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DocLightning
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Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:43 am

https://www.ntd.com/mother-sues-spirit- ... 05538.html

A Michigan mother is suing Spirit Airlines for $75,000 after staff kicked her 15-year-old daughter off of a flight and left her unsupervised in the airport, the suit alleges.

Stacy Giordano was with her son and daughter on the flight, heading back to Michigan from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, in April 2018. They were scheduled to switch planes in Tampa, WXYZ reported.

Airline staff ushered Giordano’s 15-year-old daughter off of the flight in Tampa, without Giordano’s knowledge, as the daughter was seated in a different part of the plane from the mother and son.


NK did not tell the girl's mother what happened. They did not listen to the girl's pleas that her mother was on the flight and that she was only 15.

I wish NK would understand that a jury is never going to be sympathetic to the airline.
Last edited by DocLightning on Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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speedbird52
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:52 am

Perfectly justified lawsuit.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:12 am

If she was a year older this wouldn't have happened (16 is an adult).
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:13 am

1989worstyear wrote:
If she was a year older this wouldn't have happened (16 is an adult).


18 is an adult.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:19 am

I think that the amount that is being sued for is excessive, but I agree with the sentiment. I also think that the airline's boilerplate response - the safety of our passengers is our greatest concern, blah blah blah - is nothing more than lip service. Do these PR spokesholes not understand how stupid and unfeeling they actually sound? Or, do they just not care?
 
ScottB
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:41 am

DocLightning wrote:
NK did not tell the girl's mother what happened. They did not listen to the girl's pleas that her mother was on the flight and that she was only 15.

I wish NK would understand that a jury is never going to be sympathetic to the airline.


I doubt this will ever go to a jury -- it'd be way cheaper for NK to settle rather than litigate. No matter what, it seems patently obvious that NK's conduct came nowhere near a reasonable standard of care; apart from a flight being cancelled outright, minors, accompanied or not, are the very last passengers who should be bumped by any carrier because they are not adults (unless an entire family is bumped). In the era of Secure Flight, the airline has access to the passenger's date of birth and the system should flag minors as such in the case of potential oversales.

And heck, the girl even told NK's incompetent outsourced airport staff that her mom was on the plane. I'd freak out too if I'd boarded a flight with my kid and he or she wasn't still on that flight when we arrived at our destination.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:42 am

I think it's ridiculous that families can't easliy book seats together on NK. So long as one of the passengers takes the center seat, they should accommodate them in adjacent seats.
 
questions
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:47 am

Another example of most US airlines’ operating philosophy...

The Customer is the Enemy!
 
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wiggy
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:23 am

that's outragious
 
Heinkel
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:46 am

I'm missing something in the story. May be my English is not good enough to understand.

The unanswered question is: Had the dauhgter already boarded the a/c and was seated, when she was bumped off the flight? The article says:

Airline staff ushered Giordano’s 15-year-old daughter off of the flight in Tampa, without Giordano’s knowledge, as the daughter was seated in a different part of the plane from the mother and son.

“They didn’t want to hear anything. They just pulled her off the plane,” Giordano’s lawyer, Jerry Thurswell, told WXYZ.


"They pulled her off the plane". What does that mean? Is this another case of pulling an already seated passenger out of an airliner (for whatever reason)?

Or did the airline just refused her boarding? In this case, why didn't the mother make sure, that her juvenile daughter really boarded the flight? In this case, it is the mother's fault.

Can anyone explain?
 
Heinkel
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:51 am

DocLightning wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
If she was a year older this wouldn't have happened (16 is an adult).


18 is an adult.


How can you call yourself an adult, when you are not allowed to drink a beer (not to mention liquor)?
 
art
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:05 am

The lawsuit says Giordano “became sick, suffered a panic attack and suffered great emotional distress, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma” due to the situation, according to Cox Media.


Blimey! I think this young lady must have a very low threshold if an admittedly distressing delay can provoke sickness, a panic attack, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma. I feel very lucky that I have never experienced being a 15 year old girl if being bumped off a plane means you will probably have to spend the rest of your life in therapy or an asylum. Is $75,000 enough? :smile:

Don't get me wrong: inexcusable, stupid behaviour by the airline IMO.
 
JHwk
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:12 am

Burn, baby burn. Nice knowing you, NK. Completely supportive of bankrupting them for their stupidity.
 
PBITran
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:14 am

art wrote:
The lawsuit says Giordano “became sick, suffered a panic attack and suffered great emotional distress, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma” due to the situation, according to Cox Media.


Blimey! I think this young lady must have a very low threshold if an admittedly distressing delay can provoke sickness, a panic attack, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma. I feel very lucky that I have never experienced being a 15 year old girl if being bumped off a plane means you will probably have to spend the rest of your life in therapy or an asylum. Is $75,000 enough? :smile:

Don't get me wrong: inexcusable, stupid behaviour by the airline IMO.



Welcome to America.
And based on seeing thousands of Spirit passengers daily at FLL, I'd be willing to bet money she was dressed like an adult.
 
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Lilienthal
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:25 am

Heinkel wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
If she was a year older this wouldn't have happened (16 is an adult).


18 is an adult.


How can you call yourself an adult, when you are not allowed to drink a beer (not to mention liquor)?



Probably in a place where alcohol consumption is not used as a measurement for adulthood.
 
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kearnet
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:27 am

Heinkel wrote:
I'm missing something in the story. May be my English is not good enough to understand.

The unanswered question is: Had the dauhgter already boarded the a/c and was seated, when she was bumped off the flight? The article says:

Airline staff ushered Giordano’s 15-year-old daughter off of the flight in Tampa, without Giordano’s knowledge, as the daughter was seated in a different part of the plane from the mother and son.

“They didn’t want to hear anything. They just pulled her off the plane,” Giordano’s lawyer, Jerry Thurswell, told WXYZ.


"They pulled her off the plane". What does that mean? Is this another case of pulling an already seated passenger out of an airliner (for whatever reason)?

Or did the airline just refused her boarding? In this case, why didn't the mother make sure, that her juvenile daughter really boarded the flight? In this case, it is the mother's fault.

Can anyone explain?


This is a case where the flight was oversold, (ie: they had 151 passengers show for a plane that only holds 150). I’m guessing Spirit, like most US airlines, chooses who gets bumped based on fare, loyalty, and check in sequence.

Usually the bumped party is informed and sorted before boarding. In this case they weren't and unfortunately this girl was the one chosen to be overloaded. I’m assuming the agents came to the girl and simply asked her to come with them without context, planning to tell her why at the desk to “avoid a scene” on the plane. Unfortunetly they turned a deaf ear to what she was telling them, which quite understandably caused her to become hysterical. The staff possibly assuming she was “just saying she was a minor traveling with family” to get back on.
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:30 am

art wrote:
The lawsuit says Giordano “became sick, suffered a panic attack and suffered great emotional distress, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma” due to the situation, according to Cox Media.


Blimey! I think this young lady must have a very low threshold if an admittedly distressing delay can provoke sickness, a panic attack, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma. I feel very lucky that I have never experienced being a 15 year old girl if being bumped off a plane means you will probably have to spend the rest of your life in therapy or an asylum. Is $75,000 enough? :smile:

Don't get me wrong: inexcusable, stupid behaviour by the airline IMO.


Or maybe because she was pulled off the aircraft while her family were still on board, and thus stranded alone in the airport with no idea why? I'm sure many 15 year olds would panic a bit.
 
art
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:32 am

PBITran wrote:
art wrote:

Welcome to America.
And based on seeing thousands of Spirit passengers daily at FLL, I'd be willing to bet money she was dressed like an adult.


Just curious. How does American adult dress differ from non-adult dress? I'm used to spending most of my time in England, France and Portugal and while I don't spend too much time studying 15 year old girls, I don't think that what they wear is too different to what 20 year old women wear.

PS Not that I spend too much time studying 20 year old women either. With the partner I've got, if I were caught doing so I think her reaction would cause me sickness, a panic attack, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma.
 
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:37 am

art wrote:
The lawsuit says Giordano “became sick, suffered a panic attack and suffered great emotional distress, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma” due to the situation, according to Cox Media.


Blimey! I think this young lady must have a very low threshold if an admittedly distressing delay can provoke sickness, a panic attack, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma. I feel very lucky that I have never experienced being a 15 year old girl if being bumped off a plane means you will probably have to spend the rest of your life in therapy or an asylum. Is $75,000 enough? :smile:

Don't get me wrong: inexcusable, stupid behaviour by the airline IMO.

Having your mother be literally hundreds of miles away from you can easily cause all of those symptoms in a child. I doubt the 15 year old in question has any knowledge of the aviation industry, and I am not sure she would know who even to talk to. Assuming she was socially anxious, or not skilled in dealing with people that could make things even worse for you. She might not have had money on her either. As mature people, we can make fun of what she went through because we know we would deal with it differently, but at 15 maturity levels differ drastically. I knew a lot of 15 year olds for who that could be the exact reaction. Then again, I knew some 15 year olds who wouldn't have cared less.
 
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:40 am

art wrote:
PBITran wrote:
art wrote:

Welcome to America.
And based on seeing thousands of Spirit passengers daily at FLL, I'd be willing to bet money she was dressed like an adult.


Just curious. How does American adult dress differ from non-adult dress? I'm used to spending most of my time in England, France and Portugal and while I don't spend too much time studying 15 year old girls, I don't think that what they wear is too different to what 20 year old women wear.

PS Not that I spend too much time studying 20 year old women either. With the partner I've got, if I were caught doing so I think her reaction would cause me sickness, a panic attack, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma.

I assume he was suggesting that she was dressed in a sexually provocative manner, which is a comment that should never be made about a 15 year old to anyone except an authority figure like a boss, teacher, or parent. I don't see how she was dressed has anything to do with this.

That PS wins the internet for today.
 
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:18 am

Heinkel wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
If she was a year older this wouldn't have happened (16 is an adult).


18 is an adult.


How can you call yourself an adult, when you are not allowed to drink a beer (not to mention liquor)?


Spirit considers 15 old enough to fly alone without using an unaccompanied minor program.

https://customersupport.spirit.com/hc/e ... vel-alone-

The age at which airlines allow children to travel alone varies per airline, Southwest even allows 12-year olds to travel alone unaccompanied. Delta on the other hand requires you to be 16.

Of course this does not justify Spirit breaking up groups (families) who were booked together. They should have checked her booking before they bumped her. If she would have been traveling alone she could rightfully have been bumped as then she would be no different from an adult. But she wasn't alone, she was in a group. As I said before, Spirit should have checked that.

The drinking age also varies per country. The USA has one of the highest drinking ages at 21, while other countries have set this limit to 18 or even 16 years old. And there are even countries that do not have a legal drinking age limit.
 
Heinkel
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:38 am

kearnet wrote:
This is a case where the flight was oversold, (ie: they had 151 passengers show for a plane that only holds 150). I’m guessing Spirit, like most US airlines, chooses who gets bumped based on fare, loyalty, and check in sequence.

Usually the bumped party is informed and sorted before boarding. In this case they weren't and unfortunately this girl was the one chosen to be overloaded. I’m assuming the agents came to the girl and simply asked her to come with them without context, planning to tell her why at the desk to “avoid a scene” on the plane. Unfortunetly they turned a deaf ear to what she was telling them, which quite understandably caused her to become hysterical. The staff possibly assuming she was “just saying she was a minor traveling with family” to get back on.


I thought after the drama with UA and Dr. Dao they changed the rules and now they no longer pull back passengers from the aircraft, when they are already seated. So now I'm surprised to read, that they did exactly the same thing again.

May be the FAs looked for the softest target and choose the young girl to leave the plane. She must be happy, that they didn't beat her and dragged her along the aisle.

I know what overbooking means and more than 30 years ago I was denied boarding on a LH flight, because I was a bit late and they had sold my seat otherwise. The real no-go is to kick pax out of the plane, when they are already seated on their seat with a valid ticket.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:48 am

Heinkel wrote:
May be the FAs looked for the softest target and choose the young girl to leave the plane. She must be happy, that they didn't beat her and dragged her along the aisle.


On the other hand, if they did, that would sure have caught the attention of her family who would then no doubt have stepped in.

If the flight was overbooked, why didn't they just ask for volunteers to get bumped? There's always someone willing to give up his or her seat. Instead they picked a "volunteer" which is never a good idea.
 
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:59 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
I think that the amount that is being sued for is excessive


It's just an opening stance for a negotiating tactic.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
kalvado
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:06 am

15 year old travelling with family may lack basic resources to manage such situation on their own. Full ticketing information, ID, credit card with enough funds are the baremost minimum to feel comfortable. If she had to stay overnight, would she be able to book a hotel and reenter security checkpoint, for example?
 
art
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:10 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
If the flight was overbooked, why didn't they just ask for volunteers to get bumped? There's always someone willing to give up his or her seat. Instead they picked a "volunteer" which is never a good idea.


Perhaps the airline did not want to pay anything. Who would volunteer to have their travel plan disrupted without compensation?

In the EU I think you would legally be entitled to compensation of 200 euros (or more) so being bumped requires you being compensated,
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:23 am

art wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
If the flight was overbooked, why didn't they just ask for volunteers to get bumped? There's always someone willing to give up his or her seat. Instead they picked a "volunteer" which is never a good idea.


Perhaps the airline did not want to pay anything. Who would volunteer to have their travel plan disrupted without compensation?

In the EU I think you would legally be entitled to compensation of 200 euros (or more) so being bumped requires you being compensated,


Very true, although the amount of money varies per length of the flight and the delay. It goes from anywhere between € 125 (flights less than 1500 kilometers with a maximum delay of 2 hours) up to € 600 (flights over 3500 kilometers with a delay over 4 hours). As a matter of fact I'm surprised such laws don't exist in the USA.

By the way, these compensations are exactly the reason Ryanair doesn't overbook. They rather sell a seat less than having to pay compensation.

Of course it was very stupid of Spirit not wanting to pay regular compensation. Now it's going to cost them a whole lot more money. The British call that penny wise, pound foolish.
 
waly777
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:45 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
art wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
If the flight was overbooked, why didn't they just ask for volunteers to get bumped? There's always someone willing to give up his or her seat. Instead they picked a "volunteer" which is never a good idea.


Perhaps the airline did not want to pay anything. Who would volunteer to have their travel plan disrupted without compensation?

In the EU I think you would legally be entitled to compensation of 200 euros (or more) so being bumped requires you being compensated,


Very true, although the amount of money varies per length of the flight and the delay. It goes from anywhere between € 125 (flights less than 1500 kilometers with a maximum delay of 2 hours) up to € 600 (flights over 3500 kilometers with a delay over 4 hours). As a matter of fact I'm surprised such laws don't exist in the USA.

By the way, these compensations are exactly the reason Ryanair doesn't overbook. They rather sell a seat less than having to pay compensation.

Of course it was very stupid of Spirit not wanting to pay regular compensation. Now it's going to cost them a whole lot more money. The British call that penny wise, pound foolish.


The law does exist, $1350 cash for involuntary denied boarding. Plus reacc to the next flight, if this is the next day, hotel, food and transport will be provided too.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:52 am

Airstud wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
I think that the amount that is being sued for is excessive


It's just an opening stance for a negotiating tactic.



It is quite low in my opinion. It is astonishing NK has to be sued for that amount. A court case will cost more. No way NK will win at court.

A 15 year old traveling with her family? Who expects her to have a credit card, or enough funds if she has to book a hotel if something really goes wrong? She has perhaps a few dollars on her. IMO this should have been a criminal investigation with arresting the persons responsible for endangering a child, but it seems to be aloud in the USA to separate children from their parents.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:29 pm

waly777 wrote:
The law does exist, $1350 cash for involuntary denied boarding. Plus reacc to the next flight, if this is the next day, hotel, food and transport will be provided too.


But that's only for involuntary. The amounts I mentioned are for volunteering to get bumped. It's in the law, if the flight is oversold and you volunteer to get bumped the airline must pay that amount of money to you. Of course for involuntary bumping the amount of money is a whole lot higher, so airlines always try voluntary bumping first.

art wrote:
Perhaps the airline did not want to pay anything.


Then they should not have overbooked in the first place. Overbooking always costs money, no exceptions.

The way I read it, they were not willing to pay the small compensation for voluntary bumping. Instead they chose involuntary bumping. Not a very smart decision as involuntary bumping costs more than voluntary bumping.

And of course it's very much possible to run a profitable ULCC airline without overbooking. Just look at Ryanair, they don't overbook and they never have any issues. They never have to pay any compensations.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:07 pm

If I suddenly discovered my child was seperated fron me on a flight I would be livid. The first instinct of a child in trouble is likely call mum, who you cannot reach because she IS on the plane.

You got two basic solutions to problems between parties. Regulations to prevent bad things happening or suing people afterwards to encourage them to do the right thing in advance. Different parts of the world emphasize one over the other.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:14 pm

It will take an act of congress that families flying together should be seated together, or at least nearby in the case of older dependent children. This law needs to be proposed and passed. Sarcasm alert: After all, airlines only exist to make profits for stockholders.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:30 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
It will take an act of congress that families flying together should be seated together, or at least nearby in the case of older dependent children. This law needs to be proposed and passed. Sarcasm alert: After all, airlines only exist to make profits for stockholders.


This does not necessarily have to be the case. They can be seated in separate parts of the plane, however in case of anyone being bumped they should always check the booking. Is this person traveling alone or part of a group? Groups should never be split up, either the whole group gets bumped or nobody on the group gets bumped. This should be an easy rule to get implemented.

Of course if it doesn't work then there is only one solution: totally disallow overbooking. Airlines have to show they can be responsible for their passengers. If they can't, their rights need to be restricted. That might mean less profit, but that's their own fault. They should have shown responsibility when they had the chance.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:40 pm

I would be equally outraged should the person being bumped was my wife, and I only found out about it after arriving and de-boarded at destination.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:02 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
I would be equally outraged should the person being bumped was my wife, and I only found out about it after arriving and de-boarded at destination.


The difference is that your wife is an adult, she can take care of herself. Of course that doesn't make it right, but still less bad. Your wife can act responsible, she'll be fine. But a child is different, a child cannot act responsible in a situation like this. That makes all the difference in the world.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:16 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
art wrote:
The lawsuit says Giordano “became sick, suffered a panic attack and suffered great emotional distress, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma” due to the situation, according to Cox Media.


Blimey! I think this young lady must have a very low threshold if an admittedly distressing delay can provoke sickness, a panic attack, extreme fear, horror, mental shock, mental anguish and psychological trauma. I feel very lucky that I have never experienced being a 15 year old girl if being bumped off a plane means you will probably have to spend the rest of your life in therapy or an asylum. Is $75,000 enough? :smile:

Don't get me wrong: inexcusable, stupid behaviour by the airline IMO.

Having your mother be literally hundreds of miles away from you can easily cause all of those symptoms in a child. I doubt the 15 year old in question has any knowledge of the aviation industry, and I am not sure she would know who even to talk to. Assuming she was socially anxious, or not skilled in dealing with people that could make things even worse for you. She might not have had money on her either. As mature people, we can make fun of what she went through because we know we would deal with it differently, but at 15 maturity levels differ drastically. I knew a lot of 15 year olds for who that could be the exact reaction. Then again, I knew some 15 year olds who wouldn't have cared less.


Yet many US states (including MI) send young people through the adult legal system when they're only two years older. I think that is more scarring at 17 than being bumped off a plane at 15 w/o your parents (i.e. Kalief Browder).

Same goes with all of NZ, and I think the UK juvenile justice ends at 16 also.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:21 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
I would be equally outraged should the person being bumped was my wife, and I only found out about it after arriving and de-boarded at destination.


The difference is that your wife is an adult, she can take care of herself. Of course that doesn't make it right, but still less bad. Your wife can act responsible, she'll be fine. But a child is different, a child cannot act responsible in a situation like this. That makes all the difference in the world.


If the girl was a year of two older you wouldn't be saying this.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
gunnerman
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:56 pm

Quite apart from offloading the girl, NK gave a refund on one ticket and offered extra flight miles - which was no doubt regarded as an insult by the mother.
 
IADCA
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:06 pm

Airstud wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
I think that the amount that is being sued for is excessive


It's just an opening stance for a negotiating tactic.


$75K is the minimum amount of damages you need to allege to get a suit based on diversity jurisdiction (as this one is) into federal court. You're correct that they can settle for less, but that's almost certainly why this particular amount was chosen.
 
waly777
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:38 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
waly777 wrote:
The law does exist, $1350 cash for involuntary denied boarding. Plus reacc to the next flight, if this is the next day, hotel, food and transport will be provided too.


But that's only for involuntary. The amounts I mentioned are for volunteering to get bumped. It's in the law, if the flight is oversold and you volunteer to get bumped the airline must pay that amount of money to you. Of course for involuntary bumping the amount of money is a whole lot higher, so airlines always try voluntary bumping first.


Not really, the amounts you mentioned are actually involuntary for Europe. Airlines can offer cash, vouchers, miles etc as incentives for volunteers to DB. Involuntary is what comes with cash amounts dependent on distance and time limitations with a €600 cap.The USA has similar laws but the cap is $1350


Then they should not have overbooked in the first place. Overbooking always costs money, no exceptions..


Airlines overbook because the revenue benefits outweigh the cost (I'm talking DB compensation, hotels, transport, rebooking flights) at least 5x and more in most cases. Overbooking simply put, is forecasting pax behaviour. Forecasts are rarely ever 100% accurate and thus you have occasional DB..... however, solid airlines have process to deal with it and what this airline did was just ridiculous.
The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
 
speedbird52
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:32 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
I would be equally outraged should the person being bumped was my wife, and I only found out about it after arriving and de-boarded at destination.


The difference is that your wife is an adult, she can take care of herself. Of course that doesn't make it right, but still less bad. Your wife can act responsible, she'll be fine. But a child is different, a child cannot act responsible in a situation like this. That makes all the difference in the world.


If the girl was a year of two older you wouldn't be saying this.

A year or two can make a big difference in maturity. The person I was when I was 17 and the person I was when I was 15 were nearly unrecognizable
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:49 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:

The difference is that your wife is an adult, she can take care of herself. Of course that doesn't make it right, but still less bad. Your wife can act responsible, she'll be fine. But a child is different, a child cannot act responsible in a situation like this. That makes all the difference in the world.


If the girl was a year of two older you wouldn't be saying this.

A year or two can make a big difference in maturity. The person I was when I was 17 and the person I was when I was 15 were nearly unrecognizable


We should just make 16 the adult age everywhere. A 16 or 17 year old clearly has more in common with a 20- something than a 15 year old.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
speedbird52
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:43 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

If the girl was a year of two older you wouldn't be saying this.

A year or two can make a big difference in maturity. The person I was when I was 17 and the person I was when I was 15 were nearly unrecognizable


We should just make 16 the adult age everywhere. A 16 or 17 year old clearly has more in common with a 20- something than a 15 year old.

Science shows that you aren't fully mentally developed until around 25. Based off of my anecdotal experience I don't feel that 16 year olds can be considered adults. I don't suggest that we coddle teenagers by calling them kids until the age of 25 either though.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:44 pm

speedbird52 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
A year or two can make a big difference in maturity. The person I was when I was 17 and the person I was when I was 15 were nearly unrecognizable


We should just make 16 the adult age everywhere. A 16 or 17 year old clearly has more in common with a 20- something than a 15 year old.

Science shows that you aren't fully mentally developed until around 25. Based off of my anecdotal experience I don't feel that 16 year olds can be considered adults. I don't suggest that we coddle teenagers by calling them kids until the age of 25 either though.


So when do we stop calling them kids/children? Why do some countries even allow these ages (15-17) to occupy the same school if a 17 year old has more in common with somebody who's 24.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
speedbird52
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:21 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

We should just make 16 the adult age everywhere. A 16 or 17 year old clearly has more in common with a 20- something than a 15 year old.

Science shows that you aren't fully mentally developed until around 25. Based off of my anecdotal experience I don't feel that 16 year olds can be considered adults. I don't suggest that we coddle teenagers by calling them kids until the age of 25 either though.


So when do we stop calling them kids/children? Why do some countries even allow these ages (15-17) to occupy the same school if a 17 year old has more in common with somebody who's 24.

I don't think a 17 year old has more in common with someone in their 20s. I just think that there GENERALLY is a gap in maturity between 15 and 17 year olds. Sometimes the gap is larger, sometimes it is smaller
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:06 pm

The age of the girl plays a role of course, but in the end it's the simple idea of kicking someone while they're telling you they're with someone else on the aircraft that's the main problem, then of course add to it that it's the mother.

I don't have kids yet but I hope when I have some that they would be OK in this situation at 15.

BTW 15 is the age of consent in France.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:16 am

mjoelnir wrote:

A 15 year old traveling with her family? Who expects her to have a credit card, or enough funds if she has to book a hotel if something really goes wrong? She has perhaps a few dollars on her. IMO this should have been a criminal investigation with arresting the persons responsible for endangering a child, but it seems to be aloud in the USA to separate children from their parents.


It did occur to me that there might be a case for child abduction here.

Aesma wrote:
I don't have kids yet but I hope when I have some that they would be OK in this situation at 15.


That depends. When you are traveling as a parent of a kid of that age (in the U.S. most teens don't acquire their own photo ID other than a passport until they get their driver's license at 16), the assumption is that you will not be involuntarily separated. If she was going to travel alone, presumably her family would have ensured that he had ID and maybe an ATM card or loadable cash card or something for contingencies. In this case, there was no opportunity to prepare for this eventuality because what parent in their right mind would assume that an airline would disembark a minor traveling with a parent...without the parent?

Can you imagine if the next flight was delayed due to weather and now the girl had no money, no checked luggage, no ID, and NK, of course, refused to put her up in a hotel?
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LTU932
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Re: Pax suing NK for bumping her 15yo daughter without informing her

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:21 am

Aesma wrote:
BTW 15 is the age of consent in France.
Here in Costa Rica, it's when you become a legal adult at 18. In Germany it's weird: the age of consent is 14 if your partner is also underage, otherwise it's 16. Age of consent has, at least for me, more something to do with when you can consent to sex than to any legal issues.

Hell, the juvenile penal system over in Germany is also a mind of its own, because once you hit 18 and are criminally charged, you could still be sentenced by the juvenile penal code upon recommendation until you hit 21, because between 18 and 21 you're not considered an adult under German penal law (you're considered a "Heranwachsender", basically a post-adolescent).
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