BN747
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Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:05 am

Florida man shot and killed son-in-law in case of mistaken identity, sheriff says
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-man- ... -231745155.

Poor dude, a true case of Nice Guy finishing last.

America...what a country!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:25 am

dead link

anyway its what surprise likers asking for
Last edited by Armadillo1 on Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:26 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
dead link


Here you go:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... 859041002/
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:03 am

That's ridiculous, he should at least be charged with manslaughter. Bergan was also a father, so the armed idiot killed his grandsons dad, bet he's not going to be on the christmas card mailing list anymore.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:22 am

So what they're saying is, it's OK to shoot someone dead to finish an argument in Florida and if you get the wrong 'man', it matters even less.
But guns don't kill people, utter muppets :roll:
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:51 am

Well...that’s what happens when you bang on someone’s door at 11:30pm and then jump out of the bushes... sometimes a little common sense will go a long way.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:52 am

Florida man...

I don't need to read any further.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:53 am

ChrisKen wrote:
So what they're saying is, it's OK to shoot someone dead to finish an argument in Florida and if you get the wrong 'man', it matters even less.
But guns don't kill people, utter muppets :roll:


I’ve never seen a gun kill someone without being acted upon... they also never stated that it was okay to shoot someone to finish an argument. If you would have read the news report you would see that he was shot after jumping out of the bushes at 11:30pm after just banging on the guys door. It’s a sad story but one that could have been avoided had the recently deceased used some sort of common sense.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:24 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
So what they're saying is, it's OK to shoot someone dead to finish an argument in Florida and if you get the wrong 'man', it matters even less.
But guns don't kill people, utter muppets :roll:


I’ve never seen a gun kill someone without being acted upon... they also never stated that it was okay to shoot someone to finish an argument. If you would have read the news report you would see that he was shot after jumping out of the bushes at 11:30pm after just banging on the guys door. It’s a sad story but one that could have been avoided had the recently deceased used some sort of common sense.

Ah, it's all the guy who got shot fault. Gotcha.

As I said, utter muppets.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:12 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
So what they're saying is, it's OK to shoot someone dead to finish an argument in Florida and if you get the wrong 'man', it matters even less.
But guns don't kill people, utter muppets :roll:


I’ve never seen a gun kill someone without being acted upon... they also never stated that it was okay to shoot someone to finish an argument. If you would have read the news report you would see that he was shot after jumping out of the bushes at 11:30pm after just banging on the guys door. It’s a sad story but one that could have been avoided had the recently deceased used some sort of common sense.


I get all that but he should still be tried for manslaughter. It's like a hunter accidentally shooting a person instead of a dear, they get tired and convicted of manslaughter, you should properly identify who the fuck you're shooting at before you pull the trigger.

At the very least this idiot should have his guns taken away and banned from gun ownership for life.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:44 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Ah, it's all the guy who got shot fault. Gotcha.

As I said, utter muppets.

This will be one instance where I will agree with LittleSprocket as far as common sense is concerned. If I were to surprise anyone I'd do it in another fashion, no need to startle someone.

Now, I don't agree with the "no charges" resolution because for the story, it was clear that the guy was armed and intended to shoot someone (his family member), so at the very least, manslaughter charges should have been filed.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Aesma
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:48 pm

Tragic story.

I question the reasoning of a man making a childish joke to his older father-in-law though. I can't really imagine the joke going over too well, even without any gun involved. If he knew the guy, he should have anticipated something like that.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:07 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Ah, it's all the guy who got shot fault. Gotcha.

As I said, utter muppets.

This will be one instance where I will agree with LittleSprocket as far as common sense is concerned. If I were to surprise anyone I'd do it in another fashion, no need to startle someone.

Now, I don't agree with the "no charges" resolution because for the story, it was clear that the guy was armed and intended to shoot someone (his family member), so at the very least, manslaughter charges should have been filed.


Right, because it's perfectly normal to answer the door, with your firearm ready and to go shooting the first thing that moves, without identifying anyone or a real threat in a supposedly civilised country. Remember, the dead guy's version of events can't be told.
And its perfectly normal to expect that you'll be shot knocking on someone's door.
You, the article and law enforcement suggest that's normal.
I would suggest something is a tad wrong with that picture and something awfully wrong with a society where it holds true.

Thoughts&prayers, all good.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:21 pm

Another responsible gun owner.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:26 pm

The problem with all of these incidents, is that the other party/witness is dead, so we only have one side of the story. The old man had a fight earlier in the day with another relative, so he was coming to the door thinking it was the previous relative, locked and loaded. Pretty clear he had murderous thoughts or full intentions to maim. There’s more to this “story”....but police won’t bother, they’ve checked the appropriate box.


https://www.pnj.com/story/news/crime/20 ... 846781002/
 
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seb146
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:38 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
LittleSprocket wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
So what they're saying is, it's OK to shoot someone dead to finish an argument in Florida and if you get the wrong 'man', it matters even less.
But guns don't kill people, utter muppets :roll:


I’ve never seen a gun kill someone without being acted upon... they also never stated that it was okay to shoot someone to finish an argument. If you would have read the news report you would see that he was shot after jumping out of the bushes at 11:30pm after just banging on the guys door. It’s a sad story but one that could have been avoided had the recently deceased used some sort of common sense.


I get all that but he should still be tried for manslaughter. It's like a hunter accidentally shooting a person instead of a dear, they get tired and convicted of manslaughter, you should properly identify who the fuck you're shooting at before you pull the trigger.

At the very least this idiot should have his guns taken away and banned from gun ownership for life.


It is hunting season here in the Pacific Northwest and we have had at least one "I thought my friend was a deer" death. No charges will be filed, of course, because "it was a horrible accident".

The son-in-law went about it the wrong way but the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality is really getting old. The kid was not even inside the house.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:47 pm

Aesma wrote:
Tragic story.

I question the reasoning of a man making a childish joke to his older father-in-law though. I can't really imagine the joke going over too well, even without any gun involved. If he knew the guy, he should have anticipated something like that.


It was the man’s 61st birthday. I hope no one ever, anywhere, throws a surprise birthday party in Floridah, or the entire party getting gunned down will be written off as “tragic, freak, accident” that seems to happen pretty regularly in the USA.

Thoughts and prayers.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:06 pm

A surprise visit is fine, don't get me wrong. And a "surprise !!!!" with a birthday banner etc., fine. But banging on the door, then getting out of bushes growling, that seems like you're trying to instill fear, not surprise.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seb146
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:28 pm

Aesma wrote:
A surprise visit is fine, don't get me wrong. And a "surprise !!!!" with a birthday banner etc., fine. But banging on the door, then getting out of bushes growling, that seems like you're trying to instill fear, not surprise.


That growling part struck me as odd. Only one person can confirm that. Maybe the father-in-law was trying to close his Growlr app? Maybe the neighbor's dog knew someone was there and was growling? That part just is not sitting right with me.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:59 pm

Aesma wrote:
A surprise visit is fine, don't get me wrong. And a "surprise !!!!" with a birthday banner etc., fine. But banging on the door, then getting out of bushes growling, that seems like you're trying to instill fear, not surprise.


Again, that’s what the murderer claims. Unfortunately, the only other witness to the incident is dead.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:26 pm

First law of gun control—know what you’re target is and what’s behind it. Learned that at age 10. Irresponsible gun handling, manslaughter 1. I’d hang him, but that’s kinda un-PC

GF
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:00 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Right, because it's perfectly normal to answer the door, with your firearm ready and to go shooting the first thing that moves, without identifying anyone or a real threat in a supposedly civilised country.
If you can open a door, have someone jump out of the bushes, and recognize the face before having any reaction, you are a super human. Otherwise, odds are you will be startled and attempt to defend yourself (put your arms up, scream, attack the object, jump back...reactions are limitless).

What we're talking about here is not the absolution of the shooter. I think we're both in agreement that the shooter should face charges because no one in their right mind would answer a door with a gun in hand (unless they feared for their safety). What we're talking about here is common sense: a banner saying "surprise" would have probably been as effective. Who in their right mind goes to a relatives house in the middle of the night, bangs on the door, and jumps out the bushes? Maybe during the day, that may not be as startling. But during the night?

This is just an unfortunate series of events.

ChrisKen wrote:
And its perfectly normal to expect that you'll be shot knocking on someone's door.
You, the article and law enforcement suggest that's normal.
I would suggest something is a tad wrong with that picture and something awfully wrong with a society where it holds true.

And you seem to suggest that it's perfectly normal to expect unsolicited door knocks (or door bangs) late at night, answer a door and have people jump out of bushes, and have superhuman reflexes to recognize whether someone is a threat or not before being startled.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:27 pm

I am curious as to whether or not the homeowner has had issues with break ins and/or crime in his neighborhood?
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:04 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
And you seem to suggest that it's perfectly normal to expect unsolicited door knocks (or door bangs) late at night, answer a door and have people jump out of bushes, and have superhuman reflexes to recognize whether someone is a threat or not before being startled.

Unsolicited knocks are perfectly normal. Opening the door armed and ready to shoot, is not. (Or are you saying in the time he's managed to pull out his weapon, make ready, remove any safety, aim and fire, he's not been able to identify it's bob, saying "surprise" (As someone trained in close quarters use of firearms, I find this highly unlikely). Floridan man's "bang", is another's normal knock. It's not like he has any reason to embellish and exaggerate his story somewhat, is it? . His story is very flaky, luckily his victim can't give their version of events.

Quite frankly at the very least he should be up for whatever version of unlawful killing you please as a bare minimum. He should also be being charged with the attempted murder of his other relative since he's clearly arrived armed and primed to shoot on the assumption (by his own admission) it's the one he had an argument with earlier that evening. That is premeditation and intent. But then again, I'm fortunate to reside in a country that doesn't settle family spats with freely available firearms, answer doors with firearms ready to go or where it's considered normal to do so. So wtf do I know.

If he hadn't had the gun to start with.......
If he'd been properly regulated and trained in it's use.......
If he didn't live a culture where it's normal to settle scores with firearms.....
If he lived in a country where there are actually consequences for using them inappropriately.....
Thoughts&Prayers, muppets.
Last edited by ChrisKen on Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:05 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
I am curious as to whether or not the homeowner has had issues with break ins and/or crime in his neighborhood?

Still no reason to come out firing without identifying the threat, if indeed there was any.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:37 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
Aesma wrote:
A surprise visit is fine, don't get me wrong. And a "surprise !!!!" with a birthday banner etc., fine. But banging on the door, then getting out of bushes growling, that seems like you're trying to instill fear, not surprise.


Again, that’s what the murderer claims. Unfortunately, the only other witness to the incident is dead.


Indeed. I guess his attitude convinced the authorities.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
evgenka
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:47 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
First law of gun control—know what you’re target is and what’s behind it. Learned that at age 10. Irresponsible gun handling, manslaughter 1. I’d hang him, but that’s kinda un-PC

GF


Yes you are right. There have been a lot of murders in recent years.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:03 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
First law of gun control—know what you’re target is and what’s behind it. Learned that at age 10. Irresponsible gun handling, manslaughter 1. I’d hang him, but that’s kinda un-PC

GF

Where would gun owners learn that? Sounds like an infringement to me.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:24 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Right, because it's perfectly normal to answer the door, with your firearm ready and to go shooting the first thing that moves, without identifying anyone or a real threat in a supposedly civilised country.
If you can open a door, have someone jump out of the bushes, and recognize the face before having any reaction, you are a super human. Otherwise, odds are you will be startled and attempt to defend yourself (put your arms up, scream, attack the object, jump back...reactions are limitless).

What we're talking about here is not the absolution of the shooter. I think we're both in agreement that the shooter should face charges because no one in their right mind would answer a door with a gun in hand (unless they feared for their safety). What we're talking about here is common sense: a banner saying "surprise" would have probably been as effective. Who in their right mind goes to a relatives house in the middle of the night, bangs on the door, and jumps out the bushes? Maybe during the day, that may not be as startling. But during the night?

This is just an unfortunate series of events.

ChrisKen wrote:
And its perfectly normal to expect that you'll be shot knocking on someone's door.
You, the article and law enforcement suggest that's normal.
I would suggest something is a tad wrong with that picture and something awfully wrong with a society where it holds true.

And you seem to suggest that it's perfectly normal to expect unsolicited door knocks (or door bangs) late at night, answer a door and have people jump out of bushes, and have superhuman reflexes to recognize whether someone is a threat or not before being startled.



It’s not like this guy was a hermit who only had Jehovah’s Witnesses knocking on his door. He had other relatives bang/knock on the door at 9:30 PM, who then stayed for a period of time, then left. An hour or so later, as 11:30 was approaching, his son-in-law bangs/knocks on door. It was this older man’s birthday after all.

The murderer Richard William Dennis or Ricky Billy (3 first names and from Florida should tell you everything you need to know about a person) wasn’t concerned it was a robbery or a would be killer, he thought it was the other relatives coming back. He knowingly armed himself with a loaded weapon fully intending on using it on the relative he thought was at the door. That’s murderous intent.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:32 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
It’s not like this guy was a hermit who only had Jehovah’s Witnesses knocking on his door. He had other relatives bang/knock on the door at 9:30 PM, who then stayed for a period of time, then left. An hour or so later, as 11:30 was approaching, his son-in-law bangs/knocks on door. It was this older man’s birthday after all.

The murderer Richard William Dennis or Ricky Billy (3 first names and from Florida should tell you everything you need to know about a person) wasn’t concerned it was a robbery or a would be killer, he thought it was the other relatives coming back. He knowingly armed himself with a loaded weapon fully intending on using it on the relative he thought was at the door. That’s murderous intent.

Again, I don't disagree with the murderous intent. I don't disagree with the fact that the shooter should not have answered the door armed.

What people here seem to want to justify is that it's OK to jump out from bushes and startle people especially into the night. If the intent is to surprise your in-law, why startle them from bushes? Can't a "Surprise!" banner work? Or how about swinging over the next day at a more reasonable time?

Once again (and for the final time): I don't dispute that the shooter should face charges and that he shouldn't have been answering the door while armed to begin with. But anyone with common sense would look at 11:30pm as an odd time to attempt to surprise a relative, especially in the fashion he did.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
JJJ
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:14 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:

Once again (and for the final time): I don't dispute that the shooter should face charges and that he shouldn't have been answering the door while armed to begin with. But anyone with common sense would look at 11:30pm as an odd time to attempt to surprise a relative, especially in the fashion he did.


The problem with that is that it sounds a lot like pointing out what a girl was wearing the night she was raped.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:56 am

I would like to nominate Mr.Bergan for a 2019 Darwin Award...ringing a door bell at 1130 PM, jumping out of the bushes and lunging at his father-in-law demonstrates a lack of brain power. No charges against the father-in-law please.
 
Redd
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Re: Man Flies from Norway for Surprise Visit..Accidentally Shot and Killed by Father-in-Law

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:15 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
I would like to nominate Mr.Bergan for a 2019 Darwin Award...ringing a door bell at 1130 PM, jumping out of the bushes and lunging at his father-in-law demonstrates a lack of brain power. No charges against the father-in-law please.


Advice for foreigners visiting the United States, don't make any sudden moves around the locals, especially in Florida. Normal human behavior may put your life at risk, don't act in an unusual way, don't surprise people, make sure every meeting is well scheduled and confirm before showing up, or risk of getting killed.

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