ThePointblank
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Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:29 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.5158335

The basics as follows:
- Chinese international student goes to WeChat to find cheap tickets so she could fly to Vancouver and Shanghai from Toronto
- She finds a supposed reseller named "CaptainCooll" who claimed to have access to "Air Canada employee discount" tickets, who in reality was buying the tickets with stolen credit cards
- She then pays "CaptainCooll" $5,800 over the course of a year for 3 flights, which included a number of flights on business class seats, and was able to board the flights without being challenged
- On the fourth flight leaving Toronto for Vancouver, she was denied boarding and told she was on Air Canada's "no fly" list. She was also out of pocket for the return fare and another trip going to Shanghai, for a total of $3,600
- When she confronted the reseller on WeChat online and demanded her money back, he blocked her and then disappeared
- Air Canada demanded $18,683.66 from her for the fraudulent flights she took back in November 2018, and required that she repay Air Canada within 45 days. That timeline has now elapsed
- She is claiming that she is unable to repay Air Canada, and has subsequently hired a lawyer

Can't say I'm surprised. The entire scam does not meet the smell test; why are you buying tickets from someone online in a chatroom for a fraction of their retail value? Of course, when eventually caught, claim ignorance of the entire affair, and plead poverty?
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:35 pm

Well some people literally ARE that gullible... I don't buy it here... nah she was in on it somehow is how my gut feels.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:38 pm

She's an idiot to trust a third party on WeChat named 'captain cool'. She likely knew very well that something was shady. She's owes AC the funds.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:46 pm

I feel sorry for her, but she’s pretty stupid. Besides Mr. Cooll stated they were employee discount prices. She’s presumably not family or a close friend of an AC employee. That’s clearly fraudulent right there.
 
nws2002
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:49 pm

She's dumb and I don't believe AC should provide any sort of reimbursement. However, I don't see how she is responsible to AC for repayment either.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:01 pm

There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:09 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


This happened to me at YVR on CI. In the ten months since I’d bought the ticket, I had to have the card cancelled and a new one issued. That happens. You’d think the airlines would have to make allowances for this.

I had no problem getting to YVR on QX, but CI flagged it. After a lot of stress, they made me fill out some paperwork while the flight was boarding, and I was allowed to board. The credit card company was no help at all when I called them.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:26 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


Odds are she paid this guy in "installments" and was told the tickets wouldn't be issued until the day of departure. It's not uncommon for fraudsters to use stolen cards within a few hours of departure only, hoping they can get the passenger boarded before the anti-fraud measures kick in. It's especially difficult when fraudsters use stolen cards to buy miles through Points.com and then use those miles on an airline, as it adds an extra layer there which takes extra time for anti-fraud measures to kick in.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
chimborazo
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:32 pm

I’ve been on hundreds and hundreds of flights and never been asked to show my credit card. It does say that on many airlines when you book the tickets... but only if the traveller is also the cardholder. It makes no sense
 
YULACYYZ
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:35 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


If you bought your ticket yourself and online, the original form of payment is required at checkin, but if your ticket is issued by a third party IE travel agency and or other websites, the form of payment may differ by a lot. I suspect that this is the case now.

There are lots of problems with certain fare markets. Consolidators are buying block of seats from airlines for resell at deep discount with many restrictions. Many tickets are showing a price, but the passengers invoice is much lower.

It is buyers be aware and unfortunately, buying stolen goods makes you part of the crime. She must have known somehow in regards to comparing fares, and anything that says NOEND (non endorsable), NORFND (no refund), NOCHG (no change), NORRTE (non re-routable), Valid only this carrier, dates shown, is a good indication about their purchases.

Of course we can all fall victims of a crime, and I find that the no fly list is a bit strong. Unless there is more to the story, and that they can somehow link her to the scammer.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:36 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!

I've never showed my credit card to check in (in the US, or even in France). Most check in online or on their app anyway.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:38 pm

YULACYYZ wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


If you bought your ticket yourself and online, the original form of payment is required at checkin, but if your ticket is issued by a third party IE travel agency and or other websites, the form of payment may differ by a lot. I suspect that this is the case now.

There are lots of problems with certain fare markets. Consolidators are buying block of seats from airlines for resell at deep discount with many restrictions. Many tickets are showing a price, but the passengers invoice is much lower.

It is buyers be aware and unfortunately, buying stolen goods makes you part of the crime. She must have known somehow in regards to comparing fares, and anything that says NOEND (non endorsable), NORFND (no refund), NOCHG (no change), NORRTE (non re-routable), Valid only this carrier, dates shown, is a good indication about their purchases.

Of course we can all fall victims of a crime, and I find that the no fly list is a bit strong. Unless there is more to the story, and that they can somehow link her to the scammer.

Not in the US at least. I've booked my own business trips (4 since 1/1), using my CC, checked in online then at the kiosk (using my FF card): never been asked once to show the initial form of payment.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:39 pm

nws2002 wrote:
She's dumb and I don't believe AC should provide any sort of reimbursement. However, I don't see how she is responsible to AC for repayment either.

If the credit cards were stolen, then AC didn't get the payment. So, this is showing as a balance the traveler owes.
Granted AC should have reacted sooner.
 
YULACYYZ
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:47 pm

[/quote]
Not in the US at least. I've booked my own business trips (4 since 1/1), using my CC, checked in online then at the kiosk (using my FF card): never been asked once to show the initial form of payment.[/quote]

If your FF account has no flags on it, and if your miles are mostly accumulated via credit card purchases, you can checkin with it as well.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:48 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!

I've never showed my credit card to check in (in the US, or even in France). Most check in online or on their app anyway.


Same here, all over the world. Most of the time it is just a secretary at the airline that goes onto the website and books a ticket for me, no different from how anybody else would book one. How would I be able to show the card?
 
Bradin
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:03 pm

chimborazo wrote:
I’ve been on hundreds and hundreds of flights and never been asked to show my credit card. It does say that on many airlines when you book the tickets... but only if the traveller is also the cardholder. It makes no sense


It does not make sense, especially those of us who travel for business. Some places of employment like my own has a central booking and we book for our team members.
 
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3rdGen
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:06 pm

Nowadays you can get all the way to gate without having to confront any airline staff. And I believe some airlines are trialing automated boarding machines as well. But for the time being would someone at the gate know to check your credit card?
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:06 pm

YULACYYZ wrote:

Not in the US at least. I've booked my own business trips (4 since 1/1), using my CC, checked in online then at the kiosk (using my FF card): never been asked once to show the initial form of payment.[/quote]

If your FF account has no flags on it, and if your miles are mostly accumulated via credit card purchases, you can checkin with it as well.[/quote]
Obviously hers did not have a flag until that 4th trip.

But, you said the original form of payment was required if your purchased the ticket online; which is false.
 
airboss787
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:07 pm

Where did they get the $18k from? Was that the cost of all tickets or does that include damages?
Star Alliance Gold
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:19 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
YULACYYZ wrote:

Not in the US at least. I've booked my own business trips (4 since 1/1), using my CC, checked in online then at the kiosk (using my FF card): never been asked once to show the initial form of payment.


If your FF account has no flags on it, and if your miles are mostly accumulated via credit card purchases, you can checkin with it as well.[/quote]
Obviously hers did not have a flag until that 4th trip.

But, you said the original form of payment was required if your purchased the ticket online; which is false.[/quote]

No it’s not false. It happened to me boarding CI in YVR about 2 1/2 years ago, as I stated above. I had a ticket purchased through Orbitz, but they asked to see my credit card, which had changed. I almost didn’t think I was going to get on.

Having said that, this has rarely if ever happened anywhere else.
 
rampbro
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:22 pm

It's unfortunate for this person, but if you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. Just buy a normal plane ticket like the rest of us. This person would have had to have willfully ignored the amount of crime that goes on between the West Coast of Canada and Mainland China in order to make this purchase; by providing the demand, she is just as culpable as the person who provided the supply.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:28 pm

I am a member of a BA aficionado's group on Facebook. After reading some of the posts other members put on there, I can now actually believe people are that stupid. Example post: a woman recently complained that BA didn't provide her with an international mobile phone handset when she landed in MIA so that she could call her son to let him know she'd landed. I am not making that up.

People CAN be that stupid.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
YYZYYT
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:48 pm

VSMUT wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!

I've never showed my credit card to check in (in the US, or even in France). Most check in online or on their app anyway.


Same here, all over the world. Most of the time it is just a secretary at the airline that goes onto the website and books a ticket for me, no different from how anybody else would book one. How would I be able to show the card?


Agree, I've booked hundreds of flights, some direct with the airline (either with FF accounts or without), and others through on-line or real travel agencies and Aeroplan. Check in and boarding takes only the Ref # or FF # (don't even need the card, I have my # memorized) and ID which matches the name on the ticket. I haven't been asked to show the original cc, not even once, on any on those flights over the last 20 years, on any airline in Canada, US, Europe or Asia (including at least 100 flights on AC). So, I'm not sure why people expect that AC would routinely ask for the credit card at check in.

As for the OP, can't tell whether this woman is an innocent (but dumb) victim, or in on the scam; though surely she must have wondered why she was entitled to fly on an employee fare?

I doubt that AC will be able to make that invoice stick, though (unless they have proof that she was part of the scam)
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:51 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
YULACYYZ wrote:

Not in the US at least. I've booked my own business trips (4 since 1/1), using my CC, checked in online then at the kiosk (using my FF card): never been asked once to show the initial form of payment.


If your FF account has no flags on it, and if your miles are mostly accumulated via credit card purchases, you can checkin with it as well.

Obviously hers did not have a flag until that 4th trip.

But, you said the original form of payment was required if your purchased the ticket online; which is false.[/quote]

No it’s not false. It happened to me boarding CI in YVR about 2 1/2 years ago, as I stated above. I had a ticket purchased through Orbitz, but they asked to see my credit card, which had changed. I almost didn’t think I was going to get on.

Having said that, this has rarely if ever happened anywhere else.[/quote]
So, being requested to show the original form of payment is the exception, not the rule.
Hence, the statement "If you bought your ticket yourself and online, the original form of payment is required at checkin" is wrong: that statement was as if the requirement was a general rule, it's not.

Maybe it's semantics...
 
santi319
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:57 pm

Darwinism on steroids.
 
tmoney
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:06 pm

Without taking any sides, here's a probable explanation on why it took that long for AC to slap her with the fine.
1/. AC has to run fraud purchases in a given amount of time. And has to verify actual fraudulent purchases to accidental ones.
2/. It needs at least a second offence to flag someone as a repeat offender. (One assumes the fraudster would be using a different credit card number for each of the woman's booking.)
3/. Within this time the woman could still continue flying on AC while AC investigates in the background.
4/. Only when AC was confident that the woman is the particular person who keeps booking on fraudulent cards, they put on on no-fly list.

And yes, if the fraudster put additional steps like buying miles and booking flights like one poster mentioned above it might even take longer to tie a particular person to fraudulent purchases.
Yokes > Side-sticks
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:07 pm

vhtje wrote:
I am a member of a BA aficionado's group on Facebook. After reading some of the posts other members put on there, I can now actually believe people are that stupid. Example post: a woman recently complained that BA didn't provide her with an international mobile phone handset when she landed in MIA so that she could call her son to let him know she'd landed. I am not making that up.

People CAN be that stupid.


Yeah, someone gave COPA a one-star rating and bad review because they were flying to PTY and then connecting to a domestic destination. So they blasted COPA because they wouldn’t just check their luggage through to DAV.

They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

But it’s all COPA’s fault.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:28 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.
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ThePointblank
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:49 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Where did they get the $18k from? Was that the cost of all tickets or does that include damages?

Probably cost of tickets, plus interest. Some of the flights were noted to be business class seats, so that could be easily thousands of dollars just for one ticket, depending on destination (Shanghai or Vancouver).
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:50 pm

AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.

Depends on the country, it can vary. And if you have pre-clearance to the country, it can be even more different.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:51 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Probable only in the United States and a few other countries? In most European countries you just change flights and pick up your bag at your final destination.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:53 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.

Depends on the country, it can vary. And if you have pre-clearance to the country, it can be even more different.

Right, that was my point.
Captain Kevin
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:54 pm

Student searches the web for cheap flights and ends up paying 5,800 USD for just three flights. That doesn't look like a real bargain to me.
 
klakzky123
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:57 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
Student searches the web for cheap flights and ends up paying 5,800 USD for just three flights. That doesn't look like a real bargain to me.


At least a few of those segments were on business class. That definitely sounds like a bargain.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:13 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Probable only in the United States and a few other countries? In most European countries you just change flights and pick up your bag at your final destination.


Every country I’ve ever traveled to is the same. You are telling me you don’t have to go through customs at your first destination when entering a country?

My point was that was apparently Panama’s law and some stupid person blamed the airline and gave them a poor review.
 
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novak500
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:15 pm

For all the flying I've done over the years, I've only had to show the credit card I booked with once for a flight on CX.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:16 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
Student searches the web for cheap flights and ends up paying 5,800 USD for just three flights. That doesn't look like a real bargain to me.


At least a few of those segments were on business class. That definitely sounds like a bargain.

A round trick business class ticket on July 8th, returning July 15th for one adult on AC right now from Toronto to Shanghai is about $5366.

Similar date for a round trip business class seat for a Toronto to Vancouver flight is $3463.

I can easily see AC being out thousands of dollars here for just those two flights alone.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:21 pm

Don't feel bad for her at all, she knew what she was doing. Hopefully some jail time will "enlighten" her.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
VSMUT
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:39 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Probable only in the United States and a few other countries? In most European countries you just change flights and pick up your bag at your final destination.


Every country I’ve ever traveled to is the same. You are telling me you don’t have to go through customs at your first destination when entering a country?


I have never, ever had to do that. Every country I've been to did the customs check at the final airport.
 
BoeingGuy
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:48 pm

VSMUT wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
Probable only in the United States and a few other countries? In most European countries you just change flights and pick up your bag at your final destination.


Every country I’ve ever traveled to is the same. You are telling me you don’t have to go through customs at your first destination when entering a country?


I have never, ever had to do that. Every country I've been to did the customs check at the final airport.


So you fly to Calama, Chile via Santiago you go through customs in Calama?

Funny, I’ve been to something like 40 countries and it’s always been that way.

Yo understand that I’m talking about a domestic connection after an international arrival, right? Not transiting a country.

For example: LAX-AKL, then connect to Dunedin.
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6278
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:01 pm

VSMUT wrote:
I have never, ever had to do that. Every country I've been to did the customs check at the final airport.

Only if the connection point and the final destination are not in the same country.

I know of no country that would allow you entrance to their country. Claim your bags, then fly on a local domestic flight, mixed with locals .... only to promise to talk to customs when you arrive at the final destination.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
OB1504
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:06 pm

Typically, you only have to show the form of payment if there’s suspected fraud. I’ve assisted a passenger who fell victim to a similar scheme (traveling on a ticket purchased with a stolen credit card) and the airline offered the choice of either paying for the ticket in cash or having the case referred to the authorities.
 
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WildcatYXU
Posts: 3071
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:08 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Every country I’ve ever traveled to is the same. You are telling me you don’t have to go through customs at your first destination when entering a country?


I have never, ever had to do that. Every country I've been to did the customs check at the final airport.


So you fly to Calama, Chile via Santiago you go through customs in Calama?

Funny, I’ve been to something like 40 countries and it’s always been that way.

Yo understand that I’m talking about a domestic connection after an international arrival, right? Not transiting a country.

For example: LAX-AKL, then connect to Dunedin.


So you've never been to any EU/Schengen country? You clear immigration where you land first. Your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. You'll only see it at your final destination. There are usually customs officers present at the luggage carousel. When they see a baggage tag without a green line on the side, they can check it - or not.
And now when you arrive to Canada on AC from the USA, Europe and Australia, your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. Just as in the EU.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
ITSTours
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:55 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

I have never, ever had to do that. Every country I've been to did the customs check at the final airport.


So you fly to Calama, Chile via Santiago you go through customs in Calama?

Funny, I’ve been to something like 40 countries and it’s always been that way.

Yo understand that I’m talking about a domestic connection after an international arrival, right? Not transiting a country.

For example: LAX-AKL, then connect to Dunedin.


So you've never been to any EU/Schengen country? You clear immigration where you land first. Your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. You'll only see it at your final destination. There are usually customs officers present at the luggage carousel. When they see a baggage tag without a green line on the side, they can check it - or not.
And now when you arrive to Canada on AC from the USA, Europe and Australia, your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. Just as in the EU.


Really depends on the country and the airport. Or even on the airlines and the routes.

EU/Schengen countries does not require collecting bags and rechecking them.
Many other countries do, like USA or Japan.
In South Korea, ICN-PUS/TAE route is designated specially so you transit at ICN like an international passenger, and the immigration and customs happen in PUS/TAE.
In China PVG, even an international transit passenger have to clear customs and recheck the baggage unless they are transiting with MU or their partners....
 
ITSTours
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:05 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
YULACYYZ wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


If you bought your ticket yourself and online, the original form of payment is required at checkin, but if your ticket is issued by a third party IE travel agency and or other websites, the form of payment may differ by a lot. I suspect that this is the case now.

There are lots of problems with certain fare markets. Consolidators are buying block of seats from airlines for resell at deep discount with many restrictions. Many tickets are showing a price, but the passengers invoice is much lower.

It is buyers be aware and unfortunately, buying stolen goods makes you part of the crime. She must have known somehow in regards to comparing fares, and anything that says NOEND (non endorsable), NORFND (no refund), NOCHG (no change), NORRTE (non re-routable), Valid only this carrier, dates shown, is a good indication about their purchases.

Of course we can all fall victims of a crime, and I find that the no fly list is a bit strong. Unless there is more to the story, and that they can somehow link her to the scammer.

Not in the US at least. I've booked my own business trips (4 since 1/1), using my CC, checked in online then at the kiosk (using my FF card): never been asked once to show the initial form of payment.


Korean Air still requires this, unless the purchaser uses Verified by Visa or Mastercard Securecode.
If they did not use such features, go to the airport and not have the physical credit card, they will be denied check-in. (Or they need to re-pay the amount with the physical credit card they have at the moment.)
 
senatorflyer
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:57 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:09 pm

YULACYYZ wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


If you bought your ticket yourself and online, the original form of payment is required at checkin, but if your ticket is issued by a third party IE travel agency and or other websites, the form of payment may differ by a lot. I suspect that this is the case now.

There are lots of problems with certain fare markets. Consolidators are buying block of seats from airlines for resell at deep discount with many restrictions. Many tickets are showing a price, but the passengers invoice is much lower.

It is buyers be aware and unfortunately, buying stolen goods makes you part of the crime. She must have known somehow in regards to comparing fares, and anything that says NOEND (non endorsable), NORFND (no refund), NOCHG (no change), NORRTE (non re-routable), Valid only this carrier, dates shown, is a good indication about their purchases.

Of course we can all fall victims of a crime, and I find that the no fly list is a bit strong. Unless there is more to the story, and that they can somehow link her to the scammer.


At least with European carriers you do not have to show a credit card at checkin for 99% of all flights. Out of my own experience I actually only had to do it once in well over 800 flights.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1731
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:16 pm

Woman would be stupid if she paid AC anything. AC should write it off to bad debt as the cost of doing business.
 
rampbro
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:30 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

I have never, ever had to do that. Every country I've been to did the customs check at the final airport.


So you fly to Calama, Chile via Santiago you go through customs in Calama?

Funny, I’ve been to something like 40 countries and it’s always been that way.

Yo understand that I’m talking about a domestic connection after an international arrival, right? Not transiting a country.

For example: LAX-AKL, then connect to Dunedin.


So you've never been to any EU/Schengen country? You clear immigration where you land first. Your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. You'll only see it at your final destination. There are usually customs officers present at the luggage carousel. When they see a baggage tag without a green line on the side, they can check it - or not.
And now when you arrive to Canada on AC from the USA, Europe and Australia, your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. Just as in the EU.


Depends which airport you fly into, and which terminal and the state of construction it is in. Have had variable experiences with this at YYC twice in the past quarter alone.
 
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zeke
Posts: 13836
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:44 pm

longhauler wrote:
I know of no country that would allow you entrance to their country. Claim your bags, then fly on a local domestic flight, mixed with locals .... only to promise to talk to customs when you arrive at the final destination.


In Thailand, fly into BKK on TG and transit a selected domestic locations on TG you will go through customs at the destination, unlikely to talk to customs, just immigration.

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Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8364
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:48 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Probable only in the United States and a few other countries? In most European countries you just change flights and pick up your bag at your final destination.


Every country I’ve ever traveled to is the same. You are telling me you don’t have to go through customs at your first destination when entering a country?

My point was that was apparently Panama’s law and some stupid person blamed the airline and gave them a poor review.


When you travel to the EU and your luggage is booked through, you collect your luggage at your destination and go through customs there.. It does not change anything if you go from JFK via CDG or AMS to HAM (different country), or for example from JFK via FRA or MUC to HAM (same country). Each time you collect your luggage in HAM and go through customs there. You go through immigration in the first destination in a Schengen country, That would be CDG, AMS, FRA or MUC, but not HAM in this cases.

It seems you have never traveled to a country in the EU.

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