T4thH
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Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:57 pm

Now confirmed.
Statement by government (ministery of economy of Saxony) yesterday, production site will be airport Leizig/Halle (as there is still enough space left).

Official announcement will be next week on 21-Aug-2019 during national conference of aviation at airport Leipzig/Halle with members of the government, government of Saxony and of Sierra Nevada Corporation: a new aircraft company will be founded (for production of the Dornier 328/follow up).
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/dornier-328-wird-in-leipzig-gebaut
and many others.
https://www.welt.de/regionales/sachsen/article198534415/Flugzeugbauer-will-am-Flughafen-Leipzig-Halle-ansiedeln.html
 
texl1649
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:16 pm

Involvement of the type cert. holder, in Germany, makes more sense. This time it really could happen.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:32 pm

Translation of 2nd link:

In the future, passenger aircraft will be built at Leipzig / Halle Airport. The production of the Dornier 328 turboprop will be resumed, it said on Wednesday from the Ministry of Economic Affairs in Dresden. The exact plans will be presented next week during the National Aviation Conference in Schkeuditz. Representatives of 328 Support Services, owner of the short-haul aircraft type certification, and Sierra Nevada Corporation of the United States are also expected to announce the creation of a new aircraft manufacturer. First, the "Leipziger Volkszeitung" reported on Wednesday. According to the newspaper, the settlement will create 300 new jobs.

Only on Tuesday had the operators of Leipzig / Halle Airport informed about plans to expand the freight business at the site. 500 million euros are to be invested in various areas, including a new hangar, the extension of an apron and a second Cargo City. Hundreds of jobs are being planned.

Any idea of who will be buying these aircraft and how big the market is?
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:51 pm

Hopefully it won't be another Rekkof
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T4thH
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:04 pm

Revelation wrote:
Translation of 2nd link:

In the future, passenger aircraft will be built at Leipzig / Halle Airport. The production of the Dornier 328 turboprop will be resumed, it said on Wednesday from the Ministry of Economic Affairs in Dresden. The exact plans will be presented next week during the National Aviation Conference in Schkeuditz. Representatives of 328 Support Services, owner of the short-haul aircraft type certification, and Sierra Nevada Corporation of the United States are also expected to announce the creation of a new aircraft manufacturer. First, the "Leipziger Volkszeitung" reported on Wednesday. According to the newspaper, the settlement will create 300 new jobs.

Only on Tuesday had the operators of Leipzig / Halle Airport informed about plans to expand the freight business at the site. 500 million euros are to be invested in various areas, including a new hangar, the extension of an apron and a second Cargo City. Hundreds of jobs are being planned.

Any idea of who will be buying these aircraft and how big the market is?


If I remember all expectations by Airbus, Boeing, Embraer e.g. for the next 20 years....The regional jet market (so up to 100 PAX) will not any more really grow, only by few hundred jets to 2400. In US the regional jet market will shrink to 1600, in Europe it shall shrink from now around 240 to just 60. In Europe it is estimated, regarding new laws e.g. (CO2 and NOx (as example Sweden and Norway), expected tax on fuel, expected rising fuel prizes, CO2 neutral fuel; which will be more expensive e.g.), the regional jets will be exchange by Turboprops. Question is, does the world needs a turboprop with less than 50 PAX? The ATR-72 is still selling pretty well. The ATR-42...not any more..
how big the market is
is there a market (big enough, that the Do 328 will be able to leave the orphan bird status)?
May be, but...I do not believe it.
 
duboka
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:57 pm

T4thH wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Translation of 2nd link:

In the future, passenger aircraft will be built at Leipzig / Halle Airport. The production of the Dornier 328 turboprop will be resumed, it said on Wednesday from the Ministry of Economic Affairs in Dresden. The exact plans will be presented next week during the National Aviation Conference in Schkeuditz. Representatives of 328 Support Services, owner of the short-haul aircraft type certification, and Sierra Nevada Corporation of the United States are also expected to announce the creation of a new aircraft manufacturer. First, the "Leipziger Volkszeitung" reported on Wednesday. According to the newspaper, the settlement will create 300 new jobs.

Only on Tuesday had the operators of Leipzig / Halle Airport informed about plans to expand the freight business at the site. 500 million euros are to be invested in various areas, including a new hangar, the extension of an apron and a second Cargo City. Hundreds of jobs are being planned.

Any idea of who will be buying these aircraft and how big the market is?


If I remember all expectations by Airbus, Boeing, Embraer e.g. for the next 20 years....The regional jet market (so up to 100 PAX) will not any more really grow, only by few hundred jets to 2400. In US the regional jet market will shrink to 1600, in Europe it shall shrink from now around 240 to just 60. In Europe it is estimated, regarding new laws e.g. (CO2 and NOx (as example Sweden and Norway), expected tax on fuel, expected rising fuel prizes, CO2 neutral fuel; which will be more expensive e.g.), the regional jets will be exchange by Turboprops. Question is, does the world needs a turboprop with less than 50 PAX? The ATR-72 is still selling pretty well. The ATR-42...not any more..
how big the market is
is there a market (big enough, that the Do 328 will be able to leave the orphan bird status)?
May be, but...I do not believe it.


I don't think that the market will be that large, but probably large enough to justify a small scale production. Most of the other 30 seat regional planes are not that young anymore like the Q100, Saab 340 and so on. I've heard that some the Q100 operated by Widerøe are about 30 years old. And larger aircrafts are probably a bit to large. So I think airlines like Widerøe are probably interested.They are not many but the number is clearly larger then zero.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:08 am

duboka wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Translation of 2nd link:


Any idea of who will be buying these aircraft and how big the market is?


If I remember all expectations by Airbus, Boeing, Embraer e.g. for the next 20 years....The regional jet market (so up to 100 PAX) will not any more really grow, only by few hundred jets to 2400. In US the regional jet market will shrink to 1600, in Europe it shall shrink from now around 240 to just 60. In Europe it is estimated, regarding new laws e.g. (CO2 and NOx (as example Sweden and Norway), expected tax on fuel, expected rising fuel prizes, CO2 neutral fuel; which will be more expensive e.g.), the regional jets will be exchange by Turboprops. Question is, does the world needs a turboprop with less than 50 PAX? The ATR-72 is still selling pretty well. The ATR-42...not any more..
how big the market is
is there a market (big enough, that the Do 328 will be able to leave the orphan bird status)?
May be, but...I do not believe it.


I don't think that the market will be that large, but probably large enough to justify a small scale production. Most of the other 30 seat regional planes are not that young anymore like the Q100, Saab 340 and so on. I've heard that some the Q100 operated by Widerøe are about 30 years old. And larger aircrafts are probably a bit to large. So I think airlines like Widerøe are probably interested.They are not many but the number is clearly larger then zero.


Only flew one flight on the 328, It was awesome & far too short PDX-GEG, it was almost brand new, recently delivered to QX & I wish they still had them, to in-fill where the Q-400 has been too big & markets where KS failed because of reliability issues with their Saabs.
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:03 am

Revelation wrote:
Any idea of who will be buying these aircraft and how big the market is?

:sun: That is the perfect replacement for the old D328 leisure island hoppers to the Philippines' little airports. :airplane: Problem is the brand-new price may be prohibitive for the potentially small operators who might be interested in it. And the number may not even exceed a half dozen. :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign: :dollarsign:



https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -g-460299/
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rlwynn
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:55 am

If Sierra Nevada is involved then they see money coming from government orders.
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Canuck600
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:15 am

Wonder if it can be adapted to other uses like a small freighter, medevac aircraft, different set ups for military use?
 
duboka
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:01 am

Canuck600 wrote:
Wonder if it can be adapted to other uses like a small freighter, medevac aircraft, different set ups for military use?


Yes of course! I think it be easily reconfigured as a medevac or an patrol aircraft. For the use as a small freighter it lacks a cargo ramp at the back. But probably Lockheed is willing to sell their plans for their X-55 to them!?
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:10 am

If they can make the economics work (the 328 is a bit of a hotship / amazing performance when you fly on one), the operators of smaller Saabs and Dash 8s could be all over this aircraft. Part of the reason airlinrs have upsized their aircraft has been through a lack of choice in this size of the market.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:14 am

duboka wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Translation of 2nd link:


Any idea of who will be buying these aircraft and how big the market is?


If I remember all expectations by Airbus, Boeing, Embraer e.g. for the next 20 years....The regional jet market (so up to 100 PAX) will not any more really grow, only by few hundred jets to 2400. In US the regional jet market will shrink to 1600, in Europe it shall shrink from now around 240 to just 60. In Europe it is estimated, regarding new laws e.g. (CO2 and NOx (as example Sweden and Norway), expected tax on fuel, expected rising fuel prizes, CO2 neutral fuel; which will be more expensive e.g.), the regional jets will be exchange by Turboprops. Question is, does the world needs a turboprop with less than 50 PAX? The ATR-72 is still selling pretty well. The ATR-42...not any more..
how big the market is
is there a market (big enough, that the Do 328 will be able to leave the orphan bird status)?
May be, but...I do not believe it.


I don't think that the market will be that large, but probably large enough to justify a small scale production. Most of the other 30 seat regional planes are not that young anymore like the Q100, Saab 340 and so on. I've heard that some the Q100 operated by Widerøe are about 30 years old. And larger aircrafts are probably a bit to large. So I think airlines like Widerøe are probably interested.They are not many but the number is clearly larger then zero.


Given the fact that there have been several attempts over the years to restart production of this aircraft specifically, I would assume those behind the effort feel there is a potential market viable enough to be worth the effort.

My understanding is that the D328 was a very capable aircraft though it entered service at a time when TProps and sub 50 seat aircraft were on their way out for many carriers.

Also, wasn’t it Dornier’s development of the D5/728 that caused the company’s demise? The causality being the D328 TProp/Jet?

77H
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:35 am

The TurboProp Do328 is a brilliant aircraft to fly in from a passenger perspective - comfortable cabin environment, good cruise speed for a prop, and pretty smooth in turbulence.

From an operational perspective, however, the thing is a real dog. That stellar performance means the 328's fuelburn is barely any different to an ATR 42-600, only with significantly fewer seats, more frequent maintenance intervals and less than rapid parts support. ATR's latest upgrades mean there's basically no short field performance advantage left for the Dornier either.

All of these issues will need addressing if this venture is going to gain serious orders and traction outside of the group proposing this.
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Mat1776
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:03 pm

I vaguely remember that the intellectual property of the design of Do-328 was acquired by a Turkish enterprise, and there was a plan to produce the 328 and develop a larger jet versions in Turkey.

I wonder what happened to that project.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:06 pm

 
iceberg210
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:05 pm

Exciting and great to see! Avcraft restrated the 328 before, (albeit not for long) so it does seem like something that could realistically happen unlike some of the other restarts suggested previously.

Two things I'm incredibly curious about.

I would assume there will be some updating but will there be a reengine? I would think that part of the key to a restart would be a step change in costs, but only time will tell. Other planes of that size could be powered by a 1800 hp engine, which the top GE Catalyst just hits, I wonder if trading performance for economics could be a beneficial trade for the plane.


My other question is will they dust off the stretch they were working on in the early nineties before they mothballed it for the 328jet? It's a little hard to see how a 30 seat aircraft will take the world by storm unless it's generally relying on special ops orders with a few civil orders on the side, it's a lot easier to see how a stretch that would trade the extra power (that the 328 has more than enough of) for capacity and economics paired with the hot and high 30 seater version might actually make a pretty interesting 1 2 punch. I know the ATR 42 isn't the greatest seller, but I think part of that is that every 42 built is a 72 they could have built so it suffers some from having to make up the profits for the bigger aircraft making it more expensive than it needs to be, and being overbuilt anyway.
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:14 pm

Mat1776 wrote:
I wonder what happened to that project.

The project was cancelled by the Turkish side in 2017 without much publicity:
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/10/27/turkey-terminates-local-jet-program-worth-billions/

----------
It's worth pointing out that the Air Force Special Operations Command has put 20 Do328 (C-146A Wolfhound) into service over the last decade and is now the single largest operator of this type. The majority of the aircraft are rebuilds and received various modifications. I therefore suspect SNC is primarily aiming for the goverment market at the moment, as already mentioned by another user.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:34 pm

duboka wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Translation of 2nd link:


Any idea of who will be buying these aircraft and how big the market is?


If I remember all expectations by Airbus, Boeing, Embraer e.g. for the next 20 years....The regional jet market (so up to 100 PAX) will not any more really grow, only by few hundred jets to 2400. In US the regional jet market will shrink to 1600, in Europe it shall shrink from now around 240 to just 60. In Europe it is estimated, regarding new laws e.g. (CO2 and NOx (as example Sweden and Norway), expected tax on fuel, expected rising fuel prizes, CO2 neutral fuel; which will be more expensive e.g.), the regional jets will be exchange by Turboprops. Question is, does the world needs a turboprop with less than 50 PAX? The ATR-72 is still selling pretty well. The ATR-42...not any more..
how big the market is
is there a market (big enough, that the Do 328 will be able to leave the orphan bird status)?
May be, but...I do not believe it.


I don't think that the market will be that large, but probably large enough to justify a small scale production. Most of the other 30 seat regional planes are not that young anymore like the Q100, Saab 340 and so on. I've heard that some the Q100 operated by Widerøe are about 30 years old. And larger aircrafts are probably a bit to large. So I think airlines like Widerøe are probably interested.They are not many but the number is clearly larger then zero.
airlines that fly 30 seat turboprops usually can’t afford new build airplanes
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:28 pm

iceberg210 wrote:
I would assume there will be some updating but will there be a reengine? I would think that part of the key to a restart would be a step change in costs, but only time will tell. Other planes of that size could be powered by a 1800 hp engine, which the top GE Catalyst just hits, I wonder if trading performance for economics could be a beneficial trade for the plane.

That (and a bit of avionics upgrade) will likely raise the price even more, putting it farther away from the reach of prospective users. Is GE's ATP a viable alternative? It's certainly intriguing whether the reduction in operations costs could offset the initial capex, especially if SNC put out keen offers to attain critical mass.

I wonder if Cessna would pursue development of the 19-pax 408 version of their unpressurized, 200-knot, PT6-65 powered, ~$5.5M SkyCourier? :scratchchin:
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iceberg210
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:21 pm

Devilfish wrote:
iceberg210 wrote:
I would assume there will be some updating but will there be a reengine? I would think that part of the key to a restart would be a step change in costs, but only time will tell. Other planes of that size could be powered by a 1800 hp engine, which the top GE Catalyst just hits, I wonder if trading performance for economics could be a beneficial trade for the plane.

That (and a bit of avionics upgrade) will likely raise the price even more, putting it farther away from the reach of prospective users. Is GE's ATP a viable alternative? It's certainly intriguing whether the reduction in operations costs could offset the initial capex, especially if SNC put out keen offers to attain critical mass.

I wonder if Cessna would pursue development of the 19-pax 408 version of their unpressurized, 200-knot, PT6-65 powered, ~$5.5M SkyCourier? :scratchchin:

You're right that a new engine would usually increase capex cost, I wonder however because the GE Catalyst (formerly known as the ATP) would be using it's biggest variants, while the PW would be using the smallest of the family, and the new cost savings that the 3D design and production of the Catalyst has might shave that cost difference down (or actually be cheaper per unit although more expensive when certification costs are looked at). I don't know but it's something they should be looking into, because I just don't see new planes being competitive with life extension planes unless you can get a step change in operations costs which I would think stepping up a generation in engines would at least help with. Now the biggest question in my mind is can the Catalyst pull it off? It has 1650 hp growth potential according to GE, and while other 30 seater aircaft J41's(1650hp) Q100's (1800 HP)and EMB120's (1800 HP) have flown with that or similar HP, the 328 was always more performance oriented, at 2180 HP. It may be that the 328 is designed for faster flight and that underpowering it would be disastrous, although I do wonder since the wing is based in part on 228 technology if it might be more adapatable than we think. Time will tell but if I was at SNC I'd be trying to figure out a way to get a new generation engine on there one way or another.
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Gulfstream500
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:09 pm

A little late on that one. Had this been a year earlier, Silver may have ordered the 328 to replace their Saab 340s. At least they can still market them to Logan air, REX, and Air Canada.

Any word on a 328JET revival?

Devilfish wrote:
iceberg210 wrote:
I would assume there will be some updating but will there be a reengine? I would think that part of the key to a restart would be a step change in costs, but only time will tell. Other planes of that size could be powered by a 1800 hp engine, which the top GE Catalyst just hits, I wonder if trading performance for economics could be a beneficial trade for the plane.

That (and a bit of avionics upgrade) will likely raise the price even more, putting it farther away from the reach of prospective users. Is GE's ATP a viable alternative? It's certainly intriguing whether the reduction in operations costs could offset the initial capex, especially if SNC put out keen offers to attain critical mass.

I wonder if Cessna would pursue development of the 19-pax 408 version of their unpressurized, 200-knot, PT6-65 powered, ~$5.5M SkyCourier? :scratchchin:


I don’t think so. Even a 30 seat jet is stretching it. But a 19 seat aircraft would be crazy inefficient, and air canada (the last major 19-seat operator in North America) is phasing out the last of the Beechcraft 1900s.
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:09 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
If they can make the economics work (the 328 is a bit of a hotship / amazing performance when you fly on one), the operators of smaller Saabs and Dash 8s could be all over this aircraft. Part of the reason airlinrs have upsized their aircraft has been through a lack of choice in this size of the market.


I don't know. PlymSpotter mentioned ATR-42s. I don't see a big rush to buy those.

It's just easier to split U.S./Canadian pilot costs over 70/76 seats than it is 30 or 50.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:53 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
If they can make the economics work (the 328 is a bit of a hotship / amazing performance when you fly on one), the operators of smaller Saabs and Dash 8s could be all over this aircraft. Part of the reason airlinrs have upsized their aircraft has been through a lack of choice in this size of the market.


I don't know. PlymSpotter mentioned ATR-42s. I don't see a big rush to buy those.

It's just easier to split U.S./Canadian pilot costs over 70/76 seats than it is 30 or 50.


Again it comes down to what the airline needs. Airlines like Loganair and Widerøe operate on many routes where 50 seats is simply too much aircraft for these small airports and communities. It's going to be an interesting one to watch given the new ATR42 short runway model, but any new Dornier will need to get the running costs down to give the advantage.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:49 am

T4thH wrote:
The ATR-72 is still selling pretty well. The ATR-42...not any more...


iceberg210 wrote:
I know the ATR 42 isn't the greatest seller, but I think part of that is that every 42 built is a 72 they could have built so it suffers some from having to make up the profits for the bigger aircraft making it more expensive than it needs to be, and being overbuilt anyway.


MIflyer12 wrote:
PlymSpotter mentioned ATR-42s. I don't see a big rush to buy those.



The ATR 42 market is actually heating up. It is being drive by the need to replace old ATR 42s at operators where a -72 can't do the job, and the smaller Dash 8s, SAAB 340s and E120s can't fly much longer, helped by the recent launch of the ATR 42-600S. A representative of a leasing company told me they couldn't get their hands on ATR 42s (used and new) fast enough, while at the recent Paris Air Show the ATR 42 got just as many orders as the ATR 72.

It is the ATR 72 that is beginning to suffer. The A220 and E2 are actually matching the ATR in fuel burn, which is pushing the ATR 72 into a limited rough/short field niche.

IMHO, now is the right time to make a push for the 37 seat market, but acquisition costs needs to be low.
 
T4thH
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:47 am

VSMUT wrote:
T4thH wrote:
The ATR-72 is still selling pretty well. The ATR-42...not any more...


iceberg210 wrote:
I know the ATR 42 isn't the greatest seller, but I think part of that is that every 42 built is a 72 they could have built so it suffers some from having to make up the profits for the bigger aircraft making it more expensive than it needs to be, and being overbuilt anyway.


MIflyer12 wrote:
PlymSpotter mentioned ATR-42s. I don't see a big rush to buy those.



The ATR 42 market is actually heating up. It is being drive by the need to replace old ATR 42s at operators where a -72 can't do the job, and the smaller Dash 8s, SAAB 340s and E120s can't fly much longer, helped by the recent launch of the ATR 42-600S. A representative of a leasing company told me they couldn't get their hands on ATR 42s (used and new) fast enough, while at the recent Paris Air Show the ATR 42 got just as many orders as the ATR 72.

It is the ATR 72 that is beginning to suffer. The A220 and E2 are actually matching the ATR in fuel burn, which is pushing the ATR 72 into a limited rough/short field niche.

IMHO, now is the right time to make a push for the 37 seat market, but acquisition costs needs to be low.

There have not been any ATR-42 orders for several years. (if I remember correctly). We have seen some orders during Paris Air show this year for the ATR family. Most for the ATR-72 and some (also nice orders in numbers) for the ATR-42. But these were ATR-42-600S, so the STOL version of the ATR family. This is something special, and the ATR-42 600S is s´just a niche bird, the numbers globally needed will be limited.

Yes, I am on your site, it is now time, to modernize the ATR family. It is time to do a NEO version, to upgrade the wing e.g. Airbus has 50% share of the ATR and as I have had read somewhere some time ago, that Airbus seems to block the upgrade.
As ATR has now less or more the monopol in the 50 to 90 seat turboprop market, as bad guy, Airbus is not wrong. There is no need to waste money for a new development e.g. now, they have the monopol. As seen during Paris Air show, there were few Q400 orders and several time more ATR orders. And all turboprop competitors...the ATR family is the most modern of them.

And yes, there is one big market for 30 seat turboprop regional birds in the world. Around 200 70 Pax, 60x 50 Pax and arround 800x 30 PAX are expected by ATR for...China in the next 20 years. And this is the problem. These regional airlines will be state owned or half state owned. These routes will be sponsored by the government, regional governments e.g., else no one will ever fly them, without sponsoring, airlines will only burn money. These are just strategic infrastructural programs, to connect the low populated regions of China with the rest. And as regular in..not democratic states, who pays is allowed to paint the fence. The sponsor will decide, which jet or turboprop type will have to fly the routes. And these will be neither ATR nor a Do 328. These will be local products, Xian, Comac, ARJs......
 
VSMUT
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:56 am

T4thH wrote:
There have not been any ATR-42 orders for several years. (if I remember correctly). We have seen some orders during Paris Air show this year for the ATR family. Most for the ATR-72 and some (also nice orders in numbers) for the ATR-42. But these were ATR-42-600S, so the STOL version of the ATR family. This is something special, and the ATR-42 600S is s´just a niche bird, the numbers globally needed will be limited.


You remember incorrectly.
At Paris ATR received:
2 for Air Tahiti for the 42-600S
10 for Elix for the 42-600S
1 for EasyFly for the 42-600
5 for an undisclosed customer for the 42-600
20 firm, 20 options and 20 LOIs from NAC for the 42-600

So 37 (potentially up to 77) ATR 42s vs 37 ATR 72s.

It was less spectacular in Farnborough in 2018, but here they received orders for 4 ATR 42-600s and 3 ATR 72-600s.
In Paris in 2017, it was 13 ATR 42s vs 4 ATR 72s.

You will find lots of lightly used ATR 72-500 and even some brand new 72-600s already in storage. Good luck finding a single idle ATR 42 of newer date anywhere. They are being snatched up as fast as they hit the market.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:37 am

The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.
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VSMUT
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:51 am

PlymSpotter wrote:
The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.


As mentioned above, the -72 is being outmatched by the A220 and E2. It has pushed the ATR into the short and rough field niche, where the -42 does have advantages over the -72.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 am

VSMUT wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.


As mentioned above, the -72 is being outmatched by the A220 and E2. It has pushed the ATR into the short and rough field niche, where the -42 does have advantages over the -72.


So, in your opinion, was Airbus right all along -- by denying ATR funding to build larger turboprops, and confining them to -72s and -42s?
Because if paid-for -72 is having difficulty selling under pressure from jets, I see difficulties to pay back investment, necessary for a brand-new turboprop airplane development, in larger segments (where jets are even more entrenched).
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VSMUT
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:17 am

Phosphorus wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.


As mentioned above, the -72 is being outmatched by the A220 and E2. It has pushed the ATR into the short and rough field niche, where the -42 does have advantages over the -72.


So, in your opinion, was Airbus right all along -- by denying ATR funding to build larger turboprops, and confining them to -72s and -42s?
Because if paid-for -72 is having difficulty selling under pressure from jets, I see difficulties to pay back investment, necessary for a brand-new turboprop airplane development, in larger segments (where jets are even more entrenched).


In hindsight, yes, Airbus has been right.

IMO, the big issue is that no new turboprop engine in this class has come along since the current ATR engine. The PW127 is pretty much just a slightly upgraded version of an engine from the start of the 1980s. Fuel savings are minimal to non-existant with no significant change in performance. Brand new ATRs are rolling out of the factory with the equivalent of a CFM56-3 mounted on the wing.
If or when an engine that offers enough savings and performance comes out, a bigger turboprop will make sense.
 
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OA940
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:54 am

I'm sorry but, regarding the future regional market, I don't buy the idea that the demand for turboprops will shrink. Do you mean to tell me that current flights operated by SAABs and Q200s will suddenly go to E-Jets? Well not in the short term that's for sure. The demand for such a type is there. Just look at any airline that operates Q100s/Q200s/S340s/E120s/DO328s which will all need replacing because of their age. I assume their cycles aren't low either. Some of them could probably be replaced by ATR 42s but I doubt that's the case for all of them. The below-50 seat market is still largely without a replacement, so, assuming the price is normal airlines will buy it.

I wonder what improvements they're planning to make. I assume to revive an almost 30 year old design you'll probably need to make some improvements. Will there be new engines? I assume they're gonna upgrade the avionics.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
duboka
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:15 am

https://www.aero.de/news-32349/Comeback ... r-328.html

The aircraft with the name D328NEU, a further development of the Dornier 328, is to offer space for up to 39 passengers.

The propellers should rotate quieter than the predecessor model and CO2 emissions should also be lower.

Thomas Jarzombek (CDU), Aerospace Coordinator of the Federal Government, announced that the small aircraft could also be electrified in the future.


So this aircraft is a further development of the classic Do328. The first aircraft should enter service in 2023.
I hope that this aircraft is going to have some success in its niche market...
 
VSMUT
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:23 am

OA940 wrote:
Some of them could probably be replaced by ATR 42s but I doubt that's the case for all of them. The below-50 seat market is still largely without a replacement, so, assuming the price is normal airlines will buy it.


An ATR 42 already burns less fuel than a SAAB 340 while carrying 13 more passengers. How is that not a replacement?
 
duboka
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:46 am

VSMUT wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Some of them could probably be replaced by ATR 42s but I doubt that's the case for all of them. The below-50 seat market is still largely without a replacement, so, assuming the price is normal airlines will buy it.


An ATR 42 already burns less fuel than a SAAB 340 while carrying 13 more passengers. How is that not a replacement?



Probably the ATR 42 has higher landing fees and other induced costs , which makes this larger aircraft more expensive to operate than the SAAB 340... A lower fuel burn is not everything...
 
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terrificturk
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:47 am

The Dornier 328-100 and -300 have a great history of flying as 32 pax, as Corporate Shuttle, as VIP, as MedEvac /Air Ambulance... the built-quality far exceeded anything that was standard in this market, which is why they are still selling and flying.
Downside: it was over-engineered, required care and understanding, had no larger sibling (this was stopped due to management incompetence), and in the end was too expensive.
SNC being the main driver means that they will get a handful to replace what they operate already. If it gets a larger sibling this time, it could well sell up to 200.
SNC alsoowns ther TC-holder, where the customising and delivery centre will be. They know exactly what they are doing.
 
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OA940
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:36 am

duboka wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Some of them could probably be replaced by ATR 42s but I doubt that's the case for all of them. The below-50 seat market is still largely without a replacement, so, assuming the price is normal airlines will buy it.


An ATR 42 already burns less fuel than a SAAB 340 while carrying 13 more passengers. How is that not a replacement?



Probably the ATR 42 has higher landing fees and other induced costs , which makes this larger aircraft more expensive to operate than the SAAB 340... A lower fuel burn is not everything...


I was thinking it more in a ''At least some of the operators of 30-37 seaters don't need, or more accurately don't have the demand for 50 seaters'' kind of way
A350/CSeries = bae
 
T4thH
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:50 am

VSMUT wrote:
T4thH wrote:
There have not been any ATR-42 orders for several years. (if I remember correctly). We have seen some orders during Paris Air show this year for the ATR family. Most for the ATR-72 and some (also nice orders in numbers) for the ATR-42. But these were ATR-42-600S, so the STOL version of the ATR family. This is something special, and the ATR-42 600S is s´just a niche bird, the numbers globally needed will be limited.


You remember incorrectly.
At Paris ATR received:
2 for Air Tahiti for the 42-600S
10 for Elix for the 42-600S
1 for EasyFly for the 42-600
5 for an undisclosed customer for the 42-600
20 firm, 20 options and 20 LOIs from NAC for the 42-600

So 37 (potentially up to 77) ATR 42s vs 37 ATR 72s.

It was less spectacular in Farnborough in 2018, but here they received orders for 4 ATR 42-600s and 3 ATR 72-600s.
In Paris in 2017, it was 13 ATR 42s vs 4 ATR 72s.

You will find lots of lightly used ATR 72-500 and even some brand new 72-600s already in storage. Good luck finding a single idle ATR 42 of newer date anywhere. They are being snatched up as fast as they hit the market.


Sorry, I do not know, from where you have the numbers.
In Paris, up to 100x ATR-600 family members have been sold to NAC, it is not disclosed, which family members. NAC has till now only ordered ATR-72 in history and they are the biggest lessor for regional planes.
NAC Chairman Martin Møller said: “To plan for a successful future, it is vital for us to invest in the very best technology, so that we can offer flexible and efficient solutions to our clients. The ATR72-600, with a significant fuel burn advantage drives lower costs and emissions making it the optimal choice for many of our clients. Aviation is moving towards a sustainable future and with this 100+ aircraft deal, we are making a strategic decision to ensure that airlines can lease and operate the most modern and eco-responsible regional aircraft available in the market.”

It sounds not, that they will order the ATR-42-600, instead are primary interested in the ATR-72-600.
http://www.atraircraft.com/newsroom/pressrelease/nac-signs-for-up-to-100-atrs-1559-en.html
Else they have sold 17 ATR42-600 S version; as said´, this will be a niche product (also an important one).
http://www.atraircraft.com/newsroom/pressrelease/atr-announces-75-new-orders-at-international-paris-air-show-worth-us-1-7-billion-1567-en.html
Just let us discuss the forecast by ATR for the regional market in the next 20 years. 21% of the turboprops will be in the ATR42 PAX range and 79"% in the ATR-72 PAX range. 40 to 60 PAX: 630 deliveries and 2390 deliveries for the 61 to 80 PAX range.Please note, this is bigger than the regional JET market. In 20 years, boeing is estimating around 2400 regional jets flying (so not deliveries, Boeing forecast, I will not search for the link now).
http://www.atraircraft.com/ebook/TURBOPROP-MARKET-FORECAST/4/
Please note, that there is now a big request for the ATR-42-600 has another reason. Also much less needed; there is a demand for the ATR-42, for high and hot and short runways. There is a lack of ATR-42-600 now, because in last years, these have just not been ordered (or only in not sufficient numbers), only (or mostly) the ATR-72-600.
 
T4thH
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:15 pm

VSMUT wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.


As mentioned above, the -72 is being outmatched by the A220 and E2. It has pushed the ATR into the short and rough field niche, where the -42 does have advantages over the -72.


Sorry to say it...but apple and pies.
So, yes. the ATR family needs an upgrade (engine, wings e.g.).
A220 and E195-E2 did not count in any way, these is a different class, not really competing with the turboprop market.

The regional JET market is the US market (and it will not any more grow in the next 20 years). More than 3/4 of all regional jets are flying in US and in 20 years 2/3.
The E175-E2 is dead, if the scope clauses in US will not change (just remind, the US market is the regional jet market, no US and your bird will stay orphan and the rest of the world will avoid to buy it). It will be orphan and no one will order it. Also it seems to have no real or limited benefit in comparison to the E175 and the benefit is killed by higher price of the jet/engines and higher maintenance cost for the engines. The E175-E2 is a DODO, (so dead as a....).The E190-E2 again has 100 PAX, so also (but only a little) bigger than the ATR72-600. It is also another class.
The whole E2 family is not selling well. Only few airlines, rest are lessors. The E195, E195-E2 and the A220 (all members) are not regional jets!

And please note, forecasts say, regarding expected changes in laws, additional fees for NOx and CO2, expected move to CO2 neutral fuels (which are more expensive e.g.), in Europe and other parts of the world the regional JET market will disappear or get negligible just verify the Boeing JET forecast for the next 20 years. .Now 240 regional jets, in 20 years around 60 will be left and these are already "old" for Europe. The market for Europe will move to the Turboprop, as we have seen it already or see it now for Norway and Sweden (there the laws, tax and fees regarding CO2 and NOx have already been implemented).
 
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Polot
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:27 pm

T4thH wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.


As mentioned above, the -72 is being outmatched by the A220 and E2. It has pushed the ATR into the short and rough field niche, where the -42 does have advantages over the -72.


Sorry to say it...but apple and pies.
So, yes. the ATR family needs an upgrade (engine, wings e.g.).
A220 and E195-E2 did not count in any way, these is a different class, not really competing with the turboprop market.

The regional JET market is the US market (and it will not any more grow in the next 20 years). More than 3/4 of all regional jets are flying in US and in 20 years 2/3.
The E175-E2 is dead, if the scope clauses in US will not change (just remind, the US market is the regional jet market, no US and your bird will stay orphan and the rest of the world will avoid to buy it). It will be orphan and no one will order it. Also it seems to have no real or limited benefit in comparison to the E175 and the benefit is killed by higher price of the jet/engines and higher maintenance cost for the engines. The E175-E2 is a DODO, (so dead as a....).The E190-E2 again has 100 PAX, so also (but only a little) bigger than the ATR72-600. It is also another class.
The whole E2 family is not selling well. Only few airlines, rest are lessors. The E195, E195-E2 and the A220 (all members) are not regional jets!

And please note, forecasts say, regarding expected changes in laws, additional fees for NOx and CO2, expected move to CO2 neutral fuels (which are more expensive e.g.), in Europe and other parts of the world the regional JET market will disappear or get negligible just verify the Boeing JET forecast for the next 20 years. .Now 240 regional jets, in 20 years around 60 will be left and these are already "old" for Europe. The market for Europe will move to the Turboprop, as we have seen it already or see it now for Norway and Sweden (there the laws, tax and fees regarding CO2 and NOx have already been implemented).

It would not surprise me if PW GTF emissions are approaching those of turboprops. In the end the ATR engines are based on a ~35 year old platform with minimal updates. It doesn’t matter that they are turboprops or lower thrust, eventually technology catches up.

As VSMUT stated there needs to be a significant update (re:new engines) in the turboprop market. Without one regional props will die just like regional jets. But since the turboprop market is currently essentially a monopoly (on both the airframe and engine side) there is little motivation to develop a new one.
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:31 pm

VSMUT wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.


As mentioned above, the -72 is being outmatched by the A220 and E2. It has pushed the ATR into the short and rough field niche, where the -42 does have advantages over the -72.


I disagree with the statement. ATR have always been at the leading edge of the STOL niche, well before the C Series was conceived, but the ATR and A220 / E2 address completely different markets with inconsequential overlap. As for outmatched - you need to define what you mean. Yes the A220 / E2 may have lower seat costs, but so does a 737 - meanwhile the trip costs are considerably higher, which is what ultimately counts for the vast majority of global ATR operators as they don't need extra capacity. Sure a few carriers like AZUL have used the ATR 72 as route openers and are planning on upgauging flights to the E2s, but this example is relatively rare.
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Polot
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:42 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
The only major headache for the ATR 42 is the performance of the ATR 72. They are both superb aircraft and wonderful to fly on.


As mentioned above, the -72 is being outmatched by the A220 and E2. It has pushed the ATR into the short and rough field niche, where the -42 does have advantages over the -72.


I disagree with the statement. ATR have always been at the leading edge of the STOL niche, well before the C Series was conceived, but the ATR and A220 / E2 address completely different markets with inconsequential overlap. As for outmatched - you need to define what you mean. Yes the A220 / E2 may have lower seat costs, but so does a 737 - meanwhile the trip costs are considerably higher, which is what ultimately counts for the vast majority of global ATR operators as they don't need extra capacity. Sure a few carriers like AZUL have used the ATR 72 as route openers and are planning on upgauging flights to the E2s, but this example is relatively rare.

VSMUT is not talking about per seat. A220/E2 raw fuel burn is getting close to turboprops, and making the raw overall trip costs competitive.
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:46 pm

Polot wrote:
VSMUT is not talking about per seat. A220/E2 raw fuel burn is getting close to turboprops, and making the raw overall trip costs competitive.


viewtopic.php?t=1355819
ATR 72-500 — 620 kg/h
Embraer E-170 — 1530 kg/h


numbers may be different a bit, but comparison is clear
 
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Aesma
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:57 pm

Mat1776 wrote:
I vaguely remember that the intellectual property of the design of Do-328 was acquired by a Turkish enterprise, and there was a plan to produce the 328 and develop a larger jet versions in Turkey.

I wonder what happened to that project.


I didn't believe in it, and and I don't believe in this one either.

Time will tell.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
T4thH
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:20 pm

Aesma wrote:

Time will tell.


Time is now (and now means few min ago), as prior announced: Or do you mean, that the Do328NEU will ever fly; this is of course a total other story.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/new-airframer-dra-to-revive-dornier-328-production-460396/
New airframer DRA to revive Dornier 328 production

The three parties signed a memorandum of understanding on 21 August to establish the new final assembly line in the east German city. Up to 250 jobs will be created in Leipzig, with a further 100 at 328 Support Service's site in Oberpfaffenhofen, Bavaria.

However, few details on the aircraft have been released. DRA describes the proposed development as a "derivative of the Dornier 328", which it calls the D328NEU.

More information on the aircraft's specification will be released in early 2020, the company says.

US firm Sierra Nevada has owned 328 Support Services since 2015.

Edit, just had deleted the part with PW engines. Engines are not disclosed and pictures as Turboprop have been shown during presentation today.
Last edited by T4thH on Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ellofiend
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:26 pm

I was thinking a potential Regional Express order to replace their rather large fleet of Saab 340's I mean the youngest to of the 42 are over 22 years old. Considering the environment and limitations, I think this could fit the bill for at least a partial fleet replacement quite nicely
 
iceberg210
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:59 pm

duboka wrote:
https://www.aero.de/news-32349/Comeback-fuer-die-Dornier-328.html

The aircraft with the name D328NEU, a further development of the Dornier 328, is to offer space for up to 39 passengers.

The propellers should rotate quieter than the predecessor model and CO2 emissions should also be lower.

Thomas Jarzombek (CDU), Aerospace Coordinator of the Federal Government, announced that the small aircraft could also be electrified in the future.


So this aircraft is a further development of the classic Do328. The first aircraft should enter service in 2023.
I hope that this aircraft is going to have some success in its niche market...

39 passengers? Is that thanks to slimline seats and reconfiguring the current fuselage or did the old 428 stretch plans get dusted off I wonder?
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive ... 02731.html

That might be the kind of 'step change' in economics it needs. I'm looking forward to learning more, not saying I'm sure it'll all happen but it's got a lot better chance than most any relaunch.
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terrificturk
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 pm

T4thH wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Time will tell.


Time is now (and now means few min ago), as prior announced: Or do you mean, that the Do328NEU will ever fly; this is of course a total other story.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/new-airframer-dra-to-revive-dornier-328-production-460396/
New airframer DRA to revive Dornier 328 production

The three parties signed a memorandum of understanding on 21 August to establish the new final assembly line in the east German city. Up to 250 jobs will be created in Leipzig, with a further 100 at 328 Support Service's site in Oberpfaffenhofen, Bavaria.

However, few details on the aircraft have been released. DRA describes the proposed development as a "derivative of the Dornier 328", which it calls the D328NEU.

More information on the aircraft's specification will be released in early 2020, the company says.

US firm Sierra Nevada has owned 328 Support Services since 2015.

Edit, just had deleted the part with PW engines. Engines are not disclosed and pictures as Turboprop have been shown during presentation today.



The original Do328-100 had PW119 series engines (B and C). It would make a lot of sense to stick to that engine family, i.e. the PW120/123 as it is now. The only remaining question is about the prop: The original had the Hartzell 6-blade composite prop, when others still used 4-blade steel/alloy props... so will it be Hartzell again ?
 
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:28 pm

iceberg210 wrote:
duboka wrote:
https://www.aero.de/news-32349/Comeback-fuer-die-Dornier-328.html

The aircraft with the name D328NEU, a further development of the Dornier 328, is to offer space for up to 39 passengers.

The propellers should rotate quieter than the predecessor model and CO2 emissions should also be lower.

Thomas Jarzombek (CDU), Aerospace Coordinator of the Federal Government, announced that the small aircraft could also be electrified in the future.


So this aircraft is a further development of the classic Do328. The first aircraft should enter service in 2023.
I hope that this aircraft is going to have some success in its niche market...

39 passengers? Is that thanks to slimline seats and reconfiguring the current fuselage or did the old 428 stretch plans get dusted off I wonder?
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive ... 02731.html

That might be the kind of 'step change' in economics it needs. I'm looking forward to learning more, not saying I'm sure it'll all happen but it's got a lot better chance than most any relaunch.


In my understanding they want to stretch the fuselage a bit.
 
T4thH
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Re: Revival of the Dornier 328 (next try). Production in Leipzig planned.

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:31 pm

terrificturk wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Aesma wrote:

Time will tell.


Time is now (and now means few min ago), as prior announced: Or do you mean, that the Do328NEU will ever fly; this is of course a total other story.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/new-airframer-dra-to-revive-dornier-328-production-460396/
New airframer DRA to revive Dornier 328 production

The three parties signed a memorandum of understanding on 21 August to establish the new final assembly line in the east German city. Up to 250 jobs will be created in Leipzig, with a further 100 at 328 Support Service's site in Oberpfaffenhofen, Bavaria.

However, few details on the aircraft have been released. DRA describes the proposed development as a "derivative of the Dornier 328", which it calls the D328NEU.

More information on the aircraft's specification will be released in early 2020, the company says.

US firm Sierra Nevada has owned 328 Support Services since 2015.

Edit, just had deleted the part with PW engines. Engines are not disclosed and pictures as Turboprop have been shown during presentation today.



The original Do328-100 had PW119 series engines (B and C). It would make a lot of sense to stick to that engine family, i.e. the PW120/123 as it is now. The only remaining question is about the prop: The original had the Hartzell 6-blade composite prop, when others still used 4-blade steel/alloy props... so will it be Hartzell again ?


You are just to fast:
More information on the aircraft's specification will be released in early 2020, the company says.

Today they have just started, the three partners have just signed a "memorandum of understanding"; so next will be the contracts, than they will start to employ the first designers, engineers and workers in Leipzig and Oberpfaffenhofen (250 and 100), build the first facilities e.g.
So, step one was today, than comes step two......and you are asking already for step 100... :hissyfit:

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