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mercure1
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Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Air France A380 F-HPJC operating AF703 with 501 occupants from Abidjan to Paris suffered engine failure above Niger forced to turn back to Abidjan after fuel dumping.

Image

https://www.fratmat.info/index.php/nos- ... lein-vol-2
http://koaci.com/cote-divoire-soucis-te ... 28665.html

Early reports from crew indicate engine experiences compressor stall damaging fan blades and engine cowling.
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:36 pm

That said, for lack of a better description: looks pretty routine, in that the containment appears to have held.

Though if the statement that a compressor stall is accurate: wouldn't that tend to affect the parts more downstream of the engine core, rather than sending them forward toward the fan?

I guess the pressures are great enough to overcome both the aerodynamic forces + the blades' structural resistance?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:03 pm

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/wo ... n-11329626 says:

"We were flying over Niger (to Paris)... I saw a ball of flame for a few seconds and then a large bang on the left side of the aircraft," Baudelaire Mieu, a journalist with Bloomberg News, told AFP.

"The plane began to roll, everything was shaking and people started to panic. The pilot came on and said, 'We have just lost a left side engine. We are returning to Abidjan'," Mieu said.

Mieu said the giant four-engined aircraft, the world's biggest passenger jet, "continued to vibrate all the way back to Abidjan. People were praying".

"It was a close call. I have never been so frightened!"

Looks like AF will be paying a lot of dry cleaning bills.
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:08 pm

Engine change and any additional repairs won't be easy in ABJ.
Guess AF will be leasing an AN124 to deliver spare engine soon.
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Boair
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:14 pm

janders wrote:
Engine change and any additional repairs won't be easy in ABJ.
Guess AF will be leasing an AN124 to deliver spare engine soon.


I believe they could also ferry the plane back to CDG on 3 engine.
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:22 pm

Boair wrote:
janders wrote:
Engine change and any additional repairs won't be easy in ABJ.
Guess AF will be leasing an AN124 to deliver spare engine soon.


I believe they could also ferry the plane back to CDG on 3 engine.


Yes they could, recently an EY 388 had an engine problem in SYD and they ended up ferrying it back to AUH on 3 engines albeit via SIN, so it can be done
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:42 pm

It's possible what happened inside the engine caused so much vibration that the fan hit the casing.
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speedbird52
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:02 pm

For me the real news was that Air France flies the A380 to Abidjan. Interesting!
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:18 pm

must be some UFO activity over Africa...
 
MADPYRO
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:26 pm

Not a good day for aviation... 3 incidents in a day.... But could this be similar to QF32 at all?
A319/A320/A321/A388/B737/B738/B744/B752/B772/E190/F70
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:40 pm

MADPYRO wrote:
Not a good day for aviation... 3 incidents in a day.... But could this be similar to QF32 at all?


Very little similarity to QF32. Different engine type (AF uses GP7000) and different failures (this was fan blade failure, QF was rotor burst in the hot section). The only similarity is engine failure.

So we have ET, AF and what's the third incident?
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:42 pm

DocLightning wrote:
MADPYRO wrote:
Not a good day for aviation... 3 incidents in a day.... But could this be similar to QF32 at all?


Very little similarity to QF32. Different engine type (AF uses GP7000) and different failures (this was fan blade failure, QF was rotor burst in the hot section). The only similarity is engine failure.

So we have ET, AF and what's the third incident?


A DC-3 in Colombia....

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... &t=1417493

I guess I need to read up on my engine incidents again... apologies
A319/A320/A321/A388/B737/B738/B744/B752/B772/E190/F70
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:46 pm

DocLightning wrote:
MADPYRO wrote:
Not a good day for aviation... 3 incidents in a day.... But could this be similar to QF32 at all?


Very little similarity to QF32. Different engine type (AF uses GP7000) and different failures (this was fan blade failure, QF was rotor burst in the hot section). The only similarity is engine failure.

So we have ET, AF and what's the third incident?


The crash of the DC3 in Colombia killing 12 people.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1417493
 
EmoticonsAllDay
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:15 am

ET incident, DC3 incident and now this? Wow
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:51 am

speedbird52 wrote:
For me the real news was that Air France flies the A380 to Abidjan. Interesting!

Bigger news still is that it's filled it up! 501 onboard...
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:23 am

EChid wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
For me the real news was that Air France flies the A380 to Abidjan. Interesting!

Bigger news still is that it's filled it up! 501 onboard...

Hardly news at all.

Historical/colonial ties, preferred continental base of transit, business ties, limited frequency, and the lower end of market willing to pay high fares + significant baggage/cargo/shipment fees? ...AF and SN have been (for lack of a better word) exploiting this type of service for decades. Same with LAD.


Though what's usually interesting about ABJ, is people will pay top dollar for Y (it's not unusual to see 2wk prepurchase fares in the $1500-2000 range for roundtrip regular Y), whereas C often goes for a steal: that same flight that's selling Y for $2000 is so often selling C for "only" $2500-3000. I've rarely seen it above $4K roundtrip.

LAD on the other hand, is expensive as hell in all cabins.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am

4 engines 4 long haul seems a safe option again.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:21 am

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't there an engine incident involving a different AF A388 last year? As I recall, that ship was parked somewhere in Canada for a long time before it was deemed safe to return to France.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
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musicrab
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:33 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't there an engine incident involving a different AF A388 last year? As I recall, that ship was parked somewhere in Canada for a long time before it was deemed safe to return to France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_66
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:41 am

musicrab wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't there an engine incident involving a different AF A388 last year? As I recall, that ship was parked somewhere in Canada for a long time before it was deemed safe to return to France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_66


Thanks. I couldn't recall the specifics about AF66, so that refreshed my memory.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
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speedbird52
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:27 am

LAX772LR wrote:
EChid wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
For me the real news was that Air France flies the A380 to Abidjan. Interesting!

Bigger news still is that it's filled it up! 501 onboard...

Hardly news at all.

Historical/colonial ties, preferred continental base of transit, business ties, limited frequency, and the lower end of market willing to pay high fares + significant baggage/cargo/shipment fees? ...AF and SN have been (for lack of a better word) exploiting this type of service for decades. Same with LAD.


Though what's usually interesting about ABJ, is people will pay top dollar for Y (it's not unusual to see 2wk prepurchase fares in the $1500-2000 range for roundtrip regular Y), whereas C often goes for a steal: that same flight that's selling Y for $2000 is so often selling C for "only" $2500-3000. I've rarely seen it above $4K roundtrip.

LAD on the other hand, is expensive as hell in all cabins.

I guess that's just my assumptions about West Africa influencing my thoughts. That is really cool
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:15 am

MrBren wrote:
4 engines 4 long haul seems a safe option again.

Those twin engine planes with ever-larger engines are great when they’re both working but when one goes bang, those massive engines are a lot of drag!
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:52 am

Lrockeagle wrote:
MrBren wrote:
4 engines 4 long haul seems a safe option again.

Those twin engine planes with ever-larger engines are great when they’re both working but when one goes bang, those massive engines are a lot of drag!

But the odds of a catastrophic engine failure are twice as high on a four engine plane as they are on a twin. The real danger is an uncontained failure doing structural damage to the airframe, as in QF032, not in losing another engine. Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news? I do not recall any, although I know there have been a few.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:54 am

Revelation wrote:
Looks like AF will be paying a lot of dry cleaning bills.

I don't think AF will pay nor has ever paid a cleaning bill
Just joking btw
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:55 am

SEPilot wrote:
Those twin engine planes with ever-larger engines are great when they’re both working but when one goes bang, those massive engines are a lot of drag!
But the odds of a catastrophic engine failure are twice as high on a four engine plane as they are on a twin. The real danger is an uncontained failure doing structural damage to the airframe, as in QF032, not in losing another engine. Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news? I do not recall any, although I know there have been a few.


BA2276 is probably one of the best known example of a B777 uncontained engine failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_A ... light_2276
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:07 pm

afterburner33 wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Those twin engine planes with ever-larger engines are great when they’re both working but when one goes bang, those massive engines are a lot of drag!
But the odds of a catastrophic engine failure are twice as high on a four engine plane as they are on a twin. The real danger is an uncontained failure doing structural damage to the airframe, as in QF032, not in losing another engine. Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news? I do not recall any, although I know there have been a few.


BA2276 is probably one of the best known example of a B777 uncontained engine failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_A ... light_2276

Very interesting. Wonder what would have happened had the plane been in the air. My suspicion is that the fire, which caused most of the damage, would not have taken hold because the slipstream would have extinguished it. But that is just speculation.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:25 pm

SEPilot wrote:
Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news?


Reporting is strongly partisan.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:30 pm

WIederling wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news?


Reporting is strongly partisan.

Not really. Simple IFSDs are not getting much attention, it has to be something spectacular - blade damage and vibration from windmilling or fire/extra damage for such an accident to make the news.
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:35 pm

afterburner33 wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Those twin engine planes with ever-larger engines are great when they’re both working but when one goes bang, those massive engines are a lot of drag!
But the odds of a catastrophic engine failure are twice as high on a four engine plane as they are on a twin. The real danger is an uncontained failure doing structural damage to the airframe, as in QF032, not in losing another engine. Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news? I do not recall any, although I know there have been a few.


BA2276 is probably one of the best known example of a B777 uncontained engine failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_A ... light_2276

BA38 definitely made it to the news as well..
UA flight to Hawaii was fairly well reported.
Any diversion to the middle of nowhere island in Pacific also gets some media attention.
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:45 pm

FatCat wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Looks like AF will be paying a lot of dry cleaning bills.

I don't think AF will pay nor has ever paid a cleaning bill
Just joking btw


Good one, good one.......... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:51 pm

SEPilot wrote:
Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news? I do not recall any, although I know there have been a few.

Are these engine failures in any way related to the type of aircraft the engines are fitted to?
If not, the safety record of the A380 itself (3 major engine failures out of 200 frames) vs 777 is only relevant in a curious statistical way.
i.e. I will not fly that aircraft because it features those engines.

You also missed a trick, which you yourself had referenced. Each of the 200 A380s has four engines, so there are 800 engines available to fail.
This makes the 200 strong A380 fleet equivalent to 400 Boeing 777s. Obviously this is still way short of 1500 777s, so in that part you have a point.

I do agree the RR Trent 900 and GP7000 engines have somehow combined to reflect badly on the A380, but this is partly an illusion. A single failure on the RR engine, and two failures on the GP7000 are in the first place unrelated, and secondly only mildly statistically relevant at this stage. Still worth proper investigation certainly.
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:06 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Here we have three engine failures on A380s, two of them uncontained, that have made the news, and that is out of a fleet of around 200. Meanwhile, how many engine failures of the 777, of which over 1500 are flying, and have been flying much longer, have made the news? I do not recall any, although I know there have been a few.

Are these engine failures in any way related to the type of aircraft the engines are fitted to?
If not, the safety record of the A380 itself (3 major engine failures out of 200 frames) vs 777 is only relevant in a curious statistical way.
i.e. I will not fly that aircraft because it features those engines.

You also missed a trick, which you yourself had referenced. Each of the 200 A380s has four engines, so there are 800 engines available to fail.
This makes the 200 strong A380 fleet equivalent to 400 Boeing 777s. Obviously this is still way short of 1500 777s, so in that part you have a point.

I do agree the RR Trent 900 and GP7000 engines have somehow combined to reflect badly on the A380, but this is partly an illusion. A single failure on the RR engine, and two failures on the GP7000 are in the first place unrelated, and secondly only mildly statistically relevant at this stage. Still worth proper investigation certainly.

My point was to poke holes in the canard that four engines are safer than two. I think it’s the opposite. But it is opinion, I cannot prove it. Your chance of dying is probably greater by being struck by a meteorite than by being killed by an engine failure in a jetliner.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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flee
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:40 pm

When was the last time a four engined aircraft crashed because of engine problems? I can't recall one in recent times.
 
kalvado
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:54 pm

flee wrote:
When was the last time a four engined aircraft crashed because of engine problems? I can't recall one in recent times.

Again, all 2-engine losses I can think of happened because all engines were affected, rather than engines 1 and 2 while 3 and 4 could keep going in same situation.
I can think of 2 relatively recent events on 2-engine similar to magnitude to QF one; those were 2 write-of fs on the ground. What would happen if those were airborne events is a whole different story.
I may ask if primary risk reduction factor of 4-engine is using smaller engines which don't push the limit; but then latest narrowbody engine stories wouldn't support that as well.
 
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:33 pm

Were vibrations subsequent to the engine out due to windmilling of the damaged engine? Or some damage in the engine area of the plane?
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:49 am

Aircraft still in ABJ
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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Finn350
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:04 am

flee wrote:
When was the last time a four engined aircraft crashed because of engine problems? I can't recall one in recent times.


Latest must be AF4590, which was effectively a dual engine failure, albeit due to external causes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_4590

There probably are no other recent examples.
 
EChid
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Re: Air France A380 engine blades disintegrates diverts to Abidjan

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:13 pm

Finn350 wrote:
flee wrote:
When was the last time a four engined aircraft crashed because of engine problems? I can't recall one in recent times.


Latest must be AF4590, which was effectively a dual engine failure, albeit due to external causes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_4590

There probably are no other recent examples.

Keep in mind that there are probably fewer examples of this because there are also simply fewer four-engined aircraft in the skies. But yes, I like more engines too.

Although not technically engine failure (I believe it was more pylon failure), El Al flight 1962 is another example of engine issues that brought down a four-engined plane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862

But that was 1992, and shockingly catastrophic chain of events.
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