So let's say if America colonized India during the 19th century and not the British, and exerted its cultural, political, and economic influence over there. How would India be different?

Basically, you would get the Philippians with darker people

Or you could end up with a PR situation but I doubt that considering the distance

I'd have to say in that fantasy world , and using historical references imho the US of the time may have made a much bigger mess of the sub continent than the various European powers of the day - India being not just a British but also Portuguese and French construct !

As for partition just don’t get me started - Ethnic cleansing always a Baaaaad idea !

As a Pakistani, I wonder if we would have gotten a separate state under America. Since I don't know the answer to that, despite all British misgivings, I am happy that Britain granted us a separate state from India and wouldn't have it any other way.

The Britannica article on the US and the Philippines, as suggested in an earlier post, is most likely the pattern we would have seen. The first legislative body (in SE Asia!) was established within the first ten years of occupation. The two American political parties differed only in how quickly independence would take place.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Philip ... -influence

The Europeans would still have beat us by a century, so impossible. In fact, the Brits and Portuguese were in India before the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth Plantation.

The US in the 19th century was all about expansion on the American Continent. India was not a goal of the time. This question is mute.

Especially when you think about how the America was "found" by Western Europe. They were looking for a quicker route to India.

casinterest wrote:

The US in the 19th century was all about expansion on the American Continent. India was not a goal of the time. This question is mute.

Especially when you think about how the America was "found" by Western Europe. They were looking for a quicker route to India.

Little did they realize that America is about as far as you can get from India. But I'd say Europe's little experiment with America worked out pretty well haha

sonicruiser wrote:

casinterest wrote:

The US in the 19th century was all about expansion on the American Continent. India was not a goal of the time. This question is mute.

Especially when you think about how the America was "found" by Western Europe. They were looking for a quicker route to India.

Little did they realize that America is about as far as you can get from India. But I'd say Europe's little experiment with America worked out pretty well haha

It is an interesting experiment right. It got out of hand and backfired on them, and then saved them from a force within. Will the same repeat itself in the future?

Interesting question. Look at what happened in Hawaii thanks to American military might. And, as someone mentioned up the thread, Philippines. I think it would be a "meh" situation. Look how quickly we left Philippines. We helped kick out the Spanish forces and, after that, why should we care? I think it would be the same. We helped kick the Japanese out of China but, after that, who cares? I think India would be smaller. There would be different nations. Maybe more civil wars.

caliboy93 wrote:

How would India be different?

Much wider waistlines.

And England would not have as many curry houses as the do now, we would still be eating fish and chips.

sonicruiser wrote:

As a Pakistani, I wonder if we would have gotten a separate state under America. Since I don't know the answer to that, despite all British misgivings, I am happy that Britain granted us a separate state from India and wouldn't have it any other way.

As a Pakistani living IN America, I could say the answer would be a resounding “no”.

While I agree having a separate state was overall the best decision, I wonder sometimes if India got the better deal out of Partition. ISIS is making moves in Balochistan, minority rights are barely existent (although that is improving under Imran Khan, while ironically most of India is going in our direction).

And ultimately, Kashmir is still a nuclear flashpoint.
We can’t even make a climate agreement with India even though climate change will destroy us both!

India’s only major loss in Partition is that they have the killers of Mahatma Gandhi ruling over them. There’s no way he [Narendra Modi] would’ve gotten elected if there were no Pakistan or Bangladesh. 600 million Muslims would be in India, therefore we’d be a well respected population: versus only 200 million Muslims, where only Hindu votes matter.

I agree the separate state was the better choice: for who it was the better choice is the question

very little would be different except India would be speaking american english not british. It would still be the same overpopulated slab of land is it is today. Maybe without Bangladesh and Pakistan though.

TryToFlySomeday wrote:

While I agree having a separate state was overall the best decision, I wonder sometimes if India got the better deal out of Partition. ISIS is making moves in Balochistan, minority rights are barely existent (although that is improving under Imran Khan, while ironically most of India is going in our direction).

At independence, India and Pakistan made diametrically opposite choices. India at independence was led by Western educated, secular, mostly left leaning politicians like Nehru, Ambedkar and Patel who got to work creating the institutional framework needed to support a constitutional democracy. This institutional framework is what kept Indian democracy alive for over 60 years. By murdering Mahatma Gandhi, the fascist RSS became a political pariah and was relegated to the sidelines.

Pakistan started out well. Unfortunately, your equivalent of Nehru - Liaquat Ali Khan - was assassinated almost immediately and the men who followed in his wake did not have the same strength of character needed to uphold democracy paving the way for military rule. Every West Point graduate military general who took over, from Ayub to Musharraf, felt the need to coopt the Radical crazies on your side instead of pushing them to the sidelines.

The RSS in India did not keep silent after murdering Gandhi. They worked quietly on the sidelines, ingratiating themselves with the establishment, getting their camp followers into the existing political parties as well as institutions like the judiciary. Our big mistake was we got complacent and allowed this to happen. It took 67 years for the secular, liberal edifice to fall enabling the fascist takeover of India.

India in 2014 became exactly what Jinnah had predicted in 1940 when he raised the demand for Pakistan.

TryToFlySomeday wrote:

And ultimately, Kashmir is still a nuclear flashpoint.
We can’t even make a climate agreement with India even though climate change will destroy us both!

Kashmir is a fixed match. Neither India nor Pakistan can make a move. They do not want to solve the problem. In Kashmir, Politicians on both sides have a convenient issue to polarize people on their side of the border and win rigged elections! Why solve a problem that keeps on giving?

Unfortunately, stuck in the middle are the 8 million Kashmiri people. For over a 100 days now, the Kashmir valley has been under a brutal military lockdown imposed by the fascist govt in Delhi. Who even cares about them?

The only solution as I see it, is for the international community to keep both India and Pakistan out and militarily enforce the 1948 UN resolution #47 by conducting a plebiscite to enable Kashmiris to determine their own future. But will Western countries be ready to impose sanctions on India and Pakistan and send troops to enforce the plebiscite?

The only Western politicians who have spoken for the Kashmiri people so far are Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn. Nobody else could be bothered! Our own liberal hack Justin Trudeau could not care less. He is more interested in posing in fancy dress with Dear Leader for cheap PR thrills!

TryToFlySomeday wrote:

sonicruiser wrote:

As a Pakistani, I wonder if we would have gotten a separate state under America. Since I don't know the answer to that, despite all British misgivings, I am happy that Britain granted us a separate state from India and wouldn't have it any other way.

As a Pakistani living IN America, I could say the answer would be a resounding “no”.

While I agree having a separate state was overall the best decision, I wonder sometimes if India got the better deal out of Partition. ISIS is making moves in Balochistan, minority rights are barely existent (although that is improving under Imran Khan, while ironically most of India is going in our direction).

And ultimately, Kashmir is still a nuclear flashpoint.
We can’t even make a climate agreement with India even though climate change will destroy us both!

India’s only major loss in Partition is that they have the killers of Mahatma Gandhi ruling over them. There’s no way he [Narendra Modi] would’ve gotten elected if there were no Pakistan or Bangladesh. 600 million Muslims would be in India, therefore we’d be a well respected population: versus only 200 million Muslims, where only Hindu votes matter.

I agree the separate state was the better choice: for who it was the better choice is the question

With all the different ethnicities in pre separation India, it really should have been split into more than 3 countries.

Redd wrote:

caliboy93 wrote:

How would India be different?

Much wider waistlines.

It appears India achieved that goal.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Redd wrote:

caliboy93 wrote:

How would India be different?

Much wider waistlines.

It appears India achieved that goal.

I didn't notice a lot of fat people when I was there in November 2018.

Kiwirob wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Redd wrote:

Much wider waistlines.

It appears India achieved that goal.

I didn't notice a lot of fat people when I was there in November 2018.

There are a lot more now compared to the past. Consumption of processed and fast food are two main reasons. I cringe when someone claims Cereal is a healthy breakfast than traditional Indian breakfast.

They would be playing baseball rather than cricket.

Would america have let millions to starve to death?

Would the killing of demonstrating people been remembered?

Kiwirob wrote:

TryToFlySomeday wrote:

sonicruiser wrote:

As a Pakistani, I wonder if we would have gotten a separate state under America. Since I don't know the answer to that, despite all British misgivings, I am happy that Britain granted us a separate state from India and wouldn't have it any other way.

As a Pakistani living IN America, I could say the answer would be a resounding “no”.

While I agree having a separate state was overall the best decision, I wonder sometimes if India got the better deal out of Partition. ISIS is making moves in Balochistan, minority rights are barely existent (although that is improving under Imran Khan, while ironically most of India is going in our direction).

And ultimately, Kashmir is still a nuclear flashpoint.
We can’t even make a climate agreement with India even though climate change will destroy us both!

India’s only major loss in Partition is that they have the killers of Mahatma Gandhi ruling over them. There’s no way he [Narendra Modi] would’ve gotten elected if there were no Pakistan or Bangladesh. 600 million Muslims would be in India, therefore we’d be a well respected population: versus only 200 million Muslims, where only Hindu votes matter.

I agree the separate state was the better choice: for who it was the better choice is the question

With all the different ethnicities in pre separation India, it really should have been split into more than 3 countries.

The whole purpose of having India as it is today is so the states are united, which comes in handy when there is a common threat to the subcontinent: and no I'm not talking about Pakistan, I'm talking about China.

Splitting up India into 52, or Pakistan into 4 would only make the Chinese gov's job to assert their dominance in Asia easier.

csturdiv wrote:

They would be playing baseball rather than cricket.

Talk about missed opportunities, LOLOL!!