BojamDelta
Topic Author
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:25 pm

Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:56 am

Watching FR24 (05:45) and everything seems to be staying in a stack.
Everyone is being sent to Hogs Back, High Wycombe, North London and Biggin Hill areas for stacking.
Any reason for this or just an FR24 blip?

Bo)am
 
BojamDelta
Topic Author
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:25 pm

Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:58 am

The BA216 has just broken away from its loops and seems to be heading in now.
 
f18raider
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:32 am

Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:14 am

It’s the overnight curfew being lifted at Heathrow. No noise between 2300-0600.

https://www.heathrow.com/noise/heathrow ... ht-flights
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:52 am

Indeed Heathrow is closed until 06:00, so it makes sense that planes weren't allowed to land yet. It was too early.

You see this every day, they're all waiting for the airport to open.
 
tallis
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 10:02 pm

Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:02 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Indeed Heathrow is closed until 06:00


Err... it’s actually open 24hrs, there’s just a movement cap before 6am. There are several scheduled arrivals everyday from 04:45.

I’ve known executive jet pilots (for extremely wealthy clients) who’ve been in at all hours of the night.
 
David_itl
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:23 am

Looking at the landing times, I find this:

scheduled arrivals 4am to 4.59am: 6
scheduled arrivals 5am to 5.59am: 11
scheduled arrivals 6am to 6.29am: 12

actual arrivals 4am to 4.59: 10
actual arrivals 5am to 5.59am: 6
actual arrivals 6am to 6.29am: 21

All but 1 arrival scheduled before 6.am arrived before 5.20am, with 47 minutes before the next arrival
 
skipness1E
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:05 am

Hog's Back is a new one..
The four stacks are four VORS, clockwise from the NW, Bovingdon (BNN), Lambourne (LAM), Biggin (BIG) and Ockham (OCK).
Bovingdon is on the forner RAF airfield, Lambourne at North Weald, Biggin on Biggin Hill airfield and Ockham on what was Wilsey, the BAC test airfield for the VC10 and One Eleven.

Never "Bovington", take note America!

Note : If you are not one of the 14 pre 6am scheduled arrivals in the over-night time slot regime, you WILL hold for a post 0600 landing time, so decent tailwinds mean that the stacks are busy some days then steadily empty as 6am approaches.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:42 am

The good old conundrum: the earliest you get to the hold, the earliest you'll get in, but if you get there too early you risk waiting more and burning more fuel than if you got there later.

Long story short, all operators aim to get to the hold between 5:30 and 5:45...
I haven't been there in a while, so that might have moved further left still.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:08 am

I remember flying in from New York once and we were turning, turning, turning for 45 minutes over London. I guess that was why.
 
klwright69
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:38 pm

Lots of flights from the middle east arrive early a.m. So I've had to circle LHR waiting for the airport to open at 6:00.
 
nikeherc
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:39 pm

This is not a new phenomenon. I remember arriving at LHR in 1970 before the curfew was lifted. Looking out the window was quite a sight. It looked like planes were everywhere and going in every direction. I have never experienced anything like it even at ATL or ORD.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
senatorflyer
Posts: 324
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:14 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Indeed Heathrow is closed until 06:00, so it makes sense that planes weren't allowed to land yet. It was too early.

You see this every day, they're all waiting for the airport to open.


Heathrow isn’t closed. It’s open 24h. However, if you are early you are not allowed to land. Very often BA flights from the ME are held at the departure airports simply not to arrive too early.

BA also has a few hundert allocated slots which they could use during those night/early morning hours to get their flights in. But they generally don’t use them unless there is an operational need.
 
TC957
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:11 pm

Won't it be sensible for those too-early arrivals to fly slower, thus burning less fuel en route as well as then saving fuel by not stacking ?
 
as739x
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:11 pm

It's ironic the BBC article came about about the so call Whistleblower saying that BA is tankering planes around, burning extra fuel and adding to air pollution. Yet,dozens of planes circling over London every morning burning fuel while waiting to land for a movement curfew and it's scheduled like this.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
COSPN
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:42 pm

What happened to “saving the planet “lift the curfew and operate round the clock to combat global warming ...
 
evanb
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:30 pm

TC957 wrote:
Won't it be sensible for those too-early arrivals to fly slower, thus burning less fuel en route as well as then saving fuel by not stacking ?


Could be, or hold departure at origin. The challenge can come in at busy departure airports which don't make it as easy to hold departure or when one is flying in a busy airspace/airway which doesn't have as much flexibility. For example, it would be much easier to time your arrival on a CPT-LHR segment than for a JFK-LHR segment.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:53 pm

COSPN wrote:
What happened to “saving the planet “lift the curfew and operate round the clock to combat global warming ...

Sorry but if you know nothing about LHR PLEASE STOP POSTING garbage. No one in the industry wants this, it’s inhumane to operate 24/7 across such a large part of London which is why night flying is restricted. That last statement is on a par with “why don’t wide bodies operate out of LCY?” which graced a recent post.
 
RossW
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:26 pm

I was on BA12 this morning and we landed at around 4:45am
 
BA777FO
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:31 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Never "Bovington", take note America!


:lol: it's so true. I've never heard a US pilot call it Bovingdon, it's always Bovington.

Sometimes if a route that's assigned a night jet movement (NJM) but ends up late and lands after 6am (like the Riyadh or Nairobi when that was pre-6am) then that NJM can be used for another aircraft in the same season.

My experience of the planned arrivals between 6am and 7am is that Shannon or Maastricht will coordinate with London and get us slowed down about 200nm out from the hold and that's when we're sequenced. It's somewhat first in first off the hold but the sequencing happens a long way out. Team arrivals help, but a 3rd runway is long overdue. I never hold with consistency anywhere in the world like we do with Heathrow. ATC is the best in the world, it'd be utter bedlam if they weren't so efficient.
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:55 pm

skipness1E wrote:
COSPN wrote:
What happened to “saving the planet “lift the curfew and operate round the clock to combat global warming ...

Sorry but if you know nothing about LHR PLEASE STOP POSTING garbage. No one in the industry wants this, it’s inhumane to operate 24/7 across such a large part of London which is why night flying is restricted. That last statement is on a par with “why don’t wide bodies operate out of LCY?” which graced a recent post.


I think what was meant is that since extinction is right around the corner and folks are willing to jump on airplanes and trains to stop said extinction, one would think that being awoken early would certainly be less of an issue if it delays the extinction by a bit.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:18 pm

nikeherc wrote:
This is not a new phenomenon. I remember arriving at LHR in 1970 before the curfew was lifted. Looking out the window was quite a sight. It looked like planes were everywhere and going in every direction. I have never experienced anything like it even at ATL or ORD.

Try circling in a glider in a thermal near a popular glider airport or contest turn point. Lots of craning of necks going on.
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Bealine251
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:59 pm

I've flew back to Heathrow from the Middle East by British Airways a few years ago. The flight paced it's self to get back for a 6am arrival but on landing after vacating the runway the engines where stopped and we where towed to a remote stand to keep the noise down. Apparently this is not unusual.
 
747megatop
Posts: 1726
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:08 pm

COSPN wrote:
What happened to “saving the planet “lift the curfew and operate round the clock to combat global warming ...

Yes & distribute ear plugs worth a few dollars each to those living under the flight path :-). I myself used to live directly under the flight path of SNA....got used to it after some time.
 
philabos
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:24 pm

Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:59 pm

How true. Years ago I lived in an apartment building on the approach to LGA. Many 727's in those days.
After awhile, you don't even notice anymore, although your guests will.
 
arcticcruiser
Posts: 386
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:28 am

So a whole thread about... nothing.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4564
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:58 am

Bealine251 wrote:
I've flew back to Heathrow from the Middle East by British Airways a few years ago. The flight paced it's self to get back for a 6am arrival but on landing after vacating the runway the engines where stopped and we where towed to a remote stand to keep the noise down. Apparently this is not unusual.

This used to happen on the Sierras and Whiskeys at T4 as there were houses close by. Not sure this happens at all now as these stands are only used for off stand parking between flights and not for active departures.
 
n729pa
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Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:49 pm

I travel a lot on early morning flights out to across and very as I'm parking the car in the car park, around 420-430 am there are flights coming in, and there's often a BA A380 landing and this thing whispers past you can hardly hear it over the traffic noise. Amazes me how quiet they are that time of day.
 
uta999
Posts: 757
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Nothing landing at LHR at the moment?

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:10 pm

When the winds permit, LHR should allow landings through the night on the 09s. Just the quiet ones, A350/380, 787, NEO’s and MAX.

It makes no sense that most other London airports can operate at night, yet LHR has to cram 1350 flights into just 17 hours. Spread the load and it gives some respite during the day for residents under the flight path.

They only allow mixed-mode landings for an hour at 6am too. It should be three hours, both morning and late evening. How can it be fair for all departures to fly over the same residents all evening.
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