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WesternDC6B
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:55 pm

A rumor i am trying to start is that the 737 MAX12 is in the works. It will be 24 feet longer, and use the same landing gear,

They can do this because runways are being built with a trench down the middle. Doing so will allow for a decent angle of attack at rotation, and also for a good flare angle at landing.

For the humorless bluenoses, please bear in mind that it is 1 April.
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caverunner17
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:58 pm

Prost wrote:
Somewhere there is an overhead picture of a 737 and 707, I believe military versions. The difference in wings is striking. The 707 wings look like they could be made out of sheets of plywood.

Out of curiosity, was the original 707 wing design out of lack of experience from engineers at the time to develop a smaller/lighter wing or was it a limit of available materials / manufacturing process?
 
mzlin
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:05 pm

Okay here's a quick and dirty job. I made the red lines to trace the fuselage contour on the 737-10, then superimposed on the 737-9. It doesn't seem obvious that there is a change in body sculpting. Maybe that was dropped upon final design of the telescoping landing gear. It always seemed to me to be an expensive thing to do.

Image

737-9 max photo is from March 2018 (https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/03/13 ... st-flight/). This was almost exactly a year ago (you can see the plum blossoms in the background).

The unpainted fuselage allows you to see the circumferential body join lines; this helps with matching the two types but and also helps you notice the two photos are not perfectly alignable. The 737-10 photo is taken from closer, so the parallax effect is stronger. The midpoint of the photo appears to be right around the 737max10 logo on the 737-10, and where the three windows are filled in on the 737-9 (here the body join line appears vertical, so the fuselage is perpendicular to the observer). The 737-10 body join lines in the aft sections are more curved because the body at that point is at a non-perpendicular angle to the observer -- also the fuselage appears to shrink and shorten more, so the 737-10 aft section ends up not looking longer than the 737-9 in the photo, although in actuality it is one row longer. So the comparison is not ideal. We will have to wait for a 737-10 photo taken from a longer distance.

Anyway you can see most of the growth is in front of the wing. Also Boeing managed to place back a missing window near the front edge of the wing.
Last edited by mzlin on Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Coalways
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:11 pm

Nice United is going to have the 3rd exit doors wonder if it will have the same configuration as the 757-300 where the LAVs are forward of the extra doors.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:18 pm

Vile people thinking its ok to make jokes about plane crashes. Disgusting! Have some of you NO shame!!????
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707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
9Patch
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:29 pm

tomaheath wrote:
It would be nice if UA kept that “ first MAX10” on the side.


How much longer is it compared to the Max 8 and 9?
How many more rows of seating?
 
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DocLightning
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:30 pm

This one is going to UA, right? If so, does anyone know what reg UA is going to use for it?
-Doc Lightning-

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PlanesNTrains
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:49 pm

WesternDC6B wrote:
For the humorless bluenoses, please bear in mind that it is 1 April.


In fairness, “humor” is in the eye of the beholder, and what you may think is funny might actually be more of an “uh-huh”. When I was younger, April Fools tended to actually be plausible suggestions, not just the a.net “it must be funny cuz it’s 4/1” stuff. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:53 pm

DocLightning wrote:
This one is going to UA, right? If so, does anyone know what reg UA is going to use for it?

737-10 will start at fleet number 7751. So registrations will be Nx7751, Nx7752 and so on I assume. Just like the MAX 9.
 
dwhonan
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:22 pm

mzlin wrote:
... The 737-10 photo is taken from closer, so the parallax effect is stronger. The midpoint of the photo appears to be right around the 737max10 logo on the 737-10, and where the three windows are filled in on the 737-9 (here the body join line appears vertical, so the fuselage is perpendicular to the observer). The 737-10 body join lines in the aft sections are more curved because the body at that point is at a non-perpendicular angle to the observer -- also the fuselage appears to shrink and shorten more, so the 737-10 aft section ends up not looking longer than the 737-9 in the photo, although in actuality it is one row longer. So the comparison is not ideal. We will have to wait for a 737-10 photo taken from a longer distance.


Nice detective work! My photo was taken at 35mm on a 6D (full-frame). The original plan was for a more distant, broadside composition, but the railroad's last-minute operating plan change blew that -- and resulted in scramble to drive 45 minutes just to get these shots in the waning light of evening.

-Dave
 
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XAM2175
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:52 pm

Northpole wrote:
cha747 wrote:
Northpole wrote:
Shooting at railwaycars ?

The fuselages are attached to flat bed railroad cars and transported in the open

Thanks very much for the link - Yes I knew that> but seriously ... are people shooting at the trains and the fuselages passing by from time to time ?Yikes... In such a case I find it irresponsible to transport the fuselages on open railroad cars. Clearly there are double stacked containers on the train with a profile larger( higher) than a covering hood over the fuselages would make... ( for passage under bridges and through tunnels ) Furthermore those railroad cars carrying the fuselages seems to be a of very standardized type. Correct me if I am wrong.


Unfortunately yes, certain people do like to use the trains for target practice. The fuselages are inspected upon arrival at Renton and repaired where necessary.

The transport of airframe components by rail in the US is actually very common (have a look at http://www.planesontrains.com/) but the 737 is the only one (IIRC) to have the entire fuselage moved in one piece, and it's the length that precludes the use of enclosed cars.

You're correct in noticing that there are loads on the train taller and/or wider than the fuselages, and that these are still within the loading gauge, but an additional consideration is the kinematic envelope - the additional clearance required to ensure that a car built and loaded to the maximum loading gauge will not exceed the structure gauge while in motion.

Or tl;dr - the fuselages are longer than the cars they're carried on, but the cars can't be any longer. When the train takes a curve, the tail of the fuselage swings out and so can't be enclosed.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:31 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Unfortunately yes, certain people do like to use the trains for target practice. The fuselages are inspected upon arrival at Renton and repaired where necessary.

Does Boeing take ownership of the fuselage before, or after the train trip?

Aluminum is relatively easy to repair compared to composites, are there any large composite components shipped this way?
Last edited by NameOmitted on Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jchaase
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:57 am

Why is the 7644 in a serif font? I've noticed this on other aircraft in assembly phase, as well as ships.

Obviously sans-serif is possible, as it's that way under the "first MAX-10" area. Is it a situation of having always done it that way so they've never changed?
 
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Veigar
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:57 am

Would this aircraft be allowed to fly now in a hypothetical world where it is put together and in UA's fleet? Since it doesn't require MCAS..?
 
mzlin
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:02 am

dwhonan wrote:
mzlin wrote:
... The 737-10 photo is taken from closer, so the parallax effect is stronger. The midpoint of the photo appears to be right around the 737max10 logo on the 737-10, and where the three windows are filled in on the 737-9 (here the body join line appears vertical, so the fuselage is perpendicular to the observer). The 737-10 body join lines in the aft sections are more curved because the body at that point is at a non-perpendicular angle to the observer -- also the fuselage appears to shrink and shorten more, so the 737-10 aft section ends up not looking longer than the 737-9 in the photo, although in actuality it is one row longer. So the comparison is not ideal. We will have to wait for a 737-10 photo taken from a longer distance.


Nice detective work! My photo was taken at 35mm on a 6D (full-frame). The original plan was for a more distant, broadside composition, but the railroad's last-minute operating plan change blew that -- and resulted in scramble to drive 45 minutes just to get these shots in the waning light of evening.

-Dave


Thanks for the photo, Dave! Getting news of aircraft developments from spotters like you, well before the company or the press, is what makes this site great!

Also looks like the photo URL I used was a temporary one; hopefully the below works better

Image
 
traindoc
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:06 am

dwhonan wrote:
Hi, photographer here. These photos are 100% real -- there wouldn't have been an April Fool's conflict if the train had arrived a week ago as scheduled!

One of the shots is now in the database, too.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitle ... AX/5472523

-Dave


Thanks for the photos! I am sorry that some people made stupid comments about your efforts.

Regards,

Traindoc
 
Max Q
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:14 am

caverunner17 wrote:
Prost wrote:
Somewhere there is an overhead picture of a 737 and 707, I believe military versions. The difference in wings is striking. The 707 wings look like they could be made out of sheets of plywood.

Out of curiosity, was the original 707 wing design out of lack of experience from engineers at the time to develop a smaller/lighter wing or was it a limit of available materials / manufacturing process?



Neither


There’s a very good reason for the larger wing on the 707. It is a much heavier aircraft (over 350k gross weight) with four engines that required a larger wing to lift that weight and contain the fuel to allow over a 6000 mile range.


It was quite advanced for its day, significantly more than the wing on its DC8 competitor and had a higher cruise speed as a result
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7673mech
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:22 am

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Has MCAS been installed yet?


Tasteless. If you have nothing to add to thread, keep your opinions to yourself.
 
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Revelation
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:31 am

caverunner17 wrote:
Prost wrote:
Somewhere there is an overhead picture of a 737 and 707, I believe military versions. The difference in wings is striking. The 707 wings look like they could be made out of sheets of plywood.

Out of curiosity, was the original 707 wing design out of lack of experience from engineers at the time to develop a smaller/lighter wing or was it a limit of available materials / manufacturing process?

I would suggest we consider the 707 was derived from the KC-135 whose mission was to be a flying gas station, and its original engines were non-bypass turbofans whose efficiency is atrocious by today's standards.
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MD80Ttail
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:52 am

But the noise and especially smoke was so cooler.....especially the ones with water injection from that period.
 
United1
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:10 am

ikolkyo wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
This one is going to UA, right? If so, does anyone know what reg UA is going to use for it?

737-10 will start at fleet number 7751. So registrations will be Nx7751, Nx7752 and so on I assume. Just like the MAX 9.


Just a guess but N67751 had a hold placed on it in February...
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AvFanNJ
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:10 am

Avgeek21 wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Has MCAS been installed yet?


AFAIK the MAX 10 will not have any MCAS at all. Only MAX 8 and 9’s.

I didn't know this. Does the 66 inch stretch change the aerodynamics enough to dispense with it? And sorry if that's a bit off topic. Not trying to offend anyone here, just curious.
 
GalebG4
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:35 am

Can’t wait to see it assembled. MAX 8 and MAX 9 are certified for same engine models so engine of MAX 10 could be on BBJ max 8. I thought Boeing could simply production of MAX family by simply making only MAX 9 wings and central fuselage . Weight might be slightly bigger, but production could be probably improved by simply streamlining it when it comes to production and production of parts for more units. That way all MAX’s could in theory have same MTOW, so any airline if it wants could get bigger MTOW version of MAX 8 family as the airbus sells a350ULR. I know boeing had a plan for MAX 8 long range version or something like that by simply getting smaller length version of max9 and nobody was really interested . Might be stupid idea, might have the point when it comes to production.
 
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vanguard737
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:39 am

I like the warning "DO NOT HUMP" on the rail car...it must be directed at any a.netters that get too close!
Last edited by vanguard737 on Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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georgiaame
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:39 am

"48 windows just like a 707-320!"

And here I thought I was the only OCD person who counted the number of windows on an airplane. Guess there are at least two of us out there. For years, I've mused about posting on Tech Ops about how the 707 could hypothetically be updated here in the new millennium, or if it would actually make sense to do so. 2 engines of course. Supercritical wings. Composite body/wings. 21st century avionics. Knowing in advance the answer would be, no you can't do that, start with a clean sheet, if anyone were interested, which they are not. Well, it looks like we now do have an updated 707. Essentially the same fuselage. Same nose. 2 engines. I doubt my new 707 can do the 5000 NM that my first 707-320 did in 1969, but it will still be fun to see the grandchild of the former King of the Skies flying.
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mzlin
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:24 am

For those of you counting windows, note the 737max10 first fuselage has a larger mid-aft exit door than previously rendered (also larger than in the 737max9 fuselage). This causes there to be the same number of windows aft of the wing exits to the mid-aft exit door (12) as in the 737max9, although there is indeed a slight aft stretch added.

This gets confusing, but the current renders of the 737max10 show a small exit door like on the 737max10, so they also show an additional window. If you count windows in the renderings, you get one more (13 between wing exits and mid-aft exit door) than the 737max9 aft. You can see the wider door + no window in today's actual fuselage takes the same room as the smaller door + new window in the renderings.

737max10 from United (small door + 13 windows)
Image

737max10 physical model from Boeing (small door + 13 windows)
Image

737max9 real life (small door + 12 windows) and 737max10 real life (big door + 12 windows):
Image

This is consistent with reports the mid-aft exit doors were widened by 4 inches in the 737max10: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 0-customer
 
USAirKid
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:16 am

Northpole wrote:
Furthermore those railroad cars carrying the fuselages seems to be a of very standardized type. Correct me if I am wrong.


AFAIK Boeing owns the rail cars that the 737 fuselages ride on. They’re probably related to a standard type, but custom built to have attachment points, etc.

If you look closely at the photos they specifically mention Boring safety rules.
 
dwhonan
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:22 am

USAirKid wrote:
Northpole wrote:
Furthermore those railroad cars carrying the fuselages seems to be a of very standardized type. Correct me if I am wrong.


AFAIK Boeing owns the rail cars that the 737 fuselages ride on. They’re probably related to a standard type, but custom built to have attachment points, etc.

If you look closely at the photos they specifically mention Boring safety rules.


The cars are owned by either BNSF or TTX.
 
mzlin
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:52 am

Here's the source regarding United's internal email mentioning 'body contour' changes to reduce the risk of tail strike. I've always considered it a bit far-fetched that Boeing would go through that much trouble if it already had the telescoping gear: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-438789/
 
AirbusA6
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:40 am

As an aside were previous Boeing narrowbody fuselages also transported by rail? The 707 is a bit taller, but the 727 and 757 fuselage shapes are very similar to the 737
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:13 am

1L and 1R look a whole lot closer to the cockpit on the -10 compared to the -8 and -9. Is this just me or does anyone else notice it? It is especially prevelent in the picture which the 2 are being compared.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:54 pm

cha747 wrote:
Northpole wrote:
cha747 wrote:
Is Boeing still having that problem of people shooting at and hitting the airframes enroute from Wichita to Renton?


Shooting at railwaycars ?


The fuselages are attached to flat bed railroad cars and transported in the open:

https://youtu.be/ErnScsC2lyw


From what I understand, this has been a problem since the classics were still in production. Quality inspections upon arrival in Renton turn up bullet holes in the fuselages pretty regularly. Not a tough fix, but certainly an annoyance.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
DDR
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:20 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Has MCAS been installed yet?


That is not "cute" or funny.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:25 pm

vanguard737 wrote:
I like the warning "DO NOT HUMP" on the rail car...it must be directed at any a.netters that get too close!


Hump yards are how railroads sort cars. You push the train over a hill and disconnect each car as it goes over the top, and goes down a ladder of track work that allows each train to be broken down and sorted into a new train.

Do not hump, is to tell the workers to not run these cars over the hump.
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bgm
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:01 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
vanguard737 wrote:
I like the warning "DO NOT HUMP" on the rail car...it must be directed at any a.netters that get too close!


Hump yards are how railroads sort cars. You push the train over a hill and disconnect each car as it goes over the top, and goes down a ladder of track work that allows each train to be broken down and sorted into a new train.

Do not hump, is to tell the workers to not run these cars over the hump.


Nah, I think it’s a warning to overly horny passers by, especially if their name is Randy. :duck:
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mzlin
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:15 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
1L and 1R look a whole lot closer to the cockpit on the -10 compared to the -8 and -9. Is this just me or does anyone else notice it? It is especially prevelent in the picture which the 2 are being compared.


Oh that's because the photo of the -9 is actually flipped left to right. You are looking at the left side of the -9, that is the boarding side. I had to flip the photo to match.

The 1L door is bigger than the 1R door. There is also an extra window after door 1R before the body join that doesn't exist on the left side.

Sorry for the confusion. I also noticed this left-right difference, but only later.
 
77H
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:48 pm

Northpole wrote:
cha747 wrote:
Northpole wrote:

Shooting at railwaycars ?


The fuselages are attached to flat bed railroad cars and transported in the open:

https://youtu.be/ErnScsC2lyw


Thanks very much for the link - Yes I knew that> but seriously ... are people shooting at the trains and the fuselages passing by from time to time ?Yikes... In such a case I find it irresponsible to transport the fuselages on open railroad cars. Clearly there are double stacked containers on the train with a profile larger( higher) than a covering hood over the fuselages would make... ( for passage under bridges and through tunnels ) Furthermore those railroad cars carrying the fuselages seems to be a of very standardized type. Correct me if I am wrong.


Or maybe just don’t shoot at the fuselage of an unfinished commercial aircraft ? Seems like a novel, yet simple idea. Or here’s any idea! If it is ever found that a pre-production bullet hole was a contributing factor in an incident, say.. like the WN roof peeling back... charge the dipsh!t who fired the shot with 189 counts of attempted murder. That ought to send a strong enough message.

77H
 
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Polot
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:57 pm

77H wrote:
Northpole wrote:
cha747 wrote:

The fuselages are attached to flat bed railroad cars and transported in the open:

https://youtu.be/ErnScsC2lyw


Thanks very much for the link - Yes I knew that> but seriously ... are people shooting at the trains and the fuselages passing by from time to time ?Yikes... In such a case I find it irresponsible to transport the fuselages on open railroad cars. Clearly there are double stacked containers on the train with a profile larger( higher) than a covering hood over the fuselages would make... ( for passage under bridges and through tunnels ) Furthermore those railroad cars carrying the fuselages seems to be a of very standardized type. Correct me if I am wrong.


Or maybe just don’t shoot at the fuselage of an unfinished commercial aircraft ? Seems like a novel, yet simple idea. Or here’s any idea! If it is ever found that a pre-production bullet hole was a contributing factor in an incident, say.. like the WN roof peeling back... charge the dipsh!t who fired the shot with 189 counts of attempted murder. That ought to send a strong enough message.

77H

How do you propose Boeing/the authorities identify and find the specific person who shot at an aircraft, maybe 20+ years before an incident, as it travels over a thousand miles through some pretty isolated areas?
 
LH707330
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:04 pm

Max Q wrote:
caverunner17 wrote:
Prost wrote:
Somewhere there is an overhead picture of a 737 and 707, I believe military versions. The difference in wings is striking. The 707 wings look like they could be made out of sheets of plywood.

Out of curiosity, was the original 707 wing design out of lack of experience from engineers at the time to develop a smaller/lighter wing or was it a limit of available materials / manufacturing process?



Neither


There’s a very good reason for the larger wing on the 707. It is a much heavier aircraft (over 350k gross weight) with four engines that required a larger wing to lift that weight and contain the fuel to allow over a 6000 mile range.


It was quite advanced for its day, significantly more than the wing on its DC8 competitor and had a higher cruise speed as a result

As Max Q says, the wings were pretty advanced for their time. The main reason they're larger than newer ones is that the engines were incredibly thirsty. If they were to make a new plane with the same payload-range as a 707-300B and four newer GTFs, the wing would be a lot smaller (think 757 size) and the MTOW would be lower as well.
 
77H
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Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:53 pm

Polot wrote:
77H wrote:
Northpole wrote:


Thanks very much for the link - Yes I knew that> but seriously ... are people shooting at the trains and the fuselages passing by from time to time ?Yikes... In such a case I find it irresponsible to transport the fuselages on open railroad cars. Clearly there are double stacked containers on the train with a profile larger( higher) than a covering hood over the fuselages would make... ( for passage under bridges and through tunnels ) Furthermore those railroad cars carrying the fuselages seems to be a of very standardized type. Correct me if I am wrong.


Or maybe just don’t shoot at the fuselage of an unfinished commercial aircraft ? Seems like a novel, yet simple idea. Or here’s any idea! If it is ever found that a pre-production bullet hole was a contributing factor in an incident, say.. like the WN roof peeling back... charge the dipsh!t who fired the shot with 189 counts of attempted murder. That ought to send a strong enough message.

77H

How do you propose Boeing/the authorities identify and find the specific person who shot at an aircraft, maybe 20+ years before an incident, as it travels over a thousand miles through some pretty isolated areas?


Imagine a world where said "authorities" could use ballistics to identify the type of gun and caliber bullet used? Then re-trace the route said train went and identify gun owners in the vicinity of the train's route who have guns matching the type and caliber (for those who have registered guns). Think of all the other investigatory applications ballistics could aid in ! ;) :duck:

Oh... and if that's too much, I'd assume that where there is a bullet hole in a fuselage, somewhere in said fuselage exists the bullet that made the hole. Find the bullet, find the exact gun that fired it. As the barrel of each gun leaves distinct markings on an ejected bullet. Then use process of elimination as described above.

Lastly, a lower tech idea would be to put CCTV type cameras on the rail cars transporting the fuselages, one on each corner facing outwards from the train.. Might just catch the fool in the act.

And before we go down the road of, "do you really think the shooter would be dumb enough to have the bullet trace back to them", I'd say, "well, they were dumb enough to shoot at the fuselage of a commercial airliner".

77H
 
DarthLobster
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:40 am

Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:17 pm

77H wrote:
Polot wrote:
77H wrote:

Or maybe just don’t shoot at the fuselage of an unfinished commercial aircraft ? Seems like a novel, yet simple idea. Or here’s any idea! If it is ever found that a pre-production bullet hole was a contributing factor in an incident, say.. like the WN roof peeling back... charge the dipsh!t who fired the shot with 189 counts of attempted murder. That ought to send a strong enough message.

77H

How do you propose Boeing/the authorities identify and find the specific person who shot at an aircraft, maybe 20+ years before an incident, as it travels over a thousand miles through some pretty isolated areas?


Imagine a world where said "authorities" could use ballistics to identify the type of gun and caliber bullet used? Then re-trace the route said train went and identify gun owners in the vicinity of the train's route who have guns matching the type and caliber (for those who have registered guns). Think of all the other investigatory applications ballistics could aid in ! ;) :duck:

Oh... and if that's too much, I'd assume that where there is a bullet hole in a fuselage, somewhere in said fuselage exists the bullet that made the hole. Find the bullet, find the exact gun that fired it. As the barrel of each gun leaves distinct markings on an ejected bullet. Then use process of elimination as described above.

Lastly, a lower tech idea would be to put CCTV type cameras on the rail cars transporting the fuselages, one on each corner facing outwards from the train.. Might just catch the fool in the act.

And before we go down the road of, "do you really think the shooter would be dumb enough to have the bullet trace back to them", I'd say, "well, they were dumb enough to shoot at the fuselage of a commercial airliner".

77H


You don’t know much about any of these topics, do you?
 
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XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:40 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Does Boeing take ownership of the fuselage before, or after the train trip?
Aluminum is relatively easy to repair compared to composites, are there any large composite components shipped this way?


I'm afraid I don't know the specifics on the transfer of ownership, sorry.
As to composite components - almost certainly, but in enclosed cars. The 737 fuselages are the only aircraft components carried in the open.

jchaase wrote:
Why is the 7644 in a serif font? ... Obviously sans-serif is possible, as it's that way under the "first MAX-10" area. Is it a situation of having always done it that way so they've never changed?


The line numbers are almost certainly applied with a set of stencils that were made in that face for no particular reason, just as there's been no particular reason to replace them. The stencil for the special MAX-10 logo, on the other hand, will have been custom-made.

Revelation wrote:
I would suggest we consider the 707 was derived from the KC-135


Both the 707 and the 717-100 were developed from the 367-80, not from each-other.

AirbusA6 wrote:
As an aside were previous Boeing narrowbody fuselages also transported by rail? The 707 is a bit taller, but the 727 and 757 fuselage shapes are very similar to the 737


The 737 is the only complete fuselage Boeing has ever transported by rail. Major assemblies for many other Boeings, including the 747, 757, and 777 have been or still are transported by rail, but in enclosed cars.

77H wrote:
Imagine a world where said "authorities" could use ballistics to identify the type of gun and caliber bullet used? Then re-trace the route said train went and identify gun owners in the vicinity of the train's route who have guns matching the type and caliber (for those who have registered guns). ... Find the bullet, find the exact gun that fired it. As the barrel of each gun leaves distinct markings on an ejected bullet. ... a lower tech idea would be to put CCTV type cameras on the rail cars transporting the fuselages, one on each corner facing outwards from the train.. Might just catch the fool in the act.


It's a nice concept, sure, but not very practical. For a start, depending on the type of round used by the shooter, it's likely the bullet will either pass through the fuselage and therefore be unrecoverable, or if not it will quite probably be severely deformed.

Assuming you do recover a bullet from which a forensic profile can be recovered, you then need a clean specimen bullet fired by the same weapon in order to match them... which you won't have because your pool of suspect weapons is so huge. It's why in criminal investigations this sort of matching is used to link bullets found at a crime scene to a weapon already held in evidence, or to search through striation-example databases to see if a sufficiently-similar pattern has been found in a previous investigation. If you don't have the weapon and/or a clean specimen bullet, or a hit against a weapon previously used to commit crime, then you've got nothing beyond a pool of potential suspects - and even then that pool overlooks the fact that the shooter may live far enough from the train's route to be excluded.

Oh, the other problem is that assembling your suspect pool might be a bit hard - the ATF is legally constrained in a number of magical ways that make doing this sort of thing really quite tough.

As to the CCTV idea - are you volunteering to watch all the recordings?
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2452
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:07 pm

Is Boeing waiting to test the new landing gear on the Max 10 itself? I assumed it would have been tested it on the Max 9 first. To my knowledge, there has been no news about the new Max landing gear since they revealed the mock-up.
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2325
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:14 pm

Prost wrote:
Somewhere there is an overhead picture of a 737 and 707, I believe military versions. The difference in wings is striking. The 707 wings look like they could be made out of sheets of plywood.



Here it is:



Another good comparison:

http://secure.boeingimages.com/archive/BoeingHonors7-SeriesAirplaneFamily-2F3XC54T0WP.html

707/767 comparison:

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
AvFanNJ
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:47 pm

Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:00 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
Is Boeing waiting to test the new landing gear on the Max 10 itself? I assumed it would have been tested it on the Max 9 first. To my knowledge, there has been no news about the new Max landing gear since they revealed the mock-up.

To my knowledge, there was no intent to test the new gear on anything but a MAX 10. The new MLG was specifically intended for only the -10 to match the -9's rotation angle with an added 9.5 inches of clearance on takeoff. Testing it on the 66" shorter -9 would not show the benefit they're aiming for. And while some in here have suggested it would improve short field takeoff performance on shorter MAX variants, I doubt Boeing will port it to the smaller models.
 
deltadart106
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:46 pm

Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:47 am

tomaheath wrote:
It would be nice if UA kept that “ first MAX10” on the side.


Remember when American removed the "DC-10 Luxuryliner" titles after the crashes? Something tells me UA isn't going to want to advertise that the plane is a MAX after all the controversy.
 
Dave05
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:09 pm

Re: First 737MAX10 fuselage arrives for final assembly

Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:25 pm

Any chance of the Max10 getting an ER?

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