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extender
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Posts Disappearing

Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:51 pm

Not sure if this is the correct way to do it, but I have had posts in threads disappear. Who can I inquire to about this? There has to be some record of this in the logs.

Thanks in advance.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:00 pm

extender wrote:
Not sure if this is the correct way to do it, but I have had posts in threads disappear. Who can I inquire to about this? There has to be some record of this in the logs.

Thanks in advance.

Your posts may have been deleted by a moderator. Users are not sent notifications of deletions. Most deletions are due to a referenced post deletion, meaning a user's post has been deleted, so the subsequent replies to that post are removed as well. In those cases, obviously the users replying aren't at any fault, but we have to remove the posts to completely remove the offending post. If you think your posts have been deleted, you can always email us at [email protected]. We generally get back to users fairly quickly.
 
extender
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:06 pm

Thanks for the quick reply.
 
extender
Topic Author
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:07 am

The logs have to reflect which moderator is deleting the posts, because it happened again, and it wasn't a Referenced Post Deleted type thing. Time to send the email...
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:20 pm

extender wrote:
The logs have to reflect which moderator is deleting the posts, because it happened again, and it wasn't a Referenced Post Deleted type thing. Time to send the email...

Yes, our logs show who removed the post, and it displays the reason given. You've been on this site for a long time, so you must know that this isn't a recent thing. This is how it's worked since we moved to the new site about three and a half years ago. You can always ask us about a deletion, and we'll always give you an answer, you just need to email us. We haven't had automated notifications since the old site.
 
extender
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:10 pm

Thanks.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:52 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
You can always ask us about a deletion, and we'll always give you an answer, you just need to email us.


Would need to actually know that it was deleted first.

That is part of the reason why I'm finding it harder and harder to bite my tongue here, which I mostly apologise for and no doubt why I just received a "board warning".

As a software developer myself, I can only think the newish owners of the site can't be bothered.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:33 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
As a software developer myself, I can only think the newish owners of the site can't be bothered.

You would be correct.
 
ParkFSI
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:10 pm

extender wrote:
Not sure if this is the correct way to do it, but I have had posts in threads disappear. Who can I inquire to about this? There has to be some record of this in the logs.

Thanks in advance.


I’m not going to bother looking up your post ( if it’s even possible ) but if you were debating the usual leftist crowd on this forum l doesn’t surprise me at all, hopefully someone will read this before it is censored !
Thread killer
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:20 am

ParkFSI wrote:
extender wrote:
Not sure if this is the correct way to do it, but I have had posts in threads disappear. Who can I inquire to about this? There has to be some record of this in the logs.

Thanks in advance.


I’m not going to bother looking up your post ( if it’s even possible ) but if you were debating the usual leftist crowd on this forum l doesn’t surprise me at all, hopefully someone will read this before it is censored !

We don't "censor" people as long as you stay on topic and follow the rules. Some people seem to find that difficult.
 
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keesje
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:31 am

I hope deletion of threads / posts is monitored by airliners.net, including who deletes and if there are trends.

Personal preferences of specific moderators shouldn't play a role. Let alone personal battles.

I feel some of the deletions are not related to forum rules and are disrespectful to the creators and all the a.net members responding on the topic.

Are the deletions logged? I think moderation changed.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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qf789
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:03 pm

keesje wrote:
I hope deletion of threads / posts is monitored by airliners.net, including who deletes and if there are trends.

Personal preferences of specific moderators shouldn't play a role. Let alone personal battles.

I feel some of the deletions are not related to forum rules and are disrespectful to the creators and all the a.net members responding on the topic.

Are the deletions logged? I think moderation changed.


Keesje, do we really need to have this conversation again? Obviously we do. The thread you started yesterday A339 vs 789, the first picture in it there was no source provided and as a result was removed for violating copyright rules. Now I did not want to remove the thread however you left me no choice. Now as a group, the moderators have told you that many times about this it is getting beyond a joke now, even a head moderator has told you as well. The solution is simple comply with the rules and the thread can be left to run its own course.
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keesje
Posts: 13827
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:28 pm

qf789 wrote:
keesje wrote:
I hope deletion of threads / posts is monitored by airliners.net, including who deletes and if there are trends.

Personal preferences of specific moderators shouldn't play a role. Let alone personal battles.

I feel some of the deletions are not related to forum rules and are disrespectful to the creators and all the a.net members responding on the topic.

Are the deletions logged? I think moderation changed.


Keesje, do we really need to have this conversation again? Obviously we do. The thread you started yesterday A339 vs 789, the first picture in it there was no source provided and as a result was removed for violating copyright rules. Now I did not want to remove the thread however you left me no choice. Now as a group, the moderators have told you that many times about this it is getting beyond a joke now, even a head moderator has told you as well. The solution is simple comply with the rules and the thread can be left to run its own course.


I created the picture myself. Do I have to copy right myself now? Dissapointing reason for removing another thread of me.
Threatening a little between the lines. I have a lot of respect for a.net moderation.

The thread was technical comparing A330-900 and 787-9 specification closing in on each other after the announced MTOW bump certification. Was it too factual? Can you please reactivate the thread or explain why not? Thank you.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:30 pm

qf789 wrote:
keesje wrote:
I hope deletion of threads / posts is monitored by airliners.net, including who deletes and if there are trends.

Personal preferences of specific moderators shouldn't play a role. Let alone personal battles.

I feel some of the deletions are not related to forum rules and are disrespectful to the creators and all the a.net members responding on the topic.

Are the deletions logged? I think moderation changed.


Keesje, do we really need to have this conversation again? Obviously we do. The thread you started yesterday A339 vs 789, the first picture in it there was no source provided and as a result was removed for violating copyright rules. Now I did not want to remove the thread however you left me no choice. Now as a group, the moderators have told you that many times about this it is getting beyond a joke now, even a head moderator has told you as well. The solution is simple comply with the rules and the thread can be left to run its own course.


Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it is common knowledge Keesje creates his own pictures--love the fly--and identifies those that aren't his. I guess he needs to write: "here's something I drew up.." I really enjoy his posts.
 
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keesje
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:49 pm

Let's move on, every one of us misses out now & then..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:04 am

keesje wrote:
I think moderation changed.

I am reading a.net since 20 years now and my feeling is as well that it has changed. This is not meant to be offensive but just a sober observation. Is it that the new owners request stricter moderation?

Previously, I never even thought about the chance that one of my posts would be deleted. Nowadays, I typically open a.net in the morning while asking myself „ok, let’s check if some of my posts have survived.“

Today, for example, just one of my posts made it through the night because I had quoted a poisonous comment that has been deleted. But that’s okay. It’s just that it isn’t as much fun as it used to be and I reduced my inputs.

That being said, a.net is still an amazing forum.

Best regards
N14AZ
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:58 pm

N14AZ wrote:
I am reading a.net since 20 years now and my feeling is as well that it has changed. This is not meant to be offensive but just a sober observation. Is it that the new owners request stricter moderation?

Previously, I never even thought about the chance that one of my posts would be deleted. Nowadays, I typically open a.net in the morning while asking myself „ok, let’s check if some of my posts have survived.“

Today, for example, just one of my posts made it through the night because I had quoted a poisonous comment that has been deleted. But that’s okay. It’s just that it isn’t as much fun as it used to be and I reduced my inputs.

That being said, a.net is still an amazing forum.

Best regards
N14AZ

No one tells us how we should moderate. I think our moderation has had to adapt to a fairly significant change in posting style from users. Not only is there a large percentage of users who signed up for free (made free since the site migration), but the way people post and the things they say is different than just a few years ago. All of that means that the user base has changed significantly in recent years, which has changed the discourse in discussions. People are now more politically vocal and more vitriolic than five years ago. More and more users come here to inject their politics than talk about airplanes. Since many signed up free, they didn't have the "buy in" that incentivised following the rules and participating civilly. Now, they sign up, they post how they want, they get banned, and they create another account. I wouldn't say there's been a conscious change in how we moderate, but I would agree that it has forced us to adapt to try to retain some of the decorum that previously existed here. We've had to adapt to changes outside of our control in what we believe to be in the best interests for everyone, not least of which the users who have been around for a long time. Most of us mods have been users here for a decade or more — we know how the site used to be, and our actions are reflective of that to try to keep that spirit alive.

Obviously deleting posts isn't personal. For what it's worth, I strongly dislike our practice of removing referenced posts. If it were up to me, we'd have discretion to remove the quoted reference (replaced with "removed by moderator" or something), and allow the reply to stand. It's something I'll keep pushing for, but for now, it's not something we're permitted to do.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:26 pm

If my post disappears, I won't sweat, this forum runs on old technology, things happen (or) I forgot to hit the submit button. Keeps my sanity.

Just express your opinion and move on.

I think the Indian Aviation forum thread to be a template to hire moderators. What % of posts violate forum rules should be a standard question. It also can be a valuable training tool.

A vast percentage of posts discuss politics, yet if someone doesn't like valid aviation related posts they get reported promptly.

You can have C-word and Honorable in the same sentence. Dear Leader is an offensive word. Name-calling is perfectly acceptable except when it targets selective people.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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SQ22
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:21 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
If my post disappears, I won't sweat, this forum runs on old technology, things happen (or) I forgot to hit the submit button. Keeps my sanity.

Just express your opinion and move on.

I think the Indian Aviation forum thread to be a template to hire moderators. What % of posts violate forum rules should be a standard question. It also can be a valuable training tool.

A vast percentage of posts discuss politics, yet if someone doesn't like valid aviation related posts they get reported promptly.

You can have C-word and Honorable in the same sentence. Dear Leader is an offensive word. Name-calling is perfectly acceptable except when it targets selective people.


I kindly ask you to use the reporting function, we have mentioned it before we cannot follow each and every thread around the clock.
 
StTim
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:21 pm

It does - to me - feel that we are allowing certain posters on the 737 MAX thread to continue ad nauseum to peddle the Non US Pilot blame game and that posts that debunk that opinion are removed.

To me there is an amount of protection being shown to Boeing that is not shown to threads critical of any other manufacturer.

I posted this in the thread and I expect it has been (correctly) removed. It was just my frustration at what is happening.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:52 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I am reading a.net since 20 years now and my feeling is as well that it has changed. This is not meant to be offensive but just a sober observation. Is it that the new owners request stricter moderation?

Previously, I never even thought about the chance that one of my posts would be deleted. Nowadays, I typically open a.net in the morning while asking myself „ok, let’s check if some of my posts have survived.“

Today, for example, just one of my posts made it through the night because I had quoted a poisonous comment that has been deleted. But that’s okay. It’s just that it isn’t as much fun as it used to be and I reduced my inputs.

That being said, a.net is still an amazing forum.

Best regards
N14AZ

No one tells us how we should moderate. I think our moderation has had to adapt to a fairly significant change in posting style from users. Not only is there a large percentage of users who signed up for free (made free since the site migration), but the way people post and the things they say is different than just a few years ago. All of that means that the user base has changed significantly in recent years, which has changed the discourse in discussions. People are now more politically vocal and more vitriolic than five years ago. More and more users come here to inject their politics than talk about airplanes. Since many signed up free, they didn't have the "buy in" that incentivised following the rules and participating civilly. Now, they sign up, they post how they want, they get banned, and they create another account. I wouldn't say there's been a conscious change in how we moderate, but I would agree that it has forced us to adapt to try to retain some of the decorum that previously existed here. We've had to adapt to changes outside of our control in what we believe to be in the best interests for everyone, not least of which the users who have been around for a long time. Most of us mods have been users here for a decade or more — we know how the site used to be, and our actions are reflective of that to try to keep that spirit alive.

Obviously deleting posts isn't personal. For what it's worth, I strongly dislike our practice of removing referenced posts. If it were up to me, we'd have discretion to remove the quoted reference (replaced with "removed by moderator" or something), and allow the reply to stand. It's something I'll keep pushing for, but for now, it's not something we're permitted to do.

Thank you for your long reply. It’s definitely good to understand your point of view as a moderator.

Best regards
N14AZ
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2796
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon May 11, 2020 7:28 am

N14AZ wrote:
keesje wrote:
I think moderation changed.

I am reading a.net since 20 years now and my feeling is as well that it has changed. This is not meant to be offensive but just a sober observation. Is it that the new owners request stricter moderation?

Previously, I never even thought about the chance that one of my posts would be deleted. Nowadays, I typically open a.net in the morning while asking myself „ok, let’s check if some of my posts have survived.“

Today, for example, just one of my posts made it through the night because I had quoted a poisonous comment that has been deleted. But that’s okay. It’s just that it isn’t as much fun as it used to be and I reduced my inputs.

That being said, a.net is still an amazing forum.

Best regards
N14AZ

FYI I'm finding the exact same thing has been happening slowly this year, but in the last month it's starting to become extremely noticeable. I believe certain moderators are overly sensitive and quick to delete especially if something conflicts with their personal views.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon May 11, 2020 1:53 pm

eta unknown wrote:
FYI I'm finding the exact same thing has been happening slowly this year, but in the last month it's starting to become extremely noticeable. I believe certain moderators are overly sensitive and quick to delete especially if something conflicts with their personal views.

I've been called a socialist and a Nazi, I've been called left wing and right wing, I've been called pro and anti Boeing, as well as pro and anti Airbus, I've been called pro and anti American, along with so many other things. In fact, most of us have. We don't get that because we moderate based on our personal views, so that's just silly. Our level of moderation also hasn't changed, so if you're slowly noticing anything, it's probably just that you're paying more attention to it than you were previously, or your engaging in threads that currently require closer moderation. That often happens with contentious topics, and maybe you don't regularly engage in contentions topics.

In any case, there's really no reason to take a personal swipe at us. We've all been users on this site for many years, and we all volunteer our time for the benefit of the community. That's despite the constant abuse we receive and the frustrations we deal with. Everyone expects us to perform our jobs perfectly, yet no one wants volunteer when we ask for more help. I've deleted countless posts that I've both agreed and disagreed with, but ultimately I can't delete anything unless I can justify it with the forum rules. My personal views don't enter the equation, and it's the same way for my colleagues.

If a post of yours is deleted, then just email us, and we'll be happy to explain. Believe me, we have begged — literally begged — for the developers to create automated notifications like the old site for over three years now. We aren't trying to hide anything from anyone, but we don't have the time or ability to effectively moderate and contact every single user manually.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon May 11, 2020 10:17 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
If a post of yours is deleted, then just email us, and we'll be happy to explain. Believe me, we have begged — literally begged — for the developers to create automated notifications like the old site for over three years now. We aren't trying to hide anything from anyone, but we don't have the time or ability to effectively moderate and contact every single user manually.

The problem is sometimes I will go back to a thread and not find my post, and I wonder if it was deleted or if I had simply posted in a similar thread that I can't find, so I don't always know if a post was deleted by the mods.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Mon May 11, 2020 11:20 pm

Moose135 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
If a post of yours is deleted, then just email us, and we'll be happy to explain. Believe me, we have begged — literally begged — for the developers to create automated notifications like the old site for over three years now. We aren't trying to hide anything from anyone, but we don't have the time or ability to effectively moderate and contact every single user manually.

The problem is sometimes I will go back to a thread and not find my post, and I wonder if it was deleted or if I had simply posted in a similar thread that I can't find, so I don't always know if a post was deleted by the mods.

I know. I wish we had a different way of doing it, but we're at the mercy of the developers too. If time were no factor, I would at least send out canned PMs to everyone when I deleted a post. But time is a factor, and at least half of those people would reply to yell at me, which would require even more time that I don't have. I hate to be cliché and say, "it is what it is", but it is.
 
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Moose135
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Tue May 12, 2020 12:06 am

I know it's not your fault, it just gets frustrating sometimes. I've been on this forum for a long time, and I hate that the current owners don't care enough to take care of it properly.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
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qf789
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Re: Posts Disappearing

Tue May 12, 2020 5:19 am

Moose135 wrote:
I know it's not your fault, it just gets frustrating sometimes. I've been on this forum for a long time, and I hate that the current owners don't care enough to take care of it properly.


We hear you, its frustrating for us too.
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