LondonXtreme
Topic Author
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:53 pm

Brazil dropped the visa requirement for US citizen in order to boost tourism.

Will we see more flights between US and Brazil? or any of the followings happening?

LATAM launch nonstop service from GRU to LAX, SFO, LAS?
Delta resume GRU flight from DTW and adding MSP-GRU or LAX-GRU?
AA add more destinations in Brazil and launching new services to GIG from DFW and LAX?
UA resume GIG service from EWR and IAD, also introduce new nonstop to GRU from SFO?
Will B6 begin service to Brazil after receiving A321LR?
 
alfa164
Posts: 2958
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:00 pm

I don't think dropping the visa requirement will fuel a sudden surge of demand; airlines have generally been reducing - rather than expanding - flight options, and the incremental increase in tourism that may follow will more likely result in a slow-down in reductions, rather than any substantial increases.

Until 1) the Brazilian economy stabilizes, and business travel recovers, and 2) tourists view Brazil as a safer country than most - having read scary media reports - do now, the current capacity should be able to happily satisfy U.S.A. - Brazil traffic.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
dcajet
Posts: 4016
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:22 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
Brazil dropped the visa requirement for US citizen in order to boost tourism.

Will we see more flights between US and Brazil? or any of the followings happening?

LATAM launch nonstop service from GRU to LAX, SFO, LAS?
Delta resume GRU flight from DTW and adding MSP-GRU or LAX-GRU?
AA add more destinations in Brazil and launching new services to GIG from DFW and LAX?
UA resume GIG service from EWR and IAD, also introduce new nonstop to GRU from SFO?
Will B6 begin service to Brazil after receiving A321LR?


The quick answer to your question is no. Until Brazil tackles the safety & violence problem it currently has, no amount of visa dropping will make the tourism needle move in any significant way. Besides, Americans have the Caribbean, Mexico and Hawaii closer to them - with world class resorts and not requiring an 8-10 hour flight in most cases.

That said, the A321XLR will certainly be a game changer for routes that have been tried and were not successful with the 767. But that is still a few years down the road.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
LondonXtreme
Topic Author
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:30 pm

dcajet wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Brazil dropped the visa requirement for US citizen in order to boost tourism.

Will we see more flights between US and Brazil? or any of the followings happening?

LATAM launch nonstop service from GRU to LAX, SFO, LAS?
Delta resume GRU flight from DTW and adding MSP-GRU or LAX-GRU?
AA add more destinations in Brazil and launching new services to GIG from DFW and LAX?
UA resume GIG service from EWR and IAD, also introduce new nonstop to GRU from SFO?
Will B6 begin service to Brazil after receiving A321LR?


The quick answer to your question is no. Until Brazil tackles the safety & violence problem it currently has, no amount of visa dropping will make the tourism needle move in any significant way. Besides, Americans have the Caribbean, Mexico and Hawaii closer to them - with world class resorts and not requiring an 8-10 hour flight in most cases.

That said, the A321XLR will certainly be a game changer for routes that have been tried and were not successful with the 767. But that is still a few years down the road.

I agree. In short term we might not see a significant change. One of the reason I figure out is that the airfare to Brazil and other South American destinations from US is always high even in low season. If compare with the fare to Europe and Asia, even some places like Australia and New Zealand which requires ultra long haul flight. Maybe the market is dominated by US3 and LATAM and lack of new players.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25691
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:35 pm

No.

As Brazil traffic keeps up I suspect AA will renter Belo Horizonte, maybe Porto Allegra and Recife, but that’s all Brazil originating.

There will be no sudden rush of Americans to visit a city like Rio, which deservedly has a reputation for being dangerous.
a.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5575
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:39 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
Delta resume GRU flight from DTW ...


That was an auto industry flight. Look at the manufacturing sites in Brazil of GM, Ford, and FCA, and of the supply base to North American factories. The change in Brazil's visa requirements doesn't matter a bit to this demand.
 
BBDFlyer
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:43 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
I agree. In short term we might not see a significant change. One of the reason I figure out is that the airfare to Brazil and other South American destinations from US is always high even in low season. If compare with the fare to Europe and Asia, even some places like Australia and New Zealand which requires ultra long haul flight. Maybe the market is dominated by US3 and LATAM and lack of new players.

Brazil fares are expensive due to the north-south flying, which reduces aircraft utilization. With few exceptions, it’s a red eye going each way, requiring the aircraft to sit at the outstation for the whole day not being utilized.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2109
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:57 pm

What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.
 
BenflysDTW
Posts: 274
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:07 pm

DL DTW-GRU was actually routed as MSP-DTW-GRU as DL 53. There was an aircraft change of course. I remember looking at seat maps and seeing that the flights were full, at least the ones that I saw. But Delta has better things to do with an A330 versus leaving it on the ground all day at GRU. I was surprised that is was daily for a while. Oh well.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:07 pm

BBDFlyer wrote:
Brazil fares are expensive due to the north-south flying, which reduces aircraft utilization. With few exceptions, it’s a red eye going each way, requiring the aircraft to sit at the outstation for the whole day not being utilized.


Why does north-south flying reduce utilization?
 
BenflysDTW
Posts: 274
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:09 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


I agree. From the people I’ve talked too, they are very narrow minded and don’t look at the bigger picture because they don’t have the experience. But at the end of the day it’s up to them.
 
LondonXtreme
Topic Author
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:19 pm

BenflysDTW wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


I agree. From the people I’ve talked too, they are very narrow minded and don’t look at the bigger picture because they don’t have the experience. But at the end of the day it’s up to them.

Except for those people living in some advanced areas like the east coast or west coast. For some Americans living 2nd or 3rd tier cities and rural areas, they are very narrow minded. Quite a lot of them don't even have a passport. How can you expect them to know the big picture.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:28 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
BenflysDTW wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


I agree. From the people I’ve talked too, they are very narrow minded and don’t look at the bigger picture because they don’t have the experience. But at the end of the day it’s up to them.

Except for those people living in some advanced areas like the east coast or west coast. For some Americans living 2nd or 3rd tier cities and rural areas, they are very narrow minded. Quite a lot of them don't even have a passport. How can you expect them to know the big picture.


Americans obviously don’t travel internationally as much as domestically. That’s what happens when your second largest state is 3 times the size of the United Kingdom, and the length of the U.S. from west to east coast is around the length of LON-NYC.

Statistically, about 36% of Americans have passports.
 
BBDFlyer
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:33 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
BBDFlyer wrote:
Brazil fares are expensive due to the north-south flying, which reduces aircraft utilization. With few exceptions, it’s a red eye going each way, requiring the aircraft to sit at the outstation for the whole day not being utilized.


Why does north-south flying reduce utilization?

For carriers that rely on connecting traffic, a flight departing the US for S.America departs in the evening to capture connections. It does a redeye and arrives in the morning. If it turns around immediately and returns to the US, it arrives in the US at night, and the passengers cannot connect. So the flight spends all day in Brazil, and then departs in the evening and arrives in the morning in the US, so that passengers can make connections. The plane gets close to 12 hours of non-use sitting in places such as Brazil, Chile, Argentina, etc. American takes advantage of this down time to get maintenance done if they can. But generally speaking, this downtime is lost utilization.

In contrast, a US-Europe flight is quite different. Flights depart the US in the late afternoon through the evening and arrive in the Europe the next day. The flights turn around quickly and depart in the morning or early afternoon and arrive in the US early afternoon through early evening, allowing passengers to catch connections. This also allows the plane to quickly turn around and go back to Europe. The US-Asia schedules are similar, departing the US mid day and arriving in Asia, turning around and going back to the US on a redeye and arriving in the morning, and turning around and going back to Asia or going to Europe. It reduces the downtime.
 
sagechan
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:36 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
BBDFlyer wrote:
Brazil fares are expensive due to the north-south flying, which reduces aircraft utilization. With few exceptions, it’s a red eye going each way, requiring the aircraft to sit at the outstation for the whole day not being utilized.


Why does north-south flying reduce utilization?


No or little time zone change and demand focused in evenings, so flight timings don't match up to do a quick turn. Plane leaves evening lands morning then has to sit and wait to leave again on the evening. I know AA, at least, does some work on the birds while they wait.
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA
 
dcajet
Posts: 4016
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:44 pm

For the ones on here that think that the American (and other nationalities) perception of violence in Brazil is somehow made up:

Cities with the highest homicide rates in Latin America and the Caribbean in 2018 (in number of homicides per 100,000 inhabitants)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971 ... bean-city/

Hint: 4 of the top 10 are in Brazil
Last edited by dcajet on Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Mboyle1988
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:38 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:45 pm

BBDFlyer wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
BBDFlyer wrote:
Brazil fares are expensive due to the north-south flying, which reduces aircraft utilization. With few exceptions, it’s a red eye going each way, requiring the aircraft to sit at the outstation for the whole day not being utilized.


Why does north-south flying reduce utilization?

For carriers that rely on connecting traffic, a flight departing the US for S.America departs in the evening to capture connections. It does a redeye and arrives in the morning. If it turns around immediately and returns to the US, it arrives in the US at night, and the passengers cannot connect. So the flight spends all day in Brazil, and then departs in the evening and arrives in the morning in the US, so that passengers can make connections. The plane gets close to 12 hours of non-use sitting in places such as Brazil, Chile, Argentina, etc. American takes advantage of this down time to get maintenance done if they can. But generally speaking, this downtime is lost utilization.

In contrast, a US-Europe flight is quite different. Flights depart the US in the late afternoon through the evening and arrive in the Europe the next day. The flights turn around quickly and depart in the morning or early afternoon and arrive in the US early afternoon through early evening, allowing passengers to catch connections. This also allows the plane to quickly turn around and go back to Europe. The US-Asia schedules are similar, departing the US mid day and arriving in Asia, turning around and going back to the US on a redeye and arriving in the morning, and turning around and going back to Asia or going to Europe. It reduces the downtime.


GRU-MIA is 8:30 flight time. I believe there’s a two hour time difference. You could depart MIA at 8pm, arrive GRU 7:00AM. Depart GRU 8:30AM arrive MIA 3:00P. Could still handle connections.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3512
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:59 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


I’ve traveled there on business many times and been warned by locals to avoid lots of areas. Four colleagues have been threatened at gun or knife point and robbed. One female colleague was aggressively approached and followed into the elevator, security intervened. Another Brazilian colleague finally had enough of threats and felt even an armored car wasn’t enough, moved to Orlando, FL. I’d say, like many other places in and out of the US, Brazil can be quite dangerous. Look at the murder rate.

GF
 
B747forever
Posts: 13770
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:01 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


Having been to Brazil twice it is fine to visit as long as you know what areas to avoid and generally being careful. But to say that there is no truth to the reputation Brazil has when it comes to crime is a blatant lie.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12396
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:18 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Plenty.

And it's not just about knowing where "the places to avoid" are.
Hell, I and my companions were robbed in GIG, and it was right at the top of the Escadaria Selaron headed toward downtown, and in broad daylight.

Then shortly after that, was that incident on Ipanema where dozens of teens stormed the beach outta nowhere, started hitting males and cops on the head with bricks, and robbing/assaulting them while they stumbled around from that injury. After they ran out of bricks, they just started swarming and attacking anyone dressed like a tourist. Again, broad daylight.

If we had stayed just a few more days, we would've been caught up right there in it, because that's where we spent a bunch of our time. Plenty of people got that incident on YouTube. You can see it in the following clip starting at 6:15

https://youtu.be/We16NGscR5M?t=375



.....does any of this put me off of Brazil? No.
But to pretend that there's no increased element of tourist danger, relative to plenty of other similar destinations, is to be in complete and utter denial of reality.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Thibault973
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:27 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


Good for you.

I'm not American, grew up in Brasil (Fortaleza, Natal and Rio de Janeiro) and still visit all tree at least once a year: Brasil is dangerous point blank period. I have been mugged multiple times (including at the beach, in the bus, in front of my house) and about everybody I know have been at some point, including my mom and several friends at gunpoint. It's actually the reason was I moved out of RJ, I just couldnt stand feeling unsafe at all times. Brasil is an amazing country with amazing people crippled by social inequities and violence.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12396
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:51 pm

Thibault973 wrote:
I just couldnt stand feeling unsafe at all times.

Totally understand.

And if people are getting THIS brazen, to do it in front of a news crew, then it's worse than I thought. :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl_1rQ4JR6c
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
VC10er
Posts: 4066
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:08 pm

dcajet wrote:
For the ones on here that think that the American (and other nationalities) perception of violence in Brazil is somehow made up:

Cities with the highest homicide rates in Latin America and the Caribbean in 2018 (in number of homicides per 100,000 inhabitants)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971 ... bean-city/

Hint: 4 of the top 10 are in Brazil


Yes, Brazil has some of the most violent “patches” on Earth. I lived there 18 years, Rio specifically and not ONCE had a problem.. YES! the violence and murders must stop- on the other hand people who don’t go to Rio are missing out on one of the most magnificent places on Earth.
Rio is ENORMOUS, and for the most part plenty safe enough should you limit yourself to the best Rio has to offer. Zona Sul (basically Sugarloaf to the Two Brothers mountains and lagoon, Paraty, FloriBarra and Leme, and downtown during the day. Rio doesn’t only have the world’s most spectacular beaches but also culture (the arts). It is not famous for nothing, Brazilian’s are the nicest people and by far the most beautiful people. I would not think twice about going out by myself at 2am to get more stuff for a party.
However I would absolutely NOT do the same on western sprawl.
There are secondary cities (on this list) that are bad too. But Brazil is the exact same size as the 48 United States. The very dangerous places are in “patches” and easy to avoid. Deaths are mostly between warring drug leaders.

But to skip Brazil is in the top 10 craziest things I’ve ever read. Brazil ha the world’s longest “usable” beach (about 7,000 miles of spectacular beaches) FloIanopolis, Angra dos Reis, or deep into the Amazon, the Pantal, Ceara, Fernando de Noronho, Trancoso, Igacu falls and about 1000 other places are safe and among the most wonderful and awe inspiring beautiful places on Earth.

It’s also very easy to get to even today, and once there, finding the most beautiful pousadas is easy. Clearly and undeniably Brazil has terrible violence problems. And it’s heartbreaking because Brazil could have been a fully developed country...takes a lot of reading to understand why. But so much of what goes on in this world is sickening. But a well planned trip to Brazil is something magical!

If there is a reason not to go: it’s their new President!
Last edited by VC10er on Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
DCA350
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:10 pm

Is it possible that Norwegian could gain traffic rights between Brazil and the US? As I stated in the Argentina thread there is a huge market for cheaper fares. While US Brazil is a little cheaper than Argentina the fares still often hover around $1k in economy, Azul is barely cheaper than AA or Delta. $500 fares would greatly stimulate the Market even though Brazil is admittedly more dangerous than the typical America would prefer.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2798
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:13 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
Brazil dropped the visa requirement for US citizen in order to boost tourism.

Will we see more flights between US and Brazil? or any of the followings happening?
IMHO:

LATAM launch nonstop service from GRU to LAX, SFO, LAS?
LATAM being OneWorld would only probably make sense to fly to AA hubs or LAS which might have a (seasonal) P2P demand from Brazil and because the time difference between GRU and the U.S. West Coast, west-bound could be daytime.
Delta resume GRU flight from DTW and adding MSP-GRU or LAX-GRU?
Most likely DL could offer day-time GRU-ATL and ATL-GRU a couple of days per week in high season to allow connections @ ATL. Other than that DTW-GRU or others highly unlikely.

AA add more destinations in Brazil and launching new services to GIG from DFW and LAX?
From MIA yes. And for the most those Brazilian cities could support day-time Brazil-MIA fights if arrivals are mid/late afternoon or even early evening.
DFW-GIG, if there's some oil-related traffic demand from DFW (oil industry's big in Texas but more focused in Houston). If that'd be the target, that route must be red-eyes both ways, perhaps thrice weekly to start.
UA resume GIG service from EWR and IAD, also introduce new nonstop to GRU from SFO?
UA EWR-GIG would make sense, even if thrice weekly red-eyes both ways seasonal. Best schedule might be with very late EWR departure (midnight or so) and very early EWR arrival (before 0500).
Will B6 begin service to Brazil after receiving A321LR?
BEL, CGB, FOR or BSB from FLL/MCO?
Other than those, BEL or even FOR from JFK/BOS may be within range but the market might not be there at least for BEL, year-around.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4066
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:17 pm

VC10er wrote:
dcajet wrote:
For the ones on here that think that the American (and other nationalities) perception of violence in Brazil is somehow made up:

Cities with the highest homicide rates in Latin America and the Caribbean in 2018 (in number of homicides per 100,000 inhabitants)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/971 ... bean-city/

Hint: 4 of the top 10 are in Brazil


Yes, Brazil has some of the most violent “patches” on Earth. I lived there 18 years, Rio specifically- never ONCE was I mugged (and it is mostly mugging). Yes, the violence and murders must stop- but that won’t happen until social economic problems are solved, and that’s generations away. On the other hand people who don’t go to Rio are missing out on one of the most magnificent places on Earth.
Rio is ENORMOUS, and for the most part plenty safe enough should you limit yourself to the best Rio has to offer. Zona Sul (basically Sugarloaf to the Two Brothers mountains and lagoon, Paraty, FloriBarra and Leme, and downtown during the day. Rio doesn’t only have the world’s most spectacular beaches but also culture (the arts). It is not famous for nothing, Brazilian’s are the nicest people and by far the most beautiful people. I would not think twice about going out by myself at 2am to get more stuff for a party.
However I would absolutely NOT do the same on western sprawl.
There are secondary cities (on this list) that are bad too. But Brazil is the exact same size as the 48 United States. The very dangerous places are in “patches” and easy to avoid. Deaths are mostly between warring drug leaders.

But to skip Brazil is in the top 10 craziest things I’ve ever read. Brazil ha the world’s longest “usable” beach (about 7,000 miles of spectacular beaches) FloIanopolis, Angra dos Reis, or deep into the Amazon, the Pantal, Ceara, Fernando de Noronho, Trancoso, Igacu falls and about 1000 other places are safe and among the most wonderful and awe inspiring beautiful places on Earth.

It’s also very easy to get to even today, and once there, finding the most beautiful pousadas is easy. Clearly and undeniably Brazil has terrible violence problems. And it’s heartbreaking because Brazil could have been a fully developed country...takes a lot of reading to understand why. But so much of what goes on in this world is sickening. But a well planned trip to Brazil is something magical!

If there is a reason not to go: it’s their new President!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4016
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:25 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Is it possible that Norwegian could gain traffic rights between Brazil and the US? As I stated in the Argentina thread there is a huge market for cheaper fares. While US Brazil is a little cheaper than Argentina the fares still often hover around $1k in economy, Azul is barely cheaper than AA or Delta. $500 fares would greatly stimulate the Market even though Brazil is admittedly more dangerous than the typical America would prefer.


Norwegian would be looking at two options:

1. Open up a US or Brazilian franchise to fly between the two countries. Highly unlikely for the time being.

2. Use Norwegian Argentina to fly 5th freedom flights between Brazil and the US, say: EZE-GIG-MIA or COR-GRU-MCO. Flights like those were the bread and butter for Aerolineas Argentinas until the 90s, when those intermediate stops fell out of the travelers' favor.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
reggiet
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:04 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:07 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Plenty.

And it's not just about knowing where "the places to avoid" are.
Hell, I and my companions were robbed in GIG, and it was right at the top of the Escadaria Selaron headed toward downtown, and in broad daylight.

Then shortly after that, was that incident on Ipanema where dozens of teens stormed the beach outta nowhere, started hitting males and cops on the head with bricks, and robbing/assaulting them while they stumbled around from that injury. After they ran out of bricks, they just started swarming and attacking anyone dressed like a tourist. Again, broad daylight.

If we had stayed just a few more days, we would've been caught up right there in it, because that's where we spent a bunch of our time. Plenty of people got that incident on YouTube. You can see it in the following clip starting at 6:15

https://youtu.be/We16NGscR5M?t=375



.....does any of this put me off of Brazil? No.
But to pretend that there's no increased element of tourist danger, relative to plenty of other similar destinations, is to be in complete and utter denial of reality.


Thanks for the youtube follow up brother. :checkmark:
Reggie in Austin
 
DCA350
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:32 pm

dcajet wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Is it possible that Norwegian could gain traffic rights between Brazil and the US? As I stated in the Argentina thread there is a huge market for cheaper fares. While US Brazil is a little cheaper than Argentina the fares still often hover around $1k in economy, Azul is barely cheaper than AA or Delta. $500 fares would greatly stimulate the Market even though Brazil is admittedly more dangerous than the typical America would prefer.


Norwegian would be looking at two options:

1. Open up a US or Brazilian franchise to fly between the two countries. Highly unlikely for the time being.

2. Use Norwegian Argentina to fly 5th freedom flights between Brazil and the US, say: EZE-GIG-MIA or COR-GRU-MCO. Flights like those were the bread and butter for Aerolineas Argentinas until the 90s, when those intermediate stops fell out of the travelers' favor.


Thanks for the info. Appropriately priced I think 5th Freedom could work. I know GOL does this but on a 737 to DR I believe.. Connecting 3 Major Metros like EZE GIG MIA/FLL should easily be able to fill a daily 787.
 
klkla
Posts: 799
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:15 am

VC10er wrote:
Yes, Brazil has some of the most violent “patches” on Earth. I lived there 18 years, Rio specifically and not ONCE had a problem..


You and I must just be 'lucky' lol. I've been there over 70 times in the last 15 years and never had a problem, either.
 
BBDFlyer
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:25 am

Mboyle1988 wrote:
BBDFlyer wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:

Why does north-south flying reduce utilization?

For carriers that rely on connecting traffic, a flight departing the US for S.America departs in the evening to capture connections. It does a redeye and arrives in the morning. If it turns around immediately and returns to the US, it arrives in the US at night, and the passengers cannot connect. So the flight spends all day in Brazil, and then departs in the evening and arrives in the morning in the US, so that passengers can make connections. The plane gets close to 12 hours of non-use sitting in places such as Brazil, Chile, Argentina, etc. American takes advantage of this down time to get maintenance done if they can. But generally speaking, this downtime is lost utilization.

In contrast, a US-Europe flight is quite different. Flights depart the US in the late afternoon through the evening and arrive in the Europe the next day. The flights turn around quickly and depart in the morning or early afternoon and arrive in the US early afternoon through early evening, allowing passengers to catch connections. This also allows the plane to quickly turn around and go back to Europe. The US-Asia schedules are similar, departing the US mid day and arriving in Asia, turning around and going back to the US on a redeye and arriving in the morning, and turning around and going back to Asia or going to Europe. It reduces the downtime.


GRU-MIA is 8:30 flight time. I believe there’s a two hour time difference. You could depart MIA at 8pm, arrive GRU 7:00AM. Depart GRU 8:30AM arrive MIA 3:00P. Could still handle connections.

MIA is really the only destination that could make that feasible. However, track the flights and you’ll see that they aren’t scheduled like that and the plane sits all day in GRU and GIG.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25691
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:44 am

BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


Many. And it’s not limited to Americans. I’ve been, and I’m sure I’ll go back. It’s nice, but not exactly a safe place to visit. People need to quit with this new PC trend that makes people reluctant about calling places dangerous. Call a place for what it is. That doesn’t mean don’t visit Rio. That means visit it realIzing it’s a very dangerous place, undoubtedly one of the most unsafe cities in the world, and take the appropriate precautions. You need to take many precautions when visiting Detroit or Chicago, too.
a.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5819
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:56 am

Brazil isn’t what I’d call a safe country over, but it’s important to keep things in perspective. If one looks at a list of the most dangerous cities in the world, a large number of them are in Brazil. However, they are mostly cities in the North and middle of the country. I would consider São Paulo and Porto Alegre to be quite safe given their size. Rio de Janeiro is a mixed bag, but many American cities like St Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans, and Detroit are more dangerous than Rio. Rio has roughly the same violent crime rate as Chicago. The difference is that Chicago is exceptionally segregated by race and income. Rio is less so.

I’ve spent ample time in Brazil and as recently as 10 days ago. Never once had an issue. Others have. A big part of it is keeping your wits about you.

As for adding more flights to Brazil, I don’t see why. Three markets really dominate the US-Brazil market: MIA/FLL, MCO, and NYC and they are well covered. You also have BOS and LAX but they are low fare to Brazil. BOS is VFR and LAX is tourist driven. Outside those you have business markets that are large and high fare but isolated like IAH-GIG and ORD-GRU.

Seems like everyone is covered to me.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
TUSDawg23
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 2:43 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:23 am

I would love to see more flights to Brazil, but the Brazilian economy is sluggish right now and I'm not sure there is really strong demand. I don't think eliminating the Visa requirement is going to do a lot to stimulate tourism from Americans to Brazil. Flights are expensive which keeps backpackers away, few Americans speak Portugese, and there is a widespread perception that the larger cities in Brazil are unsafe which keeps families from traveling there.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5819
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:29 am

TUSDawg23 wrote:
I would love to see more flights to Brazil, but the Brazilian economy is sluggish right now and I'm not sure there is really strong demand. I don't think eliminating the Visa requirement is going to do a lot to stimulate tourism from Americans to Brazil. Flights are expensive which keeps backpackers away, few Americans speak Portugese, and there is a widespread perception that the larger cities in Brazil are unsafe which keeps families from traveling there.


Ironically São Paulo, by far the largest city in Brazil, is quite safe. It’s the smaller cities that are more dangerous.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
User avatar
PRGEC
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:49 am

Regarding the violence, recent data shows that violent crimes have decreased by 22% over Brazil compared to last year.

The main problem is called the general press showing things as if they were commom things which happened everyday. We don't see the same thing coming out of Mexican press, for instance, right? Can we say it's safe? Far from it. I went to Cancun in 2015 and there were plenty of tourists missing who were eventually found dead in some random beach. It's a complete point of view wise.

I'm not saying Brazil is the safest place on earth, don't get me wrong, but things are way better than shown.
Libertas quæ sera tamen
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1537
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:13 am

There's so much potential, but Brazil remains the "little engine that couldn't", sadly.
@DadCelo
 
Planes4you
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:37 am

DFW-GIG literally failed after relaunching not too long ago.However if the Brazilian and Argentinian government accepts the AA/LATAM JV DFW could see some more service to South America.
 
mauro10
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:12 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:47 am

PRGEC wrote:
Regarding the violence, recent data shows that violent crimes have decreased by 22% over Brazil compared to last year.

The main problem is called the general press showing things as if they were commom things which happened everyday. We don't see the same thing coming out of Mexican press, for instance, right? Can we say it's safe? Far from it. I went to Cancun in 2015 and there were plenty of tourists missing who were eventually found dead in some random beach. It's a complete point of view wise.

I'm not saying Brazil is the safest place on earth, don't get me wrong, but things are way better than shown.



Exactly, Brazil is not that different from Mexico, for example. You wouldn't like to go to the "headquarters" of the Sinaloa cartel as much as you wouldn't go in the middle of the Brazilian favelas. There are places to avoid just like in every city/country (for sure more places to avoid in Brazil, but it is not like you're going to be assaulted as soon as you get to the airport).

Having said that, for sure violence must decrease, but I see potential growth regardless if the Brazilian government does a good marketing job. Brazil is much more than Rio + Northeastern beaches. Iguassu Falls, Amazon forest, the Pantanal, even urban tourism in São Paulo and other cities are all to be explored.

But I still think that air traffic growth between USA-Brazil is going to be much more driven by the growth of traffic originated in Brazil due to stabilization of the Brazilian economy, and I expect much more growth in frequency than new routes.

GOL has set a mini-hub in Fortaleza feeding AF-KL international flights to Paris and Amsterdam. Maybe DL could join this initiative.
LA/AA could bring new Miami flights to second tier cities in Brazil (Belo Horizonte, Salvador, Recife, Porto Alegre).
LA could bring back GRU-LAS
Azul could start São Paulo(VCP) -EWR with UA feed

Places like DTW, SFO and others would rely on connecting traffic to Asia that has a lot of competition via Europe and EK/QR/TK, so I would not bet on that
 
jfk777
Posts: 6985
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:18 am

There has been a huge amount of additional flights to GRU in the last 10 years. The US3 have added flights from many hubs nonstop to Sao Paulo, its United who flies ORD to GRU not the Latin America king AA. The days of having to fly to Miami or JFK ended long ago, even AA has a complete portfolio flying from DFW to EZE, GRU & SCL.

For flying to the smaller cities, now reachable by 737 Max, 757, or A321neo, Miami is still the gateway being so far south. Flights to Brazilian regional cities from MIA is between 5 to 7 hours.
 
Planes4you
Posts: 338
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:44 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Brazil dropped the visa requirement for US citizen in order to boost tourism.

Will we see more flights between US and Brazil? or any of the followings happening?
IMHO:

LATAM launch nonstop service from GRU to LAX, SFO, LAS?
LATAM being OneWorld would only probably make sense to fly to AA hubs or LAS which might have a (seasonal) P2P demand from Brazil and because the time difference between GRU and the U.S. West Coast, west-bound could be daytime.
Delta resume GRU flight from DTW and adding MSP-GRU or LAX-GRU?
Most likely DL could offer day-time GRU-ATL and ATL-GRU a couple of days per week in high season to allow connections @ ATL. Other than that DTW-GRU or others highly unlikely.

AA add more destinations in Brazil and launching new services to GIG from DFW and LAX?
From MIA yes. And for the most those Brazilian cities could support day-time Brazil-MIA fights if arrivals are mid/late afternoon or even early evening.
DFW-GIG, if there's some oil-related traffic demand from DFW (oil industry's big in Texas but more focused in Houston). If that'd be the target, that route must be red-eyes both ways, perhaps thrice weekly to start.
UA resume GIG service from EWR and IAD, also introduce new nonstop to GRU from SFO?
UA EWR-GIG would make sense, even if thrice weekly red-eyes both ways seasonal. Best schedule might be with very late EWR departure (midnight or so) and very early EWR arrival (before 0500).
Will B6 begin service to Brazil after receiving A321LR?
BEL, CGB, FOR or BSB from FLL/MCO?
Other than those, BEL or even FOR from JFK/BOS may be within range but the market might not be there at least for BEL, year-around.



AA dropped DFW-GIG not too long ago and this was the 2nd time it failed.
 
AF086
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:27 pm

Just a small note on the violence and crime rate: Rio gets the fame but it is not (and has never been) the most violent capital of Brazil. Tourist cities like NAT and FOR have higher rates and the latter is seeing growth in its international network. Yes violence may reduce tourist interest but it alone cannot be blamed in this case for the lackluster offer of flights between GIG and the US.

Now back to the topic:

In my view the sole Brazilian airport well covered to the US is GRU. With flights to LAX, IAH, DFW, ORD, JFK, EWR, IAD, ATL, MCO and MIA it has all the bases covered. Recently DL dropped their DTWGRU service but loads were erratic and low and yields were the lowest of the airline's to GRU.

As far is MIA is concerned it can sustain services to major Brazilian cities due to Brazil-originating traffic (mostly) and that is not influenced by the end of visas for US citizens. Perhaps we could see services to REC, FOR, SSA with the A321LR (if capable). I believe that mostly Brazilian cities that might interest american tourists will benefit more in terms of air traffic from the US. And we must also consider the stiff competition with the caribbean that is closer to the US and is "easier" for the average american tourist given the lack of language barriers, in some destinations, for instance. IGU would be a good bet as well but I believe it is too far for the A321LR/757 to serve with a decent payload.

GIG is, in my view, the most complicated case: it's economy was the one that suffered the most with the Brazilian downturn and lost a lot of services to the US with cancelations and reductions with all of the US3. Which, due to the old supply and demand rule, took GIG fares to the roof forcing traffic to GRU, for example. Currently, it lacks services to major destinations like MCO and NYC (current ones to the latter are seasonal). These are the major gaps to GIG and those are sustainable now, even considering that MCO is heavily dependent on Brazil-originating traffic. Especially with DL given that GIG is a focus airport of their partner Gol.

Other destinations such as DFW, IAD and so on need a strong connecting point at GIG which nobody offers. As said, Gol has GIG as a focus airport but the connections offer at GRU is unbeatable. GIG needs to be a true hub. Simple as that. With the demise of Avianca Brasil, the relegation of GIG to a feeder for LATAM's hubs (LIM, SCL and GRU), the same for Azul (VCP and CNF) and Gol's "relieve hub" strategy, GIG is in a very bad position.

It has three hubs less than an hour flight away (GRU, VCP and CNF) and no guns to compete. And it seems that none of the established players will consider hubbing there in the medium term. The solution could be new foreign airlines creating GIG based subsidiaries offering domestic services to/from GIG. With all of the other major airports in the Brazilian's richest region (Southeast) taken and given GIG's high tourism and more than decent business traffic it would make sense. But these decisions take several different factors in consideration.

Time will tell.
Last edited by AF086 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
User avatar
PRGEC
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:28 pm

Flying nonstop GIG-USA is currently so expensive due to lack of offer... In may - complete low season - GIG-MIA and ATL have run over 96% loaded with out-of-this-world fares.

Rio needs, at least, to be reconnected to NYC again and I see Delta as a better option turn its seasonal service into year round. Gol has a considerable feed for them and Rio's O/D is not that weak.
Libertas quæ sera tamen
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5575
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:35 pm

PRGEC wrote:
Flying nonstop GIG-USA is currently so expensive due to lack of offer... In may - complete low season - GIG-MIA and ATL have run over 96% loaded with out-of-this-world fares.


Carriers are going to extract hub premiums for their non-stops. DL GIG-ATL-GIG may be $1677 in October but GIG-ATL-BWI-ATL-GIG is $963. Adding a GIG-JFK isn't going to change that.
 
User avatar
PRGEC
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:44 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
PRGEC wrote:
Flying nonstop GIG-USA is currently so expensive due to lack of offer... In may - complete low season - GIG-MIA and ATL have run over 96% loaded with out-of-this-world fares.


Carriers are going to extract hub premiums for their non-stops. DL GIG-ATL-GIG may be $1677 in October but GIG-ATL-BWI-ATL-GIG is $963. Adding a GIG-JFK isn't going to change that.


You're right but have you checked GIG-ATL-JFK-ATL-GIG? Have you compared to GIG-GRU-JFK-GRU-GIG? That's what I mean, important gaps in GIG's network are being filled with tiring or expensive conections. Neverthless the load factors are high!

NYC has a good amount of O/D from Rio, AA operated it for years daily with 772s - we all know AA's conectivity has shrunk in both JFK and GIG for the last years and it was dropped alongside with important markets in NYC - we don't need to talk about connections in both ways in this case.

Rio's offer to the USA are even lower than VCP and why? Simply because VCP is a hub and GIG isn't. Until it's not changed, not even tax reductions will be effective.
Libertas quæ sera tamen
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5819
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:09 pm

PRGEC wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
PRGEC wrote:
Flying nonstop GIG-USA is currently so expensive due to lack of offer... In may - complete low season - GIG-MIA and ATL have run over 96% loaded with out-of-this-world fares.


Carriers are going to extract hub premiums for their non-stops. DL GIG-ATL-GIG may be $1677 in October but GIG-ATL-BWI-ATL-GIG is $963. Adding a GIG-JFK isn't going to change that.


You're right but have you checked GIG-ATL-JFK-ATL-GIG? Have you compared to GIG-GRU-JFK-GRU-GIG? That's what I mean, important gaps in GIG's network are being filled with tiring or expensive conections. Neverthless the load factors are high!

NYC has a good amount of O/D from Rio, AA operated it for years daily with 772s - we all know AA's conectivity has shrunk in both JFK and GIG for the last years and it was dropped alongside with important markets in NYC - we don't need to talk about connections in both ways in this case.

Rio's offer to the USA are even lower than VCP and why? Simply because VCP is a hub and GIG isn't. Until it's not changed, not even tax reductions will be effective.


Its all about what fares people are paying for the flights. GIG just doesnt command near the fare premiums that GRU does.

Look at the markets that exist for GIG in the US:
MIA: Huge local market and huge hub for AA
ATL: Provides connections at DL's mega hub
IAH: Large local market with high fares due to Oil and Gas ties
Seasonal NYC: Large local market but seasonal with subpar fares.

Look at what GIG had but lost:
All longhaul JJ flights: Theres just simply way more money to be made concentrating everything at GRU. Its just the way it is.
DFW: Large AA hub but tiny local market. Easier to let MIA have this one.
IAD: Smaller hub and smaller local market. This one was doomed from the start.
Year round NYC: Again large local market, but the fares are not great.
MCO: Huge local market but garbage fares.

I suppose if someone was going to give NYC a go year round, it would probably have to be UA so they could supplement the market with connections. Its by far the largest NYC based hub.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
Kno
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:14 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
What American thinks Brazil is dangerous?

Was there in April. Wondered all around Rio and São Paulo without a care in the world. Drove down the coast similarly care free.

People who read travel warnings and that stuff are really missing out on life.


A lot of American's think it is dangerous and for good reason.

I know of a few people that decided to vacation there and were robbed even staying in safe well researched neighborhoods.

I have several Brazilian colleagues and friends who frequently talk about how it's not worth the risk no matter where you go to visit unless you have family down there. Many of them are here not just for the opportunity but to escape violence.

I'm glad you had a safe trip, and while the odds are in favor of a safe trip if it's planned correctly, myself and many others would prefer to vacation somewhere where you don't have to have your guard up to the same extent as you would in Brazil - it's just not relaxing or fun when you aren't looking for an adventure where you are willing to accept a certain amount of risk.
 
x1234
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:18 pm

The US-Brazil market is like the Europe-South Africa market, both markets driven by VFR and business. BUT both Brazil & South Africa are incredibly dangerous compared to Europe/Asia so naturally there are risks. Whether you go depends on your risk tolerance.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9614
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:48 pm

BBDFlyer wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
BBDFlyer wrote:
Brazil fares are expensive due to the north-south flying, which reduces aircraft utilization. With few exceptions, it’s a red eye going each way, requiring the aircraft to sit at the outstation for the whole day not being utilized.


Why does north-south flying reduce utilization?

For carriers that rely on connecting traffic, a flight departing the US for S.America departs in the evening to capture connections.

It has nothing to do with connections.
TAP, the largest foreign carrier in Brazil does not operate red-eyes in both directions save for 1 route. BA, KLM, AF, are some airlines also operating day time flight to/from Brazil. And no it's not just European carriers. LATAM operates day time flights between the U.S. and Brazil.
U.S. carriers have connecting banks in the morning and in the evening so it's not about the connections. The belief is that premium passengers, those who can afford to pay for lie flat seats, prefer to fly red-eyes. So the airline make up for the time the aircraft is parked during the day.

To answer the OP's question, no I don't think eliminating visas will increase traffic. Like it or not crime rate in Brazil is high regardless of one's personal experience. Petty crime especially is rampant. There's a reason why the majority of traffic between U.S. and Brazil originates in Brazil. So with that in mind, increased demand will come from a stronger economy in Brazil and increased competition driving down fares.
Last edited by airbazar on Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6680
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:59 pm

PRGEC wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
PRGEC wrote:
Flying nonstop GIG-USA is currently so expensive due to lack of offer... In may - complete low season - GIG-MIA and ATL have run over 96% loaded with out-of-this-world fares.


Carriers are going to extract hub premiums for their non-stops. DL GIG-ATL-GIG may be $1677 in October but GIG-ATL-BWI-ATL-GIG is $963. Adding a GIG-JFK isn't going to change that.


You're right but have you checked GIG-ATL-JFK-ATL-GIG? Have you compared to GIG-GRU-JFK-GRU-GIG? That's what I mean, important gaps in GIG's network are being filled with tiring or expensive conections. Neverthless the load factors are high!

NYC has a good amount of O/D from Rio, AA operated it for years daily with 772s - we all know AA's conectivity has shrunk in both JFK and GIG for the last years and it was dropped alongside with important markets in NYC - we don't need to talk about connections in both ways in this case.

Rio's offer to the USA are even lower than VCP and why? Simply because VCP is a hub and GIG isn't. Until it's not changed, not even tax reductions will be effective.


Not sure dropped is the right word. AA JFK-GIG went from year round to seasonal. Starts back up in Dec.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos