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LatinAirliner
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Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:48 am

Well, I was not able to find this topic, want to bring it in here, yesterday Avianca ended operations of their Embraer 190 fleet:

https://www.transponder1200.com/adios-v ... raer-e190/
(In spanish)

They say the airplanes are being grounded, but, do they have a new operator now? Are there going somewhere? Out of the 10 they had, two of them are operating in AeroMexico, and the others?
LatinAirliner - Nickpo
 
solracfunk14
Posts: 83
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:14 pm

LatinAirliner wrote:
Well, I was not able to find this topic, want to bring it in here, yesterday Avianca ended operations of their Embraer 190 fleet:

https://www.transponder1200.com/adios-v ... raer-e190/
(In spanish)

They say the airplanes are being grounded, but, do they have a new operator now? Are there going somewhere? Out of the 10 they had, two of them are operating in AeroMexico, and the others?



No operators but they are active looking for new ones, but in the meantime will be hard: Azul is going hard on the fleet renewal ahead of the first E2 delivery for September, have plenty of E190/195 on the market, even few ones are being scrapped due the lack of potential buyers
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:49 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
LatinAirliner wrote:
Well, I was not able to find this topic, want to bring it in here, yesterday Avianca ended operations of their Embraer 190 fleet:

https://www.transponder1200.com/adios-v ... raer-e190/
(In spanish)

They say the airplanes are being grounded, but, do they have a new operator now? Are there going somewhere? Out of the 10 they had, two of them are operating in AeroMexico, and the others?



No operators but they are active looking for new ones, but in the meantime will be hard: Azul is going hard on the fleet renewal ahead of the first E2 delivery for September, have plenty of E190/195 on the market, even few ones are being scrapped due the lack of potential buyers

We also have AC selling and soon JetBlue. AA also put 20 on the market too.

In just a few years KLM will exchange E1-190 for E2-190.

It is a buyers market. Some of that is how GE prices CF-34-10 parts/maintenance.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:27 pm

lightsaber wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
LatinAirliner wrote:
Well, I was not able to find this topic, want to bring it in here, yesterday Avianca ended operations of their Embraer 190 fleet:

https://www.transponder1200.com/adios-v ... raer-e190/
(In spanish)

They say the airplanes are being grounded, but, do they have a new operator now? Are there going somewhere? Out of the 10 they had, two of them are operating in AeroMexico, and the others?



No operators but they are active looking for new ones, but in the meantime will be hard: Azul is going hard on the fleet renewal ahead of the first E2 delivery for September, have plenty of E190/195 on the market, even few ones are being scrapped due the lack of potential buyers

We also have AC selling and soon JetBlue. AA also put 20 on the market too.

In just a few years KLM will exchange E1-190 for E2-190.

It is a buyers market. Some of that is how GE prices CF-34-10 parts/maintenance.

Lightsaber


The withdrawal of the E190 by Avianca has to do with the financial situation of the company and its intended rationalization of the fleet and not with the operation of the airplane itself.
During the 10-year E190 operation at Avianca (TACA), they allowed links of lower demand markets in the Central American region from San Salvador.

It turned out to be a kind of "mantra" critical to the E190 / E195 family's operational qualities, including glitchs of already-solved software.

The first E190 was delivered to JetBlue on December 12, 2005 and still in operation.
To date, 770 aircraft have been produced and delivered, of which 707 or 92% are still in operation.
It should also be remembered that the latter was delivered in May of this year to HOP, a subsidiary of Air France.

As for those operated by KLM, which has the largest fleet of E-Jets in Europe with 49 aircraft, there is no intention of replacing them with the re-ordering of 35 E195-E2 aircraft, even though these will not be homolagos for the LCY operation, one of the main destinations of the subsidiary KLM CityHooper.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:04 pm

This would have actually been a better plane than the A318, and these frames are owned by Avianca. Were lessors not interested in these frames?
 
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zululima
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:24 pm

Are we talking Avianca proper (Colombia) or the whole group? I was doing dummy bookings to SAL and GUA for December a few hours ago and the E190 was shown on most flights.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:43 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:


No operators but they are active looking for new ones, but in the meantime will be hard: Azul is going hard on the fleet renewal ahead of the first E2 delivery for September, have plenty of E190/195 on the market, even few ones are being scrapped due the lack of potential buyers

We also have AC selling and soon JetBlue. AA also put 20 on the market too.

In just a few years KLM will exchange E1-190 for E2-190.

It is a buyers market. Some of that is how GE prices CF-34-10 parts/maintenance.

Lightsaber


The withdrawal of the E190 by Avianca has to do with the financial situation of the company and its intended rationalization of the fleet and not with the operation of the airplane itself.
During the 10-year E190 operation at Avianca (TACA), they allowed links of lower demand markets in the Central American region from San Salvador.

It turned out to be a kind of "mantra" critical to the E190 / E195 family's operational qualities, including glitchs of already-solved software.

The first E190 was delivered to JetBlue on December 12, 2005 and still in operation.
To date, 770 aircraft have been produced and delivered, of which 707 or 92% are still in operation.
It should also be remembered that the latter was delivered in May of this year to HOP, a subsidiary of Air France.

As for those operated by KLM, which has the largest fleet of E-Jets in Europe with 49 aircraft, there is no intention of replacing them with the re-ordering of 35 E195-E2 aircraft, even though these will not be homolagos for the LCY operation, one of the main destinations of the subsidiary KLM CityHooper.

Since you replied to me, I just listed other opperators recently disposing of the type.

It is a buyers market for used E-190. Whom is buying used E-190 in 2019?

I used future tense on some airlines for a reason. For example JetBlue will first try to sell owned E-190 and then return to leasing companies those not owned by JetBlue. After those first have their wingspars fixed.

For a 24 year old aircraft, having 92% opperating is good. But we are in a period of elevated fuel prices as well as pilot costs. If you know if the fates of the AA and AC E-190 that were retired, please share.

If we look at the values thread, the E-190 is doing ok:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1422705

Low value of $11.5 million, high of $19.5 (new).
However, unless buyers are found for all the AA, AC, and soon other aircraft, the resale market will take a hit.

The questions raised was aren't there buyers? I believe it is a buyers market for E-190 today. But not for E1-175.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
dcajet
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:38 am

zululima wrote:
Are we talking Avianca proper (Colombia) or the whole group? I was doing dummy bookings to SAL and GUA for December a few hours ago and the E190 was shown on most flights.


The E190s never operated for Avianca Colombia. They operated for Avianca Peru and the ex TACAs: Avianca Costa Rica, El Salvador and Guatemala. All these airlines are part of Avianca Holdings (AVH). They are gone for good from the AVH fleet; surely some of the schedules may not have been updated yet.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
panam330
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:05 am

lightsaber wrote:
For a 24 year old aircraft, having 92% opperating is good.

How about a 14 year old one? :mrgreen:
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:53 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
This would have actually been a better plane than the A318, and these frames are owned by Avianca. Were lessors not interested in these frames?


You mean interested in the A318? If so, one word: engines! Was a mess to deal with it (former O6 employee here).

Yes it's better than A318 in most situations but just now I'm having full contact with the E-Jets, and looks like besides being a "newer" plane, the E190/195 performance on hot & high it's not so good. AVH use the A318 a lot on high altitude cities to get more payload, as well O6 used to do in hot cities with short runways for long flights (JDO-GRU flight it's the best example).
 
LatinAirliner
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:00 am

solracfunk14 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
This would have actually been a better plane than the A318, and these frames are owned by Avianca. Were lessors not interested in these frames?


You mean interested in the A318? If so, one word: engines! Was a mess to deal with it (former O6 employee here).

Yes it's better than A318 in most situations but just now I'm having full contact with the E-Jets, and looks like besides being a "newer" plane, the E190/195 performance on hot & high it's not so good. AVH use the A318 a lot on high altitude cities to get more payload, as well O6 used to do in hot cities with short runways for long flights (JDO-GRU flight it's the best example).


You are right!

And too add, the A318 leasing cost is very low compared to the E190, without also including that for the E90 you needed a different crew, different training, different everything basically. With the A318 you just have the same pilots for the A319, 320, etc.
LatinAirliner - Nickpo
 
VSMUT
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:54 am

lightsaber wrote:
Whom is buying used E-190 in 2019?r


For 2019 and 2018:
WDL Aviation
LGW
BA Cityflyer
Aeromexico
Helvetic
South African Airlink
Ikar
Hunnu Air
Stobart Air
Gainjet Ireland
Cobham Aviation
Urumqi Air
Air X charter

And if we include 2017:
Portugalia
GX Airlines
Georgian Airways
TUI
Arkia

As noted in the dedicated topic, it is far from given that KLM is phasing out the E190 any time soon. They could end up as anything from 737-700 replacements or E190 replacements to simply being for expansion.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:33 pm

VSMUT wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Whom is buying used E-190 in 2019?r


For 2019 and 2018:
WDL Aviation
LGW
BA Cityflyer
Aeromexico
Helvetic
South African Airlink
Ikar
Hunnu Air
Stobart Air
Gainjet Ireland
Cobham Aviation
Urumqi Air
Air X charter

And if we include 2017:
Portugalia
GX Airlines
Georgian Airways
TUI
Arkia

As noted in the dedicated topic, it is far from given that KLM is phasing out the E190 any time soon. They could end up as anything from 737-700 replacements or E190 replacements to simply being for expansion.


Aeromexico is leasing in additional Embraer 190s, but those with Stobart Air came primarily as part of the acquisition of Flybe, where E195s scheduled to be returned to Stobart were simply transferred to Stobart.

As for AIR X, that Embraer 190 acquired was a VIP frame (Embraer Lineage). That said, why did the Embraer 190/195 never become popular in China?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:58 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
but those with Stobart Air came primarily as part of the acquisition of Flybe, where E195s scheduled to be returned to Stobart were simply transferred to Stobart.


Stobart received a pair of ex-Virgin Australia E190s in November and February.


aemoreira1981 wrote:
That said, why did the Embraer 190/195 never become popular in China?


Because regional jets in general aren't popular over there.

Airfleets.net lists:
Exactly 100 E-jets in Chinese service, almost all E190s with a few E195s in between. No E170/175.
5 E135/E145
78 CRJs of all variants, but 18 of these are in military service
13 ARJ-21
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8014
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:51 pm

VSMUT wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Whom is buying used E-190 in 2019?r


For 2019 and 2018:
WDL Aviation
LGW
BA Cityflyer
Aeromexico
Helvetic
South African Airlink
Ikar
Hunnu Air
Stobart Air
Gainjet Ireland
Cobham Aviation
Urumqi Air
Air X charter

And if we include 2017:
Portugalia
GX Airlines
Georgian Airways
TUI
Arkia

As noted in the dedicated topic, it is far from given that KLM is phasing out the E190 any time soon. They could end up as anything from 737-700 replacements or E190 replacements to simply being for expansion.


I stopped at Gainjet - you had proven lightsaber's point. Other than Aeromexico Connect those are all small operators of E190s (many fewer than ten copies), nowhere near big enough to make a market in parts and service. The secondary market for E190s is thin, thin, thin.
 
GreenLakeGuy
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Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:58 am

Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:13 pm

My flight from DFW to SAL in December on the E190 still shows as active, but I'm sure that in the very near future I'll be getting a notification of an equipment change if not a schedule change. Certainly, December is still a ways off.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:31 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
I stopped at Gainjet - you had proven lightsaber's point. Other than Aeromexico Connect those are all small operators of E190s (many fewer than ten copies), nowhere near big enough to make a market in parts and service. The secondary market for E190s is thin, thin, thin.


The market in parts and service are made for 1.502 E170/75/90/95 produced so far and operating worldwide, including the second (third, fourth) hands ...
 
solracfunk14
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Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:04 am

LatinAirliner wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
This would have actually been a better plane than the A318, and these frames are owned by Avianca. Were lessors not interested in these frames?


You mean interested in the A318? If so, one word: engines! Was a mess to deal with it (former O6 employee here).

Yes it's better than A318 in most situations but just now I'm having full contact with the E-Jets, and looks like besides being a "newer" plane, the E190/195 performance on hot & high it's not so good. AVH use the A318 a lot on high altitude cities to get more payload, as well O6 used to do in hot cities with short runways for long flights (JDO-GRU flight it's the best example).


You are right!

And too add, the A318 leasing cost is very low compared to the E190, without also including that for the E90 you needed a different crew, different training, different everything basically. With the A318 you just have the same pilots for the A319, 320, etc.


Exactly! And you can run the A318 with the same amount of cabin crew of the E190/195: 3 flight attendants (at least in Brazil).
 
solracfunk14
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:10 am

Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:18 am

Just for the note, and corroborating what me and other people talked: LOT just took delivery of two ERJ190s, serials 19000413 and 19000084, both on lease.

Former Azul plane 413 8years old ex-PR-AYR (now SP-LNN) and 084 11years old former flybe/anadolujet/borajet/saratov airlines (now SP-LNO).

Many of Azul E-Jets went to LOT, but few ones are stocked or scraped.

So LOT can choose widely where they pickup the E-Jets. So no easy life amigos.
 
artflyer
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Last flight of the Avianca's E190

Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:12 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
Just for the note, and corroborating what me and other people talked: LOT just took delivery of two ERJ190s, serials 19000413 and 19000084, both on lease.

Former Azul plane 413 8years old ex-PR-AYR (now SP-LNN) and 084 11years old former flybe/anadolujet/borajet/saratov airlines (now SP-LNO).

Many of Azul E-Jets went to LOT, but few ones are stocked or scraped.

So LOT can choose widely where they pickup the E-Jets. So no easy life amigos.


Just to be precise: these two taken by LOT are E195 and more are coming as a replacement for MAX.

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