are two things I will never understand on this forum:

1. This obsession Americans have with one airline buying another, it's as if you wish to have less competition which only brings about higher fares.


Its better too have a few strong airlines than the hundreds in the EU that are failing on a rate of one per quarter. Was it last week another one failed and stranded passengers all over the place?


That maybe good for shareholders and some airline execs, but terrible for consumers. Since most of us on this forum don't work for airlines. We want more choices, better choices and better values.

US airline industry does not have enough competition right now.

The idea that somehow eliminating more airline is good for anyone in public is ludicrous. Some JetBlue employees may want a merger with a bigger airline, but that's really not the topic at hand. We have had numerous such threads about how JetBlue needs to be saved from its management team on this forum. Why can't people just continue to complain there?

Let's look at the facts:
B6 is middle of the pack in margins.
They have great balance sheet and own most of the aircraft.
very little debt and bought back many of the floating shares, which makes them less vulnerable to takeover attempts
Sitting on very valuable properties, which means any offer would have to be significantly over current market cap to be successful.
Just became the operator for the future JFK north terminal which is going to give them a lot of additional value.

How is it a good thing for the public for an airline to be removed from equation?
Last edited by tphuang on Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10976
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:12 pm

and here we are. the same ole stuff. again.

just curious - how many of you went into other threads and just simply copied and pasted your responses from before?

i mean - for the love of god - people are suggesting JetBlue merge with an airline that doesn't even exist yet.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:23 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
I think a lot of it is the frontline employees most all WANT to merge with the big 4 or Alaska. Who wants to do the same job for less pay and worse work rules. Oh and a tiny fraction of the profit sharing as the others while being told out of the other side of management's mouth that they must continue to clean the aircraft like janitors to help profit sharing.

United, WN, Alaska’s ka all are viable merger partners and those three would be allowed to acquire B6. United maybe iffy if the government thinks EWR and JFK are same market. If separate markets then United will stop at nothing to acquire B6. WN close second. Alaska happens if stuff hits the fan and with everyone floundering there is a equitable merge between two drowning coastal carriers.

There is one dark horse that I think people need to keep their eye on. David Neeleman himself. I listened to a recent interview with him and he still holds grudges and resentments on how he was treated in 2007. As he now is getting older and getting ready to lunch maybe his last airline, Moxy, something tells me he will use a successful Moxy to push him and his investor backers over the edge and do a hostile takeover of B6, and thus take back control of jetBlue that he still have a very emotional attachment to. Watch this one and mark my words.


I agree with AS/UA/WN as the likely options. I just don’t see it happening anytime soon, if ever.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1513
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:29 pm

I wish JetBlue would sign more codeshare deals with airliners in Europe and Central America (including Mexico).
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2881
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
[

B6 and AS are in the same boat. All they need to do is to wait out for the next recession and DL will start cutting back at SEA/BOS and all these years of build up to defend against DL will have just strengthened their position there and they will go back to having above average margins again.


Your sadly mistaken. what makes you so certain DL will pull out of SEA and BOS come the next recession? Hate to tell you but they aren't going anywhere. If anyone needs to be quaking in their boots its JetBlue. The next recession will see MINT planes turn back to all economy. JetBlue will undoubtedly suffer the most.

On top of all of that, B6 is THE worst American airline when it comes their daily operations and on-time, or lack thereof, performance. Take today for example, more than 33% of JetBlues entire schedule is delayed! And its not even noon time yet..
 
nine4nine
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:08 pm

B6 isn’t going anywhere for quite awhile and deff not to UA or HA, AS or WN. Just stop with this nonsense.

UA-already has dominance of EWR. JFK added would bring in a monopoly to the NYC area and violate anti-trust laws.

HA- ummmm I do t think this even merits and explanation.

WN- has very little following in the northeast. BOS and PHL buildups have been dismal failures. Even ATL is a shadow of what it started out with after the first official day of ops after AirTran. Fact is WN is strong in the mid west and west coast and that’s about it.

AS- Can’t cut it out east. Cutting previous VX transcon frequencies left and right and cutting intra-coast flying out east. With a name like Alaska, the general public doesn’t think of LA,San Fran, San Diego etc....they think of icy Alaska and the cold gray northwest. They would not last out east especially hanging onto the AS name like they’d be stubborn to do. It’s dumb.

Lastly the Moxy scenario. If anyone has ever looked up the deffinition it’s may be a telling sign of what this is about. I believe that Project Moxy is a Trojan horse that will allow Neeleman and his investors to takeover B6. A year and a half out from start and there’s not much to know since this was announced other than 2 stark similarities.

Both ”Moxy” and B6 order 60 frames each of A220 within 2 days of each other.

Neeleman says B6 and ”Moxy” will not have one competing route. Well it’s hard to compete aginast yourself. I think if you read some of the press releases there are subliminal messages that David is throwing out there. Perhaps “Project Moxy” is not only a buyback and reinvestment into B6 but a reinvention and rebirth of B6.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
User avatar
pitbosflyer
Posts: 350
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:09 pm

nine4nine wrote:
I believe that Project Moxy is a Trojan horse that will allow Neeleman and his investors to takeover B6. A year and a half out from start and there’s not much to know since this was announced other than 2 stark similarities.

Both ”Moxy” and B6 order 60 frames each of A220 within 2 days of each other.

Neeleman says B6 and ”Moxy” will not have one competing route. Well it’s hard to compete aginast yourself. I think if you read some of the press releases there are subliminal messages that David is throwing out there. Perhaps “Project Moxy” is not only a buyback and reinvestment into B6 but a reinvention and rebirth of B6.


Now there is an interesting conspiracy theory that I hadn't even considered. Honestly that doesn't sound that crazy. I totally think there are lots of people at B6 that would champion a return of the founder.

I listened to an NPR interview with Neeleman recently and he said a few interesting things about Moxy. One was to this day his loss of control over B6 still hurts him. Second was that he is structuring Moxy in a way that never again can a board of directors remove him from the helm. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1828
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:09 pm

jumbojet wrote:
tphuang wrote:
[

B6 and AS are in the same boat. All they need to do is to wait out for the next recession and DL will start cutting back at SEA/BOS and all these years of build up to defend against DL will have just strengthened their position there and they will go back to having above average margins again.


Your sadly mistaken. what makes you so certain DL will pull out of SEA and BOS come the next recession? Hate to tell you but they aren't going anywhere. If anyone needs to be quaking in their boots its JetBlue. The next recession will see MINT planes turn back to all economy. JetBlue will undoubtedly suffer the most.

Lol.

Clearly you’ve never read any post on here indicating how financially successful Mint has been out of BOS, JFK, and FLL from data tphuang has kindly provided countless times.

These narratives about B6 have become out of control. It’s frustrating to see.
B6Aviator wrote:
People on this forum are legitimately hoping for the demise of JetBlue, it's a sad reality but the truth nonetheless. Go check any B6 related thread and you will see posts from the same cast of characters eagerly awaiting the JetBlue casket being lowered into the ground.

The airline just celebrated it's 19th anniversary and doesn't have six hundred airplanes in the fleet. Competing against the majors and ULCC's is tough but they've carved out a nice niche for themselves. I don't know what the future holds as far as M&A activity, but I fail to see what the big 3 gain other than paying billions/divesting slots just to eliminate a competitor.

The main perpetrators are A) Employees from other airlines. B) FFers of rival airlines. And C) Armchair CEOs who think they have enough credentials to run JetBlue.

I hate to say it, but it’s time to start cracking down on this nonsense.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:19 pm

Runway28L wrote:
The main perpetrators are A) Employees from other airlines.
I hate to say it, but it’s time to start cracking down on this nonsense.


You think its employees from OTHER airlines?
Last edited by CobaltScar on Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 1828
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:25 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
The main perpetrators are A) Employees from other airlines.
I hate to say it, but it’s time to start cracking down on this nonsense.


I think its employees from OTHER airlines?

:? My post says “other airlines”. Not sure what you’re getting at.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:31 pm

woops I said "I" instead of "you", corrected the post.

So.... YOU think one of the three main perpetrators are employees from OTHER airlines?

(implying I strongly disagree)
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3493
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:45 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
woops I said "I" instead of "you", corrected the post.

So.... YOU think one of the three main perpetrators are employees from OTHER airlines?

(implying I strongly disagree)


Of course it is. How is that even something you could disagree with??
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2418
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:02 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
woops I said "I" instead of "you", corrected the post.

So.... YOU think one of the three main perpetrators are employees from OTHER airlines?

(implying I strongly disagree)


Of course it is. How is that even something you could disagree with??


Some of these threads may be started by employees of other airlines, but not all of them. One of the recent JetBlue threads was started by, and kept alive by, a disgruntled employee. Hopefully he will soon be fired since he clearly lacks the pride or guts to quit.
 
winginit
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:18 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
santi319 wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I apologize because I don't always follow B6 closely. They need to change to an ULCC or die because...?


Take a look at the world my friend, ULCC are the future of aviation, unless you are a flag carrier, and not even then....

The new generations are more environentally friendly and more into getting from point A to point B cheap, easy and safe. The richer are richer and can afford private jets, the poorer are poorer but still rather travel than spending money in housing or cars.. watch this space.


But what is "their situation"? You are just projecting your future vision of the airline industry on B6 and calling their death based on their vision not [currently] matching with yours.


Bingo.

I'm just going to leave this here with regards to B6's "situation":

Image
Source

Goodness me how will they survive! :roll:
 
smartplane
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:26 pm

pitbosflyer wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
I believe that Project Moxy is a Trojan horse that will allow Neeleman and his investors to takeover B6. A year and a half out from start and there’s not much to know since this was announced other than 2 stark similarities.

Both ”Moxy” and B6 order 60 frames each of A220 within 2 days of each other.

Neeleman says B6 and ”Moxy” will not have one competing route. Well it’s hard to compete aginast yourself. I think if you read some of the press releases there are subliminal messages that David is throwing out there. Perhaps “Project Moxy” is not only a buyback and reinvestment into B6 but a reinvention and rebirth of B6.


Now there is an interesting conspiracy theory that I hadn't even considered. Honestly that doesn't sound that crazy. I totally think there are lots of people at B6 that would champion a return of the founder.

I listened to an NPR interview with Neeleman recently and he said a few interesting things about Moxy. One was to this day his loss of control over B6 still hurts him. Second was that he is structuring Moxy in a way that never again can a board of directors remove him from the helm. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

And widen the conspiracy theory, to include Air Baltic and then Etihad funding.
 
B6Aviator
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:11 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:27 pm

IPFreely wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
woops I said "I" instead of "you", corrected the post.

So.... YOU think one of the three main perpetrators are employees from OTHER airlines?

(implying I strongly disagree)


Of course it is. How is that even something you could disagree with??


Some of these threads may be started by employees of other airlines, but not all of them. One of the recent JetBlue threads was started by, and kept alive by, a disgruntled employee. Hopefully he will soon be fired since he clearly lacks the pride or guts to quit.


It's such a sad reality that B6 crew members would create or contribute to threads with the sole purpose of negatively disparaging the airline. No one is being held hostage and we are all free to leave at any time. I have traveled all over the world using the benefits of this little airline and appreciate the volunteer work they do in the communities. It's like going through a rough patch with your spouse and telling everyone at your place of business how horrible he/she is. Some things should be kept in house.

Working in Fort Lauderdale I have been able to build friendships with the great employees of NK, WN and many others. I would never talk down and wish for the downfall of other carriers, we can compete and see everyone prosper.
 
smflyer
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: B6 Situation

Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:28 pm

I think F9 and B6 should merge, but maintain two separate brands. The real advantage to this deal would be to convert the F9 DEN hub into a JetBlue branded hub as its an excellent connection point and enough O&D business travelers to support the more "premium" JetBlue brand. The rest of the F9 focus cities should maintain the Frontier branding and ULCC product offering as that is a highly profitable business model. After building up DEN, then can then merge with AS and finally have a full coast to coast network offering the "premium" JetBlue product in markets that can support it and offering the Frontier product in markets that are more price sensitive. The JetBlue product would be very similar to the legacy airlines services and the Frontier product will be what it is currently. Get rid of the Alaska brand, but have AS manage the combined entity as they have the best leadership team of the three.

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