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qf789
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Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:34 am

Welcome to Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019. Please continue to add your comments below

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1430403
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Ishrion
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:39 am

...and for Australia, American Airlines should be announcing its Oceania routes this month.

I'm assuming there will be Qantas changes as well...

Rumored LAX-MEL replacing some Qantas frequencies as some people have said?

LAX-BNE?

MEL-DFW on QF?

Additionally, United has upgauged SFO-SYD to a 77W from a 789... https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:50 am

Ishrion wrote:
...and for Australia, American Airlines should be announcing its Oceania routes this month.

I'm assuming there will be Qantas changes as well...

Rumored LAX-MEL replacing some Qantas frequencies as some people have said?

LAX-BNE?

MEL-DFW on QF?

Additionally, United has upgauged SFO-SYD to a 77W from a 789... https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/


TBH I can see LAX-MEL only of those replacing the second QF flight year round with seasonal variation in frequency initially 3-5 weekly would be my pick. I just don’t think QF have enough 789s coming and think they will wait for Project sunrise for DFW-MEL. BNE is getting SFO/ORD services in 2020 which represents a reasonable increase to the US for now imo.
 
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SeaEagle8
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:00 am

Don’t forget the QF BNE-SFO/ORD flights are also replacing some of the LAX flights so it’s really only an additional 4 flights per week.
NSW based avgeek
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:14 am

Qantas 789 VH-ZNI on the flightline at PAE (21 Sep)

Image

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/11 ... 56865?s=20
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moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:50 am

And from elsewhere, new seatmap for refurbed A380 VH-OQK
https://www.qantas.com/content/dam/qant ... PY341Y.pdf
(Note the PE seats are not shown in green as per the key)

Unlike the one posted some months ago this shows Door 3R has been replaced by two windows although still looks like some extra panels. Should be some view for 38/39K
As well as the extra toilet behind 40J/K

This aircraft is expected to operate QF2 later today.
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:52 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
...and for Australia, American Airlines should be announcing its Oceania routes this month.

I'm assuming there will be Qantas changes as well...

Rumored LAX-MEL replacing some Qantas frequencies as some people have said?

LAX-BNE?

MEL-DFW on QF?

Additionally, United has upgauged SFO-SYD to a 77W from a 789... https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/


TBH I can see LAX-MEL only of those replacing the second QF flight year round with seasonal variation in frequency initially 3-5 weekly would be my pick. I just don’t think QF have enough 789s coming and think they will wait for Project sunrise for DFW-MEL. BNE is getting SFO/ORD services in 2020 which represents a reasonable increase to the US for now imo.


I was thinking that the 789's based out of MEL will still need to somehow rotate and operate to LHR, the current routing is LHR-PER-MEL-LAX/SFO-MEL-PER-LHR. So we may see an increase in frequency to SFO, or the LAX flight simply stays and AA launches 3-5 weekly flights to supplement, increasing to daily during the summer peak? QF could just surprise and and open MEL-SEA 3 times a week.
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patrickjp93
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
...and for Australia, American Airlines should be announcing its Oceania routes this month.

I'm assuming there will be Qantas changes as well...

Rumored LAX-MEL replacing some Qantas frequencies as some people have said?

LAX-BNE?

MEL-DFW on QF?

Additionally, United has upgauged SFO-SYD to a 77W from a 789... https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/


I can see AA taking over QF55/56, or the evening BNE/LAX run. BNE-ORD will really steal more capacity from the Sydney and Melbourne to LAX flights than it will from the existing BNE-LAX capacity.

SYD/MEL-SEA would also be a nice use of their 789s. Though honestly I'd prefer the A350 from DL on that long a flight.
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:20 pm

Haven’t flown QF domestic J on the 737 in about a year and was surprised to see I had no pre-takeoff drink (only a plastic bottle of water) and no salad with the iconic QF dressing on my MEL-OOL service yesterday. Is this now the norm?
 
patrickjp93
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:29 pm

ben175 wrote:
Haven’t flown QF domestic J on the 737 in about a year and was surprised to see I had no pre-takeoff drink (only a plastic bottle of water) and no salad with the iconic QF dressing on my MEL-OOL service yesterday. Is this now the norm?


You don't get that service except between the capitals or flying international, period.
 
VHZNE
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:36 pm

Photos and info of the new A380 cabin post reconfig:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... the-skies/
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:55 pm

patrickjp93 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
...and for Australia, American Airlines should be announcing its Oceania routes this month.

I'm assuming there will be Qantas changes as well...

Rumored LAX-MEL replacing some Qantas frequencies as some people have said?

LAX-BNE?

MEL-DFW on QF?

Additionally, United has upgauged SFO-SYD to a 77W from a 789... https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-changes/


I can see AA taking over QF55/56, or the evening BNE/LAX run. BNE-ORD will really steal more capacity from the Sydney and Melbourne to LAX flights than it will from the existing BNE-LAX capacity.

SYD/MEL-SEA would also be a nice use of their 789s. Though honestly I'd prefer the A350 from DL on that long a flight.


BNE generally has a lower base of high yielding traffic than SYD or MEL. Keeping the extra LAX flights via AA is very unlikely IMO.

QF has "right sized" the BNE-LAX market by directing any extra connection traffic to SFO or ORD, while at the same time opening up new connection options into the AS and AA hubs at both ports respectively.

An increase of 4 flights per week on smaller aircraft from BNE to the USA in general is reasonable for a city of BNE's size, without diluting yields imo.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:07 am

VHZNE wrote:
Photos and info of the new A380 cabin post reconfig:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... the-skies/


I much prefer the red seats in Economy. The green and orange never really worked IMHO. Several years ago I asked on this thread why they had chosen those colours, and someone said they had used the colours of the Australian landscape. After being told that I could sort of see the relevance, but without that background knowledge they just didn't work IMHO. I thought that they always looked out of place and gaudy as they were fairly distinct colours that had no obvious relevance to the Qantas brand.
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:27 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
VHZNE wrote:
Photos and info of the new A380 cabin post reconfig:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... the-skies/


I much prefer the red seats in Economy. The green and orange never really worked IMHO. Several years ago I asked on this thread why they had chosen those colours, and someone said they had used the colours of the Australian landscape. After being told that I could sort of see the relevance, but without that background knowledge they just didn't work IMHO. I thought that they always looked out of place and gaudy as they were fairly distinct colours that had no obvious relevance to the Qantas brand.


Looks great! Economy looks much better, darker wood grain in premium and business is an improvement and although a little random the woodgrain light feature on the bulkhead softens the cabin. Bar/lounge looks more practical than I expected with the more open stair design. First was always a light refresh, but hard to tell the increase in screen size from the pictures
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:39 am

VA's J pax will no longer have complimentary access to the domestic/short haul international Economy BoB menu. Charges for items from the BoB menu for J pax begins from October 9.

Executive Traveller wrote:
The airline says the move “is due to the high levels of retail items being supplied free of charge, impacting revenue opportunities which exceeds $780,000 in annual lost revenue.”

“Retail items will be available for purchase, should the guest prefer additional options. Retail menus will be loaded in business class seat pockets and crew should introduce the retail menu when taking meal orders after take-off.”



https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... oard-meals
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:43 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
VHZNE wrote:
Photos and info of the new A380 cabin post reconfig:

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... the-skies/


I much prefer the red seats in Economy. The green and orange never really worked IMHO. Several years ago I asked on this thread why they had chosen those colours, and someone said they had used the colours of the Australian landscape. After being told that I could sort of see the relevance, but without that background knowledge they just didn't work IMHO. I thought that they always looked out of place and gaudy as they were fairly distinct colours that had no obvious relevance to the Qantas brand.


Looks great! Economy looks much better, darker wood grain in premium and business is an improvement and although a little random the woodgrain light feature on the bulkhead softens the cabin. Bar/lounge looks more practical than I expected with the more open stair design. First was always a light refresh, but hard to tell the increase in screen size from the pictures
 
Gangurru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:05 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
I much prefer the red seats in Economy. The green and orange never really worked IMHO. Several years ago I asked on this thread why they had chosen those colours, and someone said they had used the colours of the Australian landscape.


I remember that when the layout was revealed,
Marc Newsome spoke of evoking the glamour of flying in times past.

I note the colour pallete and allocation in the A380 cabins matched the 1970s 747 economy layout. To quote Muriel's Wedding "What a coincidence."
 
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allrite
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:40 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
I much prefer the red seats in Economy. The green and orange never really worked IMHO. Several years ago I asked on this thread why they had chosen those colours, and someone said they had used the colours of the Australian landscape. After being told that I could sort of see the relevance, but without that background knowledge they just didn't work IMHO. I thought that they always looked out of place and gaudy as they were fairly distinct colours that had no obvious relevance to the Qantas brand.


I'll miss the green seats, which are the only ones I flown in on the A380 (one may have become a little brown thanks to a baby with gastro). Initially I also doubted the colours (and was quoted in the Australian about it via this site!), but when I saw them in person I thought it actually works. The red is rather dark.
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zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:19 am

SCFlyer wrote:
VA's J pax will no longer have complimentary access to the domestic/short haul international Economy BoB menu. Charges for items from the BoB menu for J pax begins from October 9.

Executive Traveller wrote:
The airline says the move “is due to the high levels of retail items being supplied free of charge, impacting revenue opportunities which exceeds $780,000 in annual lost revenue.”

“Retail items will be available for purchase, should the guest prefer additional options. Retail menus will be loaded in business class seat pockets and crew should introduce the retail menu when taking meal orders after take-off.”



https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... oard-meals


So looking at in it's:
September - IFE Tablet gone
October - BoB Menu is now charged for (and by the sounds of it the idea is to encourage passengers to purchase).

What will November and Decembers product enhancement be?

I strongly disagree with the crew being told to introduce the retail menu to the J passengers as they are taking there meal orders.... when did VA rebrand as RyanAir Australia?
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:06 am

zkncj wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
VA's J pax will no longer have complimentary access to the domestic/short haul international Economy BoB menu. Charges for items from the BoB menu for J pax begins from October 9.

Executive Traveller wrote:
The airline says the move “is due to the high levels of retail items being supplied free of charge, impacting revenue opportunities which exceeds $780,000 in annual lost revenue.”

“Retail items will be available for purchase, should the guest prefer additional options. Retail menus will be loaded in business class seat pockets and crew should introduce the retail menu when taking meal orders after take-off.”



https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... oard-meals


So looking at in it's:
September - IFE Tablet gone
October - BoB Menu is now charged for (and by the sounds of it the idea is to encourage passengers to purchase).



What will November and Decembers product enhancement be?

I strongly disagree with the crew being told to introduce the retail menu to the J passengers as they are taking there meal orders.... when did VA rebrand as RyanAir Australia?


I gotta admit VA has been only business class I have flown where I have got off the plane after hungry. So probably if they did a better meal half the time customers wouldn't be asking for the BoB menu...
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:13 am

waoz1 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
VA's J pax will no longer have complimentary access to the domestic/short haul international Economy BoB menu. Charges for items from the BoB menu for J pax begins from October 9.




https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... oard-meals


So looking at in it's:
September - IFE Tablet gone
October - BoB Menu is now charged for (and by the sounds of it the idea is to encourage passengers to purchase).



What will November and Decembers product enhancement be?

I strongly disagree with the crew being told to introduce the retail menu to the J passengers as they are taking there meal orders.... when did VA rebrand as RyanAir Australia?


I gotta admit VA has been only business class I have flown where I have got off the plane after hungry. So probably if they did a better meal half the time customers wouldn't be asking for the BoB menu...


Agreed - they need todo something to set them self apart on there short-haul J menus to make them stand out. It would be great if focused on an decent main that you could pre-select online. (Surely that would save them money, from an wastage point)
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:10 am

zkncj wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

So looking at in it's:
September - IFE Tablet gone
October - BoB Menu is now charged for (and by the sounds of it the idea is to encourage passengers to purchase).



What will November and Decembers product enhancement be?

I strongly disagree with the crew being told to introduce the retail menu to the J passengers as they are taking there meal orders.... when did VA rebrand as RyanAir Australia?


I gotta admit VA has been only business class I have flown where I have got off the plane after hungry. So probably if they did a better meal half the time customers wouldn't be asking for the BoB menu...


Agreed - they need todo something to set them self apart on there short-haul J menus to make them stand out. It would be great if focused on an decent main that you could pre-select online. (Surely that would save them money, from an wastage point)

It would only save wastage if everyone in J had to pre-order. which is unlikely.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:52 pm

We’re still quite some time away before pre-ordering will be “a thing” on domestic QF/VA. A significant amount of bookings on trunk routes are made within 24-72 hours and are more prone to cancellation/delays. Too much can go wrong. Plus having a system where people can pick up a meal at the gate would also be unworkable.
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a320fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:27 pm

https://australianaviation.com.au/2019/ ... ised-atsb/

Tigerair 737 departed from Sydney with the pack switches in the off position, causing the cabin altitude warning to go off when climbing through 13500ft.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:41 am

HBA now has new owners: Queensland Investment Corporation and Royal Schiphol Group now have 70% control following their purchase of not only Macquarie Infrastructure's entire majority stake but also some of TasPlan's, who will maintain 30% control, existing minority stake.

Free article at: https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-02/tas-news-brief-2-oct/11564808?pfmredir=sm

I wonder if more HBA-BNE services will ensue given the new owners have stakes in BNE?
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:15 am

There have been two submissions to the IASC (submissions close later today) on the Japan case, both supportive of the VA application - one from Brisbane Airport Corporation (BAC), and the other from a resident of Tokyo. The BAC submission has extensive trade and tourism information attached to it, and adds weight to VA's case against the reasonable capability criterion.

https://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/index.aspx#Jap1
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:08 am

Further to my last post (which I can't edit for some reason), Tourism Australia has also made a submission in support of VA.
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:24 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
the other from a resident of Tokyo.


“The Japanese love Virgin brands” - well say no more lol.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:40 am

qf002 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
the other from a resident of Tokyo.


“The Japanese love Virgin brands” - well say no more lol.


I had a laugh at that part - not sure that speaks very directly to any of the criteria in the Policy Statement :D
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:53 am

It’ll be interesting to see if Destination NSW and Visit Victoria, SACL and Melbourne Airport come out in support of QF.
I'm that bad type.
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:02 am

qf002 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
the other from a resident of Tokyo.


“The Japanese love Virgin brands” - well say no more lol.


If anything VA should be excited about is the massive NH FFP base. No once cares about the Virgin name just as they don't care about Sony anymore.
 
brucetiki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:51 am

waoz1 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
VA's J pax will no longer have complimentary access to the domestic/short haul international Economy BoB menu. Charges for items from the BoB menu for J pax begins from October 9.




https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... oard-meals


So looking at in it's:
September - IFE Tablet gone
October - BoB Menu is now charged for (and by the sounds of it the idea is to encourage passengers to purchase).



What will November and Decembers product enhancement be?

I strongly disagree with the crew being told to introduce the retail menu to the J passengers as they are taking there meal orders.... when did VA rebrand as RyanAir Australia?


I gotta admit VA has been only business class I have flown where I have got off the plane after hungry. So probably if they did a better meal half the time customers wouldn't be asking for the BoB menu...


Might help if crew also made an effort to feed their business class passengers. Last time I flew business with VA they nearly forgot to give me my meal
 
Hornberger
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:53 am

getluv wrote:
It’ll be interesting to see if Destination NSW and Visit Victoria, SACL and Melbourne Airport come out in support of QF.

Why would Visit Victoria or Melbourne Airport support QF when there is anything in it for them?

QF isn't offering increased capacity or addition frequencies. There is no marginal revenue in it for Melbourne Airport, and there are no additional seats to be sold to Japanese tourist for Visit Victoria.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:23 am

The first SilkAir 737MAX positioned to ASP today

https://australianaviation.com.au/2019/ ... m-storage/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:30 am

VARA F100 in SkyWest livery is currently in the paint shop being repainted into Virgin livery
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getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:05 am

Hornberger wrote:
getluv wrote:
It’ll be interesting to see if Destination NSW and Visit Victoria, SACL and Melbourne Airport come out in support of QF.

Why would Visit Victoria or Melbourne Airport support QF when there is anything in it for them?

QF isn't offering increased capacity or addition frequencies. There is no marginal revenue in it for Melbourne Airport, and there are no additional seats to be sold to Japanese tourist for Visit Victoria.


Err. Links to the rest of Japan. Exactly the same point Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia supporting VA’s application. VA is already allowed to fly NRT and open additional capacity to Japan and provide competition. It chooses not to.
I'm that bad type.
 
FL420FT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:04 am

It seems VH-OQK had seem teething issues on the way out.

As mentioned in the September thread, VH-OQK was suppose to turn around and operate today (02Oct) QF1.

VH-OQC is operating QF1 today. The rumour is VH-OQK had issues wit the IFE on the inbound QF2. It should be operational tomorrow for tomorrow's QF1
 
Hornberger
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:03 am

getluv wrote:
Hornberger wrote:
getluv wrote:
It’ll be interesting to see if Destination NSW and Visit Victoria, SACL and Melbourne Airport come out in support of QF.

Why would Visit Victoria or Melbourne Airport support QF when there is anything in it for them?

QF isn't offering increased capacity or addition frequencies. There is no marginal revenue in it for Melbourne Airport, and there are no additional seats to be sold to Japanese tourist for Visit Victoria.


Err. Links to the rest of Japan. Exactly the same point Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia supporting VA’s application. VA is already allowed to fly NRT and open additional capacity to Japan and provide competition. It chooses not to.

VA's application represent a new flight - that represents new landing fees for Brisbane Airport and 300 odd new daily seat that could potentially be sold to Japanese tourists. VA would be providing something of value to Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia that incentives them to support VA. That VA has chosen not start a flight from Brisbane to NRT is entirely the point. Giving the slot VA will cause VA to start a brand new route, which otherwise would not occur.

If QF was promising to resume a 3 weekly Jetstar flight from Melbourne to Naritia, or add seasonal flights to Osaka or Sapporo, then they would provide something of value to Melbourne Airport and Visit Victoria but they are not. It makes no sense for those entities to spend time and effort, for something that only really benefits QF's commercial interest (and no one else).
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:09 am

Hornberger wrote:
getluv wrote:
Hornberger wrote:
Why would Visit Victoria or Melbourne Airport support QF when there is anything in it for them?

QF isn't offering increased capacity or addition frequencies. There is no marginal revenue in it for Melbourne Airport, and there are no additional seats to be sold to Japanese tourist for Visit Victoria.


Err. Links to the rest of Japan. Exactly the same point Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia supporting VA’s application. VA is already allowed to fly NRT and open additional capacity to Japan and provide competition. It chooses not to.

VA's application represent a new flight - that represents new landing fees for Brisbane Airport and 300 odd new daily seat that could potentially be sold to Japanese tourists. VA would be providing something of value to Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia that incentives them to support VA. That VA has chosen not start a flight from Brisbane to NRT is entirely the point. Giving the slot VA will cause VA to start a brand new route, which otherwise would not occur.

If QF was promising to resume a 3 weekly Jetstar flight from Melbourne to Naritia, or add seasonal flights to Osaka or Sapporo, then they would provide something of value to Melbourne Airport and Visit Victoria but they are not. It makes no sense for those entities to spend time and effort, for something that only really benefits QF's commercial interest (and no one else).


BNE Airport can achieve extra landing fees, QLD and Australia can get more Japanese tourists by VA starting BNE-NRT. There is no extra competition being created as VA are partnering with NH.

Like BNE-HND, there is no MEL-HND. Isn’t commercial interests the heart of what everyone is trying to do here.
I'm that bad type.
 
Hornberger
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:18 am

getluv wrote:
Hornberger wrote:
getluv wrote:

Err. Links to the rest of Japan. Exactly the same point Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia supporting VA’s application. VA is already allowed to fly NRT and open additional capacity to Japan and provide competition. It chooses not to.

VA's application represent a new flight - that represents new landing fees for Brisbane Airport and 300 odd new daily seat that could potentially be sold to Japanese tourists. VA would be providing something of value to Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia that incentives them to support VA. That VA has chosen not start a flight from Brisbane to NRT is entirely the point. Giving the slot VA will cause VA to start a brand new route, which otherwise would not occur.

If QF was promising to resume a 3 weekly Jetstar flight from Melbourne to Naritia, or add seasonal flights to Osaka or Sapporo, then they would provide something of value to Melbourne Airport and Visit Victoria but they are not. It makes no sense for those entities to spend time and effort, for something that only really benefits QF's commercial interest (and no one else).


BNE Airport can achieve extra landing fees, QLD and Australia can get more Japanese tourists by VA starting BNE-NRT. Like BNE-HND, there is no MEL-HND.

As you said, VA has always had the option of starting a flight from BNE-NRT yet they haven't. Why do you think VA would start a BNE-NRT flight if they are not granted the HND slot? What has changed now to make them want to start that flight, compared to two months ago before the HND slot was potentially available?

VA is promising to do something that (they claim) wouldn't otherwise be willing to do.
QF is promising to keep doing exactly what they are already doing.

There is currently 1 daily Brisbane - Tokyo flight - if VA is granted the slot there will now be 2 daily Brisbane - Tokyo flights.
There is currently 2 daily Melbourne - Tokyo flight - if QF is granted the slot there will still be 2 daily Melbourne - Tokyo flights.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:34 am

Hornberger wrote:
getluv wrote:
Hornberger wrote:
VA's application represent a new flight - that represents new landing fees for Brisbane Airport and 300 odd new daily seat that could potentially be sold to Japanese tourists. VA would be providing something of value to Brisbane Airport and Tourism Australia that incentives them to support VA. That VA has chosen not start a flight from Brisbane to NRT is entirely the point. Giving the slot VA will cause VA to start a brand new route, which otherwise would not occur.

If QF was promising to resume a 3 weekly Jetstar flight from Melbourne to Naritia, or add seasonal flights to Osaka or Sapporo, then they would provide something of value to Melbourne Airport and Visit Victoria but they are not. It makes no sense for those entities to spend time and effort, for something that only really benefits QF's commercial interest (and no one else).


BNE Airport can achieve extra landing fees, QLD and Australia can get more Japanese tourists by VA starting BNE-NRT. Like BNE-HND, there is no MEL-HND.

As you said, VA has always had the option of starting a flight from BNE-NRT yet they haven't. Why do you think VA would start a BNE-NRT flight if they are not granted the HND slot? What has changed now to make them want to start that flight, compared to two months ago before the HND slot was potentially available?

VA is promising to do something that (they claim) wouldn't otherwise be willing to do.
QF is promising to keep doing exactly what they are already doing.

There is currently 1 daily Brisbane - Tokyo flight - if VA is granted the slot there will now be 2 daily Brisbane - Tokyo flights.
There is currently 2 daily Melbourne - Tokyo flight - if QF is granted the slot there will still be 2 daily Melbourne - Tokyo flights.


But your point was that BNE-HND is a new route. MEL-HND is also a new route. Many of VA’s own claims and its supporting responses can be deemed null and void by the fact it can commence services to NRT. From my point of view, and probably what QF is going to argue, is that the two are not mutually exclusive.

From what another poster has pointed out in the September thread and VA’s own application, is that VA were having discussions about services to Japan. Considering HND wasn’t in play up until five weeks ago, one would assume NRT was the option VA were looking at.

QF have promised an additional SYD-HND flight in addition to moving MEL-NRT to HND. Flexibility in its fleet so that planes can spend less time on the ground. I.e. more tourists to Australia.

I anticipate IASC will side with VA only on the basis there is extra “competition”. Interesting that the ACCC haven’t put in a submission in support of VA.
Last edited by getluv on Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pcoder
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:38 am

In the end of the day QF/JL have most of the market. It highly likely (I'd say 90%) that VA will get the second slot as it will be better for competition. Even if VA does have difficulties, the slot can always be reallocated.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:42 am

90% of the TOTAL Australia-Japan market that QF and JL have built up over time. Not overnight. VA could have added competition years ago. It could have bid for the current HND slot, again it chose not to.

Keep in mind QF does not control 90% of the HND-Australia market.
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Hornberger
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:45 am

getluv wrote:
But your point was that BNE-HND is a new route. MEL-HND is also a new route.

QA flying Melbourne - Tokyo is not a new route in an meaningful way.
VA flying Brisbane - Tokyo is a new route.

Going back to my original question -
Why does Melbourne Airport care if QA have a MEL - HND flight instead of MEL - NAR? Same aircraft type making the same number of flights.
Why does Visit Victoria care if QA have a MEL - HND flight instead of MEL - NAR? Same number of seats, with the same number of seats and connecting the same city pair.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:51 am

Hornberger wrote:
getluv wrote:
But your point was that BNE-HND is a new route. MEL-HND is also a new route.

QA flying Melbourne - Tokyo is not a new route in an meaningful way.
VA flying Brisbane - Tokyo is a new route.

Going back to my original question -
Why does Melbourne Airport care if QA have a MEL - HND flight instead of MEL - NAR? Same aircraft type making the same number of flights.
Why does Visit Victoria care if QA have a MEL - HND flight instead of MEL - NAR? Same number of seats, with the same number of seats and connecting the same city pair.


A Meaningful way? Is this a joke?

Anyway, I’ve already responded to your comments re: Melbourne Airport and Visit Victoria.

We’re done.
Last edited by getluv on Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hornberger
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:59 am

getluv wrote:
Meaningful way? Is this a joke?

Anyway, I’ve already responded to your comments re: Melbourne Airport and Visit Victoria.

We’re done.

Except you haven't respond to the question at all - all your response are about VA and BNE - HND vs BNE - NRT. There is nothing in your response the explain why it would be in the Victorian entities interest to support QF being granted both HND slots.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:07 am

In a meaningful way, I have responded to your question in the same way you can’t really give me a better answer as for why BAC, Tourism QLD and TA’s can’t get the same result from VA starting BNE-NRT.

FYI, QF’s application details the benefits to the Victorian economy and businesses.
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Hornberger
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:30 am

getluv wrote:
In a meaningful way, I have responded to your question in the same way you can’t really give me a better answer as for why BAC, Tourism QLD and TA’s can’t get the same result from VA starting BNE-NRT.

An extra daily flight is more landing fees for Brisbane Airport. An extra daily flight is an extra ~100,000 p.a. capacity between Brisbane and Tokyo that can sold to Japanese tourist. The benefit for Brisbane Airport, Tourism Australia and the state of Queensland is pretty straight forward.

You can have argument about whether VA will start a BNE-NRT flight anyway and therefore you don't to give them the HND. The simple fact is there is currently 1 daily flight between Brisbane and Tokyo and VA is promising that they will be two.


getluv wrote:
FYI, QF’s application details the benefits to the Victorian economy and businesses.

How? Why?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:48 pm

Actually, MEL is growing faster and I think you'll find those large BNE tech company office buildings are even larger in SYD/MEL.
https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected] ... se12017-18.

Most ADL-USA pax travel via MEL. I can't see AA in BNE, but I can see them taking over some of the additional QF MEL-LAX flights and operating them daily. I would be hard pressed to put forward a BNE-SEA business case before SYD-SEA is ever launched.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2019

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:12 pm

qf789 wrote:
VARA F100 in SkyWest livery is currently in the paint shop being repainted into Virgin livery


Is this the last one?

When was the last time VA had a complete fleet in the same livery, back when it was Virgin Blue?
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